The Klonopin Klub#2

[[Li...]]

Libertas, you seem a wise person to ask a question about Jewelry scale. My little jewelry scale has a gram option (no mg that I see), so I weigh my 3/4 of 1 mg tablet on the scale and get .151 of a gram.  I thought about taking 0.75 and .151 but got stuck. Of I subtract 0.75 from .151 I get .599 which is rounded to 0.60 mg.  Is that right?  If so, my dry cutting is off in saying I've been taking .75 mg of 1 mg.

 

Can you help me, I'm raising my hand, help!!

 

Regrettably, I do not have experience with dry tapering/titration so will defer to other members who do. 

[[or...]]

yes, I'm afraid I'll be searching far and wide for the answer on scales.  Thanks for your honesty, and replying to me.

[[he...]]

So will you show me how I weigh in at .151 in grams, and how that converts to, or compares to .75 of a mg if it's simple

 

I asked that of Libertas but not answer back yet.  I know, not everyone lives on this forum like I do 

 

I have been dry tapering the whole time, so I can help with this. Your tablet weighs .151 grams? That seems very light for all the clonazepam brands I know. Is that the weight of your cut tablet or a full tablet? And how much med is in each tablet? Are they 0.5-mg tabs or 1-mg tabs?

 

Also, to answer the previous concern about dry tapering, the individual weights of the tablets don't matter as long as the concentration/density remains fairly uniform. Just because one tablet weighs .170 g and another weighs .165 g, if the concentration of the slurry they were made from was relatively uniform, then you can reasonably cut to the weight you need and expect it to have the same amount of med. This is why we calculate an average pill weight and base every cut on that ideal weight, as it should give the most accurate results, no matter the weight of each pill.

[[or...]]

So will you show me how I weigh in at .151 in grams, and how that converts to, or compares to .75 of a mg if it's simple

 

I asked that of Libertas but not answer back yet.  I know, not everyone lives on this forum like I do 

 

I have been dry tapering the whole time, so I can help with this. Your tablet weighs .151 grams? That seems very light for all the clonazepam brands I know. Is that the weight of your cut tablet or a full tablet? And how much med is in each tablet? Are they 0.5-mg tabs or 1-mg tabs?

 

Also, to answer the previous concern about dry tapering, the individual weights of the tablets don't matter as long as the concentration/density remains fairly uniform. Just because one tablet weighs .170 g and another weighs .165 g, if the concentration of the slurry they were made from was relatively uniform, then you can reasonably cut to the weight you need and expect it to have the same amount of med. This is why we calculate an average pill weight and base every cut on that ideal weight, as it should give the most accurate results, no matter the weight of each pill.

 

Ok, first I've ordered what I think will be a better scale but the general consensus from videos on dry taper is that nothing is going to register perfect   I get that totally.  I just can't figure out my scale, but I will when I get the new one, and the little pamphlet with directions.

 

I'll see if I can answer your question here   Yes, on my rikity little scale when it was on "gram" setting it comes up .151  but converting that, which I forget how I did that  it was only about 60 %, and I think I am doing my 1 mg C right when I reduce 1/4 of the tablet so I am taking .75 or 3/4.

 

I need to read and read again what you talk about in the concentration/denisity. The rest I pretty much understand that you shared. 

 

What ever happened to sending in your "basic desire of cuts to be" and BB making up the spreadsheets?  I imagine they got too many to handle but this part is so hard for me as half the time I can't even read something correctly let alone figure out the math

[[he...]]

Don't concern yourself too much with the how and why. Just know you can be reasonably confident of your cuts if you use an average pill weight for all your calculations.

 

It sounds like maybe you have the .200 g Solco 1-mg clonazepam tabs? If so, 3/4 of that tablet would weigh .150 g, give or take. Is that correct?

 

The calculation is simple:

 

New Dose / Pill Dose * Pill Weight = New Weight

 

So...

 

.75 mg / 1.0 mg * .200 g = .150 g

 

* means multiplication

[[or...]]

Don't concern yourself too much with the how and why. Just know you can be reasonably confident of your cuts if you use an average pill weight for all your calculations.

 

It sounds like maybe you have the .200 g Solco 1-mg clonazepam tabs? If so, 3/4 of that tablet would weigh .150 g, give or take. Is that correct?

