Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[La...]]

Jerry it’s ok you did what you needed to do. Sounds like your body is telling you to rest more. Listen to it. Big hugs my friend. You’ll get back to swimming soon.

[[La...]]

Helen have you ever been on a train ride? I haven’t. It’s something I want to do at least once. I did ride a subway for the first time right before I started tapering. I really enjoyed it. Is a subway the same as a train ride? I’ve seen them in the western movies and I always wanted to experience it.

How are you doing today? I pray you’re still in a window. Today isn’t so good for me. I’m resting in bed today. So Mari you’re not the only one. 🛌

Big hugs and love to you Twin  🌹

[[He...]]

Mariposta,

 

Good luck with your family visit!  That's some added stress just as you are jumping but keep your focus and take good care of yourself as best as you can. Maybe the distraction of family will be a good thing!

 

Jerry,

 

I'm sorry you aren't feeling so great either.  I'm glad you have an appt.

 

Lady Den,

 

I hate to hear you aren't feeling well again. Darn it!  My husband and I are both sick with sore throats, etc.  Still negative for Covid but sick with something else I suppose.  It's ok. I'm resting. It'll pass. To answer your question, yes, I've had many train rides in the US and Europe. I love being on a train. I've been on Amtrak here in the states between New York and DC and on in California between Sacramento and Oakland.  The European trains are very nice!  And subways are trains, yes.  I rode the subway nearly every day when I lived in New York, London and San Francisco.  You're going to get your train ride!  It's coming. 

 

I hope everyone here feels better soon. 

 

Sending love,

Helen

[[La...]]

Thanks for your reply Helen.

Get well soon my dear! 

[[fl...]]

I did a quick taper from ~18.75 to 0mg zopiclone

two weeks ago,  and substituted with 15mg prazepam

 

i dont have withdrawal symptoms except really bad insomnia.

is it normal or are my "gaba receptors"  getting fried ?

 

 

 

should i add 1-1.75mg zopiclone at night to help sleep,

and then taper that zopiclone back to 0 over a few weeks/months.... while staying on prazepam and perhaps reducing the dosage a bit?

must say i get bad interdose withdrawals with the full benzo equivalent dose of 15mg prazepzam = 15mg zopiclone if i dont take it in time,

 

much worse than when i was still taking zopiclone. (starts with braintension,  spasm, electric shocks and palpitations... in that order)

 

 

ofcourse id keep taking prazepam during the day and perhaps a little at night too.  not planning to cut out the prazepam quickly all of a sudden.

 

i know official ashton method recommends a full switch from 15 to 0mg zopiclone in only 2 weeks,  but I'm not sure if that's the best thing for the benzo receptors not 100% covered by prazepam.

 

 

 

[[La...]]

Fly if you’re doing ok off the zop then I wouldn’t go back and forth if I were you. Perhaps let your body/ brain calm down a bit then you can taper the P. Maybe the taper thread can give you some advice.

Best wishes.

[[ma...]]

I personally wouldn't reinstate zopiclone as you may be kindled.

[[fl...]]

I personally wouldn't reinstate zopiclone as you may be kindled.

this is within the 2(4?) week window where reinstuting supposedly is still a possibility.  had been off zopi for only 2 weeks.

 

edit: i went on 1mg of zopiclone and even 0.45mg of zopiclone for three weeks but it didnt seem to make much if a difference withdrawal wise.

 

i don't feel kindled but i do think i would have been better off tapering the zopiclone while i was initiating prazepam. i didnt do a proper substitution and went from ~15mg zopiclone straight to ~15mg prazepam. i would have been better off doing a gradual substitution i think, but i had to quit zopiclone cause i could no longer tolerate it.

 

upped the dose from 15mg prazepam to 20mg prazepam and will wait another month before attempting to taper that.

[[La...]]

Fly I’m going to say some things to you that might sound a bit rough BUT my intentions are well.

So here it goes…..it seems you are trying to feel good while going through WD. Unfortunately that is highly unlikely to happen. In this recovery there must be acceptance and expectations of symptoms/ waves. The only way through is to go through it. The symptoms is your body’s response to coming off medication it is accustomed to AND they’re also a result of a CNS trying to return to homeostasis. Simply put…you are not going to feel well for a bit. Oftentimes people going through this go seeking a quick relief of WD and end up making things soooooo much worse. Honestly I like it that you’re not a fan of getting on diazepam if you don’t have to. You’re already on two meds so why add a third that you’d have to taper? So I agree with that. And yes if you read through this thread you’ll see others went the diazepam route and strongly regretted it. One is a very good buddy of mine Shayna. She was on zoplicone and went on diazepam….really a much rougher ride for her. But now she’s doing much better- almost healed.

