What is happening in your brain?

[[pa...]]

Parker,

i was going to start a new topic about this and i still may. maybe tomorrow.

firstly, it's so fantastic what Bliss says to do and to just Observe the symptoms and allow them to pass through.

most of the time i am able to do that, but sometimes it's very difficult.

i feel like this whole withdrawal is a very energetic process and when i am able to just Observe the Symptoms, they do pass through and i feel a healing and a kinda more in touch with my body and a grounding too.

 

but this morning was so bad!! my brain felt like it was filling up with a fluid of sorts. and this pressure just kept getting stronger and stronger and there was so much excruciating pain when my brain would fill up and land in a certain place, then my right shoulder and both heel of my feet would squeeze tighter and tighter and felt like they were crushing!

that's when i had a difficult time doing that Observing. and got into alot of fear!

 

anyway, i have to ask again--do you think that is all part of this withdrawal? or do now have to be checked for a fluid inside my brain even though i had a full on MRI last June/2012?

 

also, we just became aware that a family member as TB and that we all have to take antibiotics. and i dead set against antibiotics and i fear what they might do to me during a benzo w/d. of course i will take them if i must, but i was wondering if anyone knew about alternative and holistic measures to take for Tuberulosis?

and if i start a new topic about that, where would i start that topic? i would title it benzo withdrawal and TB. but not sure where?

anyway, thank you!

pretty

 

 

Hey Pretty,

 

I know the "full head" feeling you are talking about. I have it, too. MOST of us do.  I don't know exactly what it is, but to me, it feels like excess glutamate is being released because of lack of GABA (this is how I envision it, but is by no means factual)- and that feeling leads to a feeling like your brain is blocked and clogged and full of "stuff". For ME - at this point in recovery, if I force myself to cry by watching youtube videos that are sentimental - that feeling will greatly diminish. However, that wasn't possible until I got to this point in recovery. That started happening for me at around 11 months, but I had it BAD - so it may be possible to help you sooner.  The crying literally helps the adrenal hormones and excess excitatory "junk" to get out of my brain.  It's SO drastic for me that I can cry and immediately, I can smell, hear things normally, etc.  There is something about crying that releases the brain chemicals so that the nervous system can balance.  It's very powerful.  If it doesn't help NOW - remember that it may help later in recovery when you have healed more.  It always helped me to cry - but it was a much more drastic improvement the further I got into my healing - to the point that I schedule "crying" into most of my mornings just to restore brain function to my cortex - (smell, hearing, vision gets better - it's wild).

 

Secondly - on the Tuberculosis.  Hands down - if it were me - as much as you're scared of the antibiotics - I'd DEFINITELY take them if you think you are at ANY risk.  Antibiotics may not be ideal, but getting TB is LESS idea.  Then you have TB on top of having to take medication at that point anyhow.  It's not somethign to mess around with.  DO talk to your doctor about your risk and make a decision together. But beyond that - DON'T get TB if you can help it.

 

I haven't had to take antibiotics during recovery, but I have had a cold several times, and while it did rev me some, it didn't set me back in healing.  I wouldn't "over scare" yourself.  Even if you take antibiotics, you are still going to recovery from benzos.  Many buddies have . It may or may not even affect your symptoms. If it DOES, it is just a change in SYMPTOMS - not a change in HEALING.  Does that make sense? 

Healing still occurs.

 

:)Parker

[[zo...]]

I like Bliss Johns classic book - she talks about attempting to "observe" the symptoms from the outside - realizing they are what they are - simply symptoms - and then allowing them to "be and allowing them to pass.

 

Parker, I think that such an "allowing them to pass" approach is really for people who are not very ill but if you can't remember what you have just seen seconds ago and can't hold a thought or remember anything then it's not so helpful.  I worry about those too ill to post because it's they who have the greatest need.

 

Bliss wrote a good book but I wish it contained more practical advice. The main message I took from her book was a faith in "you will recover" and her strong emphasis on counselling and reassurance.  It's better than nothing but it left me wanting more info.

 

-Zoner

[[pa...]]

I like Bliss Johns classic book - she talks about attempting to "observe" the symptoms from the outside - realizing they are what they are - simply symptoms - and then allowing them to "be and allowing them to pass.

 

Parker, think that such an "allowing them to pass" approach is really for people who are not very ill but if you can't remember what you have just seen seconds ago and can't hold a thought or remember anything then it's not so helpful.  I worry about those too ill to post because it's they who have the greatest need.

