The Klonopin Klub#2

[[...]]

I have been dosing once but sleep is wayyyy worse than what they gave me this for.

Thank you!  Knowing that you've been doing it might give me the courage to try it too.

Same here!  Sleep is so hard to get and getting harder.  I feel your pain.  SO sorry.

 

I was having inter-dose withdrawals and moved to dosing three times a day to combat them. When I'm holding my sleep improves but when I'm actively tapering my sleep degrades until at the end of my taper cycle my sleep is really bad. Sadly I think it's just a WD sx that you may have to deal with no matter how you choose to dose. Good luck no matter what you decide to do.

 

Hugs and healing,

T

[[...]]

Thank you again, tntd!! And I'm sorry to read about your problems with tapering at a faster rate. I do hope that you have a successful "snailing along" (and maybe an "acceleration" too?) to the end of the taper... And thanks for the trigger warning !!

 

I am now on my fourth day of 3x 0.125 mg, spaced approximately 8 hrs apart. WD symptoms are significant and come in waves -- primarily "head & ear pressures", and "walking on a moving boat sensations"  (hard to find a specific term for all these), shortness of breath, and spurts of anxiety. All of it gets better in the evening and much of it can be helped by just sitting or lying down. But, as many other buddies state, the worst for me is after waking up: I churn out all the worst thoughts over and over again. Still, if I can stand this for another two weeks, I'll begin with a 10% cut.

 

This brings up a question for which I would appreciate advice from you more experienced folks: I presume the better and simpler approach is to make the cut 10% evenly of the entire 3 daily doses, rather than cut proportionally more on only 1 or 2 doses? Any thoughts would be helpful...

 

And, heretohelp, if you happen to read this, your advice would also be very much appreciated. I did buy your favorite pill splitter and must admit that it looks and feels very elegant and efficient. But, how did you align and hold the pills, and especially the pill splits, symmetrically enough to arrive at equal cuts? I tried cutting some old diazepam pills (just about the same size and type as Teva clonazepam) but failed to achieve similar weights at the 1/2 and 1/4 cuts.

 

Further, heretohelp -- I was also very impressed reading about the super-precise German balance you used for your ending, minute cuts. I used to do some lab work here and there and am familiar with that one, although a much older version -- very, very nice (do I sound jealous )?

 

Thanks folks!!!

 

Hi Gringo,

 

Thank you for your wishes for the acceleration of my taper  If I'm lucky it will happen. I always hope for the best  In any case the snailing along has been working really well for me, especially since it's a sxs based taper. I learned it from another buddies years ago. He's now benzo free and feeling a lot better!!

 

I hope your sxs abate. I think it took a few weeks for my sxs to settle after I finished moving my doses to 3x a day. I personally take the taper amount evenly out of all my doses but I'm doing a liquid taper so it's pretty easy to do that. I wish I could help you with your pill splitting issues but I've always struggled to get my pills to split evenly and I know hereforhelp has a lot more experience with that so hopefully he'll see your message and be able to help you!!

 

Hugs and healing,

 

T

[[Gr...]]

Hello tntd,

 

and thanks for your wishes regarding my WD symptoms -- so far they're tolerable most of the time and they do abate significantly when I  lie down and maybe listen to soothing music.

 

I'll figure out how to best cut the pills as I begin the actual taper. And everyone is so helpful here; I'm sure I will find the right solution as long as my poor benzoed brain can keep up.

 

Meanwhile, please keep successfully "snailing" (my spell checker wants to say "sailing" -- maybe I should wish you that too ?) away into an ever nearer benzo-less future!

 

Cheers.

[[je...]]

If you're splitting your pill and you take the dose within 24hrs, then it shouldn't really matter if it's not 100% accurate. So if you split the pill in half and you take one half in the morning and the other half of the same pill in the evening then the doses cancel each other out. Of course you don't want to be out by miles, but if you're out by just a tiny bit you should be fine.

 

I can't help you with a splitting technique unfortunately. I'm from Australia and my pills were scored so I just cut them on the line.

[[Gl...]]

I have been dosing once but sleep is wayyyy worse than what they gave me this for.

Thank you!  Knowing that you've been doing it might give me the courage to try it too.

Same here!  Sleep is so hard to get and getting harder.  I feel your pain.  SO sorry.

