Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[al...]]

IRT Agoura Success' posting:

 

WARNING: A Google search indicates that California poppy can affect GABA receptors.

[[Na...]]

Agoura -

 

It sounds like you're doing very well and getting near the end of your taper. I think the supplements you are taking sound reasonable, particularly the lithium orotate. I wish I had taken that during my taper and for some time afterward. This could really give you an advantage in preventing the damage that is possible from the excitotoxicity that getting off these drugs can cause.

 

The only thing I'll say for other people getting off z-drugs is that if you are getting interdose withdrawal before you start your taper I would advise you to convert to something long acting as per Ashton. The interdose withdrawal will only get worse as you taper down and I believe might cause more issues long term.

 

I took these awful drugs for almost two decades. I was having terrible interdose withdrawal every single day for several years. Every day around 3-4 pm I'd start shaking, my anxiety would skyrocket, I'd get weak, start sweating, etc. I didn't understand that this was the effect of these very short lived drugs washing out of my system every afternoon. That's one of the worst things about these z-drugs - they are so short acting (half life around 2-4 hours depending on which one you're talking about) that interdose withdrawal tends to be an issue. I should have crossed over the valium or maybe librium.

 

But, you haven't mentioned interdose withdrawal, you've made it so far, so I would just keep doing what you're doing.

 

The sleep may take a while to fully recover. But it will eventually.

 

You've done very well and should be proud of what you've accomplished. This isn't easy. It takes a willpower not everyone possesses.

 

 

[[Na...]]

IRT Agoura Success' posting:

 

WARNING: A Google search indicates that California poppy can affect GABA receptors.

 

California Poppy does work on gaba receptors. I believe it is a direct agonist of the receptor vs. z-drugs and benzos which are "Positive Allosteric Modulators" (PAMs) of the gaba receptor.

 

GABA agonists basically activate the receptor in the same manner as GABA itself. PAMs on the other hand modify the way the receptor itself works. It makes the chlorine channel easier to open and stay open longer in the presence of GABA.

 

I think (but can not prove to you) that PAMs are a bigger danger than agonists. It would be better to avoid both, but if occasionally using an agonist like California Poppy makes it possible for you to taper and quit a z-drug or benzo then that's better than staying on the drug.  And these natural substances tend to have a much weaker action than pharmaceuticals. But, I agree it would be better to be moderate with their use and to tend to avoid them if possible.

[[al...]]

Nathan,

Thanks for filling in the blanks on this.

[[Ag...]]

Thanks for the support and advice everyone!

 

I will stay away from California Poppy for the time being. Thanks Aloha and Nathan!

 

As for interdose withdrawal, I have never really had (not yet at least and hopefully not ever, knock on wood) those extreme surges Nathan describes he faced everyday about 3-4pm. I have felt generally very crappy almost all the time for over a year now but not many super extreme surges at predictable times. 

 

I hope to make another cut, then go another week or 10 days or so and then jump.

 

I'll post again with an update (don't exactly know when it will be but sometime in the future...)

 

Thanks again to everyone!   

[[La...]]

Hello Team Z!

Agoura I want to say I’m so proud of you for getting this far. I agree with all the others that you’re doing well and also to avoid poppy. I’d say IMO that you’re at a jumping point. When you’re ready just go ahead and walk off. It’s not giving you sleep anyway at that low of a crumb. I think it’s perhaps turned paradoxical on you. That happened to me when I got down past 4mg of Zolpidem ( ambien). I’m cheering you on to jump and you’ll feel much better with a bit of time. Honestly some of those supplements might be causing you some problems….perhaps certain ones taken too close together or simply your body doesn’t tolerate it well. My vote is to keep only the one you believe is giving you a little sleep. I agree with the others that it’s best to just accept that you just won’t sleep well for a bit. You will recover in time and so will your sleep. Also I’d like to add that 4-5 hours of sleep isn’t all that bad. I’ve heard of others wishing they had 1-2 hours. Best wishes to you on your upcoming jump.

[[...]]

JB you’re very welcome. 🤗

I bet your babies are such cutie pies. I’m also a mother of 3 and a grandmother of 3. Going through this with kids is really tough. The smaller the kids are the tougher IMO. Please don’t feel bad about the limitations you have. All you can do is your best and you are doing that. So I applaud you.