 

Bliss wrote a good book but I wish it contained more practical advice. The main message I took from her book was a faith in "you will recover" and her strong emphasis on counselling and reassurance.  It's better than nothing but it left me wanting more info.

 

-Zoner

 

Hi Zoner,

 

I know how tough it is in the very beginning. I was literally in another world. I had the same problem you are describing - completely unable to calm down, rage, can't follow anything anyone is saying to me - it was just awful.  I couldn't calm down. Words were jumping all over the page. And that's just the start of it.  I spent months in bed just frozen in total body fear - without the ability to change it. It was a full-on brain injury.

For several months, I would often write down a 1-2 sentence statement to calm myself and then just lay in bed while the wave was storming over me - and I woud repeat this statement as a sorta weird mantra to get me through the worst of that wave.  It was an awful time.  But the mantra usually helped just to give my mind a way to focus on something - almost like a meditative focus that my MIND could attach to - even as my BRAIN was experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations.

Believe it or not - I'm not Catholic - but I youtubed a 30-minute  "nun" video where all I watched for 30 minutes was the same nun saying the holy rosary and the hail mary's.  Just the repetition of it was somehow calming for me.  It kept my mind processing "that" instead of focusing on the random racing thoughts that were storming over me at the time.  It got me through it.

 

There is genuine withdrawal-related FEAR that occurs during the early waves - and then there is the subsequent mental fear we all create as we are examining these symptoms and freaking out that this is happening to us.

The PHYSIOLOGICAL body fear in the nervous system is just what it is. I had no control over that symptom. My body froze and I had to let it pass over me until it was "done" for the day.

But the true MENTAL fear, I was able to redirect through repeating phrases, watching nuns on youtube, and just redirecting my focus to a calming, soothing mantra and saying it over and over - or reading it over and over.  These were the very worst days for me. And rather than thing about all my symptoms - I tried as hard as I could to "accept" them and redirect around them.  Mind you, I felt hopeless in some ways, but the goal was just to get through THAT MOMENT on THAT DAY.  This was a new practice for me, as I'm a visioner and a planner - so I WANTED to worry myself to death. But that woudl have driven me crazy. So instead, I just laid there and repeated phrases or watched nuns.   As crazy as that is - I usually would fall asleep in a wave while doing this! And then the worst would pass for that day - only to repeat it again the next day all over again.

 

Here is the video I watched over and over and over!

I had seen these nuns on TV while channel surfing, and for whatever reason, it calmed me - and so I decided to youtube it and watch it while laying in bed for hours and hours.

 

At some point, the fear stopped happening. I don't have it anymore. It began to change from month 4 to month 12.  By around a year off, I no longer truly have any fear. Just anxiety and weird things that are still withdrawal-related. I still have MENTAL fear from time to time when I freak out thinking this might last forever. But that is normal fear. I no longer have the physiological fear - or if so - it's fleeting and manifests more like a feeling of overwhelm than fear. 

 

I hear what you're saying, Zoner. What kind of practical advice do you think would be helpful in a book? What would you have liked to have seen addressed more?

 

:)Parker

[[Ho...]]

Yes Parker - that sounds like me during my first year....I was paralyzed with fear and could not move and that is where saying affirmations over and over for hours would help a bit.  And I could actually feel my brain change a little....someone once told me that part of the w/d is like catatonia -where you actually cannot move...I felt that way many many days and for hours on end. 

      And some days I still feel that same kind of fear but am able to FORCE myself to move...and I still have that mental fear of never getting well....when that fear goes, when that doubt goes, when I KNOW that I am getting well - wow - then I will have ME back again.

Hoping2BFree

[[Go...]]

Hi Parker

 

Thanks for your thoughts about muscle and stomach pain.  I did get the Doctor's best Magnesium.  I have been a bit afraid to take it because of my stomach.  I have been getting acid stomach every afternoon.  It is different from stomach pain. 

 

The acid stomach seems to come up along with head pressure every afternoon.  Do you have any thoughts about what mechanism causes the acid stomach?  Any ideas about how to deal with it?