 

The calculation is simple:

 

New Dose / Pill Dose * Pill Weight = New Weight

 

So...

 

.75 mg / 1.0 mg * .200 g = .150 g

 

* means multiplication

 

Wow the scale was right on and I went and ordered another scale that's okay I think the other one is a little bit in bad shape anyway I think I got it at the salvation army or what's his place St Vincent de Paul

 

[[Li...]]

hereforhelp:  Thank you so much for lending a helping hand to oregonlady!

 

oregonlady:  In response to your question …

 

What ever happened to sending in your "basic desire of cuts to be" and BB making up the spreadsheets?

 

We’ve learned over the years that a flexible, symptom-guided approach to tapering is more likely to result in a positive outcome compared to providing members with a ‘start-to-finish’ taper plan/schedule/spreadsheet.  Too many members followed such plans blindly and got into trouble.  Taper planning is a process not a one-time event.

[[or...]]

hereforhelp:  Thank you so much for lending a helping hand to oregonlady!

 

oregonlady:  In response to your question …

 

What ever happened to sending in your "basic desire of cuts to be" and BB making up the spreadsheets?

 

We’ve learned over the years that a flexible, symptom-guided approach to tapering is more likely to result in a positive outcome compared to providing members with a ‘start-to-finish’ taper plan/schedule/spreadsheet.  Too many members followed such plans blindly and got into trouble.  Taper planning is a process not a one-time event.

 

That's good info, better late than never.

[[he...]]

hereforhelp:  Thank you so much for lending a helping hand to oregonlady!

 

Happy to help as always. 

[[Li...]]

hereforhelp:  Thank you so much for lending a helping hand to oregonlady!

 

Happy to help as always. 

 

You are a breath of fresh air, hereforhelp! Your positive attitude, the kindness and respect you show to other members, and your willingness to support others even through you are in the throes of a challenging withdrawal yourself are inspirational.

[[or...]]

hereforhelp:  Thank you so much for lending a helping hand to oregonlady!

 

Happy to help as always. 

 

I'm so glad there are people like you here, that truly want to help us 

[[he...]]

I love you all and care about you and want to see us all get better. And hopefully we can make positive changes so this life-altering, soul-sucking crap doesn't happen to anyone else. If I'm able, I will continue to help whomever I can to get free and heal from this iatrogenic mess.

 

I'm so thankful for all the kind people I've met in this journey. We need people who've walked it to coach us along.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

[[Co...]]

hereforhelp:  Thank you so much for lending a helping hand to oregonlady!

 

Happy to help as always. 

 

You are a breath of fresh air, hereforhelp! Your positive attitude, the kindness and respect you show to other members, and your willingness to support others even through you are in the throes of a challenging withdrawal yourself are inspirational.

 

I agree! You were one of the first to support me here in November/December when I arrived to this forum.

[[or...]]

I love you all and care about you and want to see us all get better. And hopefully we can make positive changes so this life-altering, soul-sucking crap doesn't happen to anyone else. If I'm able, I will continue to help whomever I can to get free and heal from this iatrogenic mess.

 

I'm so thankful for all the kind people I've met in this journey. We need people who've walked it to coach us along.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Can't agree more with having people who are walking it, or have walked it.  Their experience is worth more to me then those who have only studied it, if even that. 

 

I've found all I need to start further, micro-taper and I am very glad I was led to it all by people who experienced it

[[...]]

I love you all and care about you and want to see us all get better. And hopefully we can make positive changes so this life-altering, soul-sucking crap doesn't happen to anyone else. If I'm able, I will continue to help whomever I can to get free and heal from this iatrogenic mess.

 

I'm so thankful for all the kind people I've met in this journey. We need people who've walked it to coach us along.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Can't agree more with having people who are walking it, or have walked it.  Their experience is worth more to me then those who have only studied it, if even that. 

 

I've found all I need to start further, micro-taper and I am very glad I was led to it all by people who experienced it

 

I love seeing all the love and support here. I used to live on this board and it really made a difference to have other people helping me and supporting me. I'm almost never on here now but I'm glad to see that the kindness continues

[[Li...]]

