The Klonopin Klub

[[re...]]

Jax, I'm so sorry.  What a nasty time of things you've had.  I'm glad you have some documentation to support your own case--this is what people I know in the corporate/business world say is a must to survive there: document EVERYTHING.  But it must feel as though you're living on the defensive when you have to keep that so relentlessly in mind.  Anyway, I really feel for you with all the stress--and the sorrow about the shore, too.  Hang in there, and keep us posted.

 

Genoa, glad you're back.  I hope both you and Jax start having gentler dreams--it would be good, wouldn't it, at least to be able to take refuge in sleep?

 

Thinking of you all -

 

Rek

[[In...]]

Actually I think a certain amount of documentation is necessary in a lot of jobs. But it's true, the corporate world is particularly "cut throat," or so I read from numerous sources.

 

Yes, it is so sad about the Jersey Shore. My dad was a kid who came from Ireland when he was eight years old. Many other family had already come all the way back from 1854 as far as my records indicate, so the family clan was settled well in Montclair, New Jersey when he and his brothers and parents got there. But most of my family still lives in different parts of New Jersey.

 

Jax, I guess I wouldn't be "trusting" Mother Nature either after this devastation. I'm here in the intermountain west, but we have our issues also. I could go real political here about the environment, but I'll save it for the editorial pages of the newspapers. I just worry to think how we take it all for granted like we do, and then wonder why these things happen. It is a collective worldwide problem, and individuals alone cannot solve or fix it. It will take the will of governments and citizen groups to make a difference.

 

Rek, how is your house coming along? I know you had your share of difficulty also with a flooded basement and piping running out to the street. Sorry if I got that wrong. But I know you had some major issues, and am trying to get updated.

 

Well I dropped my Xanax by .0625 Mg this am. That puts me on 2.9375 K. But it will take 10 days for the .0625 K to build up in my system. The X w/d will most likely hit me by Monday. This has become an arduous and actually somewhat painful process for me. I waited three weeks to make the previous

exchange, and waiting like that has never worked well for me (I've been at this since June 5), so I don't know why I do it. One more to go and then I'm completely on K. For those of you off or tapering, this is probably either boring or like listening to a French speaker, but it's a certain amount of progress for me.

 

Ill have to change my signature which I will do. I actually have work meetings today myself and an online training that is mandatory. So, onward, I suppose.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Intend, you are so sweet to ask about the basement.  It's been fixed, although still has to have the drywall put back.  Likewise the plumbing problem (you had all the details right, by the way--good memory).  All at great expense, and my husband is convinced--quite possibly correctly, since the contractors did have us over a barrel--that we've been swindled, robbed blind.  Even if he's right, my feeling is this sometimes just comes with the territory of owning a house and not knowing how to diagnose or fix things yourself, and we need just to swallow it and move on as best we can.  But he grew up hardscrabble, and I didn't, so these things affect us differently, and I don't blame him for taking it hard. 

 

I'm with you 1000% on the subject of the environment.  If these crazy storms aren't a wake-up call, then what WILL it take to jolt us awake?  Unsettling thought.  I worry about the coming generations we're leaving this earth to.  I've been looking at some gorgeous pictures of Tibet, and it still looks so pristine there, the way of life so much simpler and less exploitive of every resource.  But Tibet, too, has its troubles, China's having moved in lock, stock, and barrel (not to mention the violence involved in that takeover) being the most obvious one. 

 

Well, we can only live each day, and try to be responsible.  And perhaps give back a little more than we think we get, when we can manage it.

 

Intend, I hope that the Xanax cut goes smoothly for you, and that you'll be feeling noticeably better as you progress.  And you ARE progressing, indeed you are.

 

Sending warm thoughts to all -

 

Rek

[[re...]]

Jax, how are you holding up?  Send a bulletin if you can.  I know it needs to happen when you're at home, so probably not until evening, or early tomorrow morning.  Thinking of you, at any rate, and hoping the road's gotten less bumpy.  Fingers crossed for better luck -

 

Rek

[[Ly...]]

