Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[os...]]

 

I learned the hard way since the very start.

 

I remember when my original GP made a mistake when I asked him if I could drop the equivalent of 2mg valium from a starting dose of 12mg and he said that would be fine... I just wanted a head start on my taper before going slow, 14 days later all hell broke loose... at that most it should have not exceeded 1.2mg if it were to be 10%... and I cut 2mg... wow, that was insane, felt like I had suffered a stroke...

 

THEN I made the wise decision to taper daily but did not have the common sense to use any holds...  I just reduced the size of my cuts, I was super sick but just kept on trucking and then had a huge window and then got slammed into hell straight after at 4mg Valium equivalent... I could never put into words how bad that week was, it was utter hell. Never again please God.

 

Lesson there kids, use holds... use them often.

 

 

[[ar...]]

 

I learned the hard way since the very start.

 

I remember when my original GP made a mistake when I asked him if I could drop the equivalent of 2mg valium from a starting dose of 12mg and he said that would be fine... I just wanted a head start on my taper before going slow, 14 days later all hell broke loose... at that most it should have not exceeded 1.2mg if it were to be 10%... and I cut 2mg... wow, that was insane, felt like I had suffered a stroke...

 

THEN I made the wise decision to taper daily but did not have the common sense to use any holds...  I just reduced the size of my cuts, I was super sick but just kept on trucking and then had a huge window and then got slammed into hell straight after at 4mg Valium equivalent... I could never put into words how bad that week was, it was utter hell. Never again please God.

 

Lesson there kids, use holds... use them often.

 

I remember holding at 4mg for 21 days.  4mg was a rough one.

[[ed...]]

Hi All! I'm fairly new here and just trying to learn the ropes. I recently cut to 7mg Diaz from 8mg (about 9 days ago). Things went predictably well for the first few days then the anxiety crept in on me after several days. Yesterday was the first day I had a window again. However, due to working super late, I was late taking my first dose yesterday by about 5 hours (I am a 2X per day doser--around 10am and 10pm). I seemed okay last night and the window was still good.

 

Today around 2pm I got hit with a wave that is still ebbing and flowing. Is it possible that this wave is the result of me taking my first dose 5 hours late? Or is it more likely just a "normal" wave that comes and goes for no apparent reason?

 

Thanks,

Ed

[[Mo...]]

Hi All! I'm fairly new here and just trying to learn the ropes. I recently cut to 7mg Diaz from 8mg (about 9 days ago). Things went predictably well for the first few days then the anxiety crept in on me after several days. Yesterday was the first day I had a window again. However, due to working super late, I was late taking my first dose yesterday by about 5 hours (I am a 2X per day doser--around 10am and 10pm). I seemed okay last night and the window was still good.

 

Today around 2pm I got hit with a wave that is still ebbing and flowing. Is it possible that this wave is the result of me taking my first dose 5 hours late? Or is it more likely just a "normal" wave that comes and goes for no apparent reason?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

Hi Ed!

Welcome to the thread.

 

It could be...

But waves and windows come as they go. Sometimes we just don't know if anything in particular caused it or if it is " just " withdrawals and it would have happened anyway.

 

I guess we all try to figure out the cause... Was it the cup of coffee, was our work out too much,is it the cut? And it could be. But it could also...not be. Isn't that helpful ?

 

I think if we eat nutritious stuff  and if we are consistent in our taper and generally just try to exercise IF you can,( even a little walk on my drive way was exercise at times) then that's already helping a lot.

 

IMO, taking a dose a few hours later " should " not make much difference because of the long half life. But then again... I think we've seen pretty much all by now. Some people just metabolize quick and other don't and some get interdose withdrawal and others don't.

 

It could also be for the cut . Still..

Again ( sorry , it gets old) some people feel their cut in three days and other not till day 8 or 9 or...

Well, you get it.

 

I hope you'll get a window again real soon and feel better.

 

Moo

[[ed...]]

Thank you for the feedback, Moo. It means more than you know. Actually, you probably do know. So thanks again. 

 

So, as I try to figure out what stabilized means, if I have a 7 day window, then a wave, should I wait another 7 days before cutting again? Or just discount the 1 day wave as a one off and move on with my planned cut?

 

Thanks,

Ed

[[Mo...]]

Thank you for the feedback, Moo. It means more than you know. Actually, you probably do know. So thanks again. 