To answer your questions….milestone waves occur around certain timeframes as people recover. They can be at 6 months, 9 months, 12 months, 16-18 months, around 2 years and so on until a person is completely healed. Around here we call it getting “slammed”. It feels like the person is getting worse and it’s common to also experience old symptoms cycling back around that has been gone for awhile. Or an increase in intensity of symptoms and waves that are already present OR a combination of both. These milestone waves can be anywhere around the above months…for example, someone might get the 12 month wave at 11 months or up to the 14 month. Many BBs become worried when they get slammed that the healing they’ve had is gone but that’s not the case. You might see threads on here entitled “ worse before better”. This is common in this non-linear recovery. It’s certainly a two steps forward and one step back kind of thing. It sucks, right? Roller coaster is the best description IMO. I keep in mind that all roller coasters end. Thank God!

I have heard of all the symptoms that you mentioned. They’re all common whether it’s a zdrug, benzo, AD or other medications that act on gaba receptors. The good news is that they will fade away with time. All we can do is just keeping coping with them using what works so far. I’ve had the tight breathing heavy chest symptom briefly off and on. Although mine was mild, it was very alarming. It also raised my anxiety because it makes you scared you won’t breathe. All I did was used controlled breathing, distracted myself to stay calm. The brain will take what it needs when it needs it. Even an injured brain like ours will do that. I had to do a reality check to fight my fears. I ask myself a simple question….am I dead/ did I die? Nope, I’m still here. It calmed me to do those affirmations. I hope they help you too. I’ve also had the feeling faint symptom. I deal with it the same way as I do all my symptoms.

Some good go-to affirmations:

I’m sick right now but I’m healing. So it’s ok.

My brain is hard at work fixing itself. That’s why I feel rough right now. It’s temporary.

I’m doing the best that I can. That’s IS good enough.

Let’s see what I can push through today.

Soon I will get a nice window.

I’m stronger than I realized. I’m surviving this!

Ok symptoms…I feel you. Feeling is healing.

With time I will recover completely and it will manifest that I’m alright.

I won’t always feel this way. These are just symptoms.

 

:smitten:

 

LadyDen,

Thank you so much for all your comforting words. They mean a lot to me🙏

Yes, my children means everything to me. They are 12, 15, and 18.

It makes me so sad that I am not able to be the father for them that I want to be. But I tell my self that I do everything I can and I have always been there for them and given them endless love and care.

I just had a weekend with them, where my brain was burning so badly, that I barely could talk to them for 5 min before I had to lie down in a dark room. It feels like my brain is full of acid and it explode just talking to my children. I could barely cook meals to them or eat together with them.

It is so hard when I feel that things get worse, after so long time and I loose faith that it will ever improve. I have many symptoms, but the burning acid brain and fatigue are really the worst. It has been there all the time and is really bad. I am scared that this will never go away. I can not really find so many others with this symptom, and that scares me as well.

Bless you🙏

 

[[La...]]

JB don’t feel bad concerning your limitations right now. This is temporary and I’m sure your family understand that you’re sick. All you can do is your best. Right now that is good enough. It really is. Kids are very resilient, they will be alright. Even more, your kids are older so it makes it easier to sit down to talk to them with an explanation of what’s happening to you. This IS temporary. I suggest you let them know that as well. A medication did this to you unknowingly. Not your fault. I suggested you ensuring the kids because they’re probably scared for you. First thing is I’d suggest you start reading some success stories on here so you can believe in your own healing. Believe it and you’ll see it! There are many on here with burning sensations ( I’ve had them too). It is a common symptom. There’s a search bar at the top right of this page for anyone to use to gather information or confirmation of symptoms. Some people have certain symptoms as their main yet longest ones. It’s usually only a couple of symptoms. For example mine are vestibular symptoms ( boatiness, balance, ataxia). Someone else’s might be strange fears and OCD. Yours seem to be burning. Someone posted that having cooling towels on them helps. Have you tried that? Fortunately my burning pops in and out briefly and it is mild so I just wait it out. Since you’ve had this for awhile, it should start fading away very soon. Hang in there. This takes time and patience. But it will be worth it.

Hugs 🤗

[[He...]]

Jb, I agree with everything Lady Den said!  I'm one of the ones who gets a lot of burning and tingling and aching.  It'll come over me and sometimes goes away quickly and other times bombards me for a day or two at a time.  It comes with a little nausea sometimes too. It's really hard so I feel your pain! I believe it will become less and less of an issue.  I know it's hard with the kids. I was SO ill while my kids were in middle and high school (sick from interdose withdrawal and migraines for years) so I understand your sadness over that issue.  LD is right...just tell them the situation and that all indicators are you will get better and you look forward to sharing more things with them  as you heal.  Go easy on yourself both mentally and physically.  It will help you heal.

 

Helen

[[...]]