Hey everyone

Hey jax I'm sorry to Hear u are going Thru such a rough time as rek says I hope the road gets less bumpy for you to. Rek glad your basement got fixed . I have lots of nightmares all the time about my drug overdose and almost dying

Sigh  will I sure enjoyed my 2 day window of feeling better bc yesterday jt started right back up and I felt that spaced out dreamy feeling all day . It's so annoying the way it randomly happens . I also got a bad cold so today I'm feeling sick and depersonalized and kinda light headed n out of it all at the same time. Does getting sick bring Benzo withdrawal symptoms on more ? Ugh I'm gonna go eat some soup and read a book. . Hope u all have a good afternoon

 

 

[[re...]]

Sorry you aren't feeling well, Lynn!  I don't know for sure, but I'll bet being sick can exacerbate benzo-withdrawal trouble; just in general, when your immune system is depressed, it seems that whatever else you may be going through can get temporarily worse as a result.  So hang in there, and let's hope getting over the cold brings you back to that better place you found a few days ago.  I hope the soup and book are both good, and make you feel at least a little bit better!

 

Rek

[[In...]]

Actually gettingvthevflu and/or a cold can exacerbate benzo w/d. Also there are a bunch of cold and flu medications not recommended during a cold and flu.

 

I'm only now learning this. Guaifenesin tablets are good as a decongestant and expectorant and dextromethoraphan is good as as a cough suppressant. But Im reading that a lot of other cold remedies like robitussin are not good. I'd also consider a humidifier when you go to bed.

 

Anyway, just some info I've recently read.

 

Intend

[[Sk...]]

Hi All! 

 

I am probably starting my taper tomorrow.  I hope it goes well. 

[[ja...]]

Morning, all...you guys are so great to ask how I'm doing and being concerned...sometimes we need real support to hang on. I find it here - thank you SO much.

 

The bulletin from yesterday is that things continued to be bad - I lost a large commission because of the Executive Assistant's error, who is an incredibly pompous ass, and then she told me that I was damaging MY credibility. What?? So, I don't know if this is the total right thing to do but I've surrendered. Enough is enough. I've always liked my jobs but this has been a lie from the very beginning. They told me that I was going to help companies succeed in a consulting role, and then when I got there my title was Telemarketer. When I complained, they said they would accept my resignation. The physical and mental stress of this job has been monumental. Over the last year, my GI system backed up completely and I had to go to the hospital for unbearable back pain. I had a nervous breakdown last May. It goes on and on. I have this amazing fantasy that my boss says, "I have to let you go." And I answer, with tears of relief in my eyes, "THANK YOU."

 

With all this, some symptoms came back: twitching and insomnia. So...even at 6 months, still not out of the woods unfortunately.

 

So, time to look beyond myself. I want to catch up on you guys.

 

SkyZ - good, good luck today! You can do it, my friend. Let us know how it goes!

 

Intend, good luck to you too. Glad the crossover is almost complete and you can concentrate on tapering the Klonopin. It's going to feel so good as you go, I'm sure of it.

 

Lynn - thank you so much for reminding me about a good book (and soup). What a great way to just sit out the symptoms. If you can, just remember the window of clarity will come back and eventually will stay. As for feeling sick bringing on more w/d sxs, I'm not sure about that, but I know that when I am off Klonopin I feel everything (physically) much more acutely. When I was on the K, I could escape any sickness in my drugged dreamworld. My 2 cents about that...

 

Dein, did you end up sleeping after the coffee? Curious about that. Rek, is your sleep disturbed from your tea? I try not to have any caffiene after about 1:30 PM, which helps. I slept <6 hours last night, and I'm willing to bet it's from the chinese tea I had at dinner last night. It was cold outside and my throat hurt, so I guzzled it down. Live and learn...

 

Rek, Rek, Rek. I love that you respond to everyone so personally and thoroughly. I'm so glad to hear that the basement situation has gotten better! Getting cold up in New England? Brisk here...on and off with a heavier coat.

 

Anyone have good plans for the weekend? I mentioned in a previous post that we are going off to Philly for my nephew's birthday, and then we're seeing friends on Sunday. It's funny, we don't have kids and we're a bit older, so we gravitate to much younger couples who don't have kids yet. Meh, what's age anyway...so I may not check in this weekend but I will be thinking of yous.

