The Klonopin Klub#2

[[or...]]

Don't ever updose if you can help it. Always consider a longer hold before updosing. Updosing can induce kindling and make it even harder when you start to taper again.

 

Also, most percentages given are over 14 days or 28/30 days (month). So if you see someone saying they're tapering at 5%, it's most likely 5% every two weeks or 5% every month. I have always worked in percentages over 14 days, so currently I'm tapering at 10% over 14 days, but as a micro taper, where I'm reducing daily. It's easier to think this way instead of saying I'm tapering 0.714% daily.

  No, I don't plan to updose, or even think "oh well, I am feeling bad but no worries I have extra to take" that's one reason I like what was said to me earlier in the thread to just go with the whole 1 mg tablet, and I don't plan to do anything but discard the rest.

 

I've only been doing .75 from the 1 mg so I am fairly certain I'll be good at tapering a much smaller amount than I dry cut, and it will be more accurate as well, ease my mind about not sure how evenly those tablets may or may not be breaking

 

Thank you for pointing out how in some signatures I was a bit confused, but you cleared that up for me.  So people could be doing daily tapers, but just showing the whole month taper % to save space or time.  I think I have that right and it makes more sense to do so.  I think that's how I'll do my signature, but put a short note indicating that for newer folks

[[...]]

Don't ever updose if you can help it. Always consider a longer hold before updosing. Updosing can induce kindling and make it even harder when you start to taper again.

 

Also, most percentages given are over 14 days or 28/30 days (month). So if you see someone saying they're tapering at 5%, it's most likely 5% every two weeks or 5% every month. I have always worked in percentages over 14 days, so currently I'm tapering at 10% over 14 days, but as a micro taper, where I'm reducing daily. It's easier to think this way instead of saying I'm tapering 0.714% daily.

 

I agree completely about the up dosing. Kindling is a very real thing! I ended up holding for six or seven months at one point and it made a world of difference.

 

I understand what you're saying when you're talking about percentages though I hadn't thought of it so thank you for that information. I actually don't use percentages at all as I taper the same mg every day so the percentage is changing every day.

 

 

[[...]]

I forgot to mention that I have some good news which is that I am having less tremors, less tinnitus, less sweating (hot-flashes), no headaches for days, no aspirin needed! .  Knock on wood!!  I could be stabilizing on the .75 just in time to start on the 25th with my first "water-taper" amount of just .03, or .3%, hope I have that figured out.  It should come out to 9 percent a month, hope I have that right    Here's a link to just a snip of my daily cuts, comments, corrections very welcome, Denise 

 

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/6iwMfh8aSlOczNboudJBdA.7-VyUDKTlAL4k2wC4rm50A

 

I'm so glad to hear that your sxs are reducing. That's wonderful. I know you want to start tapering right away but have you thought about putting it off for a week or two to let your body really completely adjust and have a bit of rest? It could make a difference when you start tapering again.

 

[[or...]]

Yes, I know that option is open to me so I'll see how this goes between now and the 25th

[[...]]

Makes sense 

[[or...]]

I got my new jars w/plastic lids yesterday and tried a Water-titration and the lid leaked.  I made sure it was on tight, but it still leaked when I shook the jar as the woman shows in a video I posted here earlier.  Good thing I had my whole .75 of my 1 mg tablet in there.  I don't know now how secure I feel tapering with the titration (liquid) method and I'm due to start in 3 days.

 

Any help/feedback so appreciated but people have to know to be careful if you try the jar method, a jar is hard for me to drink out of and my tremor came on real bad when I realized I might not get me full .75 of 1 mg.  I probably am panicking and so sorry, very emotional this a.m.  My whole plan may have to change.

 

The good news is, I had bought some good razor blades when a stupid pill-cutter did not work to cut my small pills.  So, some wonderful person had posted how easily they could cut their pills, more evenly, with a one-sided razor blade and I ordered some.

