The Klonopin Klub

[[In...]]

Well folks,

 

I've been saying on  other threads that I dislike having my brain in a prescription bottle.

 

That has never gotten much response from anyone, for whatever reason, but it's true.

 

Our brains (GABA system and much of CNS) are essentially there, and I am appalled by that since I became benzowise.

 

So that's the "battle;" to take back by gradual repair of this situation. I'm not as nervous as I was yesterday; in fact a little depressed. The weekend and work loom for me, so I'm forging ahead.

 

Intend

[[li...]]

Thank you, Rek! 

 

Being gentle on myself, but strong against 'the system' does seem to be what works for me these days LOL 

 

I feel very encouraged by your kind words ..... thanks 

 

Lizie

[[re...]]

"Brain in a prescription bottle"--I like that, Intend.  I mean, not the reality it refers to, obviously, but that expression of it: very apt.  Sorta conjures up uncomfortable images involving formaldehyde--YEEKS!--but we don't really need to go there, do we?  The good thing is you can still get your brain back OUT of that #@$%& prescription bottle, and by george you will, you will, you will!

 

Lizie, thanks for your response!  Keep up the gentleness . . . and the strength!

 

We shall overcome.

 

Peace again,

 

Rek

[[ja...]]

Waking up at 5:00 AM in a sweat with horrible nightmares of losing my husband. Like, literally. Managed to go back to sleep somehow, woke at 6:30 AM.

 

I'm in trouble, guys. I need help. For the first time in over 6 months, I'm contemplating going back on some kind of anti-anxiety medication because I just can't take my situation anymore. For 8 hours every day I am literally in hell. I feel like monsters are picking at me and I'm running around trying to find my head, not to mention the PTSD that's going to come on when I get to leave this job. I know that situations like this are what makes us initially go on a drug and God knows I want to be out of this misery. I need help and suggestions so I don't go back on. I can't quit my job because that's where we get our health insurance, and if I just quit we would have to get the insurance anyway, or be taxed with the new government mandate.

 

I am desperately trying to find a new job and at this point I will take anything, even a large pay cut, as long as health is covered. I've lost everything at the job I have now, most importantly a feeling of self-worth.

 

We're at a bed and breakfast in Philly right now, in a featherbed (and I still had nightmares) and we're going to my nephew's 4th birthday party today. That little sunshine boy always cheers me up. We got him Chutes and Ladders, Junior Boggle, a gift certificate to Toys R Us and a card with 2-dollar bills and dollar coins. We're a crazy Aunt and Uncle - we don't have kids of our own so we dote and dote.

 

I'm so sorry I don't have the energy to address all of you today. Just know that I really, really care - those of you who know me well know that it's true, I hope. I'm literally dragging my feet today and I look in the mirror and see this fat woman. I don't know how that happened either.

 

Take care, guys. I'll keep checking in.

 

 

[[re...]]

Oh, Jax, I'm so sorry--you are in a really painful place.  I was wondering, when we didn't hear from you yesterday, how things were going--I was hoping it was just the trip to Philadelphia that took you offline, but it sounds as though it was more than that.  Clearly a big part of what is so oppressive for you right now is the job-from-hell, and I really sympathize, because my husband has gone through this kind of thing for years at a time: being in a job situation where supervisors treating people like dirt seemed to be the standard MO, but feeling trapped in the job, because leaving would be too risky.  The distress this caused him was so palpable it was almost like a housemate, a whole separate person living in our household.  He moved around several times within the company, and has finally landed up in a position that feels better, where he's treated decently and with respect, but this is after years of chafing under extreme workplace stupidity and meanness, plus he doesn't know for sure that his present situation will last, so even now there's stress.  But to come back to you and your struggle--I hear how strong the temptation is to go back to some kind of medication that could just blunt the anxiety, nightmares, and everything that's making you unhappy right now; I also hear how badly you don't want to give in to that impulse.  If it helps, try to remember how grateful you were to retrieve the OTHER feelings that ALSO get blunted by taking medication: like the simple sensory pleasures you've described to us so inspiringly in some of your posts.  Somewhere underneath it all, you seem to have a vein of strength and hope that you've been able to tap at times when you needed it--I hope somehow that this is still available to you, even if for the moment you're having some trouble locating it.  Perhaps the visit with your sweet nephew will help?  It sounds like a happy occasion, at any rate, and perhaps it will take you out of that dark place for long enough to help you relocate your core, and the stability that's in it--I'm convinced that stable core is still there in you, however much it may feel at the moment as though it's gone AWOL.