 

OK, time to meditate and gird myself with heavy armor...it's only Thursday. Have a good one, all.

 

 

[[re...]]

Jax, it's very good to hear from you, and hear you sounding more like yourself, despite the evident awfulness of yesterday, about which I am so sorry.  When you say you've surrendered, do you mean you are going to leave the job?  Whichever way you're headed there, I hope you can find peace of mind.  What did you end up doing about the recruiter who approached you?  Does that represent an alternative of any kind?  At all events, I'm not surprised this stress brought back symptoms, but it sounds to me as though you can overcome them--not least of all, with meditation.  The meditation course I'm taking now is called "Loving Kindness" (which to some may sound a little bit too, oh, groovy, New Age, whatever, but it's essentially just a refraction through a secular lens of fundamental Buddhist principles).  I think I am learning from it, but I'll refrain for the moment from going into that too much, lest I slide into inadvertent preachiness.  The basic thing--and I'm sure this isn't news to you--is that the people you are dealing with at work behave the way they do because at bottom they despise themselves.  It's really sad, actually.  My mother (who was maybe a Buddhist without knowing it) always used to tell me when kids tormented me at school, "They're unhappy themselves.  If they weren't, they wouldn't feel any need to be so mean."  Not that we aren't all occasionally petty or mean, but I think she was talking about those who make a habit of it.  Which sounds like the people at your job--all that throwing their weight around, trying to make the people under them feel small.  It's not about you, but that doesn't make it any pleasanter to deal with, I know. 

 

Meanwhile, you're going to see your nephew, Tao--what a great name he has!  I hope you have a lovely, rejuvenating time with him!

 

To answer your question about tea/sleep--I've been sleeping well the past few nights, despite my morning jolt of black-tea caffeine.  Maybe that's because I do only drink it in the morning, just one cup and then I'm done.  What I wonder, though, is whether my black tea habit may be contributing to the body aches, whether that symptom (which I assume to have something to do with lingering clonazepam effects) would clear up faster if I simply cut caffeine entirely.  Not sure.  And just a little too weak-willed to experiment--I love that morning cup so much.  Oh, dear!

 

SkyZone, you can indeed do it--we're all behind you TOTALLY.  You know that, right?  :-)

 

Do keep us posted, Intend, and Lynn, I hope you were able to sleep last night and recover at least a bit from the cold.  (I'm glad to get Intend's advice about the cold medicine--another thing to keep in mind.)

 

Deinoncote, keep us posted if you can.

 

Genoa, has your upper respiratory condition cleared up?

 

I hope everyone has a gentle morning -

 

Peace,

 

Rek

 

 

[[re...]]

p.s., Jax, this practice of replying individually to people is something I picked up from you!

[[In...]]

Well folks, I do believe the info I got about the cold and flu medicines because of where I got it.

 

But having said that, I think we have to try real hard to live our lives during and after benzo w/d. I'm not one for health food type supplements for any reason, and I wasn't before I realized my dependency on Xanax. I tried HRT about five years back, and actually felt worse. I tried the creams and patches, and finally decided I was too busy to bother as I just felt awful.

 

I tried vitamins and minerals, but the pills were so big, I had to use a pill cutter to choke them down. And so, I just go on trying to get through all this with minimal "pill taking" other than this benzo business and omeprazole. And if I get a cold or flu, I'll just try to get that guaifenesin as I'm familiar with it from my many throat surgeries and I know it helps. And perhaps just aspirin and my humidifier. But I'm not going to obcess about any of this as I'm already absorbed enough with benzos. And I think we all just can only do so much anyway or we'll not do much or eat much or even do some normal things about getting over a cold.

 

And I also do drink coffee and have for years. I've recently bought some of expensive decafs in bags at the store. I got dunkin donuts, seattles best, and Starbucks brands. So I brew up a large cup of that each morning, pour it into a cup and start drinking while I then brew up three more cups of good old Maxwell French roast. I guess caffeine can be a "no no " also, but there are differing opinions on that also. So once again, I'm compromising by drinking decaf and another cup of the real

McCoy.