 

So, as I try to figure out what stabilized means, if I have a 7 day window, then a wave, should I wait another 7 days before cutting again? Or just discount the 1 day wave as a one off and move on with my planned cut?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

I think that depends on when your previous cut was.

For example.. If you usually cut every two weeks and that's tolerable for you , and it's time to cut? And you are in a wave ? Then I would not cut.

But if I felt okay a day or two later, I would.

Because a wave can come and go. It did for me at least.

 

IMO we should get rid of the calendar and go with how we feel. Of course we have a plan but if you feel bad , you can hold longer.

You don't need to go by 7 days intervals or anything. There is not rule for it 

 

For many here , we went by Etowns 80/20 : feeling 80 percent okay(ish) and 20 percent crap....that's not a bad thing at all during this process.

If it's tolerable , you're good to go. That's  my two cents,

 

I've had streaks where I kept cutting 0.5 every 17 days or so and then periods where I had to hold. Which was fairly easy for me as I did a daily liquid taper and could just stop. As opposed to cut and hold where I had already made the cut and could not take it back.

 

A planned cut doesn't do you any favors if you push through, there isn't pushing through on this stuff, I'm afraid.

This isn't a mind over matter thing. But about getting off as smooth as you can. If it takes a bit longer than you won any way

 

 

[[ed...]]

Do you feel a liquid taper is appropriate even though I'm still up at 7mg of diaz? I kind of feel like a failure if I can't get down to 5mg or so using c/h method. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

BTW, I really appreciate you taking your time with me here.

[[ar...]]

I spoke too soon this morning.  I have the inner energy/pressure feeling.  Kind of like an adrenal rush but milder and it sticks around for awhile.  I know this feeling all too well.

 

I can sit still but sometimes I want to go run to get rid of it.

[[Di...]]

Do you feel a liquid taper is appropriate even though I'm still up at 7mg of diaz? I kind of feel like a failure if I can't get down to 5mg or so using c/h method. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

BTW, I really appreciate you taking your time with me here.

 

A lot of people start a daily liquid taper on a higher dose than you are. The turning point seems to be around the 10mg mark.

 

Why does starting a daily liquid taper make you feel like a failure? Tapering isn't meant to be an endurance trial. It's very important that you taper according to your body's requirements. A daily taper will make your taper much more manageable. It's not a "slow" taper, as a lot of people think. In fact because you are cutting such tiny amounts each day, and not having to hold for extended periods like you do with a cut and hold taper, it can actually be a faster taper.

 

With a daily taper all you have to do is work out over how many days you want to reduce 1mg and then divide the 1mg by that number of days to find out how much to cut each day. Then, to work out what that would be equivalent to in liquid (either 100ml or 10ml), you multiply by that amount. So to show how what looks.... (these figures are just examples)…..

 

To reduce 1mg over 30 days …..

 

1mg ÷ 30 days = 0.03mg (rounded)

 

To calculate that as a 100ml liquid …

 

0.03mg x 100 = 3ml

 

To calculate that as a 10ml liquid …

 

0.03mg x 10 = 0.3ml

 

The most popular ways to do a liquid taper involves using full fat milk (the fat helps to suspend/dissolve the valium), 2ml of vodka for every 1mg valium and then topped up with water, or you can also get a prescription for Liquid Valium from your doctor.

 

Take a look at these links to get an idea of how a liquid daily taper is done. If you have any questions you can ask on either of those threads.

 

Valium daily taper-Milk or Liquid Valium

 

Valium daily taper-Vodka

 

 

[[Di...]]

I spoke too soon this morning.  I have the inner energy/pressure feeling.  Kind of like an adrenal rush but milder and it sticks around for awhile.  I know this feeling all too well.

 

I can sit still but sometimes I want to go run to get rid of it.

 

I'm sorry to hear that, but as you know these things do pass. It just sucks a lot until they do.

[[ed...]]

I guess I just feel that since I only started at 15mg of Diaz, I should be able to "fight through" until 5mg. But if you're telling me some people have problems with cut and hold at 10mg, that makes me feel a bit better. Do you suggest I ask the doc for a script for 1mg pills in order to be more precise with my daily taper? I presently have 2mg scored pills that don't break EXACTLY  at 50/50. I'd think 1mg pills would be better for consistencies sake as I withdraw such a precise amount from each dose.

 

Thank you,

Ed

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Do you feel a liquid taper is appropriate even though I'm still up at 7mg of diaz? I kind of feel like a failure if I can't get down to 5mg or so using c/h method. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

BTW, I really appreciate you taking your time with me here.