 

I still have such a tremor, but I'll do some of the relaxation methods I've learned before I try to dry cut, if that's what I decide.  Pretty sure I want to now, it all sounded so simple and efficient.  It's probably just the benzo trying to trick me into dispair 

[[Su...]]

I got my new jars w/plastic lids yesterday and tried a Water-titration and the lid leaked.  I made sure it was on tight, but it still leaked when I shook the jar as the woman shows in a video I posted here earlier.  Good thing I had my whole .75 of my 1 mg tablet in there.  I don't know now how secure I feel tapering with the titration (liquid) method and I'm due to start in 3 days.

 

Any help/feedback so appreciated but people have to know to be careful if you try the jar method, a jar is hard for me to drink out of and my tremor came on real bad when I realized I might not get me full .75 of 1 mg.  I probably am panicking and so sorry, very emotional this a.m.  My whole plan may have to change.

 

The good news is, I had bought some good razor blades when a stupid pill-cutter did not work to cut my small pills.  So, some wonderful person had posted how easily they could cut their pills, more evenly, with a one-sided razor blade and I ordered some.

 

I still have such a tremor, but I'll do some of the relaxation methods I've learned before I try to dry cut, if that's what I decide.  Pretty sure I want to now, it all sounded so simple and efficient.  It's probably just the benzo trying to trick me into dispair 

 

Ho OL,

I'm sorry you had such a difficult experience.  I use jelly jars with the replaceable sealer thingy.  They don't leak for sure.  I also make a batch of liquid and draw up my dose with an oral syringe that i put directly into my mouth -- not wanting to lose a drop.  Tricky to do if you have a tremor I know.

 

Am I understanding that the method for mixing up a liquid dose is just with water?  All my research, am piggy backing on lots of people on this boards say that benzos do not dissolve in water.  If you are mixing up one dose at a time I guess that wouldn't matter, not trying to add another concern for you.

 

Just wanting to offer accurate info for what I have found worked for me.

Wishing you the best

SS

[[or...]]

mine totally dissolved within like a minute, Klonopin is what I have.  It was broken in 2 pieces, and because cold water hurts my teeth a bit, I used slightly warm water. 

 

I thought the part I would eventually draw out is the part you discard, then drink the rest??  Maybe you are saying that you discard with syringe and then suck the rest up, and I could do that as I got some way big syringes that are big enough to do that.  What a pain to suck it all out of a syringe.  I honestly feel I am losing here with panic/anxiety.  I have more withdrawals than I realize since going down a whole quarter tablet of my 1 mg, just by cutting  before I knew anything about other methods.

 

You are trying to help me, I appreciate it so much, I realize I am not in my right mind, not fully, so I re-read what people are saying to understand.  But sometimes I still make a lot of mistake both in reading and typing.  Thanks for helping me, it was like sending up a red-flag when I knew you are way more experienced

 

 

 

 

[[Li...]]

…. piggy backing on lots of people on this boards say that benzos do not dissolve in water.  If you are mixing up one dose at a time I guess that wouldn't matter, not trying to add another concern for you.

 

Just checking … are you aware that member-generated content is not fact-checked?  Members can post anything they want as long as they follow forum guidelines.  Consequently, I encourage you to verify claims made here by doing your own research using credible, external sources. 

 

Case in point, some benzodiazepines are soluble in water (e.g. Librium, Tranxene, Versed, Dalmane).  In other words, different benzodiazepines have different solubilities in different solvents.  For example, diazepam has a much higher solubility in ethanol (alcohol) than clonazepam.

 

[[Su...]]

…. piggy backing on lots of people on this boards say that benzos do not dissolve in water.  If you are mixing up one dose at a time I guess that wouldn't matter, not trying to add another concern for you.

 

Just checking … are you aware that member-generated content is not fact-checked?  Members can post anything they want as long as they follow forum guidelines.  Consequently, I encourage you to verify claims made here by doing your own research using credible, external sources. 

