Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[et...]]

Wiser does that mean you are going to wait to taper the Benzos?

etown

[[Sm...]]

Wiser there are a few people who tapered SSRIs before benzos and most I think have, or wish they had, waited till the SSRI withdrawal was settled before trying benzos. Having said that the tolerance withdrawal you are experiencing from benzos will make the recovery from SSRI withdrawal harder. Tough

 

Okatz: I'm in the weeds but not tooo bad. I'm bad at times and fine others mostly due to things that dont include my taper or benzos. I'm not in the weeds because of micro-tapering. I started holding 4 days ago so I wasn't pushing through. I'm in the weeds because of other things: anti asthma meds and supplements.

Honestly I would hate cut and hold. Even if I knew that hit was coming I'd hate every moment of it. I just can't see myself ever getting used to that horrible feeling. If you catch things early enough with micro-taper things resolve in a few days so you don't end up any deeper in the weeds than the alternative. If you are as slow as some around you virtually never get caught out.

 

concerned: I know you want to get things moving but if you are already symptomatic enough to be feeling anxiety now I'd say 0.05mg cut is too much for this second half of that mg. I couldn't do a 0.05mg cut between 8-7 without anxiety. Anxiety is for me anyway is the symptom that is closest to everything spiralling out of control. If anxiety is hitting full benzo w/d aint far away.

 

Just as an aside out of interest:

I tried today going without asthma meds but then had trouble breathing so took it but then got w/ds. So again I'm back at the choice between breathing and w/ds.

 

[[co...]]

Wisernow, Are you done with your lexapro withdrawal? I tapered off of 10mg of lexapro from about march through august, reducing it at 5% every 2 weeks. I took me a few months afterwards to feel back to normal and I don't feel it is affecting me any longer as I tapered off of it slowly. I only started the crossover from Ativan to Valium when that was finished. Serax is  medium acting Benzo and is a metabolite of Diazepam. Diazepam is longer acting and it should be easier to taper from that as long as you do it slowly. You would need to crossover to it when you are ready to start. It took me 6-8 weeks to stabilize on Diazepam once I crossed over from ativan which is also a medium acting benzo.  I had to updose by .5mg. Eventually I felt stable and then began  daily micro taper from Diazepam.

 

I was also unclear if you are starting your taper now or waiting a bit longer to feel better after the lexapro withdrawal. I don't know how long it took you to taper off of Lexapro however it is difficult to get off of it unless you go very slowly. I think you can feel better much earlier then 2 years once you have stopped assuming you did not taper too quickly down.

 

Concerned

 

[[jj...]]

etown, how have you been finding the Trazadone? Do you think that it's been helpful? Did it have any effect on your w/d sx when you started it? I'm thinking about asking my pdoc about it if I'm not sleeping any better soon.

[[co...]]

Smiff, I am not reducing by .05 daily. I reduced from 8mg to 7.5mg at about .03 daily, sometimes .02. I started t taper on 12/16/13 and I arrived at 7.5mg just yesterday on 01/02/14. I am planning to hold 7.5mg for another few days to see how I feel. I don't feel anxiety all day long, only when I am in need of another dose. I always stay within my dose limit as I write down how many times I take a small dose during the day. I often take only 2mg every 3-4 hours and sometimes 1mg for 2-3 hours. Some days I barely feel it and other days more so.

 

When i start to taper again maybe next week, I will begin with .02 daily and if I have no symptoms after a week, I will go up to .03 and see if I can handle that. Do you feel zero symptoms every day or do you also have some mild symptoms that don't interfere with your functioning. Headaches and neck/shoulder pain indicate to me I am in more serious withdrawal however the miler symptoms come and go and usually go away whenever I just take the next dose. I hope that is clearer, Concerned

[[et...]]

JJ - Trazodone has been a game changer for me. If I can sleep everything is better

etown

[[co...]]

JJ, I went on trazadone when I was prescribed lexapro as i could not sleep on it. I take 50mg st night for sleep. I tapered off of Lexapro however I will stay on trazadone as it works for me and as it is not a benzo. I will stay on it till I finish my Diazepam taper. I also take some natural sleep supplements like tryptophan, melatonin as sleep is important and if I eventually do get insomnia, I want all the help I can to make sure I sleep so I can function all day at work. It is a low dose for trazadone and when I finish my Diazepam taper, I will go off of that as well. I believe in doing one medications at a time. Concerned

[[Sm...]]

oh ok Sorry Concerned I thought I saw you were thinking of picking it up to 0.05. All good

 

Okatz: I forgot to say before my current dose is on my ticker

[[co...]]

Smiff, I did question that a long time ago however I decided it was to much of a cut for me. I did notice in your profile that you tapered .03 between 8-7 and now .04 between 7 and 6. Can you handle the .04 now more then you were able to earlier? In any case, if you feel ok then that is all that counts, Concerened

[[hu...]]

My pdoc just rxed clonidine to help w/ blood pressure and some of the night sweats, hp that I've been having at night. Does anyone have any experience w/ this drug?