Yes, all his responses on those old threads where he asserted with absolute certainty that everyone can water taper and do great, symptoms will be reduced, and tolerance withdrawal (or whatever you want to call the phenomenon) doesn't exist exasperate me. He refused to acknowledge that some people cannot use a liquid, some people will have tough symptoms as they taper, and some people started having tough symptoms before tapering while taking their med as prescribed.

 

Hello again, hereforhelp.  In re-reading recent posts, I realized I missed this important one from you.  I thought you might find it interesting (and perhaps validating) that I had the same experience as you with the DIY clonazepam liquid (it did not work for me either; indeed, it caused me to crash and burn). Upon further investigation, I discovered I was not the only member who had issues with it.  When I shared my experience along with empirical evidence as to why this might have occurred, I was dismissed and gaslit. 

[[Su...]]

Yes, all his responses on those old threads where he asserted with absolute certainty that everyone can water taper and do great, symptoms will be reduced, and tolerance withdrawal (or whatever you want to call the phenomenon) doesn't exist exasperate me. He refused to acknowledge that some people cannot use a liquid, some people will have tough symptoms as they taper, and some people started having tough symptoms before tapering while taking their med as prescribed.

 

Hello again, hereforhelp.  In re-reading recent posts, I realized I missed this important one from you.  I thought you might find it interesting (and perhaps validating) that I had the same experience as you with the DIY clonazepam liquid (it did not work for me either; indeed, it caused me to crash and burn). Upon further investigation, I discovered I was not the only member who had issues with it.  When I shared my experience along with empirical evidence as to why this might have occurred, I was dismissed and gaslit.

 

Libertas,

I'm so sorry that you had that experience on these boards and with the home brew liquid.  Maybe if you had a signature with a bit of this kind of info it would be clear that you speak from experience -- and that it was hellish, both physically -- crashing and burning-- and emotionally, getting no support on the boards.

 

I find that hard to hear.  My experience on these boards previously was that there was lots of room for discussion and differing view points -- that our experience was understood to be our experience and thus valid.  I am very sorry that the support wasn't there for you.  And yes there have also always buddies who think that their way is the only way.

 

I understand now why you fought me so with my experience of doing very well on the home brew.  Know that I too come on here to help and receive support from buddies, although I haven't really been around for a few years now.

 

  I think that peers helping peers is the best way for forums like this to run and be helpful.  It was very difficult or me to discern whether you were indeed a peer in this hellish journey that none of us would wish on anyone.

 

 

[[he...]]

I agree! You were one of the first to support me here in November/December when I arrived to this forum.

 

I'm so glad you felt supported, Cocodot. That's why we're here. We need each other badly, because, as we all know, we don't really have anywhere else to turn.

 

Hello again, hereforhelp.  In re-reading recent posts, I realized I missed this important one from you.  I thought you might find it interesting (and perhaps validating) that I had the same experience as you with the DIY clonazepam liquid (it did not work for me either; indeed, it caused me to crash and burn). Upon further investigation, I discovered I was not the only member who had issues with it.  When I shared my experience along with empirical evidence as to why this might have occurred, I was dismissed and gaslit.

 

It is validating to hear from other people who also could not taper with that method, despite it being billed as the simplest and easiest way to taper and reduce symptoms. I'm thankful you found a way to taper that has been working for you, Libertas.

[[or...]]

Yes, all his responses on those old threads where he asserted with absolute certainty that everyone can water taper and do great, symptoms will be reduced, and tolerance withdrawal (or whatever you want to call the phenomenon) doesn't exist exasperate me. He refused to acknowledge that some people cannot use a liquid, some people will have tough symptoms as they taper, and some people started having tough symptoms before tapering while taking their med as prescribed.

 

Hello again, hereforhelp.  In re-reading recent posts, I realized I missed this important one from you.  I thought you might find it interesting (and perhaps validating) that I had the same experience as you with the DIY clonazepam liquid (it did not work for me either; indeed, it caused me to crash and burn). Upon further investigation, I discovered I was not the only member who had issues with it.  When I shared my experience along with empirical evidence as to why this might have occurred, I was dismissed and gaslit.

 

Libertas,

I'm so sorry that you had that experience on these boards and with the home brew liquid.  Maybe if you had a signature with a bit of this kind of info it would be clear that you speak from experience -- and that it was hellish, both physically -- crashing and burning-- and emotionally, getting no support on the boards.