LadyDen and Helen

Thank you so much for all your kindness and comfort. It means so much to me🙏. It is very hard with the kids and it makes me sad everytime there are things I can't do. But I am very open to them and tell them everything, so they don't have to guess. They know I am ill because of the medicine and they know I’m strong and that I’m fighting. But I can also see that my illness and pain makes them sad. Especially when I can't hide it with tears in my eyes because of all the pain. It is heart breaking for me.

I am especially worried because my symptoms have worsened in the last months. That makes me feel that this will never end. I know now about the milestone withdrawals, but my body just tells me that it is going in the wrong direction.

Right now, I am sitting in my couch with so much burning, head ache, head pressure, dizziness, tingling and tinnitus that it feels like it's going to explode. I also have so much fatigue, and nausea and body pains. Muscle and joint pain and stiffness. I really try to tell my self that all this will go away one day, and that it is just symptoms and that I’m not dead yet - even though it feels like dying.

I try to walk everyday, even though I feel I can't. But I feel that I need to, not to get more sick, since I lie down so much of the time just trying to survive every day.

Thank you for listening to me🙏

[[La...]]

You’re welcome JB! And Helen is right that it’s understandable right now how you feel because we parents always think of the kids first. And rightly so. They will be alright and you will too. Helen gave good advice to tell them as you heal that you’ll make up for time loss. In the meantime it’s a good idea to not dwell on it. I’m curious to know what all have you tried to use for coping? Do you meditate, have a hobby or craft, play games, etc? I see that you’re pushing a bit to walk. That is good to keep the muscle and joints at their best. What me and Helen do on the worser days is REST. That is ok. Are there things you enjoy that you can try that is easy to do as a distraction? Perhaps a jigsaw puzzle or build something with wood. Perhaps it’s something you can do with the kids as well. The idea is to use your hands if you can. This can help the brain to not focus on how you’re feeling. It definitely is a big help for me.

Hang in there friend. And feel free to come over to the 12-24 month & up or the breakfast club. And any other positive threads on this forum. There’s such supportive loving buddies on there. Stick with the positive threads and be careful what you read on here. Someone else’s suffering isn’t necessarily going to be your fate.

 

[[...]]

You’re welcome JB! And Helen is right that it’s understandable right now how you feel because we parents always think of the kids first. And rightly so. They will be alright and you will too. Helen gave good advice to tell them as you heal that you’ll make up for time loss. In the meantime it’s a good idea to not dwell on it. I’m curious to know what all have you tried to use for coping? Do you meditate, have a hobby or craft, play games, etc? I see that you’re pushing a bit to walk. That is good to keep the muscle and joints at their best. What me and Helen do on the worser days is REST. That is ok. Are there things you enjoy that you can try that is easy to do as a distraction? Perhaps a jigsaw puzzle or build something with wood. Perhaps it’s something you can do with the kids as well. The idea is to use your hands if you can. This can help the brain to not focus on how you’re feeling. It definitely is a big help for me.

Hang in there friend. And feel free to come over to the 12-24 month & up or the breakfast club. And any other positive threads on this forum. There’s such supportive loving buddies on there. Stick with the positive threads and be careful what you read on here. Someone else’s suffering isn’t necessarily going to be your fate.

 

Thank you LadyDen for being so kind🙏

I do try to make my self busy. Besides walking, I am trying to work a couple of hours from home every day - just to keep my brain busy with something else. I love my work and I am scared I will loose it because of all this.  However, it is very difficult, since my ability to concentrate has gotten worse in the last months. I can maybe hold focus for 5 min and then I loose it. It came the same time as my dizziness and balance got worse. I have a garden, but it's the same there. Working for 5 min and I’m mentally exhausted and take a break. Walking, I can do. Maybe because I only need to focus on taking the next step.

[[Li...]]

Ha Zzers, the new week has started and the holidays are over here. Today I have a light feeling of tension, lightheadedness.  Still I went swimming in the 50m pool. To my surprise I met my saxophone teacher there, while I would get a saxlesson of him later today. The saxlesson was the first after the holiday period when I had no lessons. I brought my soprano with me, I also have an alto and a tenor. We played several nice songs. Today something weird also happened, I couldn’t login anymore in my spotify account, I send an e-mail to spotify, and I really hope it will be solved. I have so much music and playlists in it, which I ‘collected’ for years. It seems my account is hacked. I hope you all have a good week. I think it is time for me to do a next taper step. Huggs Jeroen  :thumbsup:

 

P.s. Luckily my Spotify account is working again. It was blocked because I had copied songs from it a long time ago. I made my excuse and they reactivated my account. Pfff I was lucky…

[[La...]]