 

Case in point, some benzodiazepines are soluble in water (e.g. Librium, Tranxene, Versed, Dalmane).  In other words, different benzodiazepines have different solubilities in different solvents.  For example, diazepam has a much higher solubility in ethanol (alcohol) than clonazepam.

 

Libertas I'm sure not trying to offer information that is incorrect.

Valium is not dissolvable in water, nor was the Xanax I was taking and saying that would have been more accurate and I could have  followed with a citation.

 

I just know I'm more comfortable with a solution than a suspension for the level of accuracy that I require for my cuts.

 

There are trends on these boards I've noticed and right now it seems to be water titration rather than a solution requiring a different solvent.

Whatever works for us and is scientifically sound I say!

Thanks

[[or...]]

…. piggy backing on lots of people on this boards say that benzos do not dissolve in water.  If you are mixing up one dose at a time I guess that wouldn't matter, not trying to add another concern for you.

 

Just checking … are you aware that member-generated content is not fact-checked?  Members can post anything they want as long as they follow forum guidelines.  Consequently, I encourage you to verify claims made here by doing your own research using credible, external sources. 

 

Case in point, some benzodiazepines are soluble in water (e.g. Librium, Tranxene, Versed, Dalmane).  In other words, different benzodiazepines have different solubilities in different solvents.  For example, diazepam has a much higher solubility in ethanol (alcohol) than clonazepam.

I listen to more what people with experience in benzos themselves have to say than a fact-checker who I know not where their info came from, especially when it comes to "my own health".  My professional MD, Cardio, and Neuro seem to be short on education of Benzodiazepine dangers of long use.  Also, the neuro who I only had to see once said that I was not addicted, I was just tolerant of the drug and if that were true, what about just one wd sx which including the whole left side of my body going numb for 3 days.  He wanted me to take larger doses and I said hell no, not if that's what happens when I'm only taking 1 mg.

 

Who do we have doing the fact-checking would be my first question before even ever going to Snopes again.

 

[[Kl...]]

Please call a pharmacist to learn if a particular medication is dissolved in water or alcohol.  I checked with mine and did learn my brand of Clonazapam does not dissolve in water.  It looks dissolved but it is not.  I used 1 ml of Titos vodka to dissolve my tab and then added enough water to make my titration liquid.  Things went much more smoothly after I did this.

 

Klonkar

[[or...]]

Please call a pharmacist to learn if a particular medication is dissolved in water or alcohol.  I checked with mine and did learn my brand of Clonazapam does not dissolve in water.  It looks dissolved but it is not.  I used 1 ml of Titos vodka to dissolve my tab and then added enough water to make my titration liquid.  Things went much more smoothly after I did this.

 

Klonkar

 

I'm trying to see this a.m. if I can be prescribed liquid K or C because I was wondering if those tablets dissolving are not just dissolving in maybe "too" large of chunks that I really can't see.  They do indeed dissolve, but enough is the question 

[[Su...]]

Please call a pharmacist to learn if a particular medication is dissolved in water or alcohol.  I checked with mine and did learn my brand of Clonazapam does not dissolve in water.  It looks dissolved but it is not.  I used 1 ml of Titos vodka to dissolve my tab and then added enough water to make my titration liquid.  Things went much more smoothly after I did this.

 

Klonkar

 

I'm trying to see this a.m. if I can be prescribed liquid K or C because I was wondering if those tablets dissolving are not just dissolving in maybe "too" large of chunks that I really can't see.  They do indeed dissolve, but enough is the question 

 

looking as though they have dissolved does not mean they have necessarily dispersed into the liquid.    I look to make a solution where the particles of medicine are equally distributed throughout the liquid.  Just using water can create a suspension where the particles can be shaken into equal distribution but then can fall out - to the bottom I'm guessing. 

 

Do speak to a pharmacist about this - they will probably concur that K does not form a solution with just water -- it requires a solvent.

 

I'm back to part liquid as my foray into dry tapering was not helpful -- splat --    But then I need to taper less than .01 a day.  I need to be very precise in my taper methods.

SS

[[or...]]

