The Klonopin Klub#2

[[ab...]]

Hopefully a Klonopin veteran replies. Any advice on your K taper? What you did right? What you would do different in hindsight? I am at .07mg of K and you can see my history in my signature. Feeling stuck here-BAD symptoms so holding a bit. Would love any other advice. <3

 

How are you doing nervouswreck? I hope your symptopms are improving!

[[Up...]]

Hi Jellybaby and others here,

 

I made and started my second cut last week. I am down to 1 1/2 pills each night and so far no issues. If the medication is dispersed right (it's a generic pill) I'm down to 1.5 mgs per night. 25% total reduction so far.

[[je...]]

Hi Jellybaby and others here,

 

I made and started my second cut last week. I am down to 1 1/2 pills each night and so far no issues. If the medication is dispersed right (it's a generic pill) I'm down to 1.5 mgs per night. 25% total reduction so far.

 

That's wonderful news! Glad things are going well.

[[Up...]]

Is it okay to keep taking it each night as long as I'm taking less and less over time?

[[je...]]

Yes, you have to take it consistently (daily at the same time) to keep your blood serum levels stable and avoid serious withdrawal.

 

As we keep reducing our dose over time the brain is adjusting to less and less benzos and recovering from it. 

[[Iv...]]

I learn so much reading all of the Klonopin stories.  I got stuck at about .33 mgs a day, because of stress -- tapering definitely got rougher once I went below .4 mgs and I don't think anything has healed since then, judging from the tinnitus I have had for a year now.  I am breaking my taper into slow steps - next goal is to get to .3 mgs a day.  Should take a month. After that I may hold again for quite awhile.  I know long holds aren't always recommended, but I am able to function and feel OK most days.

 

My taper also seemed to get rougher after dropping below .4 mg. I'm glad you've been able to get down further. Hopefully you can get down to .3 mg soon. Long holds work for some, but for the rest of us, they don't work at all. I had symptoms before starting my taper, so some neurotoxicity was already happening. I believe that's why I do not benefit from a hold. My baseline includes symptoms. And honestly, the quicker I can tolerably get this drug out of my system, the better. I believe it is causing more problems the longer it is in me.

 

I will be keeping up with how the rest of your taper goes then, you are getting near the end of your taper now, congrats!  I hope to follow asap. 

[[he...]]

I will be keeping up with how the rest of your taper goes then, you are getting near the end of your taper now, congrats!  I hope to follow asap.

 

Wishing you the best, Ivy. I'm glad you're able to hold and feel OK.

 

I'm down to .138 mg today. I've had the flu for the last few days, so I've had some relief from WD symptoms while being hammered with flu symptoms. I'm feeling a bit better today, so I'll probably be seeing my WD symptoms again. I just slowed back down from trying to move at a faster linear rate of .0015 mg/day. It was too fast, so I'm now doing 8%/14 daily. We'll see how that goes for a bit. If things improve enough, I'll speed up a bit more. I'm looking to be at .125 mg by the middle of December. Really hoping symptoms will start to reduce as I get lower so I can move a bit faster and get off this stuff, but we shall see. I just feel like I'm one of those people who won't see much relief until he's off.

[[ts...]]

What taper methods are ya'll using? I can't imagine cutting my pills into less than .125!

[[ne...]]

I have a liquid compound of Klonopin from a compounding pharmacy 

[[he...]]

I'm using a good scale, a good pill splitter, a decent nail file, and a whole lot of patience.

 

I could not tolerate a liquid formulation. Wish I could have. I would love to gain back all the hours I spend prepping doses.

[[St...]]

Hi Everyone,

 

Can I be a part of the Klub? 

 

I think I've finally wrapped my brain around the fact this is gonna take a minute and I sure would enjoy the company. 

 

I've learned a lot, and still learning.  Today is day 8 since my most recent cut.  I had little sleep 2 nights ago.  I get frustrated the next day and notice anxiety increases.  I'm trying to break nap or attempts to nap in order to do what I can physically to improve nighttime sleep.