 

But here is a small list of what I'm pretty sure about and it's easy stuff to avoid: cruciferous vegetables which include broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage and Brussels sprouts. The rest of the list is on the Internet and I can easily avoid these. The other thing is fluoroquinolone antibiotics. These include Cipro and Levaquin. There's now an FDA black box warning on these as people in benzo w/d can have life altering effects from using them, and so can the "regular" folks. Check this out also on the Internet. Apparently they are a second line defense antibiotic when lots of others don't work, but docs often don't realize this (big surprise, huh?) and will Rx when another group of antibiotic could work. Another is charbroiled meat whatever that is. My hubby says it's probably meat cooked with charcoal briquets, but I'm essentially a vegetarian, so I'm not really sure. The last is alcohol which everyone probably knows by now. Well, I'm no big drinker at all, so I can avoid this too, but I do have maybe 4 or 5 oz. a week if I don't feel like total "crap" which I often do.

 

Ok, sorry guys. Too much of a lesson here. I'm still just going to live pretty much like I've been doing and that's not as easy as it was since I got started on this benzo thing. Hope the day goes well for all.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Intend, yikes, wait wait wait, we're supposed to AVOID cruciferous vegetables???  But I thought those were supposed to be the cure for everything from hangnails to cancer?  (OK, exaggerating, but you know, anti-oxidants and all . . . )  Now they're bad for you if you're in benzo-withdrawal?  Any idea why?  I eat broccoli every single night.  I should stop  . . .?  Sorry--this really threw me!  I thought eating broccoli (of which I get mightily sick sometimes) was, like, the one thing I was doing that I could be SURE was good!  Ouf--will have to look into this  . . . not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to know why!

 

OK, sending out the warm thoughts far and wide, even if I can't eat broccoli anymore  . . .  ;-)

 

Rek

[[In...]]

Rek,

 

Well I just googled it and looked at some various answers. Apparently it's mainly while tapering as it contains oxalic acid which speeds up benzo clearance.

 

So if youre tapering, and the benzo leaves too fast, you'll feel w/d faster than you'd want for the taper you're on.

 

I actually don't think anyone who's off should have to worry about this.

 

Sorry for being an alarmist of sorts. I think I'm ruffling some feathers today, and not just on this blog.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Hey, Intend, you didn't ruffle my feathers, just threw me for a loop a little bit--and it's fine if your initial information was not altogether complete; if I'm going to get all hot and bothered about something, it's not as if I can't go look it up for myself, but at the time I responded to your earlier post I was rushed, so I'm just now getting back online.  I will in fact look this up, because if nothing else it's interesting information.  It never ceases to amaze me, the number of ways in which benzo tapering and withdrawal can dictate the terms of how you conduct other aspects of your life--it's sort of surreal.  Someday, I suppose, someone will publish a compendium of thorough and accurate information about this whole process and all its ramifications.  That's if the pharmaceutical companies don't persist in blocking such an effort entirely . . .

 

Hope your day is going well, and that you're feeling well.  Don't worry too much about ruffled feathers; we are grown-ups here, and can (at least when we are not actively in the grip of benzo-induced paranoia) step back and get a little adult perspective on things.

 

Warmly as ever,

 

Rek

[[De...]]

Good to know about the cold medicines, Intend.  I've been eating broccoli and cabbage and haven't noticed any escalation of sxs when I do... but after I've made the jump I'll convert to a strictly cruciferous vegetable diet - I'm going to want this stuff out of my body, and Prof. Ashton mentioned something about the complete lack of knowledge as to whether these drugs get into your bones.  I'd love to have a beer every once in a while, but as alcohol potentiates benzos, it would be like going back a step.  No beer until done with w/d. 

 

Jax - I think I slept ok after having caffeine.  Thank you for asking.  I was in a terrible mood all day, though.  Not sure if the two are related.

 

My sxs are disappointingly worse making a cut of 0.03mg as opposed to 0.02mg, but I'm also struggling a lot this week with hormone replacement therapy.  I had nightmares last night for the first time since slowing my taper.  The anxiety just makes everything more difficult.  So I know what you mean about making decisions, Intend.  But we won't know if we've made the right decision until we try - that's what I have to tell myself.  It's hard to make a decision that can make you feel out of control, not knowing what that decision will bring, particularly when anxious.

