The Klonopin Klub#2

[Guest [Th...]]

 

 

I should just clarify what I've said because I'm still in withdrawal and sometimes I write without clearly distinguishing between the terminology but it's still very much in line with the concept of tolerance. There is tolerance and tolerance withdrawal. Tolerance means the drug is not delivering the same therapeutic effect anymore at the dose it was prescribed. You need more of the drug to treat the condition. Then there's tolerance withdrawal and it means you start experiencing withdrawal symptoms while on the drug because you're in tolerance. Tapering while in tolerance withdrawal is the really tough part. The reason you're struggling so badly is because tapering is supposed to give you some level of control over your symptoms. We keep referring to doing a symptoms based taper - stabilizing and letting your symptoms dictate your taper. This helps you to remain kind of functional. But if you're in tolerance withdrawal prior to tapering, you barely have control over your symptoms. When you then taper with existing symptoms, tapering can be very challenging for people.

 

Some people who go into tolerance withdrawal become worse and worse over time and they end up not being able to taper at all due to the extreme severity of their symptoms. All they're trying to do is keep their current symptoms from intensifying and they're just stuck. They can't updose or taper as it makes their symptoms acute. There was one person here who wrote her story about this as a warning to others. It stuck with me and will be with me forever. Her suffering is immense.  :'( Once you've read a story like that, you'll never want to stay on benzo's.

 

I’m just wondering how exactly I can tell the difference between tolerance withdrawal and tolerance? Hopefully my signature explains where I’m at right now. I have been feeling really terrible for a good while now since I started Klonopin at the end of October, 2022. I haven’t changed my dose or anything either and I’m getting a lot of symptoms like I used to feel when I was tapering too quickly or when I was on Valium (which I took for months and couldn’t tolerance at all) The thing is, I’m not tapering yet at all, but I want to.  Now I’m worrying lately that I’m not going to be able to taper, and after reading this I’m kinda freaking out that I was stuck while trying to go lower on the Valium for months and could that possibly be because I was in tolerance withdrawal then or have I been in tolerance withdrawal all this time? I feel pretty screwed and not very optimistic that I can taper at this point. I seem to get stuck at 3 mgs, no matter what the benzo is. 

Edited to add that while on Valium I did go back up to the dose I tried to reduce after months. I also updosed when I was tapering Xanax, although that was partly due to a far too rapid taper but I always end up “stuck” at 3 mgs. I have tried a few rescue doses of Klonopin and no relief. 

[[je...]]

Tolerance is when the dose is not delivering the therapeutic effect anymore. Let's say it was prescribed for insomnia, you then took it and slept. In tolerance you will start experiencing insomnia again on the same dose. But you don't experience withdrawal symptoms. The drug simply stopped working.

 

Tolerance withdrawal is when you start experiencing withdrawal symptoms while being on the same dose. It's like you made a cut but you never did. Here's a link to another explanation https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/08/benzodiazepine-tolerance-why-are-my-symptoms-getting-worse-on-my-medication/

 

We have lots of people tapering in tolerance withdrawal. Like I said, I even suspect I was developing tolerance withdrawal before I started tapering. It can be done. For some it's more difficult than others. Some have reported feeling better as they got lower. Ultimately it's best to just get off these meds. 

[Guest [Th...]]

Tolerance is when the dose is not delivering the therapeutic effect anymore. Let's say it was prescribed for insomnia, you then took it and slept. In tolerance you will start experiencing insomnia again on the same dose. But you don't experience withdrawal symptoms. The drug simply stopped working.

 

Tolerance withdrawal is when you start experiencing withdrawal symptoms while being on the same dose. It's like you made a cut but you never did. Here's a link to another explanation http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=9706.0

 

We have lots of people tapering in tolerance withdrawal. Like I said, I even suspect I was developing tolerance withdrawal before I started tapering. It can be done. For some it's more difficult than others. Some have reported feeling better as they got lower. Ultimately it's best to just get off these meds. 

 

Thanks for the explanation. I’m definitely in tolerance and possibly tolerance withdrawal, but yes, tolerance for sure. The link you posted didn’t work, though. I’m going to try to start liquid titration. I just want OFF these drugs!

[[je...]]

I'm sorry about the link. I see we've moved the document to another section not available to members, as we're trying to update our older documents. I've edited my previous post with a new link that is also informative if you want to have another look at my previous post. 