Please call a pharmacist to learn if a particular medication is dissolved in water or alcohol.  I checked with mine and did learn my brand of Clonazapam does not dissolve in water.  It looks dissolved but it is not.  I used 1 ml of Titos vodka to dissolve my tab and then added enough water to make my titration liquid.  Things went much more smoothly after I did this.

 

Klonkar

 

I'm trying to see this a.m. if I can be prescribed liquid K or C because I was wondering if those tablets dissolving are not just dissolving in maybe "too" large of chunks that I really can't see.  They do indeed dissolve, but enough is the question 

 

looking as though they have dissolved does not mean they have necessarily dispersed into the liquid.    I look to make a solution where the particles of medicine are equally distributed throughout the liquid.  Just using water can create a suspension where the particles can be shaken into equal distribution but then can fall out - to the bottom I'm guessing. 

 

Do speak to a pharmacist about this - they will probably concur that K does not form a solution with just water -- it requires a solvent.

 

I'm back to part liquid as my foray into dry tapering was not helpful -- splat --    But then I need to taper less than .01 a day.  I need to be very precise in my taper methods.

SS

Hi SS, I almost didn't see your message and I don't want to miss any, you've been such a help to me.  Could you be sure to put your reply "after" the last quote that looks just like this ?  If you don't it shows up in the purple section and I and maybe others won't see it 

[[Su...]]

Please call a pharmacist to learn if a particular medication is dissolved in water or alcohol.  I checked with mine and did learn my brand of Clonazapam does not dissolve in water.  It looks dissolved but it is not.  I used 1 ml of Titos vodka to dissolve my tab and then added enough water to make my titration liquid.  Things went much more smoothly after I did this.

 

Klonkar

 

I'm trying to see this a.m. if I can be prescribed liquid K or C because I was wondering if those tablets dissolving are not just dissolving in maybe "too" large of chunks that I really can't see.  They do indeed dissolve, but enough is the question 

 

looking as though they have dissolved does not mean they have necessarily dispersed into the liquid.    I look to make a solution where the particles of medicine are equally distributed throughout the liquid.  Just using water can create a suspension where the particles can be shaken into equal distribution but then can fall out - to the bottom I'm guessing. 

 

Do speak to a pharmacist about this - they will probably concur that K does not form a solution with just water -- it requires a solvent.

 

I'm back to part liquid as my foray into dry tapering was not helpful -- splat --    But then I need to taper less than .01 a day.  I need to be very precise in my taper methods.

SS

Hi SS, I almost didn't see your message and I don't want to miss any, you've been such a help to me.  Could you be sure to put your reply "after" the last quote that looks just like this

?  If you don't it shows up in the purple section and I and maybe others won't see it 

 

Yep yep, sometimes I miss that. 

[[or...]]

you know what's really irritating is that darn video that's all over the internet This one below to be exact and I'll just say it this way so not to get in any trouble, this video does/did not work for me.  Clonazepam does not dissolve completely in water alone and I almost started tapering using the so-called taper-method shown in this video:

 

[[or...]]

you know what's really irritating is that darn video that's all over the internet This one below to be exact and I'll just say it this way so not to get in any trouble, this video does/did not work for me.  Clonazepam does not dissolve completely in water alone and I almost started tapering using the so-called taper-method shown in this video:

 

 

Ok, yes it is easy to miss and I couldn't remember what I'd seen of your other replies SS, so sorry as I thought you didn't know

[[Li...]]

Please call a pharmacist to learn if a particular medication is dissolved in water or alcohol.  I checked with mine and did learn my brand of Clonazapam does not dissolve in water.  It looks dissolved but it is not.  I used 1 ml of Titos vodka to dissolve my tab and then added enough water to make my titration liquid.  Things went much more smoothly after I did this.