 

As for the weight--well, you are far from alone with that, as many of the posts at BenzoBuddies generally, and the Klonopin Klub specifically, attest.  It's a double-whammy, because if you're already feeling defeated, then you can so easily start feeling bad about yourself on that front, too, and it just sort of compounds everything.  I'm not great at advising on this point; it's certainly the case that I've had body-image issues all my life, and had an eating disorder in my teens and early twenties, but I can't plausibly claim to have a true weight issue now--at the same time, I do quite viscerally relate to that problem of looking in the mirror, not liking what one sees, and translating that into not liking one's whole SELF.  The only answer I've ever been able to come up with is to stay as active as possible, whether or not that meant I actually lost weight.  I think physical activity can make you feel empowered, and help draw attention away from how you feel about your appearance.  Partly it's endorphins at work, I presume, and partly it's the sheer psychological benefit of getting up and moving around.  Does this make sense?

 

Finally, there is a movie you should perhaps see, in part because the heroines--women you end up adoring by the end of the film--are for the most part not these Hollywood sylphs you want to kill for being so slim, so Barbie-doll glamorous (UGH!)--they are zaftig beauties, incredibly strong and inspiring.  I should warn you, it's pretty liberal in its outlook--just to give you one example, not all the relationships portrayed are heterosexual.  It's a Dutch film, subtitled in English: Antonia's Line is the title in English.  If you think it sounds like your cup of tea, then maybe you could watch it and just enjoy the escape.  It has a bittersweet ending, but I think on the whole it leaves you feeling good.

 

Take care, my friend, and please let us know how you are.  I hope right now you're having fun with your nephew!

 

Peace,

 

Rek

[[li...]]

A few questions for those who are on Klonopin/clonazepam, tapering clonazepam, or have managed to withdraw from clonazepam.

 

A little background: I was put on it for its muscle relaxant properties, and to a lesser extent neuropathic pain. These are no longer issues that bother me.

 

Lots of attempts to withdraw, the whole process has been devastating to my health.

 

And just 'go slower' won't work, the stuff is too disruptive and it doesn't always have the same effect -not tolerance ! Perhaps even some paradoxical effects, it has both sedating and stimulating properties, partly related to exercise.

 

Aside from insomnia (the real killer), the main effects that bother me are neurological but probably even more so the endocrine and metabolical effects of the withdrawal process, or even the drug itself ! (Amongst other things, massive weight loss: loss of total fat but gain of visceral fat, major muscle catabolism, intolerance to exercise). I have pre-existing insomnia, not psychological in nature.

 

It has been supplied by my GP who has continued repeat prescriptions initiated by a specialist who I haven't seen in a very long time. Here, you can't just visit a specialist but you need a referral !

My GP has not been accomodating. I may be able to force the issue but what I'd end up with ...

 

To the point:

 

Questions about your experiences: how long till you feel the onset of your dose, and when do you feel the peak effect ?

The drug really seems to activate the parasympathetic nervous system (not necessarily a good thing), without inducing sleep.

 

Sort of: if I don't take it I can't sleep, if I take it it disrupts sleep !

 

Aside from taking nothing, switching to Valium, going slow, splitting doses (I can't seem to tolerate that), did you take anything for sleep ? If so, what did you take and what kind of doctor did prescribe that drug ? Unfortunately, the antihistamine  effects of all sorts of supposedly sedating drugs are mostly lost on me and I'd rather not take an antidepressant or antipsychotic - but at this point I'm willing to consider it !

 

I read somewhere that Klonopin supposedly is a very strong 'HPA antagonist'.

Well, it's an awful drug.

 

I think I have some dysautonomia.

[[re...]]

Hi, Liberty -

 