 

I'm sorry about the tolerance. It sucks.

[Guest [Th...]]

Thanks for the link.

[Guest [...]]

Hi jelly baby how are you doing since your jump? What symptoms are you experiencing?

 

Hi through a glass darkly,

I’m looking at your signature and see your on 3 mg of klonopin.

Do you have a plan in mind of how you’re going to taper? I was on 3mg of k myself and am now on 1.375 mg.

 

Jacky ♥️

[Guest [Th...]]

 

Hi through a glass darkly,

I’m looking at your signature and see your on 3 mg of klonopin.

Do you have a plan in mind of how you’re going to taper? I was on 3mg of k myself and am now on 1.375 mg.

 

Jacky ♥️

 

Hi Jacky, I’m considering liquid titration but still trying to figure it all out! I used to do a cut and hold method but the first time was with Xanax and I went way too fast, had to seriously updose, crossed to Valium, was on Valium for many months, (4/22-10/22) and absolutely could NOT reduce it, plus it made me quite sick, amongst other symptoms, so I switched directly to Klonopin. I’m so ready to be off benzos! If you don’t mind me asking, how did you taper Klonopin? It seems like I don’t run across many people who are on 3 mgs, or were, on here. I’ll gladly take any advice! 

[Guest [Th...]]

Jacky, I just saw your signature. So, that’s kind of how I did it with the Xanax last year. I reduced by 0.5 cuts but I was at a higher dose than 3 mgs and I just kept going down by 0.5 mgs every 2-3 weeks if I recall, and it hit me hard once I got to 2.25 mgs. I tried holding but I ended up updosing. In hindsight I think I updosed too much or didn’t give myself time to hold because my symptoms were so horrible but I don’t know. I’m thinking about trying to cut out 0.5 mgs of the Klonopin, or even 0.25 for the first few cuts and then go slower. I’m at a point where I’m miserable tapering or not so I may as well just get it going because I’m always going to be symptomatic unfortunately.

[Guest [...]]

Lookingthroughaglassdarkly,

I rarely find anyone on 3 mg of k myself but when I do I like to know the persons plan and how they do during their taper.

You’re going to be uncomfortable with every cut and if you accept that, you’ll be ok. It got bad for me when I got below 2 mg.

I had so many symptoms but most sxs would go away when I stabilized on each dose. The lower I get, the harder it gets but I want out with these pills already. I know what uncomfortability feels like and i could handle it better now and so will you.

If you keep updosing, you’ll never get off Kpin.

 

You can send me a message anytime. 👍♥️

[[Ca...]]

Hi everyone, I’ve been on a milligram and a half (1.5) of Klonopin for the last 2 1/2 years and I’m trying to find a good taper for myself. I know everybody’s story is a little bit different and what works for someone may not work for someone else. . I’d like to share some things about me. If anyone has some insight on what they think the best taper would be for me. I’m 25 years old when I was 18 I was prescribed Ativan for 3 years for panic disorder, agoraphobia, and generalized anxiety disorder, which I have suffered from for as long as I can remember I still battle with that. I ended up having breakthrough withdrawal on my Ativan, and I didn’t know it was happening to me until I found out that the Ativan was no longer working for me, my psychiatrist gave me no help. She told me that I’d have to go to detox to get off the Ativan because I had been on it for so long even though I was prescribed it I went to rehab for 5 days and they finished tapering me after only a week when I got home, I was going through Hal post acute withdrawal syndrome was some thing I hadn’t even heard of until it happened to me for two months. I was in complete hell a suicidal ideation depression. I lost 20 pounds I couldn’t eat I couldn’t sleep. My legs kicked all night long all day all night, and I just prayed that I would and it was the only time in my life that I didn’t wanna be here and then my mom died. I’ve always been agoraphobic and I knew I wouldn’t be able to attend her services without some thing so I called up my psychiatrist and she put me on Klonopin now I’ve been on Klonopin for 2 1/2 years and I desperately want to come off of it but I don’t wanna go through the torture that I did before , I wanted to get off of it sooner but this last year and a half I’ve been my grandmother’s caretaker she relied on me and I knew I couldn’t taper and take care of her.  She just passed away this month and I know that I need to get off of it now I don’t wanna live my life like this but I’m scared. Switching to volume as an an option for my psychiatrist one prescribe that. She told me to take away. .5 mg every two weeks and it’s just too hard the withdrawals unbearable. Every time I try to do that she offered to prescribe me ativan while tapering I’m not sure what to do. Please if anyone has any insight let me know I just want my life back.