 

Klonkar

 

I’m delighted your do-it-youself (DIY) clonazepam liquid worked for you.  The pharmacist you called was correct - clonazepam has very low solubility in water. However, please be aware that …

 

According to the experimental solubility study cited below, 1mL of 40% vodka would not be sufficient to dissolve 1mg of pure clonazepam powder (much less 1mg of clonazepam powder mixed with other ingredients and pressed into tablets).  Moreover, even if some of the clonazepam in your tablet did actually dissolve, adding more water to your tablet/vodka slurry decreased the concentration of alcohol in the liquid. This raises the possibility of precipitation - i.e. clonazepam that did go into solution when you added the vodka may have precipitated back out of solution when you added more water because the concentration of alcohol in your DIY liquid decreased.

 

Citation:

Ali Shayanfar, Mohammad A. A. Fakhree, William E. Acree , Jr. and Abolghasem Jouyban. Solubility of Lamotrigine, Diazepam, and Clonazepam in Ethanol + Water Mixtures at 298.15 K, J. Chem. Eng. Data, 2009, 54 (3), pp 1107–1109, December 22, 2008.

[[Su...]]

you know what's really irritating is that darn video that's all over the internet This one below to be exact and I'll just say it this way so not to get in any trouble, this video does/did not work for me.  Clonazepam does not dissolve completely in water alone and I almost started tapering using the so-called taper-method shown in this video:

 

 

Ok, yes it is easy to miss and I couldn't remember what I'd seen of your other replies SS, so sorry as I thought you didn't know

 

 

 

Yes I find this video to be so imprecise as to be cringeworthy.  At least this method would not work for me.  The measuring tool she is using is meant for baking not measuring precise dosages of medicine.... And the thick line on a piece of taper scares me.  Even when I worked as a carpenter we would ask which side of the line to cut to!  I know my body is extremely sensitive so I require precision in measuring.

Apparently she got off using this method so here's to success

[[Su...]]

Please call a pharmacist to learn if a particular medication is dissolved in water or alcohol.  I checked with mine and did learn my brand of Clonazapam does not dissolve in water.  It looks dissolved but it is not.  I used 1 ml of Titos vodka to dissolve my tab and then added enough water to make my titration liquid.  Things went much more smoothly after I did this.

 

Klonkar

 

I’m delighted your do-it-youself (DIY) clonazepam liquid worked for you.  The pharmacist you called was correct - clonazepam has very low solubility in water. However, please be aware that …

 

According to the experimental solubility study cited below, 1mL of 40% vodka would not be sufficient to dissolve 1mg of pure clonazepam powder (much less 1mg of clonazepam powder mixed with other ingredients and pressed into tablets).  Moreover, even if some of the clonazepam in your tablet did actually dissolve, adding more water to your tablet/vodka slurry decreased the concentration of alcohol in the liquid. This raises the possibility of precipitation - i.e. clonazepam that did go into solution when you added the vodka may have precipitated back out of solution when you added more water because the concentration of alcohol in your DIY liquid decreased.

 

Citation:

Ali Shayanfar, Mohammad A. A. Fakhree, William E. Acree , Jr. and Abolghasem Jouyban. Solubility of Lamotrigine, Diazepam, and Clonazepam in Ethanol + Water Mixtures at 298.15 K, J. Chem. Eng. Data, 2009, 54 (3), pp 1107–1109, December 22, 2008.

 

Yes  -- I don't have a citation here--  but builder oft quoted that 2ml of alcohol were required for every 1mg of benzo.  yes he said benzo, did not differentiate.  I make sure to dissolve things for along time to insure a solution - and I mix the solution carefully before ingesting. 

[[or...]]

I'm falling apart this a.m.  I really need some help.  Just everything is going wrong this a.m. it's threatening to overwhelm me I'm in tears first of all for the limited info on tapering, and also what I would call false information given in some videos.

 

So I'm trying to be assigned to a new doctor and can't get one so far.  My MD has MS and he cannot see patients in person at all any longer, only video calls.  So I have been trying to get the in-person doctor that takes my insurance (I live too far from good medical) and the Dr. Josh, the in-person doctor may not be able to take me on as a new patient.  I need help getting the liquid K or C whichever brand.