 

I've noticed that the busier I am outside of the house the better I do.  Even if I force myself to get out and interact with life going on I feel better. 

 

Thank you all for so much help, a lot of familiar names in here!  Hope you are all having a good evening. 

 

Rae

[[je...]]

Welcome to club Rae! Yeah, sleep is a pretty elusive commodity around here. I also find when I'm really busy and completely distracted I do better.

 

It's good to hear you know what to do to feel better and forcing yourself into those habits. 

[[Co...]]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm very new to Clonazepam, withdrawal, tapering and this forum. I could use some input & support. My GP prescribed me Clonazepam for a mild case of insomnia when I specifically asked for a non-dependency forming sleeping aid. As many others here it seemed, I was not warned of the risks and she is very much underestimating the tapering process. I had been taking 5 drops (=0.5 mg) since the 13th of October 2022. I took it for 12 days. On the 25th of October I reduced to 4 drops. Looking back, I had a tremoring eyelid sometimes and some pins and needles in my hands/legs but had no idea these were withdrawal symptoms as I had no idea it's a dangerous drug.

 

On the 4th of November, my GP then made me reduce to 3 drops (=0.3 mg). All hell broke loose: I started tremoring everywhere, lots of pins and needles in extremities and on my back, burning scalp, arms, face, extreme nausea and vomiting (I couldn't hold anything in for an entire week and ended up in the ER where they send me away without IV and recommended alternate use in the next tapering part so 3 drops couple days then one day 2 drops then 3 again, etc.), extreme migraines, insomnia, feeling detached from my emotions, sharp ear pain, muscle spasms, heartbeat in my ear, heart palpitations, etc. I contacted her after looking up that this is withdrawal, she first rejected that idea and mentioned a viral infection, then later she realized it was withdrawal but after those first two weeks in November, she now states it's mainly psychological and that I'm merely nervous to taper off further. I'm shocked. She's been my family GP for 25 years and normally gives sound advice. I contacted a psychiatrist who also mentioned it's a safe drug. She too mentions mere tension complaints after two weeks from the last drop. I then found a different psychiatrist who told me (unfortunately too late) that clonazepam should only be prescribed for severe neurological disorders, not as a mere sleeping aid. However, he does not care about tapering or guiding me through this process at all. I realize I'll have to use these doctors for future prescriptions only and that although I used this for only 12 days, I am physically dependent on this drug, so it will take a long time to get off of it.

 

In short, I'm in quite a pickle, experiencing full-blown withdrawal symptoms after merely 12 days of use with no professional guidance. The use of this drug and the recommendations of how to taper off of it that I've received are extremely dangerous (also the alternating drops thing). I now found this forum and the Ashton Manual, realizing that these cuts are insanely large and have been way too fast! 40% in basically a week time.

 

Since the 4th of November I have been holding on to 3 drops (with absolutely no intention of reducing further in weeks/months time whatever any doctor says). I plan on listening to my body and reducing very slowly after stabilizing from now on in smaller increments. I managed to get a dilution from a pharmacy for part of my liquid already. I understand members can merely make suggestions or share their own experiences on this forum. However, as I still have many debilitating symptoms and the not being able to eat, drink and sleep consistently are key, I'm wondering whether it would still make sense to updose after 6 weeks? Does anybody have any experience with this? I'm very concerned about more long-lasting glutamate damage now.

 

Kind regards,

 

Coco

[[je...]]

Hi Coco

 

I am so sorry for what you've been through. I'm still amazed that 2 weeks use could result in such severe withdrawal symptoms. It just seem so unfair. I can share my story with you. You can look at my signature. I had a 75% and a 50% cut consecutively. On both occassions I became progressively worse and hit the worst patch at around 15-17 days after the cuts. After my second cut I was bedridden and not functioning. In both instances I updosed at around day 18 and felt an immediate improvement the next day and almost back to normal. But I have to mention that in this instance I seem to be an anomaly on here. Most people do not recover that quickly from an updose - it can take days to weeks. I tend to be an advocate for updosing because I suffered intensely and it helped me get back on my feet and resume my taper from a place of stability. From what I've seen on the forum updosing tend to work if your cuts have been too big.