You are in one of those clonazepam catch-22 situations, of which there seem to be myriad variations.  I can tell you about my experience, in case it offers any perspective or suggests things for you to try.  At the end of last May I was given a prescription for clonazepam because, as a consequence of a type of neuropathic pain, I had entirely stopped sleeping.  In the short term, the clonazepam solved the sleep problem, although not without backlash: grogginess the following day, etc.  If I had known what the longer-term effects of this drug were to be, I think I would have held out for a better solution, desperate though I was.  I never took more than one mg per day, but I got hooked very quickly, and began to develop weird symptoms, both psychological and physical (severe anxiety, intense body pain--in the joints, muscles, and bones--and strange burning sensations under random patches of skin).  I had been told that you have to taper off clonazepam, but had been given no information as to how to do this, so the tapers I did--three of them, before I finally got the third one (by main force, it seemed) to work, were really rapid: 1 mg for five to seven days, .75 for a few days, .5 for a few days, then .25 for a few days, and off.  On attempt #3 I jumped straight from .5 mg.  I pretty much knew it was going to be hell, but by then I also felt that I was just going to have to ride it out.  I did--the first week or so was horrific, the subsequent week a little more bearable, and after that I began to be able to imagine what it might be like to feel something like normal again.  Sleep was the biggest issue for me, and I tried all sorts of things, some of which may not have been the best choices, but at the same time I think some of them did help.  Kavinace plus melatonin is controversial, because it works on the gaba receptors, and some theories suggest that you should leave the gaba receptors entirely alone while you're in withdrawal.  But I think this over-the-counter combination remedy helped at least a little bit to get me over the insomnia hump.  I only used this for about three successive nights--the fourth night the remedy didn't seem to help, so after that I stopped using it regularly, and just took it once in a while.  Now--a bit over three months out from the last time I took any benzodiazepine or Z-drug--I am trying to avoid taking anything at all, except herbal teas (ginger, in particular) and warm milk (whether fat-free dairy or soy), both of which seem to have a soothing effect, whether I take them at bedtime or to alleviate middle-of-the-night wakefulness when I've woken and can't get back to sleep.  During my clonazepam withdrawal last summer I also signed up for a meditation class, to learn and practice mindfulness meditation.  I believe this helped me over the transition and that it can, if I keep it up, make a permanent difference to my life IN GENERAL.  I believe it can help me live and sleep in healthier ways.  So I very strongly recommend it, if it's something you feel you might be able to do.

 

I don't know whether any of this is helpful to you.  I confess to being a little unsure about what you want to do--are you trying to do a fast taper?  You said something about how slowing down won't work, but I'm not totally clear what you meant by that.  At any rate, I do want you to know that it is possible to kick this stuff, although unfortunately there seems, for most people, to be no easy way to do it. 

 

One last thing.  I do not trust doctors at all when it comes to these drugs.  Whether or not they have my best interests at heart, they do not--as far as I'm concerned--behave as if they did.  They behave as if they were perfectly ignorant of what these drugs do to people. Whether they really are, or whether they are disingenuous--just going along with the pharmaceutical companies that want to sell more and more and more of this junk--it doesn't matter; I can't forgive, must less trust, either ignorance or disingenuousness. So on this subject I turn to other sources for help and advice.  Now, it may be that SOME doctors ARE responsible and trustworthy.  Not mine, though, and I think one does have to proceed with caution when dealing with doctors generally.

 

So.  I hope this gives you at least a bit of useful insight--keep us posted.

 

Peace,

 

Rek

[[De...]]

Hi Liberty,

 

Welcome to the Klub.  I can tell you that it takes six days before my withdrawal sxs peak after making a cut - but this depends on what half life the drug has for you.  For some it's shorter, for some it's longer.

 

I haven't read that benzos are HPA antagonists, although it wouldn't surprise me.  Their most important mechanism of action is as GABA receptor agonists.  I'm not sure how much knowing this helps - the sxs are there regardless.  I also know that they significantly depreciate the quality of sleep... so it's a catch 22.  You can't sleep without them and the sleep you get with them is crappy.

 

There are several things that help me to sleep, although my situation is somewhat unique.  I've found Kavinace and Vistaril to be the most helpful, but I'm also on hormone replacement therapy - taking hormones has significantly improved my sleep quality.  I also take melatonin and 5HTP.  I had my neurotransmitters tested, which is why I take Kavinace and melatonin.  I would talk to a doctor first, even though they're OTC.  For Vistaril you need a prescription.  The antihistamine drugs have always helped me to get to sleep, although I know Benadryl depreciates sleep quality as well.  I haven't found anything to say Vistaril does, nor has my psychiatrist.

 

I'm seeing a psychiatrist to manage my withdrawal from Klonopin and to prescribe my Vistaril.  A naturopathic doctor tested my neurotransmitters, and I see a nurse who specializes in hormones for HRT.

 

 

Jax... hang in there.  I wish I was where you're at.  Rek is absolutely right about staying active.  Exercise has been shown to promote neurogenesis - the growth of new brain cells.  I know it helps with upgrading receptors.  I always feel better after a work out and if I stay distracted, I don't think about the sxs and they don't bother me.  Sleep is a tough one.  It's my weakness and the reason I'm on this drug, but exercise helps with sleep as well. 