I think you should continue to taper off the zop. It’s not much left to taper according to the dose you’re on. Ride the WD out with the Prazepam then taper that when you’re ready. There is no easy way to do this. But it can be done if the person is careful not to be their own worst enemy. IMO I say there’s many buddies who’ve gone before us that were kind enough to leave their experiences here in hopes of sparing unnecessary extra agony to those coming along. I’m for one am grateful that they did. Because of them, I was able to get an informed doable taper plan with the knowledge that I just won’t feel good for awhile. And that’s ok. It’s common and it’s expected. At the end of the day, it is YOUR body so it’s your decision. I’m suggesting that before you do anything please do research here to see what you’ll be up against. No matter your choice, there’s plenty of support here on this forum. IMO, grab a good buddy, have a wise doable plan and get off the pills. Some time as you heal, you’ll be so happy that you did!

Best wishes 🙏 

[[ma...]]

I agree with LadyDen. I considered the same thing, switching to valium and she shared her knowledge and that was enough for me to decide against it. I've now been off zopiclone for 4 days and the only thing I'm really dealing with is nausea. I had some different symptoms each time I cut but they were manageable and it seems the further off the drugs I am, the better I am. I think by tomorrow or the day after I will be in the clear. so a quick taper from zop has worked really well for me.

[[La...]]

Mari 

 

What wonderful news! Huge congrats on being off! Well done dear! I knew you could tough it out. You’re right that it’s worth just keep dropping down no matter how you feel and be done with it!  Thank you for being a witness. I’m so happy for you. The nausea will gradually fade away. It is common. Matter of fact I had it in acute but never vomiting. Now I get it every now and then but much milder and only in a wave. Oh….and it’s very short lived. Usually no more than an hour or less. I simply ignore it.

Big hugs and love to you! ❤️🤗

If you need anything else please just ask.

Your acute is very early so I wanted to add that it’s not surprising if you get new symptoms pop up. Don’t be alarmed by them. Take one day at a time. Stay distracted all day every day with a daily plan. What time you’ll do this or that. When your symptoms are rough you’ll do this or that, etc. You got this, Mari! 

[[La...]]

Jerry how are you doing, buddy?

[[Ta...]]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm hoping you have advice. Been taking Ambien CR 6.25 for a couple years now with no issues. Then 2 weeks ago I was prescribed an antibiotic (Flagyl) and things have just gone crazy. I'm dizzy constantly. I keep falling asleep throughout the day, no appetite. I barely can function and have had to call in sick to work, can't take care of kids, etc. I feel horrible.

 

Have seen so many doctors who thought it was a bad reaction to the antibiotic and now are thinking Vertigo and sending me to vestibular therapy. But could this be all somehow related to the Ambien CR? I keep asking if I should stop using, but I didn't want to introduce a bunch of withdrawal symptoms to complicate the symptoms I already have as we try to figure this out. And because it's controlled release I can't decrease dosage on my own.

 

So desperate at this point - any help?

 

 

[[ma...]]

Thanks so much Lady. You've been an incredible help. 

 

Tak, I hope someone more knowledgeable than me can help you out.

[[Li...]]

Ha Ladyden,

We had some warm days over here, tomorrow that is over. My house is still warm and I think it will take several weeks or longer for it go back to normal. I went swimming today and later went to a small village with my best friend to eat in a very nice restaurant famous for its pancakes. My friend had a hamburger and I had a bacon cheese pancake, which was so delicious. We had a nice conversation and he told me how much he appreciated our special friendship. It might sound strange, but I think I know him from other lifes,  before this one. It is bedtime for me now, many hugs from me. You are a very wise woman. Hugggs, Jerry

[[...]]

Hi everybody

I just found this group. I’m 14 months off imovane, after 5 years of use. Ct'ed, unfortunately.

I still feel really bad. No windows - just a long wave until now. Mostly physical symptoms; muscle and joint pain, burning brain, dizziness, electricity through body and brain, stomach pain, and so on.

Are there anyone else, who can relate to this?

[[La...]]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm hoping you have advice. Been taking Ambien CR 6.25 for a couple years now with no issues. Then 2 weeks ago I was prescribed an antibiotic (Flagyl) and things have just gone crazy. I'm dizzy constantly. I keep falling asleep throughout the day, no appetite. I barely can function and have had to call in sick to work, can't take care of kids, etc. I feel horrible.

 

Have seen so many doctors who thought it was a bad reaction to the antibiotic and now are thinking Vertigo and sending me to vestibular therapy. But could this be all somehow related to the Ambien CR? I keep asking if I should stop using, but I didn't want to introduce a bunch of withdrawal symptoms to complicate the symptoms I already have as we try to figure this out. And because it's controlled release I can't decrease dosage on my own.