 

The only way you'll know whether an updose will be effective is to try it. So if you're feeling really miserable and you need relief then it might be worth a shot. If you feel you can wait it out, and you're not suffering too badly then holding would be the better option. This is the frustrating thing about benzo's - we can share our experiences but it's not a one-size-fits-all. What works for one, might not work for somebody else.

[[Co...]]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Jelly baby, and congratulations on jumping! I have been able to at least eat the last couple of days so I hope I can wait it out by holding more.

 

It's very unfortunate indeed that I got dependent after such short time and didn't receive proper medical advise (like so many of us).

 

Coco

[[je...]]

So glad to hear you've been able to eat. I hope you continue to get better!

[[Up...]]

Hey guys,

I have a burning question. As some of you know I have begun tapering from Klonopin. However, it has never really been explained to me as to why I need to get off. The only explanations I've ever really gotten from doctors is that Klonopin is addictive and can lead to dependence. Also something regarding dementia. When I had my anxiety attack 4 plus years ago,  I feel like Ativan and Klonopin gave me my life back. For most of 2018 I felt physically sick and when I got Klonopin end of 2018 life got better. I started taking interest in my hobbies again. I know doctors are afraid of abuse/tolerance but I have never taken more than prescribed, or even had alcohol. I feel like I'm being forced into this. I'm not trying to create a pro benzo argument here I'm just curious as to why. People say I'll be all the better for getting off but I just don't see how as I'm not abusing the drug. Can someone please clarify with me on this?

[[Ro...]]

Good question.  The Ashton manual says one shouldn't feel pressured to get off benzos.  My psychiatrist told me that benzos can lead to dementia, but in researching this, I've only found an association and not a causation between the two.

 

One good reason to get off benzos is the apparent dwindling number of doctors willing to prescribe them.  I'd hate to be sitting at 1 or 2 mg of clonazepam and have no supply available for me to taper.

 

There is a tendency for one to need an increased dosage of benzos because of tolerance withdrawal.  Increased doses can lead to new or increased side effects, such as falls and depression. And, of course, it will take longer to taper from a higher dosage, should one decide to do that.

[[je...]]

The problem with these drugs is you are very likely to develop tolerance if you continue using them long-term. Meaning you'll start feeling withdrawal while taking your prescribed dosage. In hindsight I realise I was starting to develop tolerance before tapering. I was having insomnia, anxiety and memory issues while using Klonopin as prescribed. I didn't have these problems prior to starting the drug. When you're in tolerance you can develop more and more symptoms as your body becomes used to the drug. The only way out is to increase your dose (but you'll become tolerant to this higher dose as well) or to taper. Tapering while in tolerance is extremely painful.

 

You might want to read this warning from someone who thought they could stay on the drug for life http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=259122.0

[[Up...]]

Thank you JellyBaby. I think that was something that I needed to read. It's just that I've read so many conflicting things on other websites and Google about how benzos "saved someone's life", "helped them function", "how they've been on benzos for decades and used them without issue." I knew I was going to have to get off at some point but it was never really explained to me why, even after I met my new doctor. And I started to question it. Not anymore. I now know what I must do. Get off the K!

[[je...]]

It's important to ask these questions Leo. Withdrawal is tough and you need the right motivation to keep going. I do think there are people who stay on  these for life without problems but I'm not willing to risk it. I've read too many horror stories and the consequences are too dire to risk it. Benzo's saved my life too, or so I thought. After 7 years of severe pain and nothing helping, the pain stopped the moment I took my first klonopin. However it's only symptomatic relief. The thought of the pain plus an endless black hole of withdrawal symptoms returning and ruling my life is not an option. I would rather taper and have some control over the process than be in 24/7 agony and living with regret. It's just not worth it.