 

If I could quit taking K without entering into the seventh circle of hell, I would.

[[Sk...]]

Starting my taper tomprrow!!  Going down from 2mg/day to 1.75.  I am looking forward to it!  Bleasings and peace to the klonopin klub!

 

-SkyZone-

[[In...]]

I'm just entering this conversation to say that I'm trying to get onto K so I can taper it and get off benzos completely.

 

I feel that there is a "prejudice" against klonopin (not within this group necessarily), but here on BB, as I'm reading here and there of the "horrors" of getting off of it. Well, I plan on micro tapering it when I'm fully on it and my doses are evened up. It was the longer half life Rxed for me, and I have to make this work or at least try. If there is a problem  with it, I tend to think that part of the issue is that the pills are so hard to cut.

 

It's hard to get real low on them and thus I believe one must use a scale or liquid titration to get off if you have been on any length of time. And thus, I think, after cutting as low as possible (not very low really on these pills), people just jump and experience many problems. But this is just my opinion.

 

I have not found that i sleep better on K at all than when I took Xanax. I seem to fall asleep faster, but dont sleep as soundly and wake up earlier. There is nothing here that makes me want to be on this any longer than I must, but I always wonder if I can truly get off considering how long I've been on benzos. But il going to try a real  microtaper and do my best. I don't know yet what will happen to my sleep as I always was a very light sleeper before benzos.

 

Jax, I hope you stay off. Sometimes these drugs don't work as well when you try them again, and then you're stuck with a taper again with it being harder. I know you didn't really taper, but I just can't see where these drugs are an answer. This new healthcare law will have some changes at the first of the year. I'm not sure what they are completely, but there are exchanges being set up, and supplementation help for many. You just should stay off because it seems you have done rather well.

 

Well, I'm working again tomorrow, getting up at 4:30 am. It's 8:15 pm now.

 

Intend

[[Sk...]]

I have some support for my taper plan to get off of klonopin and some that do not support it.  I am going to focus on the ones that support me, since I feel this plan to be the one I choose and only I can choose one.  I am going to taper, starting tomorrow from 2mg/day to 1.75 and hold that dose for 30 days and then cut another 0.25 each 30 days.  I know I might go through some withdraw symptoms but this is how I want it to be and I respect other people's opinions but have made up my mind.  I would appreciate it if others would respect my decision. 

 

-SkyZone-

[[In...]]

Sky zone,

 

Do you feel others are failing to respect your decision on your taper plans?

 

If so, why?

 

Intend

[[Sk...]]

Sky zone,

 

Do you feel others are failing to respect your decision on your taper plans?

 

If so, why?

 

Intend

 

I do feel that many other members are failing to respect my decisions on my taper method/plan and feel I am being pushed into doing something else or titrating or other suggestions that I truly feel are being forced upon me, not specifically on this thread, but all throughout the benzobuddies forum.  I have made a decent decision for myself and have taken all opinions into consideration as well.  I just would like some respect on my decision.  That's shouldn't be too much to ask.

 

-SkyZone-

[[re...]]

SkyZone, I hope you can continue to feel comfortable here, and generally supported.  I think we all want to see you succeed with your taper in what ever way feels best to you.  One thing perhaps ALL of us need to remember here is that this format can carry some of the same risks that e-mail  notoriously does, namely that we can't see each other's faces or pick up non-verbal cues, so it's a little too easy to misunderstand what someone says or means, or to get off on a wrong track because one word was misinterpreted, or something like that.  This is not to minimize your feelings, Sky, if you got frustrated at some point with the way communication here was working for you, and it's good that you've now stated very clearly that you want to be supported in the choice YOU make--thanks for being clear about that!  Anyway, wishing you all the best of luck and smoothness of taper.  I'll just add that my own choice of how to taper was certainly not the generally recommended one, and here I am, three months off benzos with no intention of ever going back on.  So go for it, friend!

 

Intend, I suspect that the badmouthing of clonazepam/Klonopin is a direct expression of people's suffering--certainly that would apply to me.  And absolutely you raise a good point in that some of the suffering in some cases might have been avoidable with a different approach.  And I admit again that I tapered too fast, and ended up with a very nasty opinion of clonazepam.  So moderation in all things, including, perhaps, the rhetoric we bring to this discussion!  Anyway, I am always keeping my fingers crossed for you, as well as for everyone here, that things will improve, life become more manageable and less organized around medication, tapering schedules, and so on. 