 

But I know next week will be better than this week, as far as w/d sxs go, and hopefully I've found the right cocktail of hormones - which I'll also know by next week.

[[ta...]]

I'm starting to think that I do need to be on some type of anxiety medication.  When I think about the holidays I get horrible anxiety.  When I get an invite to go somewhere I get a rush of anxiety.  I just got invited to a holiday party and I'm not sure I can make it.  But I hate being alone as well. 

[[In...]]

Tablasco,

 

You're probably feeling real benzo induced anxiety since you took them and are now off. I read that many people end up with anxiety or increased anxiety after being on a benzo.

 

And I'm also experiencing a lot right now myself so I understand how you feel. I'm having trouble making myself literally move to get anything done, and I'm in my house. Just a few things to do, but anxiety and lack of motivation.

 

I wish I were off like you. But I've got a long way to go. It seems insurmountable today. I did exchange yesterday. One more to go. W/D usually hits in 6 days with me; its hitting right now today. Maybe it will get better throughout the day. I'd stay off it I were you.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Tablasco, I second Intend.  We are none of us here to tell you what to do, so you need to work out for yourself what's best for you.  But many of us feel, from hard and painful experience, that we pay an even higher price when we go back on something we took for anxiety and then got off of, only to experience--after a bit--the worsened anxiety that induced us to go back on . . . and so the cycle perpetuates itself.  What alternatives to medication have you considered to address anxiety?  Is meditation a possibility for you?  Do you respond favorably at all to calming teas, like chamomile or ginger?  Deep breathing is also excellent--it can accomplish more than you might think.  Just some suggestions . . .  Hang in there.

 

Rek

[[ta...]]

Thanks Intend and Rek.  I really have been on this cycle for a long time.  I get to a point where it is almost unbearable and I get another med or go back on klonopin.  The holidays are tough, especially when I don't feel like doing anything. 

 

Intend, I have the same problem, having no motovation, and then having anxiety because I don't get anything done.  I have the same problem at work and I'm very lucky to have an understanding boss.  I have had 3 windows of good motovation and less anxiety lately, about a day or two at a time since August.  Intend, I also had the 6 day delay for withdrawal when I was cutting, it was like clockwork. 

 

I starting to think the anxiety, especially the acute kind of shocking anxiety, is possibly a reaction to damage of my central nervous system.  I know that takes time to heal. 

 

Rek, I've tried teas and meditation but since it's only a short term fix, it's hard to keep at it. I have a therapist who uses mindfullness to address anxiety.  It seemed to work for a while, a few years ago, but now I just fall back into thinking I am always going to be this way, however, through this whole process, I've never given getting off benzos enough of a chance. 

 

[[In...]]

Tablasco,

 

Well, it just takes time is what we keep saying, like broken records, but it's true. I'm just working my way onto K as my sig says with a goal of 3 mgs. My affinity for Xanax is very high, so when I exchange, I get w/d. Last June, when I started this cross, I ended up in the ER with so much fear and anxiety that I had a major meltdown.

 

And that was with an exchange of .25 Mg X for .25 Mg K. That's a small amount I'm told, but I nearly lost it; in fact I did. Luckily, the K kicked in the next day.

 

Now that I'm almost there, I have to exchange by .0625 Mg as my sig also says. What a nightmare, and I haven't even started tapering yet. And today, that 6 days just became 24 hours. But I have to believe there's light at the end of this tunnel.

 

So as Rek says, try to hang in there. You're free whether you realize it or not. It's not easy. I think I've experienced so much withdrawl just trying to get to this point, I'm surprised at how awful it's been. But just try cause you really are better off this crap. And I really mean it.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Good morning, folks--I hope everyone got some sleep. 

 

Lots of us are working on how to manage anxiety without medication, or without additional medication, and for lots of us sleep is the big issue--of course, the two are intertwined.  Sleep is what I most want to keep as constant as possible, not least of all because it governs everything else--most notably, how much physical discomfort I'm in (or NOT in, preferably!), and how I feel emotionally.  These days I'm sleeping all right without taking anything at all other than ginger tea and/or warm milk (soy, fat-free dairy, or a combination).  That can change, of course, so I'm grateful for every decent night's sleep I get.