 

I was having inter-dose withdrawals and moved to dosing three times a day to combat them. When I'm holding my sleep improves but when I'm actively tapering my sleep degrades until at the end of my taper cycle my sleep is really bad. Sadly I think it's just a WD sx that you may have to deal with no matter how you choose to dose. Good luck no matter what you decide to do.

 

Hugs and healing,

T

 

Thank you so much, T!  I was considering holding to see if sleep improves, so I'm glad you said that.  It's encouraging because I wondered if it would improve at all, and now there's some hope.  Are sleep issues your worst withdrawal symptom?  It is for me by far.

Hugs back 

[[he...]]

This brings up a question for which I would appreciate advice from you more experienced folks: I presume the better and simpler approach is to make the cut 10% evenly of the entire 3 daily doses, rather than cut proportionally more on only 1 or 2 doses? Any thoughts would be helpful...

 

And, heretohelp, if you happen to read this, your advice would also be very much appreciated. I did buy your favorite pill splitter and must admit that it looks and feels very elegant and efficient. But, how did you align and hold the pills, and especially the pill splits, symmetrically enough to arrive at equal cuts? I tried cutting some old diazepam pills (just about the same size and type as Teva clonazepam) but failed to achieve similar weights at the 1/2 and 1/4 cuts.

 

Further, heretohelp -- I was also very impressed reading about the super-precise German balance you used for your ending, minute cuts. I used to do some lab work here and there and am familiar with that one, although a much older version -- very, very nice (do I sound jealous )?

 

Thanks folks!!!

 

Hi Gringo,

 

Many people do well with even dosing because you are ideally keeping the serum level of benzo even throughout the day, and the body tends to appreciate that, but I know people have tapered down one dose completely and have done fine. Everyone is different, and you have to do what works better for you.

 

I just turned my tablets vertically and cut along the score line. To do further cuts, I'd turn the halves vertically and cut as close to the middle as possible. As I got lower, I was able to split into pieces to make as many as 10 doses, of course sometimes I'd split slightly off and end up with too small of a piece. Sometimes I'd split spot on and get the exact weight I needed. I think at those moments an angel got its wings ("It's a Wonderful Life" reference). Here's a video made by a member here showing how he does it with the EqualSplit:

.

 

Ha... yeah, I was saving up for a laptop at the time, but instead I needed a reliable and accurate scale. Life is funny that way... I actually used it all the way down from .75 mg. It is a work horse. I need to sell it now that I've jumped. I'm hoping I'll be able to recoup some of my investment, but if not, it was more than worth it to get off this stuff and save my life. You interested? 

 

 

If I'm interrupting anyone, I'm so sorry.

So I'm curious if you all take your Klonopin in one daily dose or two doses.

I've been doing 2 doses all along, but now I'm wondering if one is just as good, and if it's more conducive to better sleep (or any sleep at all ).

Thank you!

 

Hi Glitter,

 

I had to stick with two doses all the way down to jump as I was very sensitive to any changes in dose timing/amount due to another med I take for arrhythmia and the effect it had on the pharmacodynamics of the benzo. If you can handle one dose, more power to you. I would have moved to one dose had I been able.

[[Gr...]]

 

Hi Gringo,

 

Many people do well with even dosing because you are ideally keeping the serum level of benzo even throughout the day, and the body tends to appreciate that, but I know people have tapered down one dose completely and have done fine. Everyone is different, and you have to do what works better for you.

 

I just turned my tablets vertically and cut along the score line. To do further cuts, I'd turn the halves vertically and cut as close to the middle as possible. As I got lower, I was able to split into pieces to make as many as 10 doses, of course sometimes I'd split slightly off and end up with too small of a piece. Sometimes I'd split spot on and get the exact weight I needed. I think at those moments an angel got its wings ("It's a Wonderful Life" reference). Here's a video made by a member here showing how he does it with the EqualSplit:

.

 

Ha... yeah, I was saving up for a laptop at the time, but instead I needed a reliable and accurate scale. Life is funny that way... I actually used it all the way down from .75 mg. It is a work horse. I need to sell it now that I've jumped. I'm hoping I'll be able to recoup some of my investment, but if not, it was more than worth it to get off this stuff and save my life. You interested? 

 

Hello hereforhelp -- thanks for your helpful response (I hope I didn't mess up quoting your post --still learning...)! 

 

I'll follow your advice and the suggestions in the video. concerning the pill splitting. I must say, though, that the splitter does require a steady hand and sharp eyesight. Both are a challenge for my anxious self. But, yes, it is precise, when one is careful.