 

Thanks so much,

 

Golden

[[pr...]]

thank you Parker,

 

whether it is or is is not the glutamate that is casuing this fluid like flying saucer inside my brain--i'll take that and especially since that is what occurs in a benzo withdrawal.

i keep having to tell myself, 'Okay, the only thing you did different as far as your brain is a rapid taper of of benzo's and soma after trying to taper from it for 9 years'.

or else i get all into the whole idea that the doctor and the detox i was in put something inside my brain with all the meds they give in the detox--

that somehow one of them was a chip of some sort--and a conspiracy against me and that he is still controllomg it. :'(now that's a bad dp/dr.

and if i think about it too much i get back into it so i will take the glutamate idea.

besides glutamate helps to have some pretty awesome out of body experieces. i've had quite a few, not lately because CNS is so frazzeled, i went up and it felt like it was being electricuted by thousands of different metal objects so i came back down into body boring

 

there is a nurse who is coming tomorrow morning to draw my blood and give my little niece and skin TB test.

i think it may turn out that it's the kind of TB (since there are different kinds) that is not transferable thank God. won't know for sure--but anything to get out of antibiotics and just plain ole Vitamin C, colostrum and anything else you can think of, oh maybe some silver, a colloidal type perhps that sprays directly into lungs. what else are good antioxidants to help immunity prevent infection? they say that sunlight and vot D are essential for TB.

i like the alternative and holistic route but yes, if i really have to i will take the antibiotics.

trouble is with TB one should take them for 6-12 months and i can't do that/ i will die!

thanks,

pretty

[[to...]]

Parker

 

Do you know what part of the brain is involved when you have cramps in your legs and stomach pain?  Are these symptoms a result of something going on in the brain or elsewhere?

 

I am trying to put these symptoms in perspective.

 

Thanks

Hey Parker, I assume you read the book my bliss, Benzo wise book I commented on her video a couple of time, and she told me that even in the second year she had some symptoms that were quite intense, I wonder if you know how long did it take her to recover from this? thanks Parker

Golden

 

Hey Golden,

 

That's a tough one for anyone to pinpoint, but I want to mention that the ENTIRE nervous system is affected in our recovery - both the Central Nervous Sysem (brain) and the Peripheral Nervous System (nerves stemming out from the spinal cord to the other organs, muscles, etc.) 

People in recovery have anythign and everything from both motor movements (shaking, twitching, vibrating, cramping) to sensory experiences (feelings of hold, cold, wet, pain, electric shocks, internal vibrations).  Not everyone has everything, but anywhere we have nerves (which is everywhere)  is fair game.

The entire body runs on nerves and GABA is involved in inhibition throughout.  So almost anything can occur in recovery.

The good news is that I believe that we only percieve so much of it - some of it is healing that we DON"T percieve.  What we DO notice can be unnerving (pardon the pun) But it can't truly hurt us.

 

I like Bliss Johns classic book - she talks about attempting to "observe" the symptoms from the outside - realizing they are what they are - simply symptoms - and then allowing them to "be and allowing them to pass.

 

I'm sorry about your pain. Pain is tough no matter when you have it. 

As far as the leg cramps - have you tried Magnesium Glycinate?  Anytime I read "cramps" in skeletal muscles, I always think of magnesium. It can do wonders for physical cramping in any muscle or organ.  I've posted a lot about this in the forum, but suffice it to say, I use a brand called "Doctor's Best 100% High Absorption Magnesium" - and it is the bomb!  Others have since posted their support of this product as well.  You may already use magnesium (I did) but THIS brand and this TYPE of magnesium makes all the difference.  It is greater than 90% absorbed which far surpasses other forms of magnesium. When I take this, I can feel it in 40 minutes.  Right away. It's an amazing mineral.  The "glycinate" is what the magnesium is bound to. Glycinate is an inhibitory amino acid much like GABA. It's so small that it absorbs right into the blood, pulling the magnesium with it - which is how it all gets in to your system so quickly. But the glycine itself is also calming for muscles - so the entire supplement is wonderful for several of us on here. It may be worth a try.

I'm including a link in case you're interested.  It may not be a cure all, but I take it twice a day (2 pills in the morning and 2 pills at night  makes for 100% of the daily dose) and it's wonderful for me. 

 

[nobbc]http://www.drbvitamins.com/products/products.html?id=126[/nobbc]

 

I hope you feel better. 

:)Parker

 

Edit: commercial link deactivated

[[pa...]]

Hi Parker

 

Thanks for your thoughts about muscle and stomach pain.  I did get the Doctor's best Magnesium.  I have been a bit afraid to take it because of my stomach.  I have been getting acid stomach every afternoon.  It is different from stomach pain. 

 

The acid stomach seems to come up along with head pressure every afternoon.  Do you have any thoughts about what mechanism causes the acid stomach?  Any ideas about how to deal with it?