[[Fr...]]

Hello All, it’s been great reading your taper stories! I have been on benzodiazepines most of my adult life (age 46) and I don’t want to be on them the rest of my life… I have only recently started learning what it does to your memory.

I’m currently on 1.5/mgs klonipin daily, mostly at night as one of my big issues insomnia.

I was last benzo free for about 8 months in 2013, and I experienced major sleeplessness and anxiety along with social anxiety that made it hard to function.

So I went back on it but at the reduced dose I’m on now and I’ve mostly been in a holding pattern since then.

However, I’m also a chronic pain patient and now dependent on opiates… when I run low on opiates then klonipin is my go-to. In the past approximately nine years I became double-addicted… It compounds the issue, that’s for sure. If there’s a forum for people in my situation please direct me there lol

I think I can slowly cut back on klonipin, but getting off it altogether has seemed very unlikely at best. This board has given me some hope. I hope to very gradually taper off. I have tapered off in the past several times but not properly since around 2003. In those days it took me about four months if memory serves.

Thanks to all who share their successes!

[[ne...]]

Another sub that seems to discuss compounded problems (besides here and the Facebook groups) is on Reddit under Benzo Recovery. Wishing you the best!

[[ro...]]

The problem with these drugs is you are very likely to develop tolerance if you continue using them long-term. Meaning you'll start feeling withdrawal while taking your prescribed dosage. In hindsight I realise I was starting to develop tolerance before tapering. I was having insomnia, anxiety and memory issues while using Klonopin as prescribed. I didn't have these problems prior to starting the drug. When you're in tolerance you can develop more and more symptoms as your body becomes used to the drug. The only way out is to increase your dose (but you'll become tolerant to this higher dose as well) or to taper. Tapering while in tolerance is extremely painful.

 

You might want to read this warning from someone who thought they could stay on the drug for life http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=259122.0

 

Hi, I just found the KK today and came across this post by Jelly Baby. I've been on BB for almost 4 months and I had never seen it said that "TAPERING WHILE IN TOLERANCE IS EXTREMELY PAINFUL". I would love more information on that.

 

I have been on Lorazepam and Clonazepam for years. Went off Lorazepam for a short time while pregnant (in 1999) and put back on it as well as Clonazepam. I don't even really know the dates and I'm pretty sure I was put back on while still breast feeding my daughter. That scares me now because I knew that I had to go off the Lorazepam because it can cause birth defects so I guess I thought I was out of the woods and my doctor prescribed it. My daughter is fine, no birth defects, but does suffer from some depression and anxiety, she is 23. I hope to God it isn't from me taking a Benzo back then. I didn't have any problems stopping the Lorazepam at that time, I wish I had so I hadn't waisted so many more years.

 

I was prescribed Benzo's for a panic disorder and then put on long term because it helped my neck tightness and spasms which would lead to horrific headaches and migraines. This was following a car accident in 1990. I wouldn't even take meds for 3 years until my pain became unbearable and I gave in to Opioids and Benzo's and many A/D's. I did alright for a short time looking back but suffered from terrible depression and anxiety. When my daughter was in 2nd grade I moved to the place I live now (around 2005). I had gone off the A/D's I was taking right before I moved and felt a lightness, less fogginess and lost a lot of weight so I thought I was doing Ok.