 

Jaxy, dear, you out there?  How are you doing this morning?

 

As always, I hope everyone slept.

 

Peace,

 

Rek

[[In...]]

Sky zone,

 

Please know that we all recognize that this is your body, and you absolutely have the right to do what you feel is best for it and your peace of mind.

 

I do understand what you mean about getting so many opinions and suggestions from others. It's truly overwhelming and mind boggling, especially when ones biggest wish is to simply "get on with it."

 

You did have a few other threads out there, and others (including maybe me), had ideas and recommendations for your taper, I think because you asked. But it's okay to ask at anytime for others to suggest, and for you to still do what you feel is best for you.

 

Just know that we all are trying to learn ourselves here just like you, but sooner or later, we try something. I think that you should just do what you feel is best for you right now, and not feel unsupported at all, particularly here.

 

I know I'm going to support you, and I hope you'll support me when I finally get to the point of

tapering.

 

You have friends here so don't worry.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Going through this experience can make us feel incredibly vulnerable--in some ways that's what I recall most vividly about last summer: how terribly fragile I felt.

 

Lizie and others who are experiencing body pain--joints, muscles.  Last night for the first time I tried a Tiger Balm pain patch on my neck, and I think it helped.  They're not cheap, alas, but they can perhaps be saved for times of especial need.

 

Peace, everyone -

 

Rek

[[Sk...]]

@[In...]

 

I am not upset or anything and do appreciate your support.  I just felt I needed to verbalize myself.  I feel extremely supported by many here on this thread.  I do appreciate your support very much. Any You have my support as well and prayers if you like. 

[[ja...]]

Hey, all...here I am. Thank you guys so much for your concerns. I can't and won't go back on Klonopin, although my doc has made clear that he is more than ready to prescribe it for me.  Your suggestions are terrific, all of you...I want to exercise so much but my foot is preventing me right now. Soon, though...it's been 10 weeks already. I'm in this sleep problem now...when I don't take a sleep aid, I have nightmares and insomnia. When I take the Ambien, I sleep a lot better but I don't want to develop a dependence.

 

I'm finally relaxing...sleep in a featherbed was nice. My nephew's amazing. We're seeing friends today and headed home.

 

You guys are so tremendous and so helpful  :smitten: Hugs to all!

[[re...]]

So good to hear from you, Jax, and you do sound better, on the whole--seeing your little nephew must have been a tonic!  I'm glad you're going to avoid going back on Klonopin, and also that you want to be wary of Ambien.  Perhaps the Ambien is something you can keep in reserve for occasional use at times of great need, which is what I do with Kavinace + melatonin. 

 

Here's a wonderful book everyone should read.  It's young-adult fiction, sent to me as a gift by a schoolteacher friend, and if he didn't live halfway across the country I'd go straight over to his house and give him a big hug.  It's called Wonder, by R.J. Palacio.  It'll make you laugh and cry, and it may even distract you from whatever is troubling you.  Truly inspiring.

 

Have a good Sunday, everybody -

 

Peace,

 

Rek

[[ms...]]

Hi all -

 

I am new here but looking to take advantage of the range of knowledge and experiences with K withdrawal.

 

My story in brief: prescribed Klonopin 2mg/day in early October after an acute episode of anxiety/depression. Tried a really quick taper after 3 weeks, got down to 1mg/day over the course of a week, but experienced a range of w/d symptoms - primarily insomnia, G/I issues, also increased anxiety/agitation (and/or just a return of the underlying anxiety symptoms). Quickly went back up to 1.5mg/day and have mostly stabilized, though I am experiencing a return of a few withdrawal symptoms. I am looking to taper sooner rather than later, and targeting the week after Thanksgiving to start (I have to do some stressful travel during the holidays so don't want to be dealing with increased w/d during that time).

 

...but of course, there are some complicating factors:

1. The Klonopin was prescribed for general anxiety, panic/agoraphobia, and OCD symptoms, which I am working on in therapy but still struggling with on a daily basis.

2. I also have pretty severe depression (of an existential/metaphysical nature - long story) and am taking Celexa 20mg/day, for about 2 1/2 weeks now, ideally to treat symptoms of both anxiety and depression. I intend to continue taking the Celexa throughout my taper, as I feel it has been beneficial in treating some of my underlying depression.

3. I have a steady job, through which I receive my health insurance, which has been difficult to perform even when I am relatively "stabilized" (due to concentration issues from the depression/anxiety).

 

I have a few questions I wanted to run by you all.