[[Bo...]]

Hi Cami , please post on the tapering thread bc people will be able to help guide you to a plan that works better than what your Dr has been doing! I’m so sorry but know that you’ll get through this. First step is getting familiar with taper options and the biggest thing is to taper at 5-10% of current dose every 2-4 weeks. Changing at .5mg drops like Dr said is ridiculously large and likely why you’re struggling so so much. Ativan is another Benzo and shorter acting so trying to change to that from K which is long acting (less inter dose withdrawal symptoms ) is not the way to go (unless you can dose 4x a day where with K people can do 1-2 doses a day since stays in system longer).

 

You might have already posted in tapering forum by now but if not head over there! There are a few options in how to start a slow taper that will hopefully get you on right track! Here is a summary of what you can give to your Dr if they don’t agree with slow taper discussion…. And start looking to see if you can find a Dr in your area if current one won’t let you do at your own speed.

 

https://corxconsortium.org/wp-content/uploads/Benzo-Deprescribing.pdf

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/doctors/

 

(States listed at bottom).

 

 

 

[[Ri...]]

Hi there,

 

Wondering how everyone jumps if dosing 4 times a day? Should I drop off one dose, then the next or drop all in one go to zero?

[[Br...]]

Hi! I'm Brie. 26, she/her. I've been taking Klonopin for 3.5 years though I took it before as well, for 1.5 years I believe. .5mg, half taken in morning and night. My main pharmacy had a backorder of klonopin so I couldn't get my refill. I was forced to start tapering because I had 5 pills left. I had tapered before, now I know I did it in a very poor way, but I didn't have any memorable adverse affects so I skipped a half tablet, .25mg two nights ago because of this. I had so many symptoms within hours so I called another pharmacy and another and finally found a place that had the pills in stock.

 

I want to get off these pills because of how dangerous they are to stop all of a sudden and it seems the pharmacies are struggling to get things in. With all my research I fear that my possible one month, if the pharmacies have no klonopin next month, is far too short of a time to taper. But if I get down to 80% of my current dosage at the end of this next month and I can't get anymore pills then that will still be very dangerous so I don't know what to do.

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi there,

 

Wondering how everyone jumps if dosing 4 times a day? Should I drop off one dose, then the next or drop all in one go to zero?

 

Thats pretty much how it works, they all have to go eventually so you pick the one you need the least to eliminate and so on and so forth.  It looks like you're getting close! 

[[Pa...]]

Hi! I'm Brie. 26, she/her. I've been taking Klonopin for 3.5 years though I took it before as well, for 1.5 years I believe. .5mg, half taken in morning and night. My main pharmacy had a backorder of klonopin so I couldn't get my refill. I was forced to start tapering because I had 5 pills left. I had tapered before, now I know I did it in a very poor way, but I didn't have any memorable adverse affects so I skipped a half tablet, .25mg two nights ago because of this. I had so many symptoms within hours so I called another pharmacy and another and finally found a place that had the pills in stock.

 

I want to get off these pills because of how dangerous they are to stop all of a sudden and it seems the pharmacies are struggling to get things in. With all my research I fear that my possible one month, if the pharmacies have no klonopin next month, is far too short of a time to taper. But if I get down to 80% of my current dosage at the end of this next month and I can't get anymore pills then that will still be very dangerous so I don't know what to do.

 

Its a rude awakening to find out how terrible these pills are to get off of, isn't it?  Many members have trouble getting off of them the more times they start and stop them so what you're going through is common, its called Kindling.

 

I think you're smart to get off of the Xanax because even if the supply issues get fixed, doctors are becoming more and more hesitant to prescribe benzo's so you might as well taper off now so you can somewhat control it.

 

Are you back at your .5 mg dose and stabilized now?  I feel a slow taper is in your best interest with the confidence you'll be able to get your follow-on prescriptions, starting a taper fearing you won't have enough is stressful and will make it harder.

 

If you start working on finding pills for next month, I believe you'll find what you need.  If not, would you consider taking Clonazepam, the generic form?

[[Li...]]

One of our members has reported clonazepam supply issues in the Chicago area:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=276809.msg3448376#msg3448376

 

Is anyone experiencing similar issues elsewhere in the US?  If so, please post your response to the above thread so the information will be collected in one thread (instead of being interspersed throughout this Support Group thread).