 

JJ, I found that Clonidine helped me more with sleep than any med I've ever taken. The strange thing is that I could build up almost a complete tolerance within three nights! So when I had terrible insomnia during Lexapro w/d, I took Clonidine about once every 4 or 5 nights and, at least, knew I could count on a great night's sleep on those nights.

[[J-...]]

Hi,

 

I need something desperately for sleep. We don't have Trazadone here in Aus

So does anyone know the closest thing to it?  Would it be remeron?

 

Been using antihistamines way too long now and starting to have negative affects so

Need an alternative.

 

Thanks,

J-Bird

[[dr...]]

As I slowly come out of this wave I just realized I was trying to fight every symptom instead of just accepting them as part of my withdrawal. I haven't had a wave like that in a while so I forgot the coping mechanism of acceptance. 

[[wi...]]

I don't know what to do about my 2 x benzo situation.  Whether to deal only with the valium as only been on it a short time. 

 

I did not taper off Lexapro.  I dropped from 10mg to 5mg in April, within a few weeks i experienced bad anxiety.  I increased back to 10mg but the anxiety remained.    I didn't know the SSRI's could cause long term withdrawal problems.

 

I was changed to Paxil in November but after 4 weeks of severe side effects I stopped taking it.    I tried to reinstate Lexapro but my system was in distress by then so am in process of stopping Lexapo as felt really ill on 5mgs.  So I have to wait out the w/d of no taper from Lexapro.    Lots  of people run in to these problems on SSRI's.  I'm not alone by any stretch.    The body seems to reach a point where it can't tolerate them any more.

 

My personality has gone from active and social to withdrawn and afraid of going out, afraid of heights, confined spaces, new places etc etc.  I'm having a fear reaction to many normal things.  In order to avoid anxiety I avoid doing most of the things I once loved to do!!!    It's a seretonin problem in my brain.

 

Hence valium use.    Hence dependance.    I have to wean off the daily valium but what to do about the nightly Serax?  I just don't know.  I'm posting on Paxilprogress and they say to wean off one drug at a time.  The average time frame for recovery from c/t off a/ds is two years.    The brain is altered by anti depressants and takes that long to fix itself.  Some have waited 4 yrs to feel completely healed.    And no matter how terrible a prospect that may be I want to stay away from taking more mind altering drugs.   

 

Just wondered whether I could wean off both benzo's while all this is going on?  Not even sure I could tolerate so much valium to be honest.

[[wi...]]

human11 you c/d off lexapro?  How long was the bad w/d?

 

remeron?    I heard it can be as difficult to come off as benzo's. 

[[Di...]]

Hi,

 

I need something desperately for sleep. We don't have Trazadone here in Aus

So does anyone know the closest thing to it?  Would it be remeron?

 

Been using antihistamines way too long now and starting to have negative affects so

Need an alternative.

 

Thanks,

J-Bird

 

I don't think it matters too much that Trazadone isn't available in Aust, and Remeron seems to be one that some people have issues with. For me, the problem is sleep, not anxiety or depression, but the amitriptyline AD called Endep (which is readily available in Aust) in a low dose, on an "as required" basis, has been very helpful, in addition to using doxylamine on a rotating basis when needed. I feel Endep it is an under-recommended sleep aid on BB.

[[jj...]]

etown and human, thanks that was very helpful.

 

I'm trying the Clonidine tonight, human, so I hope I get a similar effect. One of the "uncommon" side effects of that drug is (...drumroll...) anxiety which would not be particularly helpful at this point. So I'm glad you say it helped.

 

etown, good to know that Trazadone was a game changer for you, getting a good night's sleep may just keep me functional, my pdoc mentioned it once but I'm so gun shy now from medications, I was too nervous to try it.

 

concerned, I tried melatonin and it made my sx much much worse, horrible brain zaps all night. It's crazy what works for some and hurts others. There is no rhyme or reason to any of this.

[[co...]]

I know several people who could not successfully cold turkey off of lexapro. They either had to go back to full original dose and taper very slowly or switch to Prozac as that is the closest medication to lexapro and is longer acting and much easier to  taper off of it. I suggest you look into taking Prozac at a similar dose of where you began on lexapro and then weaning gradually off of prozac slowly. You need to get your life back to normal and lexapro withdrawal is the worst if not tapered slowly and even with a slow taper it is not easy. Prozac is much easier. It comes in liquid form so you can taper of that at .5mg at a time very 2 weeks or 1mg if you can tolerate it. I would start very slowly as you have developed a sensitivity by now.

 

I would first address that and then deal with the valium and Serax later for whatever it is worth as Lexapro in particular can be brutal if not tapered correctly. Both Lexparo and Paxil are the hardest SSRI's to withdraw from. Quality of life is most important and you have lost yours due to the quick lexapro withdrawal. Concerned

[[co...]]

jj, I would be careful with clonodine as many have reported a hard time getting off of it with severe anxiety.

 

Tryptophan, melatonin, theanine and seriphous and trazadone all help me sleep with no negative reactions, however we are all different and so we each have to find what helps us the most.

 

Hope you find a sleep medication in Australia that is not a problem for a Benzo taper. Maybe Endep is worth looking into, Concerned

[[jj...]]