 

I can certainly empathize with your desire to recoup a portion of your $$ spent on the balance. Unfortunately, I'm currently too uncertain about my future to commit to buying it (but I admit that I briefly toyed with the idea when I read your original posting). I currently use the cheapy Gemini, which seems reliable down to about +/- 3-4 mg. Have you tried eBay?

 

Best wishes!

 

 

[[he...]]

Gringo,

 

It looks like you have an end quote tag before the actual quote, but it didn't mess up my ability to read your response.

 

Many people use the GEM 20 with great success, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. It just gets harder as you get lower and can no longer get an accurate weight on small pieces of pill, but people have found ways around that too.

 

Don't worry too much about getting accurate pill splits. If you're then using a nail file to get the accurate weight, the point of the pill splitting is just to get your pill much closer to the finished weight, and then you do the fine adjustment by shaving it down. So just get close, and then you can whittle it down to size/weight.

[[...]]

Hello tntd,

 

and thanks for your wishes regarding my WD symptoms -- so far they're tolerable most of the time and they do abate significantly when I  lie down and maybe listen to soothing music.

 

I'll figure out how to best cut the pills as I begin the actual taper. And everyone is so helpful here; I'm sure I will find the right solution as long as my poor benzoed brain can keep up.

 

Meanwhile, please keep successfully "snailing" (my spell checker wants to say "sailing" -- maybe I should wish you that too ?) away into an ever nearer benzo-less future!

 

Cheers.

 

That's so funny that it want's to change it to sailing. My husband and our son and I went on a three day vacation and we did some kayaking, does that count? 

 

I'm glad you are able to find a bit of relief when you lay down and listen to soothing music. Give your brain time I'm sure it will be up to the task. I know I sometimes didn't catch on to what people were saying for weeks when I first started all this.

 

Every day we're one day closer to being benzo free!! 

 

Hugs and healing,

T

[[...]]

I have been dosing once but sleep is wayyyy worse than what they gave me this for.

Thank you!  Knowing that you've been doing it might give me the courage to try it too.

Same here!  Sleep is so hard to get and getting harder.  I feel your pain.  SO sorry.

 

I was having inter-dose withdrawals and moved to dosing three times a day to combat them. When I'm holding my sleep improves but when I'm actively tapering my sleep degrades until at the end of my taper cycle my sleep is really bad. Sadly I think it's just a WD sx that you may have to deal with no matter how you choose to dose. Good luck no matter what you decide to do.

 

Hugs and healing,

T

 

Thank you so much, T!  I was considering holding to see if sleep improves, so I'm glad you said that.  It's encouraging because I wondered if it would improve at all, and now there's some hope.  Are sleep issues your worst withdrawal symptom?  It is for me by far.

Hugs back 

 

Hi glitter,

 

I'm so glad you found what I said helpful. I don't know if sleep is my worst symptom but I think it makes the other symptoms harder to deal with or even makes them worse. I'm sure a lot of the short term memory issues I have are due to lack of good sleep. I have awful temperature dysregulation which usually has anxiety as a precursor. It doesn't sound like it would be that bad but it has been a really rough symptom for me. It goes on day and night and often shocks me out of sleep. It's really hard to know what the worst sx though, as I have so many sxs.

 

Did you decide to do a hold to see if your sleep improves?

 

Hugs and healing,

T

[[Gr...]]

Hello again experienced buddies -- I need some additional advice, please.

 

I'm now on my 14th day of what I hope is a "stabilizing hold" at 0.375 mg Clonazepam (taken 3xday in 0.125 mg doses), hoping to begin a cut-hold taper of 10% soon. I do have WD symptoms (waves of anxiety, feeling like walking on a moving boat, waves of shortness of breath/weakness, and not the best sleep). They do significantly improve if I lie down for a while, and generally ease up toward evening. Although pretty awful at times, they are tolerable but have not really changed over the last 2 weeks.

 

Given these symptoms, should I continue on this hold for another week or so, hoping for a symptom to ease? Or should I assume that these WD symptoms are to be expected (given my long-term K-dependency; see signature) and begin with the cut?

 

I understand that these questions cannot be answered with "yes-or-no". Still, I hope that you more experienced participants can offer me general guidance and examples, and thereby help me decide.

 

Many thanks !!

 

 

[[...]]

