Long-Term Users group - w/d and recovery after longterm use

[[on...]]

Mozart you haven't PM'd me and even though you are going through hard times, I really, really, really believe that your posts show you are getting more stable and doing well.  There are still bumps in the road but I feel like your road isn't quite as bumpy.  I know that you are still hurting and you will.  But even as you describe hard times I believe it sounds like you are better than you were a week ago.  Keep it up.

 

Anyone who gets this far and Mozart, I need help.  I may doctor shop.  I've been cutting 0.185 K every month because I can get it in wafers.  Now I'm down to 1.3785 mg. per day, and the next cut would be a cut of 15%.  Every cut my doc makes (or we do together) kills me.  He doesn't get it that a 15% cut hurts even if you aren't taking massive amounts.

 

So, here I go.  To get this far I haven't worked since January, I can't get out of the house, and I'm really hurting.  I'm feeling really bad.  I'm really bad and it brings back memories of feeling really sick after making huge cuts myself and then checking into the hospital.  It's bad and I just want a break.

 

Overall I've reduced about 95% from where I started, and since 12/1/14 I've reduced about 50% since then.  I'm gonna crack.  My wife says I'm acting like I'm in real distress. My son asks why I don't laugh.

 

I know this isn't the accepted route - but I'm not gonna make it anymore like this.  I'm going to tell my doc that I haven't been working, I'm really in hell, and I'm gonna ask him to let me level out where I am and not make cuts for a while.  I feel like I've cut too fast all of this time and for the past few months I've been paying.  We also have to move in the next couple of months.  An entire family.

 

So . . . I don't want to whine and I'm sort of trying to convince myself this is the right thing to do.  I'm going to point out to my doc how far I've come and let him know that I am not functioning.  I'm gonna ask him to let me be where I am for a while.  I feel like my body just needs to catch up and have a few months where I don't feel sick.  I'm already on the 2+ year taper plan.  I need a break.

 

If my doc gives me a month without cutting me and he doesn't agree to let me hang here for a while I need to find a new doc.  This guy just doesn't get it.

 

I'm really scared.  I hope this goes well.  This doc knows my wife and I'm taking my wife with me.  I'm really scared to hear what he has to say.

 

[[MT...]]

Paul, you've already accomplished a lot. I hope things go well tomorrow. We'll be thinking of you, buddy.

 

Katie

[[Mo...]]

Paul...it IS the accepted route to hold as long as you need to. I have barely even begun my crossover with no taper yet and I am in Hell. Why? Again, maybe it's not due to benzos at all. That's a very scary thought because it means I really did snap on January 1st. I digress.

Paul...I keep telling my poor husband that if i have to endure this any longer I will have to take my life. It devastates him to hear tyis and I really feel this way. He and I have both had so much loss and abandonment in our lives it would be horrible to do that to him. So I know how bad this is. For me I feel this badly without cuts. For you, it only makes total sense that you feel this bad. There is a support group I found on here today about asvice from professionals like doctors and pharmacists that we WILL heal and this stiff is normal to go through. Yes, make smaller cuts and hold this one longer. Your doctor has to understand and comply. You pay them!

Now...tell me why I am in Hell without cuts yet!!!

Your friend...Marian

[[on...]]

Thank you both for the advice and support.  Mozart thank you for the comment about holding.  We'll see what the doc says.  It's late tonight.  Will write tomorrow.  Thanks again.

 

Paul

[[no...]]

Pretty, yes I am in the process of the crossover to Valium. Back in a bad wave again now.  What if this isn't even from benzos? If I had to try to live this way and it wasn't from benzos, I would never make it. That is my fear.

 

 

 

Hi M  here is a link to another River Wolf thread many of us have posted on, below is the first post River wrote but the whole thread will be a great help to a lot of us. I find it priceless 

 

Love Nova xxxx  :smitten:

  Topic: Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted  (Read 8463 times)  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=87594.0

 

 

River Wolf

 

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    Howling happy to be free. The Love is back...Yes!

       

 

Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted

Topic: Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted  (Read 8463 times)

 

    Quote

 

Benzo Lies

 

I was talking with a friend about the lies that benzos tell us and thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on the topic.

 

Here are some benzo lies that I previously posted on my blog and thought it would be good to start this thread off with.

 

Please add some of the lies that you used to believe and now know to be untrue.

 

This will be very valuable for those who are still under the spell of the lies that benzos tell us. My experience is that our thinking is fundamentally altered by benzo action during tolerance withdrawal and during tapering, and that we are not actually thinking – we are at the effect of chemical storms in our brains. And we think that these are our thoughts. And worse yet, we BELIEVE these thoughts. But what we are experiencing is chemical and electrical processes that occur during the body’s attempt to adjust these chemicals and processes on the fly.