For those of you who are doing a daily taper, do you have to throw away part of the dose? Or can you do it in a way that doesn't waste any of the medicine?

[[Sm...]]

Concerned: The answer to whether I'm handling the 0.04 change is I don't know yet. I'll probably have to cut it back. I'm having trouble right at this minute but it is from a lot of things that I haven't fully worked out yet: mainly other drugs - particularly anti-asthma-meds not necessarily my cut rate. Once that is settled down I'll restart my taper. I'll probably start slower since I'm just coming out of a bad patch.

 

J-Bird: Mitrazepine (US Remeron) and Amitriptiline (Endep) are the main AD sleepers in Aus. Your psych will probably suggest seroquel because they are handing that out like candy right now for sleep. Endep gives me anxiety but it has helped DP greatly. And I'm already on an SSRI so I'm likely to get weird reactions from chucking another AD in there. Endep is less an intense drug than Remeron or Seroquel in my experience so I'd give it a go before remeron/mitrazepine because like someone said before it has a history of being difficult to withdraw from. This is a little left field but Estrogen is a pretty amazing sleep aid. It also really helps with benzo w/d. You might want to get your levels checked via a blood test and/or if you have a Dr like mine who is happy to prescribe low dose patches of the stuff based on symptoms.

 

JJ: Glad you got your compound liquid and a supportive Dr. It feels good to be on your way and getting your head around your new normal

 

xx

[[Sm...]]

For those of you who are doing a daily taper, do you have to throw away part of the dose? Or can you do it in a way that doesn't waste any of the medicine?

 

I throw away part of my dose unless it is toward the end of the mg then I take the smaller amount and keep the remaining (I don't do this often or for very long because I have a 3 year old daughter and I don't want her to get access to this stuff)

[[ja...]]

Can anyone explain why the crossover from Xanax to Valium is so difficult if they are such similar drugs, and how do the two drugs differ in their action inside the body?

[[Sn...]]

Thank you to Etown,Carita,Drew,Smiff Diaz-Pam and anyone else who has answered my post.

 

I am feeling rather unwell at present and using the computer is making my head feel worse, so please don't think I am not heeding what you say.  I will come back when I feel a bit better and give you more information.  I will try not to get too anxious.  Snow White.

[[Wo...]]

Bird - I agree with Smiff totally. I do believe in most cases there is a stable dose of Valium. I don't know exactly why you didn't stabilize at 20mg. Maybe not enough hold time maybe the other drugs maybe this maybe that. The fact is until you stabilize you are probably going to extend your taper with one brain attack after another and have waves and windows and on and on. You have to be committed to do whatever it takes to minimize the suffering. Your husband will have to get with the program and help you do what is right for you or do what a lot of spouses do and play a minor role. I have taken complete control of my taper. I begged my wife to help me when I was experiencing a dark time like you are in and I know now I was expecting way to much from her. I forgive her for not having the capacity to understand so I took the ball, got stable and now she asks me stuff because I leave her out of it as much as possible. I am functioning so we are functioning period. Tough pill to swallow but I've already digested it! I will do whatever it takes to minimize the symptoms of Benzo withdrawal and that's that. Say that 100's of times over and over and the sun will come up on your taper. Ask Okatz and Colorado to name a few. And even me. Learn the hard way but learn once!

etown

 

Yup, ditto what etown said. I had to take control. My husband had no clue the suffering I was enduring. Somehow I found my way out of total chaos and complete suicidal hell. Once I stabilized and could think straight then we were all able to move forward. I leave him out of it, I am functioning and have things under control so that's all anyone needs to know right now. You can do this!

[[wi...]]

Concerned said:::::. I suggest you look into taking Prozac at a similar dose of where you began on lexapro and then weaning gradually off of prozac slowly. You need to get your life back to normal and lexapro withdrawal is the worst if not tapered slowly and even with a slow taper it is not easy. Prozac is much easier. It comes in liquid form so you can taper of that at .5mg at a time very 2 weeks or 1mg if you can tolerate it. I would start very slowly as you have developed a sensitivity by now.

 

 

Hi Concerned,  Big thank you for your advice.  Yes I'm having a truely horrible time.  Every day I feel I can't go on like this.  Would prozac negate the W/D symptoms I'm having from Lexapro?    I've never heard that Prozac is the closest drug to Lexapro.    Does prozac have hash start up symptoms like lexapro and paxil?    I'd gobble down anything that might help if my body would let me.    I'm celiac which doesn't help.  I've had two months of chopping and changing resulting in a fragile GI tract.    Not sure what dose prozac i would need to equal 10mgs of lexapro.      To make matters worse it's only in the last few days that I've realised that I have to take valium every day.    I don't have an unlimited supply so have been cutting back on it so have new symptoms of w/d from it.  Just feel as if the universe is conspiring against me.    My poor husband is looking very sorry for himself.  He's lost his cheerful companion in recent months.   

 

::::: Both Lexparo and Paxil are the hardest SSRI's to withdraw from. Quality of life is most important and you have lost yours due to the quick lexapro withdrawal. Concerned

 

Big thank you for your input.....