You’re welcome JB! And Helen is right that it’s understandable right now how you feel because we parents always think of the kids first. And rightly so. They will be alright and you will too. Helen gave good advice to tell them as you heal that you’ll make up for time loss. In the meantime it’s a good idea to not dwell on it. I’m curious to know what all have you tried to use for coping? Do you meditate, have a hobby or craft, play games, etc? I see that you’re pushing a bit to walk. That is good to keep the muscle and joints at their best. What me and Helen do on the worser days is REST. That is ok. Are there things you enjoy that you can try that is easy to do as a distraction? Perhaps a jigsaw puzzle or build something with wood. Perhaps it’s something you can do with the kids as well. The idea is to use your hands if you can. This can help the brain to not focus on how you’re feeling. It definitely is a big help for me.

Hang in there friend. And feel free to come over to the 12-24 month & up or the breakfast club. And any other positive threads on this forum. There’s such supportive loving buddies on there. Stick with the positive threads and be careful what you read on here. Someone else’s suffering isn’t necessarily going to be your fate.

 

Thank you LadyDen for being so kind🙏

I do try to make my self busy. Besides walking, I am trying to work a couple of hours from home every day - just to keep my brain busy with something else. I love my work and I am scared I will loose it because of all this.  However, it is very difficult, since my ability to concentrate has gotten worse in the last months. I can maybe hold focus for 5 min and then I loose it. It came the same time as my dizziness and balance got worse. I have a garden, but it's the same there. Working for 5 min and I’m mentally exhausted and take a break. Walking, I can do. Maybe because I only need to focus on taking the next step.

Thanks for explaining this. I’m more clearer now on the issue. I’ve had the concentration thing too early in my acute stage. Now I only have a little trouble with it when I’m in one of the rougher waves. When the wave ends it also ends. So I hope that gives you peace of mind that it isn’t permanent. What I did to help myself is I got a notebook to write down what I needed to. I also had made myself a daily schedule of what I would do at what times. It really helped me. As well as playing games online that requires a little bit of concentration such as card games or word games. A good website for this is card games.io

All the games are free and for the multiplayer games they automatically give a computer generated player. What I love is that it’s not boring. I never get tired of playing them. Also, it makes it easy to learn how to play them because at the bottom of each game is a very detailed instructions that you can go look at anytime even while playing if you forget. There’s no registration require  when I’m having the cog fog moments I play their games like sea battle ( it’s battleship- you just pick a square), farkle ( you roll dice and keep 5’s and 1’s) or Yahtzee ( roll dice and keep what you need). Not much thinking 

That’s good that you are getting up to walk. It’s ok if all you can do in the garden is sit. Nature is very healing. Perhaps take paper and pen to the garden and use it as a place to write down what you’re grateful for or how you’re feeling or draw something you see.

May today be a better day for you. The days will add up and you will have better days if not today. Hugs!

[[La...]]

Ha Zzers, the new week has started and the holidays are over here. Today I have a light feeling of tension, lightheadedness.  Still I went swimming in the 50m pool. To my surprise I met my saxophone teacher there, while I would get a saxlesson of him later today. The saxlesson was the first after the holiday period when I had no lessons. I brought my soprano with me, I also have an alto and a tenor. We played several nice songs. Today something weird also happened, I couldn’t login anymore in my spotify account, I send an e-mail to spotify, and I really hope it will be solved. I have so much music and playlists in it, which I ‘collected’ for years. It seems my account is hacked. I hope you all have a good week. I think it is time for me to do a next taper step. Huggs Jeroen  :thumbsup:

 

P.s. Luckily my Spotify account is working again. It was blocked because I had copied songs from it a long time ago. I made my excuse and they reactivated my account. Pfff I was lucky…

Wow Jerry I’m glad you got the Spotify resolved. Yes they’re getting strict about having other artists music. The reason is artists are losing a lot of money by people stealing their songs or sharing them. If everyone shares their song then no need to buy them, right? And honestly I agree with them! They put in all the hard work and hours so people should pay as they did in former days. I’m sure you being a sax player understands this. It’s a huge problem in the music industry nowadays since file sharing got on the scene.

Happy your teacher joined you for a swim.

Good luck on your next taper step. You got this! Hugs 🤗

[[...]]

LadyDen,

Yes, I have a game that I play too - fishdom. It's also a game, where I don't have to think, but just do... My fine motor skills in my fingers are, however, also impacted from all this. It's like my finger and hand move in small steps and not fluently. Did you hear about that as a wd symptom from others?

The worst is all the terrible tension and pain in my head, though. It's just there all the time with no windows. I could live with all the other stuff, if just my head would function.