 

 

Now that I am feeling better, it’s easy to see some of the lies the benzos tell us. They are plain to see in hindsight. But for those of you who are having troubles with taper symptoms, or pre or post-taper symptoms, I wanted to help you to see  some of the lies that the benzos have told me, and may be telling you too.  Hopefully, you will be able to use this to understand more about your experience and maybe you could use this post as a template for reality.

 

Benzo Lie # 1. There is no hope.  This one is nasty. Do not believe this lie. It can take you down fast. It is not true, even though it feels very true. For me, this hopelessness was a result of benzo created chemical imbalances coloring my thinking into a perceived end of time. I could not imagine time extending for more than 3 months into the future. There was no way I could think of any possible outcome at all – not even a negative one, and all of my imagined outcomes of less than 3 months were negative. If you cannot imagine a positive future for yourself, know you are under the trance of lie # 1.

 

Benzo Lie # 2. My Life is ruined.  Do not believe this lie. You are in a temporary state of withdrawal. It is an awful state, but it is temporary and you will move out of it and have a life that you can mold into what you had before or one that is better than before. When you can think clearly, you are able to fashion a life that is better than what happened to you when you were tranquilized and your life fell apart as a result of being drugged. When you are out of withdrawals and free from the effects of their symptoms, you will be in a better position to solve problems instead of having them take you down.

 

Benzo Lie # 3. These benzo effects will last forever.  I see this lie as being conditional.  The lie part is that if you are making decisions that will move yourself toward health and away from benzos, it will not last forever. There WILL be an end to the benzo-related troubles. As you get further away from benzos and their effects, the less the benzos will act on you.  If you make benzo related decisions that move yourself away from natural health and into benzo use, you may end up in a never ending loop of having side effects being confused as diseases, and having benzo symptoms being medicated with more benzos, and in turn, more and more drug and symptom interactions and more and more suffering.

 

Benzo Lie # 4. I will never be happy again  This lie broke my heart. I let this lie rob me of my dreams. I am living proof that you can totally believe this lie and live to prove it wrong. I never thought I could ever be happy ever again. I’m not only happy now, but happier than I was before I started on benzos. I feel like I have just vanquished a dragon, and there is a great deal of satisfaction in that. Now, I am happy. I am happy just because I exist and because life is available to me. There is such joy in coming back from the edge and being able to function again.

 

I felt like there was no way happiness could ever be attained by someone who is going through all of this suffering and torture and ineptitude, and now I’m happy.  I am the guy that was scared to death of my cat for 2 years. I was freaked out because the gardener was going to come on Wednesday and scare me with the noise of his equipment and today it’s Monday and I’m worried about it already. I couldn't drive for over a year. . . and on and on.

 

If you are feeling that your happiness is behind you, do not despair. You cannot absolutely know that your best days are behind you. The effects of benzo action will make you believe you cannot be happy. It is not true. After your body begins making the feel good chemicals and you are out of wd, your life can get wonderful again.

 

 

These are just a few of the benzo lies that have I have busted for myself. And there are many, many more.

 

Try this on - If it makes you sad, it's probably a benzo lie.

 

You CAN be happy again. It will feel great, and you’ll love it more than ever. 

 

 

Please post the benzo lies that you have busted so others can learn from your experience.

 

 

 

River 

[[no...]]

Another post from the same thread....

Love Nova xxxx  :smitten:

 

IGo2God

 

 

    Gender: Female

    Be gentle and kind to yourself 💗

        V

Re: Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted

 

 

 

Thank you River Wolf,

 

This is a list of lies Fliprain wrote for me during a time of depression

 

Big Fat Benzo Lies,

 

1. I'm different. I'll never heal fully.

2. I will grow old and die alone.

3. I'll never be able to support myself again.

4. Why is everyone else feeling good and doing more and I'm not?

5. I tapered too fast, too slow.

6. I was kindled, poly drugged...it's different for me.

7. These symptoms  can't be just benzos. I must have a horrible disease.

8. I'm ok right now, but down the road, I'm going to have an event that sets me back.

9. My CNS is fried and will never really recover.

10. I have wasted my life.

 

Molly

[[Mo...]]

Thanks nova...I actually believe those lies from Fliprain  :'(

I am having SUCH a hard time crossing over NOT EVEN WITH ANY TAPERING YET.Valium is so weak.if this c/o fails with V, I wonder if I can switch benzos midstream?  I am so worried. I am not strong enough to handle the fragile things in life at this time like my husband losing his job which we expect will happen today, or if my beloved 16 year old dog dies, etc. I would fall apart. What am I gonna do?