Hello again experienced buddies -- I need some additional advice, please.

 

I'm now on my 14th day of what I hope is a "stabilizing hold" at 0.375 mg Clonazepam (taken 3xday in 0.125 mg doses), hoping to begin a cut-hold taper of 10% soon. I do have WD symptoms (waves of anxiety, feeling like walking on a moving boat, waves of shortness of breath/weakness, and not the best sleep). They do significantly improve if I lie down for a while, and generally ease up toward evening. Although pretty awful at times, they are tolerable but have not really changed over the last 2 weeks.

 

Given these symptoms, should I continue on this hold for another week or so, hoping for a symptom to ease? Or should I assume that these WD symptoms are to be expected (given my long-term K-dependency; see signature) and begin with the cut?

 

I understand that these questions cannot be answered with "yes-or-no". Still, I hope that you more experienced participants can offer me general guidance and examples, and thereby help me decide.

 

Many thanks !!

 

Hi Gringo,

 

In my experience a two week hold may not be enough to see if your symptoms will abate. There is a long hold support group thread but sadly it doesn't appear that anyone has posted on it since 2017. I personally held for about six month before my symptoms reduced to the point where I felt comfortable tapering and it has made all the difference for me. It actually took a month or more before I noticed any changes in my sxs. I do understand that you have been taking these meds for a very long time but from what I understand tolerance WD is rare. That doesn't mean you don't have it though. It's a tough one to know. I personally would try to hold a bit longer before starting to taper.

 

Hugs and healing,

T

[[Gr...]]

Thank you tntd !!

 

Your suggestion does make sense, of course, and I'll wait a little longer... Or, if I feel up to it, I'll attempt a few baby steps (micro taper) and then hold, before attempting one on the order of 10%. I'm not the youngest (far from it, actually and sometimes I toy with the idea of just staying on benzos... As evil as they are, benzos did save my life a long time ago, after a short Zoloft stint almost drove me to suicide.

 

So nice to hear about the family kayak "sailing" you folks did -- must have been so much fun. Glad I could somehow tie my spell-checker into that !

 

All the best...

[[Gl...]]

Thank you tntd !!

 

Your suggestion does make sense, of course, and I'll wait a little longer... Or, if I feel up to it, I'll attempt a few baby steps (micro taper) and then hold, before attempting one on the order of 10%. I'm not the youngest (far from it, actually and sometimes I toy with the idea of just staying on benzos... As evil as they are, benzos did save my life a long time ago, after a short Zoloft stint almost drove me to suicide.

 

So nice to hear about the family kayak "sailing" you folks did -- must have been so much fun. Glad I could somehow tie my spell-checker into that !

 

All the best...

 

Hi, Gringo, I haven't yet gone back to read all your posts, so I'm not yet aware of what you're going through at the moment.

I've done a very slow micro-taper/baby steps, and I've hardly noticed any withdrawal symptoms other than recent insomnia.

Like you, benzos really helped me, and if I wasn't afraid of the medication shortages or being cut off by a doctor, I would stay on them too.  I'm just saying that to remind you and hoping you'll at least keep doing a micro-taper just in case.

[[he...]]

Gringo,

 

Just know, holding doesn't work for everyone, even though it works great for some. It did not work for me at all. I was forced to do a month-plus hold while I was trying to figure out how to taper further once pill splitting became impossible, and I did not improve during that time. If you had symptoms before starting your taper, I believe it's less likely holding will do any good, but it may be worth holding for another week or so just in case. If you're like me, you will have troubling symptoms the whole way down, hopefully improving a bit as you get lower and lower.

[[or...]]

Hello All, especially @hereforhelp as he helped me a lot when I was flopping around like dying fish trying to figure how to taper.  I am now into my 4 month of tapering and as far as the scale, and dry-cutting, practice makes almost perfect for me.  Now I cut off my dose each day from my 1 mg C, but hold at same dose until I'm sure I'm stable/ok on the last cut.  I've only tapered 27% so far and I did my taper by weight of my C, which mine also was .170 average weight, and now I am down to .124 weight of dose.  I make a little note in my journal of that to keep track, and any notes I feel are important such as wd sxs.