I started liquid tapering at 14 mgr and I felt much better for it.

It's been compared to taking the stairs ( cut and hold method ) to escalators ( daily taper ).

 

Why would you feel like a failure ? Hundreds of here are doing a daily liquid taper. They are definitely warriors in my book, not failures !

 

I cut 0.05 mgr a day, which added up to 0.5 every ten days. But I did holds on bad days. So I can down to about 17 days for 0.5 mgr.

Thing is. When I cut 0.5 mgr dry I couldn't tolerate it. And I don't mean that I felt a bit bad, but I mean I was bedridden during those waves. And I'm not a weak person by any means.

 

So, in fact, using my daily taper I was able to go faster than I would have on cut and hold, because it would take me a lot of time between cuts to recuperate from the previous cut. So much so that I had to wait much longer to cut again than I did on liquid.

 

You only replace 0.5 or 1 mgr of your dose for liquid and taper with that.

 

You will know for yourself what you feel comfortable with, method wise.

But no, it's definitely not weak. Daily tapering doesn't mean symptom free. But for me it meant being able to at least function .

 

 

[[Mo...]]

I spoke too soon this morning.  I have the inner energy/pressure feeling.  Kind of like an adrenal rush but milder and it sticks around for awhile.  I know this feeling all too well.

 

I can sit still but sometimes I want to go run to get rid of it.

 

Sorry Arcade...

The pressure feeling is the pits.

Are you comfy with guided meditations ? That could sometimes calm my body down ( it's proven meditation lowers cortisol: I read that today. Didn't know ).

 

Sometimes, i just wanted to run, too. But I couldn't. Then I resorted to some you tube guided stuff.

 

[[bu...]]

Do you feel a liquid taper is appropriate even though I'm still up at 7mg of diaz? I kind of feel like a failure if I can't get down to 5mg or so using c/h method. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

BTW, I really appreciate you taking your time with me here.

  I started my liquid taper at 9mg.  I could not get below 9mg doing C&H, even after 3 attempts.  I had no difficulties with the liquid taper.

 

I don't feel like a failure. 

 

This is NOT a game or a contest.

[[Mo...]]

I guess I just feel that since I only started at 15mg of Diaz, I should be able to "fight through" until 5mg. But if you're telling me some people have problems with cut and hold at 10mg, that makes me feel a bit better. Do you suggest I ask the doc for a script for 1mg pills in order to be more precise with my daily taper? I presently have 2mg scored pills that don't break EXACTLY  at 50/50. I'd think 1mg pills would be better for consistencies sake as I withdraw such a precise amount from each dose.

 

Thank you,

Ed

 

You can make liquid with two mgr pills too.

Just adjust the math.

 

no, there isn't a fighting through it. Well, in a way we all fight through it. But you'd make it harder for yourself . There is nothing WUSs about this.

A lot of people get in trouble with keeping cutting. Yup.

As you go lower in dose and keep cutting by 0.5 mgr every two weeks. Eventually your cut percentage of your dose should adjust too. Your cut gets bigger, the lower you go, percentage wise if you keep cutting same rate.

 

 

 

 

[[ar...]]

I spoke too soon this morning.  I have the inner energy/pressure feeling.  Kind of like an adrenal rush but milder and it sticks around for awhile.  I know this feeling all too well.

 

I can sit still but sometimes I want to go run to get rid of it.

 

Sorry Arcade...

The pressure feeling is the pits.

Are you comfy with guided meditations ? That could sometimes calm my body down ( it's proven meditation lowers cortisol: I read that today. Didn't know ).

 

Sometimes, i just wanted to run, too. But I couldn't. Then I resorted to some you tube guided stuff.

 

I am listening to thunderstorms on Spotify.  It's very soothing.  Thanks for the tips.  Cortisol seems to be my main s/x after the cuts catch up with me.  Lately it passes quickly.

[[Mo...]]

I spoke too soon this morning.  I have the inner energy/pressure feeling.  Kind of like an adrenal rush but milder and it sticks around for awhile.  I know this feeling all too well.

 

I can sit still but sometimes I want to go run to get rid of it.

 

Sorry Arcade...

The pressure feeling is the pits.

Are you comfy with guided meditations ? That could sometimes calm my body down ( it's proven meditation lowers cortisol: I read that today. Didn't know ).