 

I find that hard to hear.  My experience on these boards previously was that there was lots of room for discussion and differing view points -- that our experience was understood to be our experience and thus valid.  I am very sorry that the support wasn't there for you.  And yes there have also always buddies who think that their way is the only way.

 

I understand now why you fought me so with my experience of doing very well on the home brew.  Know that I too come on here to help and receive support from buddies, although I haven't really been around for a few years now.

 

  I think that peers helping peers is the best way for forums like this to run and be helpful.  It was very difficult or me to discern whether you were indeed a peer in this hellish journey that none of us would wish on anyone.

 

Your wise, and honest sharing has meant so much to me.  I feel I've made a true friend, online 

 

I believe in the Peer to Peer as well, there hasn't been that sort of thing in my life for too, many years. I was busy hiding my shame of knowing in my heart, I am addicted to such a drug.  I feel much more comfy with people that I know have been, and are now on a similar journey as myself with benzodiazapines. 

 

I learned early on to read those signatures that I kept being reminded to do myself.  I see why they are so important, not for directions, but to know a little, and sometimes a lot about the faceless people we meet here.  Sometimes it's hard for me to understand where people are coming from, but when they are willing to honestly share is a real comfort. 

 

I would hate to have to leave here, in fact I won't, not under my own steam anyway,  since I know now there are people like you here SS.  I have 2 other people I cherish and look forward to the chance of seeing, every time I come here  I do hope to meet more as well I don't want to continue this journey w/o my "support group" Denise 

 

PS I've changed my mind within the 3 short weeks I've been here, to a different method of taper now, but I can use the same spreadsheet I had already made.  I expect, from what I am studying, that I will be sort of making it up as I go, according to my body's signals.  I guess it boils down to living and learning You can have your life all planned out, but I haven't heard many say theirs turned out just how they planned.

[[Li...]]

Thank you for your compassion and understanding, SufferingSixty.    My experience was indeed traumatic.  So much so that I feel honor bound to caution other members that the ‘recipe’ you are using with diazepam may be problematic if used with clonazepam.

[[Li...]]

It is validating to hear from other people who also could not taper with that method, despite it being billed as the simplest and easiest way to taper and reduce symptoms.

 

I’m glad you found my experience validating, hereforhelp. Rest assured, you and I are not the only members who have had issues with that method. After I learned that the member who was promoting it so heavily: (1) had no personal experience making or using do-it-yourself liquids (he used a pharma/manufacturer’s liquid); (2) had no personal experience tapering clonazepam (he tapered diazepam); and (3) had no training or expertise in any discipline related to liquid drug formulation (he was a real estate agent/homebuilder with a degree in mechanical engineering) …

 

I collected ‘case studies’ of members who tried the method with clonazepam.  What I found was alarming — 50% of the members who tried it had issues. 

[[Su...]]

Thank you for your compassion and understanding, SufferingSixty.    My experience was indeed traumatic.  So much so that I feel honor bound to caution other members that the ‘recipe’ you are using with diazepam may be problematic if used with clonazepam.

 

That's really awful -- when I went to ALL liquid I had horrid two days.  I then quickly learnt that a small amount of liquid with the majority of my dose in pills was the ideal tapering method for me.

And I'm understanding that because diazepam and alprazolam create a different solution than clonazepam I was lucky.  And this method works the best for me of anything I have tried!

 

I think it's important as a fact checker that you check out that water tapering videos that are also being touted around here for accuracy.

 

And as I see you don't have a signature I will take it that your role here is different that that of a peer.

I'll keep that in mind

 

 

[[or...]]

Hi SS, good to see you today  

 

I got my refill yesterday for another 30 days, tried weighing, and cutting and I my hand jerked (involuntary movement/tremor) and I dropped my pill on the floor under my desk.  I had a real start on a panic attack or just anxiety pretty much.  Love to beat myself up when things like that happen.  All I had to do was get my little flashlight and look around for it.

 

I put the whole "kit" away in it nice little box, and back in the cupboard for today, or at least this a.m.  I realize it will take practice to make sure I cut these 1 mg C tablets as accurate as I can but I just didn't worry as I've done fine just breaking the tablets with my thumbnails.  I know that won't work eventually, but hopefully my sxs will lift as I am holding at the .75 of the 1 mg for now, maybe 2 more weeks.