 

Anyway, just checking in here, and so hope others do your homework on whatever you can do to help yourself avoid wd sxs in a healthy manner, and know that if I can do it, after 35 years of benzo use, so can you.  I was totally hooked, addicted, but I was also in tolerance wd for many years, no idea how many but a whole lot.  I do have some more serious issues, like some osteoporosis, T2 Diabetes (under control with Keto foods, low carb) and I have a 3rd Degree AV Node block which I am on my 3 pacemaker since '97. So don't think I'm some super woman, and I think my best friend is both BB, and the Dr. Heather Ashton

 

I am living my life more and more each day.  I eat what I believe is the most nutritious diet for me, the ketogenic, take my dose same time each day, and am well able to go out and enjoy the Summer weather we are having.  I also do weight training at the gym, and some would be surprised what you can do with a 70 year old body   I love my walks at the beach drive best, and will put a link to just one pic   The fog in my brain has cleared a lot, less anxiety, less depression, more interest in things I like to do.  I still have windows and waves, but zero serious side-effect except some sleepless nights, but I am learning to handle lack of sleep and go about my day, Denise 

 

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/dew5zS8AQQ-nSYh74Ea7Hg.T0DZs-SFz3KOIRDrYTsr-j

 

[[Bo...]]

Great job OregonLady!!!! Happy to hear you’ve found your Goldilocks lane as people say on this journey. Hopeful you’re able to continue to live your life as you have been as you continue on your taper. Great job!!

[[or...]]

Thank you much Boges, I have a blog I post to as often as possible, and there you will see "all" my moods/personalities if you dare to stop in    I'm hoping the more normal "Denise" wins out 

[[ia...]]

Hello

I just recieved a 30 day script for the first time. I am flying and vacationing in 3 weeks, and I have panic disorder and agoraphobia. Can I put the tablet ( 1mg) under my tongue instead of swallowing it? It is NOT the dissolving wafer, but a Tablet. It is a one time script for this emergencey trip

[[or...]]

***Please disregard this reply, I did not fully understand the situation before replying to the question 

 

I've done it many times, works find just using a tablet.  Mine is just 1 mg C.  I'm facing a move back to my home-State, by choice though, and am both excited and sometimes, feel pretty scared but I'll make it.  I just try to remember it's just the C messin with my brain, and it's a liar

[[ia...]]

Thanks for sharing that experience

[[Bo...]]

I’d see if admins can chime in. If you have been off benzos for a bit, I’d still be very leery that a couple sporadically might put you back into withdrawal given your history of taking them over the years. This process can be so strange and so hopefully someone who has heard and seen a lot more with people that have been on and off at various times can chime in. Would hate for you to go back into hell bc of a couple times using it at this point. Have heard that happen to some people in my support group and my gosh I just can’t imagine.

 

Wishing you well and maybe if you have to have something see if you can try some hydroxyzine which is an anti histamine but can be helpful for people with anxiety. Or better yet inositol supplement… have heard people take this before flying and it’s natural.

[[or...]]

I'm so sorry I did not see that you had "jumped off" before I replied to your question.  I agree with Boges reply, Denise 

[[ia...]]

Thank you oregon lady and boges 11 for the replies. I have been off alprazelem for 4 years now. The script of Klonopin is just a one time thing to allow me to fly and be in another State for a week, my daughter is getting engaged and really wants me to be there. Tickets are purchased and everything is set to go in 2 weeks. I do understand your point about trying benzos again. I just dont know what to do.  Any other tips about flying and traveling ? I would rather not use benzos, I just cannot think of another choice as I am terrified of flying.

 

Thanks in advance

 

PS ...will try hydroxyzine and inositol

[[or...]]

I found a thread that might help you make a decision on this situation.  I can't imagine what you are going through as I have zero experience as I am not near "my" finishing line, but I hope this helps you get through this time.  I have to add what I really believe about benzos, and that is they cause our brains to truly mess with our heads.  Like we are in a battle against a real enemy that wants to make us believe we can't live a good life without them.  But I am not buying it, I believe our brains begin, even as we wd, that our brains begin to heal, but I know, for example, when I can't sleep at night, my brain tells me I need more clonazepam.  I have to fight that and I do it by telling myself over and over that it's just the benzo coaxing me back, and I'm not going.  When I do that I can walk through stressful situations without adding to my taper dose.  Nothing is easy about this, it's the worse "enemy" I've ever had in my life, and I'm going to win.

 

Anyway, enough of my babble, but here is the link to the conversation, again, I hope it helps you through this.  I think the "board" it's on is a great place to look for more help on this, Denise 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=279233.0