1. I have been on K for a relatively short time compared to some others - should this make a difference in my taper schedule? Eg, any reason to believe I can be successful with a quicker taper, or does the 10% per week rule apply?

2. Is there any wisdom in NOT attempting a taper yet given my underlying issues with anxiety and depression? The idea being that I am still receiving a therapeutic benefit from the medication, and given that I rely on my job to continue treatment of my difficulties, should I just keep on with the stabilized dose for a time to see if therapy and/or the Celexa helps with these conditions? I have a feeling this is what my psychiatrist will recommend, by the way.

 

As you can see, I am pretty committed to coming off the K soon because I am wary of long term effects, however I am a little bit torn giving the other issues I am struggling with.

 

Thanks for reading a long post. Any thoughts, advice, wisdom, or support would be hugely appreciated.

[[br...]]

Hello K-Klub:

 

Just checking in.  It seems like a lot of people have had some difficult times in the past week.

 

Jax:

 

It sounds so hard what you are going through.  I've heard so many stories and have had so many personal trials with the modern American workplace.  Everything can really be about the bottom line; leaving all humanity outside the building.  Throw in upper and middle management (some of whom are buckling under pressure themselves and some of whom actually like to bully - not unlike the elementary school playground scenario as someone mentioned) and you can have the perfect storm.  I go back and forth with my workplace - wondering some days if it is worth it at all.  It can also be bizarre when life stresses can bring back feelings or states of being that we thought were part of our "old" self.  I know I've experienced some anxiety and panic states in w/d in the past 3 months that I had completely forgotten about.  Under enough pressure; anyone will experience anxiety, panic, depression, etc.  You are a wise and intuitive person.  Do whatever you need to to keep yourself healthy.  I know this is not a popular opinion here - but I personally feel that reinstating on benzos can be warranted in some situations.  It is a highly personal decision; but I feel a viable alternative when all else fails to keep ourselves alive and able to function.  Be good to yourself no matter what.  Your current workplace is not you.  It should not be a measure or your self worth.

 

Sky: 

 

Your current taper plan sounds great to me.  It is such a personal endeavor but you have a broad support network here.  If this plan works; that's great.  We only know as we go what works for us individually and what does not.  Go with what you decide but listen to your body as you go.  You may decide to slow down; you may decide to speed up.  We are all here because we are having distressing symptoms.  Whether they existed prior to taking benzos, during high benzo use, whilst tapering or well after becoming benzo-free.  People who do not have troubling symptoms with their legit benzo use; are not on a support website.  My taper thus far has I believe been far from suggested; but is seems to have worked for me so far.  I am at 2 mg now.  I am also trying to figure out where to go from here.  I cut to 2 mg 3 weeks ago.  My plan is to stick at this dose for the next couple months at least.  The w/d process had been exhausting for me and I feel like I need some time to stabilize.  Best of luck.

 

Wishing everyone some serenity and love.

 

brian

[[re...]]

Hi, MS -

 

I'm going to copy verbatim a section of the post I sent to Liberty a day or two ago, because it details my experience with clonazepam (Klonopin) and a fast taper from it.  A fast taper is possible (I'm living proof), but rough, and not generally recommended.  Here are my details (sorry for anyone reading this who already read my post to Liberty--this is totally repetitive):

 

At the end of last May I was given a prescription for clonazepam because, as a consequence of a type of neuropathic pain, I had entirely stopped sleeping.  In the short term, the clonazepam solved the sleep problem, although not without backlash: grogginess the following day, etc.  If I had known what the longer-term effects of this drug were to be, I think I would have held out for a better solution, desperate though I was.  I never took more than one mg per day, but I got hooked very quickly, and began to develop weird symptoms, both psychological and physical (severe anxiety, intense body pain--in the joints, muscles, and bones--and strange burning sensations under random patches of skin).  I had been told that you have to taper off clonazepam, but had been given no information as to how to do this, so the tapers I did--three of them, before I finally got the third one (by main force, it seemed) to work, were really rapid: 1 mg for five to seven days, .75 for a few days, .5 for a few days, then .25 for a few days, and off.  On attempt #3 I jumped straight from .5 mg.  I pretty much knew it was going to be hell, but by then I also felt that I was just going to have to ride it out.  I did--the first week or so was horrific, the subsequent week a little more bearable, and after that I began to be able to imagine what it might be like to feel something like normal again.  Sleep was the biggest issue for me, and I tried all sorts of things, some of which may not have been the best choices, but at the same time I think some of them did help.  Kavinace plus melatonin is controversial, because it works on the gaba receptors, and some theories suggest that you should leave the gaba receptors entirely alone while you're in withdrawal.  But I think this over-the-counter combination remedy helped at least a little bit to get me over the insomnia hump.  I only used this for about three successive nights--the fourth night the remedy didn't seem to help, so after that I stopped using it regularly, and just took it once in a while.  Now--a bit over three months out from the last time I took any benzodiazepine or Z-drug--I am trying to avoid taking anything at all, except herbal teas (ginger, in particular) and warm milk (whether fat-free dairy or soy), both of which seem to have a soothing effect, whether I take them at bedtime or to alleviate middle-of-the-night wakefulness when I've woken and can't get back to sleep.  During my clonazepam withdrawal last summer I also signed up for a meditation class, to learn and practice mindfulness meditation.  I believe this helped me over the transition and that it can, if I keep it up, make a permanent difference to my life IN GENERAL.  I believe it can help me live and sleep in healthier ways.  So I very strongly recommend it, if it's something you feel you might be able to do.

