Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Mo...]]

Nikitas, your doctor is WAY too low.  On-line calculators are all over the place with the equivalents, varying between 5-10 mg, I believe....but 2-3 mg could really cause you to go into a tailspin.  A gradual crossover should help you determine how much and I believe Ashton says the same. 

 

Joy, I don't think you should delete this.  I have heard others say the same thing about antibiotics, unfortunately.  But as you said, we are all individual.  You could edit your post if you want to just say that this is your "experience" or that you think that this may have caused you an issue but when someone searches, I think this could be valuable to share what you experienced yourself.  Just a thought.......doctors and pharmacists underplay the significance of drug interactions but they can cause severe issues.  I know that the PPI I was taking was definitely interefering with my Klonopin because as soon as I stopped taking it, I went into acute - felt it right away but didn't know what was going on.  There were no interactions between the PPI and the Klonopin documented and I asked the pharmacists and searched online.  But there IS an interaction between PPIs and Valium and that leads me to believe that there is truly one but it's just not been officially documented/researched, etc.  It's just kinda scary. 

[[Ol...]]

Mom, my understanding is the PPI's make Valium more bio-available, so basically it is stronger. So when you take the PPI away, it reduces the bio-availability of the benzo in your system. I am on a PPI and have been waiting to get off it until I am fully off of Valium... which could not come soon enough!

[[Jo...]]

Nikitas, your doctor is WAY too low.  On-line calculators are all over the place with the equivalents, varying between 5-10 mg, I believe....but 2-3 mg could really cause you to go into a tailspin.  A gradual crossover should help you determine how much and I believe Ashton says the same. 

 

Joy, I don't think you should delete this.  I have heard others say the same thing about antibiotics, unfortunately.  But as you said, we are all individual.  You could edit your post if you want to just say that this is your "experience" or that you think that this may have caused you an issue but when someone searches, I think this could be valuable to share what you experienced yourself.  Just a thought.......doctors and pharmacists underplay the significance of drug interactions but they can cause severe issues.  I know that the PPI I was taking was definitely interefering with my Klonopin because as soon as I stopped taking it, I went into acute - felt it right away but didn't know what was going on.  There were no interactions between the PPI and the Klonopin documented and I asked the pharmacists and searched online.  But there IS an interaction between PPIs and Valium and that leads me to believe that there is truly one but it's just not been officially documented/researched, etc.  It's just kinda scary.

 

Yes that might be best. So the disclaimer for anything I post is that it is my experience only, not medical advice, and I am not a medical professional,  merely a fellow warrior. And I will in the future always cite when talking about an article.

 

To your point, I actually had an ER RN look at me like I had 3 heads when I told him I was crossing from long term use of Xanax to Valium and was very symptomatic.  He shook his head, kinda chuckled and said, "that would be impossible because they are both benzodiazepines. "  So you are right, each of us here on BB have probably been told "facts" that did not jive with what was happening to us inside. Keep healing! -Joy

[[Ma...]]

Hi all, would 2 to 3 mg of valium substitute for 1 mg of Ativan? That's what my psychiatrist is proposing, he thinks the Ashton manual dose of 10mg of valium for 1 mg of Ativan is too high.

 

Thank you!

 

I have read and experienced that 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Can you do some more research and share it with your Dr?

That could potentially be a very tough transition.

 

Nik, the 10 mgs of Valium maybe a little high, a lot of people experience that, but what your Dr is suggesting is way too low.  I agree with all others advice there.  Unfortunately, there is no way to know perfect number except by trying say 8 mgs and see how you feel, if you feel really good, maybe try 7.  Everyone's experience is different.  Good luck and keep us posted  .  Mary 💜

[[Pa...]]

Oh hey Pamster. I addressed this with another admin, Challis. Please feel free to delete. Here is what I read

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ana.410080112?sid=nlm%3Apubmed

 

My experience is just my own. I am no doctor and will not pontificate to others. Taking medications is a very personal and individual decision between patient and doctor.... weighing benefits and risks. What happened to me just happened to me. If you feel what I shared was not a correct reading of this document, please feel free to delete it. 

 

Perfect Joy, thanks so much.  We've just had a bit of a rough go lately with the discussion of antibiotics, I did see your post to Challis and I appreciate your response to me. 

 

Okay, now back to helping Nikitis and hopefully educating her Dr in the process.

[[Jo...]]

Pamster, thank you and all the other Admins. You are doing a Herculean job!!! 

[[Mo...]]

Hi everyone, long time no contact!

 

So i'm all on Valium (12.5mg) and have been for a while but still have alot of derealization and anxiety though I am able to function at home and doing errands etc, still have anxiety and still not back at work as long conversations with strangers are almost impossible, and cog fog, depression but hey, at least no more interdose withdrawal from Ativan! 