 

Things slowly got worse for me as time went on, I suffered from tolerance for years and had no idea. I was now on a high dose of Oxycontin and taking Clonazepam (Klonopin) 1.5mg total, broken into 2X day. I stayed on that same dose my whole time until about 5 years ago. My depression deepened as well as my anxiety. I sought out Psychiatrist's as well as talk therapy for years and was put on many more trials of A/D's as well as Antipsychotic's. I went on disability when my daughter was about 1 1/2 years old and the only reason was so that I could rest and try to heal from my physical wounds. This was about 10 years after my accident. Looking back all those years, I could never understand why I couldn't function and get off disability and I thought I was just depressed from that. I had just graduated from college 6 months before my accident so I had a lot to look forward to but could never get there. I thought that just created a vicious cycle. I had problems with memory and couldn't get things done. I still haven't unpacked a lot of things since I moved here 17 years ago. There are unpacked boxes in my daughter's and my bedroom and she hasn't lived here for 5 years. I now wonder if that inability to do things, to get things done was from the Benzo. Everything was blamed on the Opioid and I never heard 1 doctor say anything about the Benzo being a problem. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

Any problems were blamed on the Oxy use. After my original doctor passed away my new doctor wanted me off the Oxy so my horrible journey began about 9 years ago. This is a cautionary tale for anyone taking these medications that you never know what is going to happen to you. You are beholden to a prescription and a clinic and a doctor and that can change at any moment, I am not alone in this. I don't want to panic anyone I just want you to be aware. I started going further down hill when that started and it just kept getting worse. The depression and anxiety and not functioning. I had problems making dinner, doing laundry, going places everything was a struggle, as if weights in my brain were holding me down. I now think that me tapering my Oxy caused problems with my Clonazepam. Not sure that is a thing but timing fits.

 

It wasn't until I saw John in the Xanax film on Netflix did I put together that I had, I guess worse tolerance, from going off a bit of my Clonazepam roughly 5 years ago. John had gone off a half a tablet when his problems began. That was a light bulb moment for me. I was on a hold and I had so many problems while tapering off the Oxy that my doctor was getting angry with me and told me I had to go off one or the other, so I said I'd go off my Clonazepam. I went off around a 1/3 of a tablet and had a horrible time with that so I stopped and said I would continue the Oxy taper. SX's sky rocketed and I had no clue what happened to me. I now had severe depression with intrusive thoughts all the time. Severe anxiety, agoraphobia, gut problems, increased urination and saliva and insomnia. I thought this was all from the Oxy taper but was so mentally messed up my brain couldn't process thoughts normally, I couldn't figure my way out of a paper bag. I got down to 15mg 3xday when my doctor took away 1 dose I lost it. I had no energy, severe depression still but now was completely suicidal. I went back to my doctor and she added back in another dose of the Oxy at 10mg, to were I am still today.

 

February 2022 my Psychiatrist decided to leave her clinic she was going to take me off the Clonazepam she had been prescribing within 2 months. I was told this in a phone from a nurse not my Psychiatrist, 4 days after my last script refill. I knew at that point that going off this drug was going to be extremely difficult and I argued with this nurse. I then received a call from my doctor's nurse that she would do a slower taper. It started mid February 2022 and .5mg was taken away every 2 months. I was grateful for that. I had a lot of extra pills since my Psychiatrist kept writing my script for 1mg tabs rather than .5mg. I never went up. I am aware that some people have a forced C/T and I am so sorry that happened to you, I can't imagine how horrific that must have been. I'm still angry at my Psychiatrist and doctor for their treatment of me and will be for a long time. Doctors and the mental health professionals really need to learn about this for many reasons but also for their own safety. My intrusive thoughts included them. That has passed but anger still lingers.

 

 