 

So there you have it.  I'll just add that I wasn't taking, and never have taken, any form of SSRI antidepressant such as Celexa, so can't really comment on how that might complicate the picture.

 

I wish you the best--I hope you can find your way out of the benzodiazepine thicket with a minimum of problems!

 

Peace,

 

Rek

[[pe...]]

Sky zone,

 

Do you feel others are failing to respect your decision on your taper plans?

 

If so, why?

 

Intend

 

I do feel that many other members are failing to respect my decisions on my taper method/plan and feel I am being pushed into doing something else or titrating or other suggestions that I truly feel are being forced upon me, not specifically on this thread, but all throughout the benzobuddies forum.  I have made a decent decision for myself and have taken all opinions into consideration as well.  I just would like some respect on my decision.  That's shouldn't be too much to ask.

 

-SkyZone-

 

 

Hey SkyZone,

 

I guess it's my turn to appologize now.  I didn't realize this discussion was going on in the Klonopin Klub until I already posted a message in your thread 'I Can't Take It Anymore!!!...Klonopin Rapid Taper Fail!'.  I hope my post didn't upset you...just sharing my concern based on what I saw you were going through in your progress log.  I want you to know I totally respect and support whatever decision you make for your own personal taper plan...it's your body and your decision.  I think we are all just very concerned and cautious because we know how incredibly insidious this drug really is!

 

I am here to support you in any way I can.

 

perfect daughter

 

 

[[li...]]

Hi all -

 

I am new here but looking to take advantage of the range of knowledge and experiences with K withdrawal.

 

My story in brief: prescribed Klonopin 2mg/day in early October after an acute episode of anxiety/depression. Tried a really quick taper after 3 weeks, got down to 1mg/day over the course of a week, but experienced a range of w/d symptoms - primarily insomnia, G/I issues, also increased anxiety/agitation (and/or just a return of the underlying anxiety symptoms). Quickly went back up to 1.5mg/day and have mostly stabilized, though I am experiencing a return of a few withdrawal symptoms. I am looking to taper sooner rather than later, and targeting the week after Thanksgiving to start (I have to do some stressful travel during the holidays so don't want to be dealing with increased w/d during that time).

 

...but of course, there are some complicating factors:

1. The Klonopin was prescribed for general anxiety, panic/agoraphobia, and OCD symptoms, which I am working on in therapy but still struggling with on a daily basis.

2. I also have pretty severe depression (of an existential/metaphysical nature - long story) and am taking Celexa 20mg/day, for about 2 1/2 weeks now, ideally to treat symptoms of both anxiety and depression. I intend to continue taking the Celexa throughout my taper, as I feel it has been beneficial in treating some of my underlying depression.

3. I have a steady job, through which I receive my health insurance, which has been difficult to perform even when I am relatively "stabilized" (due to concentration issues from the depression/anxiety).

 

I have a few questions I wanted to run by you all.

1. I have been on K for a relatively short time compared to some others - should this make a difference in my taper schedule? Eg, any reason to believe I can be successful with a quicker taper, or does the 10% per week rule apply?

2. Is there any wisdom in NOT attempting a taper yet given my underlying issues with anxiety and depression? The idea being that I am still receiving a therapeutic benefit from the medication, and given that I rely on my job to continue treatment of my difficulties, should I just keep on with the stabilized dose for a time to see if therapy and/or the Celexa helps with these conditions? I have a feeling this is what my psychiatrist will recommend, by the way.