 

As for anxiety--that question is huge, particularly if you are still taking a benzo and trying to taper; for one thing, you can be anxious simply about how the tapering process is going to go.  Social anxiety, Tablasco, is something I've realized recently I've dealt with all my life.  My husband, as someone who has experienced debilitating shyness, finds this perplexing, and he insists I'm not a shy person.  He's right that I'm not exactly shy--I'm rather gregarious.  But I always feel awkward, and in fact there are a lot of social situations I let myself get pulled into that I'd just as soon avoid (I'd rather stay home with a good book).  One sort of compromise I've found, in social gatherings I feel compelled for whatever reason to attend, is simply not to talk much.  I sit and listen.  That actually can work surprisingly well, because in general people want to be listened to.  I'm not suggesting that this is a sure-fire solution to your troubles--I know it's not.  Just offering a perspective.

 

I think the best thing you can do for the anxiety if you're trying to avoid medication, or trying at least to avoid increasing your medication, is to think of the best ways to take really good care of yourself.  Whatever feels good to you or can soothe you, whether it's a warm bath, aromatherapy, music you love, a book of beautiful pictures (when sometimes even trying to read text feels too taxing), herbal tea, deep breathing--or some combination of these things--try to give yourself that gift as often as you can.  Remind yourself that you are taking care of YOU, that YOU are precious and deserve this care.  I'm sending this out to everyone, in the hope that it may . . . oh, I don't know.  Inspire you to do something really nice for yourselves? 

 

Everyone, be gentle with yourselves, and keep us posted on how you are.

 

Rek 

[[ta...]]

Intend,  there is light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel is just so long.  But I know we can do it.  I have a lot of emotions during the holidays and things seem to be hitting all at once.  I can't wait until Jan 2.  But then I can't wait until a year from now when this is hopefully all over. 

 

Rek,  you've always had some good ideas and good words.  Thanks.  It's very hard for me, being depressed, to do good things for myself.  I really don't do well alone and doing things for myself.  I'm glad you're sleeping well, that is a big part of this.  I will take the suggestions for ginger tea and warm milk and as soon as I get to the store ( I have done the warm milk with a little success at 4 am). 

 

I have never been shy, quite opposite, I've usually been the talkative funny guy.  Since I've been on these meds, I have changed a lot, except for the desire to be the way I was.  I hope we call can get to where we want to be.  I have to remember when I started cutting, I knew this was going to be a long road and I've made it this far.  I knew there would be parties and holidays that I would feel bad, but I just don't like it. 

[[li...]]

I hear you, Tab ...... it is a hard journey ...... but we will get there.  We mustn't give up.  I am writing this as much for myself, as well as for you.

 

These last few days have been difficult ....... I just don't feel like myself ...... nervous ..... and a short fuse, particularly with my husband. 

He deserves it most of the time, lol, but I am still reacting more than I usually would.

 

I am going to keep plodding on, though.  I refuse to let a man-made chemical dictate my life.

 

Thanks again for your support, Rek.  I find it difficult to post when I feel like this, but your insightful and comforting comments always encourage me ........

 

Lizie

 

 

[[re...]]

A long, sometimes scary tunnel, that it is.  But the light's glimmering there at the other end, and, though it may flicker sometimes, still it'll get brighter, rest assured.

 

Lizie, you say: "not going to let a man-made chemical dictate my life," and I say, THAT'S THE SPIRIT--you go, girl!  I've found it helpful sometimes to be gentle with myself, but get good and mad at the industry, the whole medico-pharmaceutical complex, that, before the effects of these substances was properly understood (well, it still isn't--not by enough doctors, anyway), made us all so vulnerable to the dependency we have to struggle this way to overcome.  If the process isn't an endurance test, then I don't know what is--you guys all deserve medals.

 

Finding your way through the tunnel will be worth it.  You'll reclaim your life, a personality that may have gone into hiding (and can you blame it??  I mean, geez . . . !), and--as Jax can testify--so much else in the course of daily experience. 

 

I salute you all!

 

Peace,

 

Rek