 

[[MT...]]

I get caught a lot on the I'm different I won't heal completely and I was kindled and polydrugged, I tapered too fast, and I've wasted my life. I get so convinced that my insomnia is so severe that my case is different. Lots of people have insomnia but very few get zero sleep for multiple nights per week for 5 months.

 

I look for people who've experienced any of things and made it.

 

Mozart, I don't think any of us feel strong. Courage rarely feels brave. I'm sorry you're facing the extra stressors with your husband's job and the fear of losing your dog.

[[88...]]

Hi MTfan,

I also wonder how many people have had problems with the drug(s) dr. cheney prescribes.

He's NOT doing his best if he doesn't know the perils of these drugs. I am not cutting him any slack.

Also, he doesn't accept insurance, so he takes PLENTY of money to get people addicted.

As you say, keep healing.

Iggy

[[88...]]

Hi wannafeelwell,

the exhaustion and memory loss I feel from w/d is different from CFS. Completely different.

I also see that these drugs didn't help the disease at all.

But I also see healing. Does all this make sense? The making sense part of my brain

lags in the healing department...

Iggy

[[88...]]

MTfan,

Sending sleep vibes your way...zzzzzzzz..

Iggy 

[[MT...]]

Thanks, Iggy. Someone posted this on a FB group I'm in.

 

I had something weird happen. I stopped taking magnesium on Monday in hopes doing so would help prevent the diarrhea I get the days after I don't sleep. I didn't put it together until today (when I had the trots anyway) but my anxiety shot through the ROOF starting Tuesday through yesterday. I restarted it today and it's back to my baseline wd there but not overwhelming.

 

[[sh...]]

Hi:

 

My name is Ken and I am new to this thread. MTfan knows me from the PM messaging system.  I am a long term survivor/victim of polypharmacy and most of the time over the years my cocktail has included a benzo mostly klonopin but I did have a stint with Temazepam.  I have been on seroquel and also zyprexa in the past .

 

My heart goes out to all of you Mozart, One Year, Prettydaisys, Nova and of course my good friend MTfan.  It helps me to know that there are good people out there who are suffering the horrendous effects of multiple exposures to psychotropics of which I feel the benzos are the most dangerous.  I realize that there are many damaged people who through now fault of their own have gone to doctors to help them and have found them lacking. 

 

I have been hospitalized many times over the years with the most recent admissions being 3 times in the past 6 months.  I have been told that the best thing to do is to go on cocktails of many drugs and to stay on them. However, due to intolerable effects I inevitably come off many of the drugs.  My most recent hospitalization resulted in the label of becoming bipolar and needing to be on lithium and two antipsychotics as well as being reintroduced to klonopin. 

 

I have terrible insomnia like Katie but ever since they reinstated the klonopin which was the worst mistake I could have made, I am very very sick physically.  The worst thing I suffer is terrible intractable burning muscle pain in my legs and back.  I take klonopin at night that gives me about 4 hours of semi conscious light sleep.  I go to bed in excruciating pain and I take the klonopin at about 9:00 PM. I also take seroquel and propanalol at the same time.  As I said I get a little bit of rest for about 4 hours and wake up with a little less pain but lately it is even there when I get up.  It progressively gets worse throughout the day. 

 

Before going into the hospital the last time about a month ago, I was going pretty much 24/7 without sleep day after day and that was what brought me to the emergency room the last time. I thought that was bad. However after coming out of the hospital the last time I have this new additional symptom of intractable burning muscle pain.  It feels as if my legs and back are on fire with fatigue almost like the kind of pain you would get from lactic acid buildup after exercise. It is debilitating. In addition I have akathisia upon awakening that won't let me even continue to rest in bed quietly.  I have to get up.

 

Of course I too suffer from a lot of the negative self talk like the rest of you do. I won't heal.  I am too far gone. I tapered too fast.  I have wasted my life. I am so much worse than everyone else, etc.  However, I know after reading the posts here that others are in just as bad a shape as I am and suffering rests with others too. 

 

I especially identify with Mozart who is contemplating suicide and I just have to say that YOU MUST LIVE.  I know that you are struggling and it seems impossible.  I was particularly touched by the fact that you feel paradoxical to the klonopin.  It makes me wonder the same thing about myself.  All I know is the pain is immense, but realize that you have spouses still.  Not all of you, but some of you do.  I have long ago lost my wife and children and face my situation alone.  Be thankful that you still have someone in your life.

 

I also was amazed that benzogirl has been on such high doses of klonopin and ativan.  I can't imagine what that must be like to come off.