 

I kept my doses of Valium at the same times I took my Ativan (4 times a day).  The depression and extreme fatigue are getting worse and I am wondering if it is because I am dosing 4 times a day.

 

My question is: will dosing 3 times a day (then 2 times hopefuly) lessen the sedation I experience and possibly also reduce some anxiety/derealization/depression? (because I truly think the benzo is what is causing it)

 

Thanks all for any insights you have or experience.

 

Take care, cheers

 

MP

[[Ol...]]

Hi Monkey! Congrats on the successful crossover! I crossed over from Xanax and I did notice that it made me much more sleepy/depressed at first. That did pass though, I hope it does for you too.

 

[[va...]]

Momof7,Olive kitty, I'm reading your comments here on the ppi. I had no idea about this but now I recall that I'd been taking a ppi for years, omeprazole and later pantoprazole, and started taking it less and less until around last may /June I stopped taking it. I crashed in mid June. I don't like to say acute wd because I can't be sure, but if it wasn't acute it was pretty close. It has been brutal and it's taking me ages to recover from that. I had also sped up my taper since end of April, much faster than ten percent a month, because I started reading the Ashton manual and she recommended much bigger cuts (in my opinion this manual is in urgent need of editing). Now I'm thinking perhaps both factors contributed to my crash: the tapering speed and quitting the pantoprazole.

 

[[Tr...]]

Hi Valiumnomore,

 

Like you I was on a PPI,  but mine was Pantozol. It says it the leaflet inside my Diazepam box some PPI ' s shouldn't be taken with Diazepam.

 

But Pantozol is OK. ( it's not the same as Pantoprazol!).

 

BTW, I stopped taking it after tests showed my stomach was fine, no ulcers or polyps or anything.  I did taper it in a couple of weeks.

 

Omeprazol and Pantoprazol should not be used while taking  Diazepam.

 

You're absolutely right about the Ashton manual: it desperately needs an update. The suggested cuts and speed are way too big and fast.

 

Hope you're having a better day.

 

T.

 

 

[[Ol...]]

Agreed on all counts! The Ashton Manual is a lifesaver in getting solid information and having something legitimate to educate our doctors and support people, but the taper speed definitely does not work for everyone.

Also VNM I do wonder if coming off the PPI aided in your crash. I have worried about that and is why I am still on it, though I have taken a smidge out of my morning dose for the last 4 days, I REALLY want to get of them!!

[[Tr...]]

Hi OliveKittty and Valiumnomore,

 

Most people take a PPI for acid reflux / heartburn.  To avoid having that, people should take a close look at how they react to certain foods. I put bricks and a plank under the legs at the top end of my bed. It lifts the entire bed and not just the matrass,  so the acid doesn't flow back into you esophagus at night. And you can still ly straight. Worked wonders for me.

 

OliveKittty,  should you want to get off the PPI,  It is recommended to taper it off for a week or two.

 

Good luck.

[[Ma...]]

Hi everyone, long time no contact!

 

So i'm all on Valium (12.5mg) and have been for a while but still have alot of derealization and anxiety though I am able to function at home and doing errands etc, still have anxiety and still not back at work as long conversations with strangers are almost impossible, and cog fog, depression but hey, at least no more interdose withdrawal from Ativan! 

 

I kept my doses of Valium at the same times I took my Ativan (4 times a day).  The depression and extreme fatigue are getting worse and I am wondering if it is because I am dosing 4 times a day.

 

My question is: will dosing 3 times a day (then 2 times hopefuly) lessen the sedation I experience and possibly also reduce some anxiety/derealization/depression? (because I truly think the benzo is what is causing it)

 

Thanks all for any insights you have or experience.

 

Take care, cheers

 

MP

 

MP, so good to see you  . Valium was very sedating to me until I got below 10.  I dosed 3 times a day and could barely hold my head up.  Are you sleeping well at night?  On how many mgs?  The more you can take at night might give you a break during the day, but everyone is different.  Sorry you are struggling.  LY, Mary 💜

[[va...]]

Olive Kitty, you're doing so well on your valium taper that do you really want to risk messin up your benzo taper by reducing the omeprazole? That stuff can wait. I wouldn't change anything for now except the valium. Once you're off the valium then tacke the omeprazole. It will be a walk in the park compared to the benzo hell. Why risk a setback making changes now with the ppi, when your taper is going so smoothly? Just my opinion as usual.

 

Trotschetter since I came off the lexapro my stomach is much better. I think that'w why I needed the ppi in the first place, due to lexapro's side effects. BTW another contributing factor to my crash is that in April I reached the end of my three and a half year lexapro taper. It was a series of circumstances that led to the crash, being IMO the taper speed the most significant one, but the others sure didn't help.

[[Mo...]]