 

I am not giving up on either method I've been most interested in, water and dry micro-tapers.  I have a doc appt May 9, couldn't get me in before that.  I'm going to ask about whether or not I can get the liquid C here in town.  California has it definitely but not sure my MD would go along with my plan to possibly try it. 

 

I mostly like being on here mornings as I do my best thinking early a.m.'s  but I'm trying to commit to myself to enjoy the rest of my day doing the things I love and not think about my taper, sort of one day at a time living big hugs, your buddie, Denise

 

PS sorry for not getting to other people's posts but I have to keep it simple and I have my mentors, open to others as well if I see good information "for me". It may suit someone else, but I have to weed things out and I'll make my own decisions on what I do, then I can't blame anyone else except myself  Denise

[[Pa...]]

Thank you for your compassion and understanding, SufferingSixty.    My experience was indeed traumatic.  So much so that I feel honor bound to caution other members that the ‘recipe’ you are using with diazepam may be problematic if used with clonazepam.

 

That's really awful -- when I went to ALL liquid I had horrid two days.  I then quickly learnt that a small amount of liquid with the majority of my dose in pills was the ideal tapering method for me.

And I'm understanding that because diazepam and alprazolam create a different solution than clonazepam I was lucky.  And this method works the best for me of anything I have tried!

 

I think it's important as a fact checker that you check out that water tapering videos that are also being touted around here for accuracy.

 

And as I see you don't have a signature I will take it that your role here is different that that of a peer.

I'll keep that in mind

 

Hello SufferingSixty,

 

You seem to have several misconceptions about BenzoBuddies, Libertas, and her role here.  Let’s see if I can clear them up.

 

First, BenzoBuddies does not require members to include Signatures.  There are multiple reasons why a member might choose not to provide one (e.g. privacy and security concerns).  BenzoBuddies respects this choice.  I ask that you do the same.

 

Second, like all other members of BenzoBuddies, Libertas is here to give and receive peer support.  As you can see from her profile, she has made over 4,000 posts during her time here and is a respected and valued member of our community.

 

Third, as a member of the BenzoBuddies team, Libertas performs several duties.  Serving as the community fact checker is not one of them.  Fact checking is the responsibility of each and every member.

 

Pamster

[[Su...]]

Thank you for your compassion and understanding, SufferingSixty.    My experience was indeed traumatic.  So much so that I feel honor bound to caution other members that the ‘recipe’ you are using with diazepam may be problematic if used with clonazepam.

 

That's really awful -- when I went to ALL liquid I had horrid two days.  I then quickly learnt that a small amount of liquid with the majority of my dose in pills was the ideal tapering method for me.

And I'm understanding that because diazepam and alprazolam create a different solution than clonazepam I was lucky.  And this method works the best for me of anything I have tried!

 

I think it's important as a fact checker that you check out that water tapering videos that are also being touted around here for accuracy.

 

And as I see you don't have a signature I will take it that your role here is different that that of a peer.

I'll keep that in mind

 

Hello SufferingSixty,

 

You seem to have several misconceptions about BenzoBuddies, Libertas, and her role here.  Let’s see if I can clear them up.

 

First, BenzoBuddies does not require members to include Signatures.  There are multiple reasons why a member might choose not to provide one (e.g. privacy and security concerns).  BenzoBuddies respects this choice.  I ask that you do the same.

 

Second, like all other members of BenzoBuddies, Libertas is here to give and receive peer support.  As you can see from her profile, she has made over 4,000 posts during her time here and is a respected and valued member of our community.

 

Third, as a member of the BenzoBuddies team, Libertas performs several duties.  Serving as the community fact checker is not one of them.  Fact checking is the responsibility of each and every member.

 

Pamster

 

Oh interesting Pamster.

I did think that having a sig was one of the things that is most helpful for me when interacting with folks, while understand the right for privacy.  I've just not had such heated exchanges with BB mods or Team members who did not identify themselves as peers.  Simply a missing detail for me in the trust chain.

 

I guess I thought that the interactions I was having with Team members, where I was certainly called out for "facts" I was offering in the spirit of what has worked for me and others based on sound evidence. 

 

I see that Libertas is very active here and I try to honour and respect all who come on here.  I do understand that it is a very difficult role.

So is this whole ordeal.