 

Part of my problem is that I don't have a doctor that gets it (who really does?) and I risk losing her support because she simply won't help me taper off things like klonopin by switching to valium.  She is ignorant and won't even talk to me about it so I wonder how I can find a good MD that will help me with this.  I am sure that most of you have been through the ringer with doctors wanting to medicalize all our problems and get us stuck on more and more many times toxic medications. I don't know what it is but like many of you I think I am on my own as far as choosing what to take and what not to take. 

 

Mozart, you are in a particularly difficult situation of not being able to taper or being able to stabilize on what you are currently doing.  Your choices are excruciating to make and I can only imagine.  I am in a similar situation of being highly symptomatic (probably tolerance withdrawal) before I even start to slowly come off the klonopin.  I made a terrible mistake in allowing myself to be put back on it all fueled by the desperate desire to get some sleep.  Well now sleep is not my only issue.  Now I have intractable pain to deal with as a result of my choice.  It is so hard to know what to do and who to trust in all of this. 

 

I am inspired by Prettydaisys who says she is finally getting some sleep a few days a week.  What I wouldn't give for that.  I have been totally sleepless for a long time in the past and my sleep still is not good but that is amazing.  I have not been able to fall asleep naturally without taking a sledgehammer medication to knock me out for so long.  It makes it so hard because how does one restore this mechanism when it has been severely damaged by benzos and other drugs. 

 

I know this is long and I would like to communicate with this thread to continue to see how others are doing and how they are attacking their dilemmas.  I have a scale and am attempting to dry cut my klonopin dose.  I withdrew from benzos (klonopin and temazepam) about 6-8 months ago so obviously I am kindled which makes it even harder now.  The only thing that I can hope for is to learn my lessons and not make the mistakes either I or others have made.  God bless you all.

 

Ken

[[Mo...]]

Dearest Ken,

I completely understand.  I was writing you a long reply on my Kindle and it froze.  Ugh...now I have to try to remember what I'd said.  I have been hospitalized at least 12 times in my life since age 13.  I have a spouse, but he can't help, doesn't know how and is on pain pills himself and his own suffering.  I regret never having had a baby in my life.  I have a dog named Mozart who is 16, whom I love deeply and I am too fragile to get through when he dies.  I am very fragile right now.  Always full of adrenaline.  I have been in therapy since dinosaurs, only to get worse all my life.  Been on benzos forever.  i have PTSD also.  My family is all deceased, they died in very tragic deaths.  All but one sister who lives 3K miles away, who can't handle my suffering.  She makes empty promises to help me, then completely pulls away. That is awful.  So, I'm alone too, Ken. All I do is waste my life in bed.  The world doesn't even know I exist, it's tragic.  It's no different than being dead, really it isn't.  I was in a TRAUMA program (I had to travel far to go there) last September.  I had c/t three years of oxycodone in August....I was inpatient there for 3 weeks.  The shrinks there put me in worlds of danger.  I told them I wanted to begin a taper off of benzos and try Valium.  The one shrink was taking me off of 39 years of benzos by tapering me in FOUR days!!!  I knew better.  I switched to another awful shrink.  I had a UTI while there, untreated, went into delirium.  Took me 3 full months to even get it resolved (the UTI).  I came home, saw my shrink, he told me to c/t my xanax (I'm used to taking more than one benzo at a time with benadryl..cocktails of pill too).  I c/t the Xanax because he said I had Klonopin on board to cover it.  I went to ER in December due to suicidal depression, but two days before I had reinstated a couple of .25 Xanax a day and it helped me.  Anyway, in the hospital last December, they gave me Xanax, I stuck with my .5 Klonopin 3x a day.  The eccentric young shrink I had there told me to try things like AYAWASKA, told me about LSD studies, etc.  Scared the shit out of me.  I was offered ECT, but with my head injury, coma history opted not to do it.  He pretty much told me he couldn't help me (I was too afraid to try too many drugs he offered).  I was there for 20 days.  I got out of there Dec. 31 and just snapped.  I stay in bed all the time.  The world doesn't know I'm here, same as death.

I don't blame you for reinstating your Klonopin via the hospital.  You just wanted relief.  Don't kick yourself.  I finally opted to do the Valium crossover, Ashton.  I'm in stage 3.  No cuts of anything yet and I feel in Hell.  I don't know what happened to me when I snapped and I'm not sure it's all because of benzos, but I don't know.  They try to ply you with meds at the hospital and get you out fast as they can.  That's why no matter how suicidal I feel, I won't go back.  I wish so much I could go to a long term place that knows how to help with benzos, but they won't take my insurance at places like betty Ford and I don't have 30K a month.