I was told by my therapist to do TMS summer of 2021 because there was nothing else for me. She advised against EMDR because I was doing so bad mentally and that would bring up even more trauma and she didn't think I could handle it. So I did TMS and was better for about 2 months, not great or even good, just better. I even started walking again and I hadn't done that since my small Clonazepam taper. It was short lived and then I was worse. Terrible anger and rage were added in the mix and more suicidal ideation . It seemed like my doctor, Psychiatrist and therapist were all pretty fed up with me and they all treated me horribly. I was adopted, and by that time, I had thought that my birth parents were probably just mentally f**ked up people and I inherited that trait. So last February, when I started my big taper of Clonazepam I was so f**ked up already I was pretty use to feeling horrible. On top of my taper, I did a 2nd round of TMS. I knew in my gut it was utterly stupid to go through TMS while in a Benzo taper but was talked into it and I was desperate. Having an electromagnetic pulse into my brain for 37 minutes for 30 days was not smart at that time. I postponed it early in my taper and did it at the end. I even tried to hurry my taper at the end when it is the hardest to get off just so I could do the TMS. I couldn't get off the Clonazepam as I intended and finished both around the same time. I went into acute before I jumped and I think it was due to the TMS. 

 

I believe that if I hadn't had tolerance for as long as I did and suffered for so long that I would have been able to comprehend what I was reading here and elsewhere and gone off slower. I feel really stupid for that but am now trying to be kinder to myself. Being someone who has suffered for so many years I am grateful beyond words to know that Tolerance was the reason. To know that I am not some crazy person has helped me tremendously. I have lost friendships and relationships along the way and a lot of it was my doing. I was always canceling events because I wasn't feeling good. I got tired of myself for complaining about my pain and other SX's and I ended a lot of the relationships myself because I didn't want to put anyone else through this. I'm so sad about loosing a lot of my life. I'm still wrapping my mind around all that has happened and why.

 

When I look at my taper it was 6 months and it seems like it should have been long enough but I suffered horribly through the whole thing. It's been almost a year since then and I am finally getting a little more sleep. I only had 2-3 hours of broken sleep a night until recently. That's almost a year and that's crazy. I really do wonder how I am still here because there were some really dark times, too many. I believe I still have a long journey of recovery ahead. I look at it like this, there is only one way out once you know this deep dark pit of despair and it is up. I can't go down any further. 

 

Sorry for the very long story. I was just relieved when I saw Jelly Baby's post that "tapering while in tolerance is extremely painful". Going through this just makes you question your own sanity and I really want to know more about that. I believe it is true but I only know my experience. This was like John's story, a light bulb went off. Thanks for putting that statement in your post. Jelly Baby can you or anyone else elaborate on Why Tapering While in Tolerance is Extremely Painful and regarding the being stuck thing??? Thank you.

 

To all suffering, I feel your pain. I know this is a difficult road but please hang in there. I have to believe the stories that we all heal, that some day our suffering will end and we will come out a stronger wiser person. Knowledge is power, keep learning! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[je...]]

I am deeply sorry for all the pain and hurt you've been through rockgrl. Your story is heartbreaking. I really believe getting off benzo's will give you a brighter future to look forward to.

 

I should just clarify what I've said because I'm still in withdrawal and sometimes I write without clearly distinguishing between the terminology but it's still very much in line with the concept of tolerance. There is tolerance and tolerance withdrawal. Tolerance means the drug is not delivering the same therapeutic effect anymore at the dose it was prescribed. You need more of the drug to treat the condition. Then there's tolerance withdrawal and it means you start experiencing withdrawal symptoms while on the drug because you're in tolerance. Tapering while in tolerance withdrawal is the really tough part. The reason you're struggling so badly is because tapering is supposed to give you some level of control over your symptoms. We keep referring to doing a symptoms based taper - stabilizing and letting your symptoms dictate your taper. This helps you to remain kind of functional. But if you're in tolerance withdrawal prior to tapering, you barely have control over your symptoms. When you then taper with existing symptoms, tapering can be very challenging for people.

 

Some people who go into tolerance withdrawal become worse and worse over time and they end up not being able to taper at all due to the extreme severity of their symptoms. All they're trying to do is keep their current symptoms from intensifying and they're just stuck. They can't updose or taper as it makes their symptoms acute. There was one person here who wrote her story about this as a warning to others. It stuck with me and will be with me forever. Her suffering is immense.  :'( Once you've read a story like that, you'll never want to stay on benzo's.