 

So desperate at this point - any help?

Hi Tak firstly I welcome you to Team Z thread! Sounds to me that your body is giving signals that you’ve developed tolerance withdrawal. Flagyl does has its own side effects but I feel that because of your Ambien CR use, your brain reacted to it more intensely. This is common due to down regulated gaba receptors. When other medications are introduced into the body, they can cause some wild never before reactions. Including things we’ve used for years without ever it being an issue can turn on us. I have a few questions to ask you so I can better help you…

Are you still taking the antibiotic?

Do you take Ambien every night?

Do you feel better during the day but close to your ambien night dose you feel bad?

Do you want to get off the ambien?

If you do, then I can do my best to help you. I also was on the ambien cr ( generic- zolpidem er). Those are strongly advised by pharmacists and the drug manufacturers that you do not cut those. They’re especially designed with two releases of the medication to keep you asleep at night. Cutting them will caused too much release at one time. Which is very dangerous. So if you want to taper first you should switch to regular ambien ( 5mg). After letting the brain adjust to that change for two weeks then you can began a dry slow controlled taper. In which I know how to help you do that.

[[La...]]

Ha Ladyden,

We had some warm days over here, tomorrow that is over. My house is still warm and I think it will take several weeks or longer for it go back to normal. I went swimming today and later went to a small village with my best friend to eat in a very nice restaurant famous for its pancakes. My friend had a hamburger and I had a bacon cheese pancake, which was so delicious. We had a nice conversation and he told me how much he appreciated our special friendship. It might sound strange, but I think I know him from other lifes,  before this one. It is bedtime for me now, many hugs from me. You are a very wise woman. Hugggs, Jerry

Wow Jerry what a lovely day you had. I also love pancakes. I’m considering having some this morning for my breakfast. Your friend sounds like a good pal. There’s people that I instantly have connected with in my lifetime that I also feel I’ve known them before. So I get it. I can’t wait until I’m out and about again making happy memories too. I really miss going whenever I want when I want but it’s coming soon.  I’m healing nicely everyday. We all are. Take care and keep swimming.

Oh yes…..it’s still pretty warm here too. Rain expected. I’m looking forward to fall. My birthday is coming up on the first.  I was hoping to celebrate it out in a restaurant but doesn’t look like that will happen this birthday. That’s ok. For sure the next one will be if it’s God’s will.

Big hugs and love, my friend ❤️🤗

[[La...]]

Hi everybody

I just found this group. I’m 14 months off imovane, after 5 years of use. Ct'ed, unfortunately.

I still feel really bad. No windows - just a long wave until now. Mostly physical symptoms; muscle and joint pain, burning brain, dizziness, electricity through body and brain, stomach pain, and so on.

Are there anyone else, who can relate to this?

Hello JB firstly welcome to Team Z! I’d like to congratulate you on being off Imovane for 14 months. Well done! I’m sure your journey so far has been a bumpy road. My heart goes out to you. Mine has been bumpy too. Some people on Zdrugs come off without much distress or prolonged after effects but some don’t. Seems we are one of the ones who has been forced to join the prolonged club. But….that doesn’t mean we won’t heal. With yours being a CT I’m sure that has to be factored in. Even so, you will still heal. I find that Zdrugs mainly cause mostly physical symptoms than the regular benzos. I’ve had all those that you named and mainly my symptoms are vestibular ones ( boatiness/dizziness, issues with balance, pulling downward sensation). The rest of my symptoms you listed come and go. They are slowly decreasing and visits are short as time goes on. Yours will do the same. I didn’t start improving much until around 16-18 months. In this journey there are also what’s called milestone waves. These occur at certain timeframes as you heal. They oftentimes feel like the acute days when you were at your worst but they’re milder - like a mini acute. You are about that timeframe. With you not having windows or very few, I don’t see any reason why you will began to get them very soon. Not everyone has many of those. It’s according to how your brain chooses to heal you. Windows or lack of them doesn’t mean you are not healing. You may have had windows but they were so small that you didn’t notice them. A window is simply feeling better for a certain time whether it’s a little or a lot. I would say to keep taking one day at a time. Eat clean, stay hydrated and walk daily. Keep yourself something to do daily especially with your hands. Use meditation and prayer if you’re religious. The days will add up. You’ll began to notice gradually feeling better. Unfortunately some of us are slow healers. Until then you have our support. Hugs 🤗

[[...]]