It's hard to find anyone to help us well enough with this.  I had a shrink who knew how to get people off of benzos, but I didn't care for her, gave her up (mistakenly) and they won't allow me to see her again.  So, I'm stuck with the older shrink in his 70's whom I have had for 4 years, who I feel HAS put me in danger at times.  He will do Ashton and Rx for that.  But Valium's weak and I feel pretty agitated.  I am scared of everything, so I have to stick with SOMETHING though. 

So, I take halves of Benadryl all day with a bit of Propanolol just to keep myself knocked out if I can.  I am missing out on pretty, sunny days, which as recently as last year, I longed for those after Winter.  Now I only want darkness and bed...all the time.  It's absurd and I ruminate constantly.

This pain you have...is it diffuse like Fibromyalgia?  They say movement helps that.  I know it does, but I don't even take a walk anymore.  No movement.

Are you in touch with your kids?  I regret never having had a baby.  I have a slew of regrets in my life.  I am living a death.  Truly.

I know how hard it is to go it alone, but we are truly all alone, Ken.  We really are.  I struggle to find meaning.

Please keep talking to me, you can post of PM me, so we can get through this together. 

Keep posting on here too.

I hope we both get out of this Hell somehow.

All my love and hope is with you.

 

Mozart

[[sh...]]

Hi Mozart:

 

Thank you for the reply.  I know what hell is believe me.  The more doctors I have been to the more drugs I have take and it is worse in some ways if you can imagine than being on benzos.  I know that you feel like death.  The pain I have is worse than anything a human should have to endure. Like you I don't know as to whether this is do to benzo withdrawal or not, but I haven't even really begun a taper yet and I am kind of stuck like you are. All I know is the pain is intense and gets worse throughout the day.  I didn't have it this bad before I went into the hospital and I don't know for sure that it is due to the klonopin.  Be thankful you can even stay in bed as bad as you feel.  Another little side effect of my condition is as soon as the klonopin wears off in the morning, I can't even stay in bed.  I have what may be termed akathisia a restlessness that won't even let me stay in bed to rest. Hellish and dangerous. 

 

I know what it is like to not know really what to do.  All we can do is try things and see if anything works and if something doesn't work, then to stop it.  It is a daily hellish struggle.  I am on 1 mg klonopin which doesn't sound like much but I am still in what I believe to be kindling and tolerance due to the fact that I have been on klonopin off and on so many times in the past. 

 

I hear so many people who think we are crazy because they can tolerate the drug without much problem.  More power to them.  I was like that once.  I always tried to be careful with benzos.  Never took more than prescribed and I still got trapped.  God bless you and I pray that you will make a sound decision in your recovery.  It is good at least that you have your husband and a doctor who will be willing to work with you on Ashton.  Mine won't.  Take care.

 

Ken

[[MT...]]

Ken and Mozart, there are a lot of us who have had to do the tapering on our own without support from a doctor. The water titration method, from my understanding, doesn't require a doctor to help--only prescribe the same dose. I've reached a point where I tell my docs the minimum and see them as little as possible. It's scary to do it without that support but the help on BB is more knowledgable and effective. People do get their lives back in time. You will too.

[[pr...]]

I am inspired by Prettydaisys who says she is finally getting some sleep a few days a week.  What I wouldn't give for that.  I have been totally sleepless for a long time in the past and my sleep still is not good but that is amazing.  I have not been able to fall asleep naturally without taking a sledgehammer medication to knock me out for so long.  It makes it so hard because how does one restore this mechanism when it has been severely damaged by benzos and other drugs.

 

 

hi ken,

 

nice to meet you and thank you for sharing part of your story. i am so sorry you are suffering too. about the sleep, it is finally returning after 32 months. i think i have slept through the night for about 12 days in a row now. took a long time though and i am still with horrible head symptoms. honestly, if the head symptoms would just subside i would feel almost normal but they are so ever present and all i can keep doing is telling myself that it's still all the withdrawal, i am still in process of healing and to try to not obsess about  it -- but it's very difficult. i await the day i am released from withdrawal.

 

hope you can taper from the current dose's and meds you are on and taper slowly as i wish i had done that myself but i couldn't.

 

pretty

[[Mo...]]

Ken, I hear you.  Did you take the Ashton schedule in?  Did they deny you help with that?  I hope you can do it.  I don't know what's best and I'm doing it.  But I just came back from my therapist, driving there was a nightmare on this beautiful, bright and sunny perfect day, that I can't enjoy because I only want darkness (I used to look forward to these days even last year...couldn't wait for them)....he said I HAVE to get out of bed and not stay in it all day.  He said I won't heal if I don't.  I know that's true, but I can't find a reason to go on, get out of bed, there is nothing I WANT to do.  But I know it's killing me to ruminate in bed.  I have to meet my diabetes doc tonight as a friend.  I have to go.  I am scared whitless.