 

The prospect of supply issues is unsettling.  fwiw … here’s my personal take on the situation based on the information currently available:

 

A shortage from one of the generic manufacturers (Accord) was reported to the FDA Drug Shortages database on March 10, 2023; other manufacturers reported they had supply available.  Accord is the preferred manufacturer for several of the Big Chain pharmacies (e.g. CVS).  Chicago is population dense so likely has a substantial number of individuals with clonazepam prescriptions. Pharmacies in that area that typically stock Accord are now scrambling to find supply from alternative manufacturers.

[[he...]]

I started hearing about this in the FB Benzo Warrior group just before the FDA announcement, but I didn't know how to post this without causing hysteria. I talked to multiple people who could no longer find Accord, one of whom is not in a big metro area. The supplies have dwindled quickly. This is a big shame. I use Accord, but I have a large reserve. I've been told the plant(s) in India were closed, but I believe, more correctly, that FDA is holding product until improvements are made at these plants or plant. The shortage information given on the FDA website seems to back that up.

[[Li...]]

I was hoping you would share your experience, hereforhelp!  Thank you. 

[[he...]]

I was hoping you would share your experience, hereforhelp!  Thank you.

 

Glad I didn't disappoint. 

[[Co...]]

How are you on the low doses Hearforhelp? You were here often when I was figuring out what was happening to me, it seems a good sign you're posting less. 

[[he...]]

How are you on the low doses Hearforhelp? You were here often when I was figuring out what was happening to me, it seems a good sign you're posting less. 

 

Hi Cocodot! To be honest, I'm struggling quite a bit. I just spend more time in a FB support group. It has been very tough in these lower doses, and I just went through a two-week-long wave due to trying coffee again. That was a delicious mistake. It seemed like it was helping me focus and be more sharp in the beginning, but by day eight, I could tell I was much worse, but I got through the aftermath, and I believe I'm back to my not-so-great baseline. I'm down to .067 mg today, and I'm currently considering jumping at .05 mg, which would be the first week of May. I just need to get off this stuff and start the real healing process. My brain and body can't take any more tough days while also continuing to deal with pills and knowing I'm still putting it in my body.

[[Lu...]]

This is sort of a two-fold question.

 

Daily K user 0.25 3x a day (5-6am, 9 am, 2pm). No idea why I started dosing that way, it was just what worked. Well now I'm going to cross taper to V. I am slowly changing my schedule so I can be at 6am/noon/bedtime since the V is more sedating.

 

My eventual hope is to get down to just two doses a day of V, larger in the evening.

 

Anyway, anyone have trouble with adjusting your K schedule!?

[[Mi...]]

There is a shortage in europe too.

All pills where out till april, and just saw

the liquid is now out, but pills should be back.

Im checking today some farmacies.

 

I got told that due to post covid,  alot of K is being prescribed.

Countries that had a ban on k in place (france) are allowing it again due to C.  The demand had almost doubled, while the suply issues are still real.

 

Im gonna stock up if i can. Lucky at small doses they last longer.

 

 

[[Co...]]

Oh wow France allowed it again? It's crazy that this happened. I really don't understand why the pharmacist gave it to me, a 25yo, without saying or asking anything cause normally they should at first filling. Especially since they have had issues for a year now with getting deliveries and should also protect their existing patients that really have it for serious use like restless legs or epilepsy.

[[ca...]]

Hi all

 

I'm new here and part of the club!

Briefly, I was 1.5 mg of KLON for 3 years and 1.0 for almost 13.

 

Jan 2023- hit a wall- tolerance and inter dose. Was likely for a while that was happening

 

Found what I hope is a benzo aware and informed dr to help me get off. firdst appt was feb 2023

 

 

Where i wasnt stabilized on meds, here's where I am now:

 

 

Currently on:

0.5 Klon and 2 mg Valium am

10 mg valium afrernoon

0.25 Klona 10 mg valium

 

I realize the equivalency is higher than Ashton's. I think Drs reasoning is stabilizing and symptom-led taper.

 

 

I feel the klon just isn't therapeutically working at all! So I'm eager to transition to all valium.

 

Not going great. HIGH anxiety

 

Please...any moral support or suggestions are welcome.

 

Thanks .

 

Cali