Dear LadyDen

Thank so much for your long and nice welcome. I am so happy to read your words, which are very comforting. Thank you🙏

I might have a very few and short windows - maybe a couple of hours twice a month, where I just feel a little better.

I didn’t hear about the milestone waves before. I actually got worse at around month 12, and it has been really bad since then, where I suddenly could do even less... I have three kids to take care of, half time - so any worsening really means a lot.

When I stopped, 14 months ago, I didn't really feel acute withdrawal, but I was also really sick already. I think I was suffering from tolerance and interdose withdrawal over nearly 5 years. I didn’t know then, but I can see it now. So already being sick, it didn’t make a very big difference that I stopped. 4 months before that, I stopped with an AD and that certainly didn’t make things better.

So, what is the experiences with the milestone waves? Do they e.g. come after 12 months? I feel æike my CNR is totally over exitatory. Not that I can't sit still - thats nearly the only thing I can, but every nerve in my body hurts with awful pain, and especially in my brain.

In the last month, it also affects my breathing. It's like the automatic process is going idle, and I have to do it manually. Is that normal. It can trigger my anxiety, which I besides that have under control.

I do eat healthy, qnd I do try to walk. However, in the last month or two, walking has become difficult, as I feel I am going to faint any moment

Hugs, 🤗

 

[[La...]]

JB you’re very welcome. 🤗

I bet your babies are such cutie pies. I’m also a mother of 3 and a grandmother of 3. Going through this with kids is really tough. The smaller the kids are the tougher IMO. Please don’t feel bad about the limitations you have. All you can do is your best and you are doing that. So I applaud you.

To answer your questions….milestone waves occur around certain timeframes as people recover. They can be at 6 months, 9 months, 12 months, 16-18 months, around 2 years and so on until a person is completely healed. Around here we call it getting “slammed”. It feels like the person is getting worse and it’s common to also experience old symptoms cycling back around that has been gone for awhile. Or an increase in intensity of symptoms and waves that are already present OR a combination of both. These milestone waves can be anywhere around the above months…for example, someone might get the 12 month wave at 11 months or up to the 14 month. Many BBs become worried when they get slammed that the healing they’ve had is gone but that’s not the case. You might see threads on here entitled “ worse before better”. This is common in this non-linear recovery. It’s certainly a two steps forward and one step back kind of thing. It sucks, right? Roller coaster is the best description IMO. I keep in mind that all roller coasters end. Thank God!

I have heard of all the symptoms that you mentioned. They’re all common whether it’s a zdrug, benzo, AD or other medications that act on gaba receptors. The good news is that they will fade away with time. All we can do is just keeping coping with them using what works so far. I’ve had the tight breathing heavy chest symptom briefly off and on. Although mine was mild, it was very alarming. It also raised my anxiety because it makes you scared you won’t breathe. All I did was used controlled breathing, distracted myself to stay calm. The brain will take what it needs when it needs it. Even an injured brain like ours will do that. I had to do a reality check to fight my fears. I ask myself a simple question….am I dead/ did I die? Nope, I’m still here. It calmed me to do those affirmations. I hope they help you too. I’ve also had the feeling faint symptom. I deal with it the same way as I do all my symptoms.

Some good go-to affirmations:

I’m sick right now but I’m healing. So it’s ok.

My brain is hard at work fixing itself. That’s why I feel rough right now. It’s temporary.

I’m doing the best that I can. That’s IS good enough.

Let’s see what I can push through today.

Soon I will get a nice window.

I’m stronger than I realized. I’m surviving this!

Ok symptoms…I feel you. Feeling is healing.

With time I will recover completely and it will manifest that I’m alright.

I won’t always feel this way. These are just symptoms.

 

:smitten:

 

[[Ag...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I pop up from time to time to share my progress and ask for advice.

I completed a 6 month taper off 2mg Rohypnol (8 months total use including 6 month taper) in February 2022. 

I am 6 months into a taper of 10mg ambien. As of late August 2022, I have been on ambien for 14 months total (including taper). I am currently at 0.9 mg and ready to jump very, very soon. I taper 10% of the current dose every 7 or 10 days. (for superstitious reasons, I don't want to update my signature until I'm well and truly completely off the ambien)

 

Withdrawal symptoms have been very rough. However, to date, as has always been the case in my situation, the terrible sleep has been the biggest hurdle. My sleep is very bad, 4,5 hours. Very, very rarely I'll get 6 hours which is heaven. It's so, so hard to function on this little sleep for over a year now...  

 

One thing about my situation is that the ambien and rohypnol never, ever gave me a deep restful full night's sleep. I have been waking up for the bathroom about 3-4am for about 10 years or so and this has continued during my ambien use.