Ken, get a Gemini .001 gram scale on Amazone (I did) and ask for a moderator to help you do the math for your cuts if you can't get on Valium.  Try the Valium first if you can get it.  it's easier and hopefully smoother.  I still get mega sx without any drops yet.  Hell, it's hell.

I hope this Hell will end someday.

I wonder often if I should succumb and go back on Xanax while I do the c/o...that would be bad, wouldn't it everyone?

I already knock myself out with halves of Benadryl throughout the day with the benzos.

What are we to do?

[[sh...]]

Hi Mozart:

 

It is interesting to hear that benadryl knocks you out.  It doesn't do anything for me. I heard of one guy who takes 75 mg at night. At least it is not a benzo and if it works for sleep, I guess that is something. I am not advocating taking really high doses. I have also heard that some people it revs them up and makes their symptoms worse.

 

My doctor is unwilling to look at Ashton and will not prescribe valium.  I guess she doesn't trust me.  I tapered 10% klonopin two weeks ago and I am going to attempt to taper an additional 5% tonight and hold that for a couple of weeks.  The way things are going it is going to be hell probably but I will have to try it and see.  It is so subtle how I agreed to reinstate the klonopin and I know now that it was the worst thing I could have done.  I have allowed doctors to have too much information and I have to be aware when I go in to reveal as little information as possible so they don't drop me and cold turkey me off the meds I am still on.

 

From my experience of going back on klonopin going back on Xanax would probably not be a good thing but that is up to you.  I can't make that decision for you.  Xanax is highly addictive and there is no way of telling what might happen if you did that.  Just be thankful that most of your hell is psychological symptoms (am I right?).  You can't believe how terrible the muscle burning and pain from the tolerance is that I feel.  I had insomnia before but like I have said I now have agonizing physical pain to endure as well. 

 

I am in the position that my primary care nurse is with the same clinic as my psychiatric nurse so it is going to be hard to get my medical issues addressed given my psychiatric label. I don't know what tests to get done or if I should get a neurological consult done either.  I am sure I would get a deer-in-the headlights look from any doctor in the area if I said any of this was due to benzo withdrawal.

 

I asked my nurse who prescribes my meds when I withdrew from the benzos before 6 months ago if any of the symptoms I was having could still be due to benzo withdrawal and she said emphatically no so that was a dead end.  If she would have agreed that it were possible, it might have saved my last hospitalization.  I have no support.  I can't go to the ER no matter how bad things might be.  We know where that will end up. So I am stuck to just sit here and suck on it. Not many options.  I appreciate you Prettydaisys, Mozart, and my old friend MTfan all so much.  I will see how tonight goes.  I am in hell already and I guess I have to be prepared for at least the possibility of being in worse hell tomorrow.  Thank you all and God bless you.

 

Ken

[[Mo...]]

Ken, I get it. No one believes it. I don't even believe it. I think I simply snapped. I, too, will avoid the ER and psych ward again at all costs. I snapped when I left. Ken, I would rather die, literally, then to go back, so I understand. No, my symptoms are extremely physical not just mental, just not the pain part. I was hooked on oxycodone for 3 years, I do know pain. Read what Stevie Nicks, the singer from Flertwood Mac, says about her bout with Klonopin...look it up. She had severe pain. These doctors are assholes. Your nurses are very closed minded. Try telling them again if you can. I wish I could take Xanax again. It, in combo with another benzo, would help. I would think living the rest of my life on benzos since I have already been on them for 39 years, would be better than this. But part of me really wants this to end and to try to learn, even at my age, to deal with this horrible PTSD without a pill. I only reached for a benzo since age 16. To be honest, I think in order to travel or whatever, I will need emergency Xanax the rest of my life. Ken, I am in such Hell, albeit a bit different than yours,  I can't take it. AND I haven't lowered doses yet. I am so scared. And I am so sorry for your suffering also.

I wish I could go to a long-term facility to get benzo help. No such luck. I was cutting 1/8 of my morning Klonopin right before the Valium c/o. I was already in Hell so I had to make cuts while in Hell...as you will. My doc offered me Gabapentin for anxiety. What do you and all of you think of using that? I hope I do not end up a statistic. I would rather feel better than for that to happen, but I can't take much more of this. Sound and light bother me a lot. Does anyone know of some meditations to help this terror state?

[[sh...]]