I believe Ashton said that the method that she wrote was too aggressive now. But don't quote me on that.

[[va...]]

I believe Ashton said that the method that she wrote was too aggressive now. But don't quote me on that.

 

I have been told by PM, by a buddy who has consultations with Baylissa, that Ashton told Baylissa that during the past years Ashton thought the taper speed is too fast for some. I have never seen this directly said by Ashton so I won't quote her. And I think if she had really said had she would have edited the book.  I think the taper speed is fine for many, in fact it was perfectly fine for me to come off CT once and rapid tapering a second time. But if you're severely kindled, things change. Some people can't make it that fast in spite of it being their first taper. I never knew anything about kindling when I went  back on it of course.

 

Due to all this, I don't read "CT" and immediately assume it's going to be horrible. I CTd once and had debilitating symptoms but NOTHING like this last slow taper. It's not the CT or the amount of benzo. Each brain is in a different state and is different to begin with, and to this my psychiatrist agrees. He's seen people coming off 40 mgs of valium with no issues, and others touching a little of their 2 mgs of valium and having major problems. Yesterday he mentioned some people have seizures when cutting a very small amount, but he did tell me these are very few cases (seizures).

[[Me...]]

If you are only tapering a benzo and not on other drugs, the Ashton manual is as good a guide as you will find. There is no reason you can't go slower or faster, you decide. Use it as a starting point. 

All drugs have side effects and interactions.

Many people are trying to taper benzos other than valium. The Ashton manual recommends crossing over to valium. If you are not doing that, there can be problems because of the strength of other benzos.

The tangled mess of polydrugging is hard to unravel and common sense should always be used.

As many have found out, even drugs that you wouldn't think would be a problem turn out to be problematic.

 

[[bl...]]

Thanks for your response--MessedUpBy..

 

Appreciate you time and review.

 

Hello to the group.

 

Cheers

 

[[...]]

The Ashton manual is a guide, from a few members I've now decided to slow my taper and hold I believe you should listen to your body and go at your own pace that is comfortable for you.

 

Btw can you have a window whilst still in the  middle of a taper?

 

I woke up 2 days ago and had the most amazing feeling all day. Zero symptoms I couldn't understand what happened.

 

But it was short lived although I'm getting used to 40mg now  and may do a 2mg cut in two weeks. I'm going to stick to a low and slow taper plan.

 

I hope everyone is doing well lots of love 

[[Tr...]]

Hi MMXV, 

 

Yes you can! I' m still in the process of tapering and had a Window in September which lasted tree days. Like you said, I felt great.

After that it took almost three months for me to have another window, just lasting a Sunday morning. And just this Wednesday another one.

 

About the Ashton manual: in the higher doses it may be fine to taper as suggested. I started at 10 mgs of Valium and could taper the first couple of mgs without big issues. Reducing 1 mg per month in one cut. After getting down to 6 mgs I had to change to a microtaper.

Just listen to how your body reacts is the right way to go.

 

Enjoy your day!

[[Mo...]]

Val,

Wow!!  It's so frustrating that docs and pharmacists do not recognize the interaction of so many meds.  I would say that it is very likely that the PPI could have something to do with your crash. 

 

Olive,

Definitely wait on the PPI.....tackle that once you are off the benzo and then slooowwwlllyy taper off that beast.  A friend of mine and I used to joke that PPIs were like demons but benzos are the devil.  That was only my experience.  As with so many things, many have no issues.

[[Ol...]]

Thanks guys, I do know that the PPI is going to be very hard for me to taper. I get really bad anxiety when I get acid reflux. My big plan has always been to taper the PPI after the valium. But, I also did not know it would take me 3 years  to get off the valium. PPI's are very bad for you long term, and I am really worried about being on it for so long. I promise I will not go too fast, I have literally taken out a few tiny beads of the whole pill. There is no risk that I will taper the PPI too fast, I'm too nervous about it.

[[va...]]

OK I was on ppis for about five years and I came off after that. It's bad after many many years, but you're so near the end of the Valium taper... One more year on the ppi won't hurt you. Oh and my mother is on omeprazole for ten years now.

[[Ol...]]

OK I was on ppis for about five years and I came off after that. It's bad after many many years, but you're so near the end of the Valium taper... One more year on the ppi won't hurt you. Oh and my mother is on omeprazole for ten years now.

 

Good to have some perspective, thanks! Ok I'll worry about it later.

[[va...]]

OK I was on ppis for about five years and I came off after that. It's bad after many many years, but you're so near the end of the Valium taper... One more year on the ppi won't hurt you. Oh and my mother is on omeprazole for ten years now.

 

Good to have some perspective, thanks! Ok I'll worry about it later.

 

And for the records, in spite of being nearly eighty, her memory is much better than mine. Of course, she's never taken psych drugs.