 

Sometimes, i just wanted to run, too. But I couldn't. Then I resorted to some you tube guided stuff.

 

I am listening to thunderstorms on Spotify.  It's very soothing.  Thanks for the tips.  Cortisol seems to be my main s/x after a cut lately.  Lately it passes quickly.

 

Hooepfull it'll pass soon, yes.

Some times I wake up feeling quite normal and then 5 seconds later, there it is.

I can't stand it. That rushed pressurized feeling.

Ugh.

 

Do you sleep at all?

[[Di...]]

I guess I just feel that since I only started at 15mg of Diaz, I should be able to "fight through" until 5mg. But if you're telling me some people have problems with cut and hold at 10mg, that makes me feel a bit better. Do you suggest I ask the doc for a script for 1mg pills in order to be more precise with my daily taper? I presently have 2mg scored pills that don't break EXACTLY  at 50/50. I'd think 1mg pills would be better for consistencies sake as I withdraw such a precise amount from each dose.

 

Thank you,

Ed

 

 

 

No one who's tapering a benzo is ever a failure. It's probably one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do, and if doing a particular type of taper makes it easier to manage, then I'm all for it. There are never any prizes for fighting through the side effects.

 

2mg tablets are the smallest you can get. Mostly cutting them in half isn't a problem, but you can use the full tablet if you prefer. Instead of using 100ml or 10ml with 1mg, just increase it to 200ml or 20ml with 2mg. It's exactly the same concentration. The other alternative you have is a prescription for Liquid Valium.

[[ed...]]

Do you feel a liquid taper is appropriate even though I'm still up at 7mg of diaz? I kind of feel like a failure if I can't get down to 5mg or so using c/h method. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

BTW, I really appreciate you taking your time with me here.

I started liquid tapering at 14 mgr and I felt much better for it.

It's been compared to taking the stairs ( cut and hold method ) to escalators ( daily taper ).

 

Why would you feel like a failure ? Hundreds of here are doing a daily liquid taper. They are definitely warriors in my book, not failures !

 

I cut 0.05 mgr a day, which added up to 0.5 every ten days. But I did holds on bad days. So I can down to about 17 days for 0.5 mgr.

Thing is. When I cut 0.5 mgr dry I couldn't tolerate it. And I don't mean that I felt a bit bad, but I mean I was bedridden during those waves. And I'm not a weak person by any means.

 

So, in fact, using my daily taper I was able to go faster than I would have on cut and hold, because it would take me a lot of time between cuts to recuperate from the previous cut. So much so that I had to wait much longer to cut again than I did on liquid.

 

You only replace 0.5 or 1 mgr of your dose for liquid and taper with that.

 

You will know for yourself what you feel comfortable with, method wise.

But no, it's definitely not weak. Daily tapering doesn't mean symptom free. But for me it meant being able to at least function .

 

Brilliant. Thank you. Hopefully, I can get through today (or how many days this wave takes) and start the daily liquid taper.  I had already read D-Pam's instruction thread and purchased 10ml and 1ml syringes and a 100ml container. Just need the good doc's script for 1mg Diaz tablets. I'd feel better having the exact 1mg dose rather than breaking the scored 2mg tabs i currently use.

 

Thanks,

Ed

[[ed...]]

Do you feel a liquid taper is appropriate even though I'm still up at 7mg of diaz? I kind of feel like a failure if I can't get down to 5mg or so using c/h method. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

BTW, I really appreciate you taking your time with me here.

  I started my liquid taper at 9mg.  I could not get below 9mg doing C&H, even after 3 attempts.  I had no difficulties with the liquid taper.

 

I don't feel like a failure. 

 

This is NOT a game or a contest.

 

Thank you for this input. It is invaluable and gives me great hope.

[[ar...]]

I spoke too soon this morning.  I have the inner energy/pressure feeling.  Kind of like an adrenal rush but milder and it sticks around for awhile.  I know this feeling all too well.

 

I can sit still but sometimes I want to go run to get rid of it.

 

Sorry Arcade...

The pressure feeling is the pits.

Are you comfy with guided meditations ? That could sometimes calm my body down ( it's proven meditation lowers cortisol: I read that today. Didn't know ).

 

Sometimes, i just wanted to run, too. But I couldn't. Then I resorted to some you tube guided stuff.

 

I am listening to thunderstorms on Spotify.  It's very soothing.  Thanks for the tips.  Cortisol seems to be my main s/x after a cut lately.  Lately it passes quickly.