Hi Mozart:

 

I tried the 5% reduction in klonopin last night and I didn't hardly sleep at all.  I pretty much knew that would happen.  As for my physical symptoms, again I feel a little less pain this morning as I usually do when I dose on the klonopin. I am sure rip roaring pain will proceed to increase throughout the day. 

 

I know what you mean about becoming a statistic.  I feel the same way waking up with suicidal thoughts every morning.  I think about it all the time even during the day yesterday.  I know what it is like, but something tells me at least for now to not do it.  I had a really hard time going to sleep last night and I don't really think that I did because my girlfriend came into the room at some point and I saw her so I must not have been asleep.

 

Prettydaisys you mentioned that it was about 3 years before you started to sleep again on your own.  What was it like before that?  Did you have endless insomnia or were you able to sleep some before your better sleep came back?  It just seems that something is permanently broken and that my sleep will never return.  I look back at all the long term drugging that I have gone through and can't believe that I don't have some permanent damage.

 

I also know what it is like to not want to leave the house.  I just want to stay in and lie in bed but because I have akathisia even laying down is not possible so I force myself to get up and either go somewhere to get something to eat or I go to the library and spend time on benzobuddies.  I don't know what else to do.  My motivation is totally gone and I feel so bad that even getting dressed, shaving or taking a shower is all but impossible.  Hard to think that any of this will end. 

 

I also wish I could go to a longer term facility for treatment but my insurance isn't good and I won't get the coverage that I need.  I got a call from my insurance company a couple of days ago from a nurse who wanted to do some general survey questions about my health but was unable to talk to her because I was in the library, a public place.  I don't know what good it will do to talk to them but she never called me back so I don't know what the conversation will be like.

 

I wish I could be more hopeful but it just seems that this will never get better.  I am my own worst enemy because I usually don't have the patience to just weather the storm and stick with my symptoms as they are and work through them.  I just can't seem to wait of find any kind of healing happening so I end up in the hospital and inevitably worse off due to their "treatment".  It makes one feel so alone when there is no one not even anyone in the medical community that we can talk to. 

 

I hope you make good decisions regarding the choices that you have to make lying before you.  It isn't easy but at least you have a doctor that is willing to try to do valium for you.  He at least acknowledges your wishes to be off the drug even though he may feel that you will be worse off for it.  Take care Prettydaisys, Mozart, and MTfan.  I know I have no options but to suffer and take the pain right now.  I hope I can make it.

 

Ken

[[Mo...]]

Hi Ken and everyone. Showering IS  impossible and I am right there in torture with you.., and so alone in this, yes, regarding medical help. I ended up in utter torture all afternoon and evening. I actually had to meet a friend (he is my endocrinologist so at least I was with a doctor! Lol) because he wanted to go to services at the Temple with me. I am not religious but the Rabbi is retiring soon and he is so beloved. So, through my torture I endured over 3 hours there. It was pure torture. I was a shaking, terrified mess. The singing, sounds and light were so hard to bear. Not to mention how completely dissociative I am all the time...things appear unreal and I am detached, depersonalization. That is the main reason I started TAKING benzos 39 years ago. I saw my therapist yesterday too...another outing...and he told me I HAVE to get out of bed more or I won't detox or heal as quickly. That is tough because the bed is my only "safe" place and that's why I stay in it.  I remember thinking that Valium is starting to give me hints of benzo rage like I have had with Serax and Dalmane in my very long benzo history. I envy people so much who are short-term users and who are on small amounts. Finally, when I got home it was time for my 10 mg. of Valium as per stage 3 of Ashton. It helped calm me. I keep taking halves of Benadryl three times a day to calm me between my interdose withdrawals, which don't resolve even with my afternoon dose of medication.  I wonder if this is harmful every day. It is considered a "dirty" drug and my mouth stays very dry. I get so bad with all day waves, I have to scream...literally. I feel tortured. I still am not sure this is even FROM benzos or not. I have tolerance w/d but it only started at 38 years on them, before I c/t xanax, and when I left the psych ward last day of December. .I just snapped when I left. . I c/t from oxycodone after 3 years on it, back in August and I c/t from Xanax last October/November until they reinstated it in the hospital in December.  Then I c/t it again third week of January. I had used it for years but my pdoc thought it was ok as I still had Klonopin on board. Makes no sense.

I am so glad you are all here with me. I hope we all have many windows today. i everyone and Hi Ken. Ken, showering IS near impossible as is enduring all of this. I am right there with you.

 

[[pr...]]

Prettydaisys you mentioned that it was about 3 years before you started to sleep again on your own.  What was it like before that?  Did you have endless insomnia or were you able to sleep some before your better sleep came back?  It just seems that something is permanently broken and that my sleep will never return.  I look back at all the long term drugging that I have gone through and can't believe that I don't have some permanent damage.