 

I'm also having migraine which has lasted 3 days now.  I'm 70 probably a lot of my problem, and weaned off .25 of C/K since 25th of March, did real good til a few days ago when I got the migraine.  Mine are debilitating, I've also given up on trying to wean any further because my plan was to follow this video which is garbage in my book  :'(

[[Su...]]

I'm falling apart this a.m.  I really need some help.  Just everything is going wrong this a.m. it's threatening to overwhelm me I'm in tears first of all for the limited info on tapering, and also what I would call false information given in some videos.

 

So I'm trying to be assigned to a new doctor and can't get one so far.  My MD has MS and he cannot see patients in person at all any longer, only video calls.  So I have been trying to get the in-person doctor that takes my insurance (I live too far from good medical) and the Dr. Josh, the in-person doctor may not be able to take me on as a new patient.  I need help getting the liquid K or C whichever brand.

 

I'm also having migraine which has lasted 3 days now.  I'm 70 probably a lot of my problem, and weaned off .25 of C/K since 25th of March, did real good til a few days ago when I got the migraine.  Mine are debilitating, I've also given up on trying to wean any further because my plan was to follow this video which is garbage in my book  :'(

 

Oh I'm so sorry that you can't get any medical support from the people you want.  The truly makes a stressful situation even more stressful.

 

what has worked for me Oregon Lady when I get super overwhelmed is to hold for a bit.  You've done a large taper in a short amount of time and that can catch up with us.  Holding for a bit can allow the sxs, cog fog, and anxiety to settle.  It allows me to not obsess about my taper for a few days and generally allow things to get a tad better.  There is little downside to holding -- even maybe a bit a reward and/or a reprieve from all you've tapered in the last while.

Us Elders need to take care of ourselves a little much gingerly.

 

And I tell you if I can get to where I am, you can do it for sure!!

FWIW

[[or...]]

I'm falling apart this a.m.  I really need some help.  Just everything is going wrong this a.m. it's threatening to overwhelm me I'm in tears first of all for the limited info on tapering, and also what I would call false information given in some videos.

 

So I'm trying to be assigned to a new doctor and can't get one so far.  My MD has MS and he cannot see patients in person at all any longer, only video calls.  So I have been trying to get the in-person doctor that takes my insurance (I live too far from good medical) and the Dr. Josh, the in-person doctor may not be able to take me on as a new patient.  I need help getting the liquid K or C whichever brand.

 

I'm also having migraine which has lasted 3 days now.  I'm 70 probably a lot of my problem, and weaned off .25 of C/K since 25th of March, did real good til a few days ago when I got the migraine.  Mine are debilitating, I've also given up on trying to wean any further because my plan was to follow this video which is garbage in my book  :'(

 

Oh I'm so sorry that you can't get any medical support from the people you want.  The truly makes a stressful situation even more stressful.

 

what has worked for me Oregon Lady when I get super overwhelmed is to hold for a bit.  You've done a large taper in a short amount of time and that can catch up with us.  Holding for a bit can allow the sxs, cog fog, and anxiety to settle.  It allows me to not obsess about my taper for a few days and generally allow things to get a tad better.  There is little downside to holding -- even maybe a bit a reward and/or a reprieve from all you've tapered in the last while.

Us Elders need to take care of ourselves a little much gingerly.

 

And I tell you if I can get to where I am, you can do it for sure!!

FWIW

 

Thanks much SS, I couldn't have read anything better than what you just wrote me.  Yes, I'm definitely holding, but your reasoning was right on.  I'm fixing some breakfast now and especially since your note, I am already calming down.  I've been in rough territory before and somehow made it through, but I know this is the biggest "mountain" I may ever climb.  But I won't give up and go back like I did when I cut too much, too fast, due to lack of knowledge on my doctors part.  He's a good man, but he just didn't know what I am learning now about the drug.

[[he...]]

I could not do a liquid taper. I tried two different formulations, and neither worked for me. We're all very different.