 

Hooepfull it'll pass soon, yes.

Some times I wake up feeling quite normal and then 5 seconds later, there it is.

I can't stand it. That rushed pressurized feeling.

Ugh.

 

Do you sleep at all?

 

Fortunately I can sleep about 6 to 7 hours.  It all depends on when it happens but rarely am I up all night lately.  In the higher doses I had trouble with sleep.

 

I agree the internal pressure feeling is annoying.  I can cope most of the time but sometimes it can get to me.  Looking forward to my adrenals working properly sometime soon.  The cocktail does not work for me.

[[Mo...]]

Do you feel a liquid taper is appropriate even though I'm still up at 7mg of diaz? I kind of feel like a failure if I can't get down to 5mg or so using c/h method. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

BTW, I really appreciate you taking your time with me here.

I started liquid tapering at 14 mgr and I felt much better for it.

It's been compared to taking the stairs ( cut and hold method ) to escalators ( daily taper ).

 

Why would you feel like a failure ? Hundreds of here are doing a daily liquid taper. They are definitely warriors in my book, not failures !

 

I cut 0.05 mgr a day, which added up to 0.5 every ten days. But I did holds on bad days. So I can down to about 17 days for 0.5 mgr.

Thing is. When I cut 0.5 mgr dry I couldn't tolerate it. And I don't mean that I felt a bit bad, but I mean I was bedridden during those waves. And I'm not a weak person by any means.

 

So, in fact, using my daily taper I was able to go faster than I would have on cut and hold, because it would take me a lot of time between cuts to recuperate from the previous cut. So much so that I had to wait much longer to cut again than I did on liquid.

 

You only replace 0.5 or 1 mgr of your dose for liquid and taper with that.

 

You will know for yourself what you feel comfortable with, method wise.

But no, it's definitely not weak. Daily tapering doesn't mean symptom free. But for me it meant being able to at least function .

 

Brilliant. Thank you. Hopefully, I can get through today (or how many days this wave takes) and start the daily liquid taper.  I had already read D-Pam's instruction thread and purchased 10ml and 1ml syringes and a 100ml container. Just need the good doc's script for 1mg Diaz tablets. I'd feel better having the exact 1mg dose rather than breaking the scored 2mg tabs i currently use.

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

Yeah, if you're more comfortable using 1 mgr tabs then please do. Whatever makes it easier. It's hard enough as it is to deal with the symptoms and whatever other worries you can take away, I'm all for it.

 

Lots of people use Diaz's method

 

I hope you feel better soon. Open windows !

[[ed...]]

 

 

 

No one who's tapering a benzo is ever a failure. It's probably one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do, and if doing a particular type of taper makes it easier to manage, then I'm all for it. There are never any prizes for fighting through the side effects.

 

2mg tablets are the smallest you can get. Mostly cutting them in half isn't a problem, but you can use the full tablet if you prefer. Instead of using 100ml or 10ml with 1mg, just increase it to 200ml or 20ml with 2mg. It's exactly the same concentration. The other alternative you have is a prescription for Liquid Valium.

 

I see. I guess I'll just cut them in half then. I feel like I'd be wasting too much of a 2mg pill once I started extracting more than half of a 200ml solution and discarding it.

[[Mo...]]

 

 

 

No one who's tapering a benzo is ever a failure. It's probably one of the hardest things you'll ever have to do, and if doing a particular type of taper makes it easier to manage, then I'm all for it. There are never any prizes for fighting through the side effects.

 

2mg tablets are the smallest you can get. Mostly cutting them in half isn't a problem, but you can use the full tablet if you prefer. Instead of using 100ml or 10ml with 1mg, just increase it to 200ml or 20ml with 2mg. It's exactly the same concentration. The other alternative you have is a prescription for Liquid Valium.

 

I see. I guess I'll just cut them in half then. I feel like I'd be wasting too much of a 2mg pill once I started extracting more than half of a 200ml solution and discarding it.

 

You don't need to discard it. You can save it for the next day.

 

Also,  I don't think you'd be in trouble breaking your tabs in half, since you'd use the other half the next day and Valium should be long acting enoug to just even that out...

 

 

[[ed...]]

Thank you guys and gals. I'm so thankful to have this board to turn to. Hopefully, I'll be able to return the favor to a newbie once I have some time under my belt.

 

Thanks,

Ed