 

it was really horrible and i don't know how i survived it along with all the other symptoms. i also thought that i "forgot" how to fall asleep and i would scream sometimes in such frustration. i did use 1/2 benadryl at times until i started that melatonin that i left you a link in your PM. i think that melatonin has really helped me. i am very glad that some semblance of sleep as returned although i was up all night last night -- so it's in cycles still. at least 2 nights out of the week i will be up all night, but it's okay now that i know the other nights i am sleeping pretty well.

[[Mo...]]

I am so, so hurt and sad. I have only one sister left who lives clear across the country. I left family many years ago to come out West. My mother, father and a sister all died years ago in terribly tragic deaths. This sister, who is 12 years my elder, made all these promises of getting me help and was loving towards me. She had been vicious to me for years. She and her husband flew here to see me last month. She couldn't handle seeing me suffer so badly. She couldn't wait to get away from me every day they were here to go back to her hotel. Now I haven't gotten as much as a phone call. She has abadoned me and has done this to me over and over throughout the years.I have no family to call or visit or to come over. It hurts so deeply to be so alone. She gets to enjoy a grown son with his wife and babies, twin grown nieces, whom she took in as her daughters when their mother, our stepsister died (while throwing me away) one of whom has babies and named her the grandmother. She is retired and has plenty of money, so she could easily visit me and get me some help.I have my husband who is getting fired from a crap job, and his son, whom I have raised for 13 years, who is now grown, lives with us. I do have them. But I have no one else. I miss my parents and sister terribly. My other sister and I were best friends.  Her husband pushed her out of a window from their apartment in NY. I can't fathom it to this day. She was so beautiful. My mother died in a freak car accident.  I was in the car with her. I was 11 years old. She was my world. I sustained a head injury and was in a 6 week coma, but I remember the accident. My mother and sister were both only 46 when they died. Both beautiful, vibrant women. Growing up without her was and still is impossible. I never had my own baby.I am terribly lonely on this Sunday. My phone doesn't ring and there is no family. My husband lost his mother suddenly two months ago. We both have no one.I am grateful to have all of you and wish we could all be together in person to help and to be there for each other. I am so sad today.I have begun stage 4 of schedule 5 in Ashton manual. The sooner I am all the way on Valium, the better. Only a couple more weeks until that. Then the dosage lowering begins.Scared of these waves which come in the form of an anxiety and adrenaline and shaking as I have never felt before. Even with my PTSD.  But, I do have the depersonalization, feelings of nothing being real and feeling detached and seperate coming back daily. That was the original reason for having been put on benzos at age 16. The benzos grounded me and took it all away back then. They "mothered" me.Then they stopped working, but only MANY years later. So, I will have to try to learn to live without them. I feel I will always have to have emergency Xanax with me the rest of my life.Thank you all for listening and for being here. I am searching for a reason to live...to go on...to find meaning in my suffering. It has been a life of suffering since age 11. I have a lot of musical talent all of my life. That was my career but I have been unable to play or perform...bedridden.  I had a comedy career for years too. I am very smart and funny, but that's been gone because the world doesn't see me in my isolation.I wish you all joy and peace today and every day.Love, M

[[Mo...]]

Hello all,

 

Thank you for your words. About my sister's rejection,  There is too long a history of abandonmwnt, disgust on her part, being let down and viciouness. I have tried to forgive numerous times over the years,  but I don't want to. I will have to learn to live with zero family, as the others are all dead. It hurts and is very lonely.

 

I want to ask you all a question, my mentors....please do reply. I saw my pdoc yesterday and he has no qualms about prescribing Valium for my k to v c/o. I just want to make sure, given that I have a head injury and coma history, that I am not in seizure territory. I do not feel like I would have one, just checking. I c/t years of Xanax on January 22,  as per my pdoc...mistake. that is when Hell got worse and from which I have never gotten out (of Hell).

Ashton says you can do the c/o phase from a few days to a week at each stage. Once you are c/o then each drop of v dose is 1 to 2 weeks. I am not stable, never will be during taper and must do it whilst in hell. In quite a fragile, non-resilient place. Shaking, trembly mess of a person who doesn't want to be near people, house and bed bound, light and sound sensitive.

 

I have been a performer all my life, thrived on being with people...this is new for me. Life without benzos after 39 years on them? I can't imagine it. But, after 38 years, they, especially K, turned on me, although not all of them.

 

Part of me wonders why I am doing this and feels I should live out my life on benzos instead of being in such misery. Is it worth it? Time will tell.

 

I think I am safe from seizures, just want your take on that. Thanks all.