 

In any case, I know there is no future on the ambien so, despite the challenges, I have kept up with my taper. I have to believe that sleep will eventually recover and I will get better. 

 

I take a boatload of supplements during the day (glycine, taurine, magnesium citrate, lithium orotate, zinc, bacopa etc.) recommended by Peter Smith. I don't know if they are helping but they don't seem to be hurting as far as I can tell. 

 

Before bed I take 200 mg magnesium biglycinate and 0.3mg of melatonin.

When I wake up in the night I usually take Hops, Holy Basil, Bio-milk Peptides and California Poppy. They sometimes have helped but recently often don't seem to get me any additional sleep. 

 

Most everyday I do a 30 minute yoga nidra meditation using the Insight Timer app; once in the morning and once in the afternoon. This really seems to help me survive and recharge enough to get through the days when I feel absolutely crushed by exhaustion.

 

I don't know if what I am doing is good or bad but I carry on and move forward regardless.

 

I would greatly welcome any comments and advice.

 

Hoping for healing for all.

 

 

    

[[...]]

Agoura Success,

You and I have very similar history.

I can tell you, once I got off all the benzos and Z drugs, I still had trouble sleeping for about a year.

Then I started taking Zoloft.

At first it made sleep worse but my doctor said, stay with it.  I am glad I did.  After about 3 months, my sleep is really good.

Zoloft has fixed the anxiety induced insomnia which is my core problem.

I do wake up 3 times a night to go pee but I go right back to sleep with a little magnesium.

I no longer take all the supplements.  I feel better without them.

B

[[Pa...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I pop up from time to time to share my progress and ask for advice.

I completed a 6 month taper off 2mg Rohypnol (8 months total use including 6 month taper) in February 2022.

I am 6 months into a taper of 10mg ambien. As of late August 2022, I have been on ambien for 14 months total (including taper). I am currently at 0.9 mg and ready to jump very, very soon. I taper 10% of the current dose every 7 or 10 days. (for superstitious reasons, I don't want to update my signature until I'm well and truly completely off the ambien)

 

Withdrawal symptoms have been very rough. However, to date, as has always been the case in my situation, the terrible sleep has been the biggest hurdle. My sleep is very bad, 4,5 hours. Very, very rarely I'll get 6 hours which is heaven. It's so, so hard to function on this little sleep for over a year now... 

 

One thing about my situation is that the ambien and rohypnol never, ever gave me a deep restful full night's sleep. I have been waking up for the bathroom about 3-4am for about 10 years or so and this has continued during my ambien use.

 

In any case, I know there is no future on the ambien so, despite the challenges, I have kept up with my taper. I have to believe that sleep will eventually recover and I will get better.

 

I take a boatload of supplements during the day (glycine, taurine, magnesium citrate, lithium orotate, zinc, bacopa etc.) recommended by Peter Smith. I don't know if they are helping but they don't seem to be hurting as far as I can tell.

 

Before bed I take 200 mg magnesium biglycinate and 0.3mg of melatonin.

When I wake up in the night I usually take Hops, Holy Basil, Bio-milk Peptides and California Poppy. They sometimes have helped but recently often don't seem to get me any additional sleep.

 

Most everyday I do a 30 minute yoga nidra meditation using the Insight Timer app; once in the morning and once in the afternoon. This really seems to help me survive and recharge enough to get through the days when I feel absolutely crushed by exhaustion.

 

I don't know if what I am doing is good or bad but I carry on and move forward regardless.

 

I would greatly welcome any comments and advice.

 

Hoping for healing for all.

 

 

   

 

You're getting close Agoura Success, I'm excited to see how you do when you complete your taper.  My friend recently stopped taking Ambien, he realized it was causing him some terrible stomach and anxiety issues, first he started taking a reduced dose but was still miserable so he stopped cold turkey.  After a couple of days he felt great, no more anxiety and bad belly, it took him a few days to get some good sleep but he's fully recovered and doing great now.  I hope when you step off of the drug you'll do just as well.

 

I'll be waiting for your success story, I'm hopeful it will come soon.

[[or...]]

I felt very crappy  also on my Ambien taper, Agoura, and insomnia was my worst s/x. You are tapering more slowly than I did, and things seem to be working out for you. If I were to give any advice, I'd say keep on doing what you're doing. You'll search as all us insomniacs did, for something to help you sleep, and it may take a while to settle on something. But really, Ambien has not been helping you forever, so you'll not miss the sleep-inducing attributes of the drug. You'll be done with it when you jump, and the crappy way it's making you feel will be done in a few weeks. At least that's how it was for me.

 

Best of luck with your jump.

 

Katz