 

As you can see, I am pretty committed to coming off the K soon because I am wary of long term effects, however I am a little bit torn giving the other issues I am struggling with.

 

Thanks for reading a long post. Any thoughts, advice, wisdom, or support would be hugely appreciated.

 

My response to your two questions.

 

There should be no '10 % rule'. I think it refers to the Ashton method, and some members find the '10% rule' helpful. The Ashton method was devised as a means to get people who had been on medium to high doses of benzodiazepines for years off the drugs.

 

The longer you're on it the more tolerance you'll develop, most likely.

 

During the taper, did you experience 'rebound' anxiety/panic/OCD, adverse affects, true withdrawal or simply the effects of rapid dose changes ?

 

Klonopin is a drug that can trigger endocrine and neurological reactions. The 'physical' reactions can cause anxiety, insomnia and mood changes !

 

Klonopin is a benzodiazepine which is also a very potent anticonvulsant.

 

In my experience (after long term use) it took me weeks to truly stabilize on a dose. It has a half life of generally one to two, maybe three days.

Generally I made relatively big cuts (I would 'feel' even a small one anyway).

 

So I really don't know what really happened during the 'taper'.

 

 

In my experience the time you have been on the drug makes all the difference.  Discontinuation after short term use can cause problems as well but it's just not the same. It's probably indeed wise not to stay on the drug long term. You may not realize it, but 2 mg is a somewhat 'high' dose given the potency of the drug.

 

Since you're also on Celexa and since you'll probably need time to stabilize you need to take that into account. Klonopin can also affect mood in all sorts of ways.

 

In a nutshell, it's really hard to give advice to a 'stranger on the internet' except to discuss this with your doc. I would try to avoid staying on the drug long term and a long, slow taper (half a year?) is probably not a good idea.

 

Question 2: being on the drug long term has many disadvantages. The 'Valium equivalent' is 40 mg ! Many docs don't appreciate the potency of the drug. A benzo may help with anxiety, but 2 mg is just a lot. Too much for long term use IMO, except for the most severe cases.

 

It can be really hard to withdraw from Klonopin once you have developed tolerance if you still have the original conditions for which you were prescribed the drug.

 

Under those circumstances I would not suggest a simple, slow and long taper as a first choice.

Try to work with the doc ?

[[br...]]

Hello,

 

I am new to the site and was hoping to get some information and support! I was prescribed Klonapin 2 years ago (roughly) for treatment of panic attacks. I was prescribed 2mg a day but I rarely took that much! I was also prescribed wellbutrin at the same time (XL 300MG/day). I have gone through intensive EMDR therapy that has gotten me to an amazing place in my life! I have grown so much in the year I have done EMDR and am mentally prepared to drop the Klonapin and lower the wellbutrin. In general the two medications have made me incredibly thin, dry mouth, and a poor memory and I am ready to be done with that.

 

About 2 months ago I held myself to only .5 mg a day with some side effects. I am sure you all know the drill... I was feeling good on that and ready to move on to another ween about a week ago. At the same time I found that my hair was falling out by the handful, I am a poor university student so nutrition may be a culprit as well. Does anyone have any experience with this? If so does it grow back? How long? I am seeing a dermatologist tomorrow to get the figured out but was curious if the withdraw could be the reason.

 

At the time of hair loss I cut to .25 mg a day and it has been pretty brutal. I have been short of breath, having tremors everywhere, headaches, nausea etc etc. I know this ween may seem a little fast (in relation to what I have read here) but I am someone that likes to get stuff done and kind of power through the storm. I am still feeling very confidant but am feeling pretty terrible right now. Judging my quick ween are these symptoms typical? Also with the duration and amount of medication am I in a tough spot? I am not sure what others are prescribed, so when I read that people are still fighting with it years later it is pretty scary. I decided to go back to my normal mg of Wellbutrin while I finish the klonapin ween so I do not over complicate the process.

 

Last evening I went to get some drinks with friends and found that I was incredibly uncomfortable in social situations (hard to make eye contact with close friends, didn't know what to do with my hands). It was pretty demoralizing because I do not want to destroy my social life, however I really want off the benzos. Do these symptoms decrease over time? My partner is also coming home from 6 months abroad in a month and I want to make sure that I won't destroy that relationship because it is amazing! She is a wonderful source of support and I have filled in her in with everything. Any tips on how to keep this out of the relationship?

 

Sorry for all the questions, just looking for answers .

 

To everyone out there good luck and thank you.