Hugs back

[[La...]]

JB this gives all kinds of weird crazy symptoms. Believe me when I tell you that whatever the symptoms there’s someone ( or many someone’s) that has/had it. What we hold on to is that they’ll fade with time. Acceptance and patience is in order. While we have these various symptoms, all we can do is our best to cope with them. I’ve seen the advertisement for fishdom. It looks easy enough 

 

Today is my birthday. I’m celebrating so far in a ugly wave/ morning dread. But you know what, Team Z? I’m going to do my best to make the best of my circumstance. I’m going to find some joy to celebrate my day! Even if I have to be in bed parts of the day. In this recovery we can’t just let it take everything from us. We must find something that we refuse to let it have….I choose my positivity and joy.

 

Have an awesome day everyone! Keep the faith!   

[[...]]

LadyDen,

I wish you a happy birthday and that you will have a day with no or milder wd🙏

Hugs, JB

[[Li...]]

JB this gives all kinds of weird crazy symptoms. Believe me when I tell you that whatever the symptoms there’s someone ( or many someone’s) that has/had it. What we hold on to is that they’ll fade with time. Acceptance and patience is in order. While we have these various symptoms, all we can do is our best to cope with them. I’ve seen the advertisement for fishdom. It looks easy enough 

 

Today is my birthday. I’m celebrating so far in a ugly wave/ morning dread. But you know what, Team Z? I’m going to do my best to make the best of my circumstance. I’m going to find some joy to celebrate my day! Even if I have to be in bed parts of the day. In this recovery we can’t just let it take everything from us. We must find something that we refuse to let it have….I choose my positivity and joy.

 

Have an awesome day everyone! Keep the faith!   

 

Ha LadyDen, congratulations with your birthday. Not fair to be in a wave than. Do you celebrate it with friends and family? I hope you get nice presents and a tasty birthday pie. 👍🏻🎷👍🏻🎷👍🏻🎷🙃😎

 

[[Li...]]

Today is my second day of my new taper step. I slept fine, but I can feel that I am doing it. I feel more depressed and lightheaded too. But that’s ok with me. I am about to go swimming which I do at 4 O clock….

Huggs Jerry

[[La...]]

Thank you JB and Jerry for birthday wishes. I wish you both a good day too. I’m not feeling well but I’m going to make the best of it. Jerry last night some friends and family came over to celebrate my birthday. It was very nice…food, cake, gifts and fellowship with each other. Today my son and wife are coming for lunch with me. I’ll have a virtual dinner by video with my sister and her husband this evening. I’m hoping to feel better by then. I’ll be dressing up in my nice clothes for the dinner. The rest of the day I’ll visit a zoo on YouTube and watch a movie since I can’t go anywhere. I’m not complaining because what matters is that I’m healing and birthdays like this are temporary. My next one I’m sure will be great. I’ll be healed or mostly healed. I plan to be at a nice resort hotel to celebrate it.

You’re doing well with your step down. It’s normal to feel the reduction. You got this!

JB today is one more day that you’ll get through to achieve another day of healing under your belt. What I like to say to myself each day is this….

“ Today might be rough and I know sometimes you want to just quit. But, the rule is that you can’t quit today. You can quit tomorrow.”  The next day, say the same thing…you get it?

[[Li...]]

Ha Z group, today is day 3 of my new taperstep, it feels really tough mentally, luckily there’s the US Open, so I watch a lot of tennis. In 2 hours I go to my father for dinner. Tomorrow I’ll go swimming again. Sleeping goes well, I am grateful for that. I even played saxophone yesterday. Hugggsss Jeroen  :smitten:

[[He...]]

Sorry for the rough feelings Jerry.  I'm also watching a lot of tennis.  I love it.  Enjoy that and visiting your father and swimming and hopefully your symptoms will pass by soon. 

 

Helen

[[...]]

I am really hit hard, here 14 months off.

My head really feels like it's going to explode. I have so much tension inside my head, burning acid feeling, head aches, and it feels like constant waves of electricity going through my brain. Not brain zaps like lightning, but continuous waves.

It even influences my motor skills, both my fine motor skill and walking. I am so dizzy and feel I am falling all the time.

I so much hope that this is all a sign that my brain is healing. I am scared that this will be forever.

[[La...]]

Sorry for the rough feelings Jerry.  I'm also watching a lot of tennis.  I love it.  Enjoy that and visiting your father and swimming and hopefully your symptoms will pass by soon. 

 

Helen

Helen, I wish I was sitting next to you watching and laughing. Yes Jerry please keep enjoying what you are doing.