 

Thanks so much,

 

Golden

 

Hi Golden,

 

I'm sorry. I don't know. I would not be surprised at the many changes that happen to us in this. Our nervous system governs all of our bodily reactions - central and peripheral nervous system, autonomica, parasympathetic, sympathetic. These are all different terms to describe the network of nerves all throughout their body and how they respond to every single internal and external stimuli our organism encounters. You may read on here where someone is just sitting on the couch in withdrawal and all of a sudden their heart starts racing for 10 minutes. The same mechanism that makes that happen makes a lot of "strange" things happen in recovery. It's not so strange if we accept that our nervous system is like a network that is rebuilding and testing out parts of the structure like a power-grid electrician tests out different sectors during repair. 

Just the other day, I got racing heart and shallow breathing sitting here watching tv.  It left 5 minutes later. It was not in response to stimulus - just happened.

 

Normally - we can expect a racing heart or stomach acid if we are supremely mentally nervous about something.  But we don't expect it in recovery when it just seems to happen at random, with no stimulus that we are aware of.

 

It helps me to think of this as just a time that the body is working to reset itself.  A racing heart for a few minutes isn't fun - but it's whatever my body needs today to continue to heal itself.

 

If you are worried - you can go to the doctor to be checked out. That's always safe for concerns, because nobody on the Internet can tell you the cause of any symptoms. But in general, if you have been checked and what you are experiencing is just recovery of the nervous system, then try to rest easy that it's just a temporary symptom that will fade away - and is necessary for the nerves to reset and come to equilibrium.

 

There is no way for most of us to know exactly what is going on, but nerves are the body's electrical system. They control everything. So many symptoms may come and go throughout healing. They will all pass.

 

:)Parker

[[pa...]]

thank you Parker,

 

whether it is or is is not the glutamate that is casuing this fluid like flying saucer inside my brain--i'll take that and especially since that is what occurs in a benzo withdrawal.

i keep having to tell myself, 'Okay, the only thing you did different as far as your brain is a rapid taper of of benzo's and soma after trying to taper from it for 9 years'.

or else i get all into the whole idea that the doctor and the detox i was in put something inside my brain with all the meds they give in the detox--

that somehow one of them was a chip of some sort--and a conspiracy against me and that he is still controllomg it. :'(now that's a bad dp/dr.

and if i think about it too much i get back into it so i will take the glutamate idea.

besides glutamate helps to have some pretty awesome out of body experieces. i've had quite a few, not lately because CNS is so frazzeled, i went up and it felt like it was being electricuted by thousands of different metal objects so i came back down into body boring

 

there is a nurse who is coming tomorrow morning to draw my blood and give my little niece and skin TB test.

i think it may turn out that it's the kind of TB (since there are different kinds) that is not transferable thank God. won't know for sure--but anything to get out of antibiotics and just plain ole Vitamin C, colostrum and anything else you can think of, oh maybe some silver, a colloidal type perhps that sprays directly into lungs. what else are good antioxidants to help immunity prevent infection? they say that sunlight and vot D are essential for TB.

i like the alternative and holistic route but yes, if i really have to i will take the antibiotics.

trouble is with TB one should take them for 6-12 months and i can't do that/ i will die!

thanks,

pretty

 

Hi Pretty,

 

I'm not a doctor. Tuberculosis is a big deal.  If it were me, I would not try self-medicating with silver, etc.  I would weigh the situation intelligently and work with my doctor.

 

:)Parker

[[zo...]]

Hi Zoner,

 

I know how tough it is in the very beginning. I was literally in another world. I had the same problem you are describing - completely unable to calm down, rage, can't follow anything anyone is saying to me - it was just awful.  I couldn't calm down. Words were jumping all over the page. And that's just the start of it.  I spent months in bed just frozen in total body fear - without the ability to change it. It was a full-on brain injury.

 

For several months, I would often write down a 1-2 sentence statement to calm myself and then just lay in bed while the wave was storming over me - and I woud repeat this statement as a sorta weird mantra to get me through the worst of that wave.  It was an awful time.  But the mantra usually helped just to give my mind a way to focus on something - almost like a meditative focus that my MIND could attach to - even as my BRAIN was experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations.

Believe it or not - I'm not Catholic - but I youtubed a 30-minute  "nun" video where all I watched for 30 minutes was the same nun saying the holy rosary and the hail mary's.  Just the repetition of it was somehow calming for me.  It kept my mind processing "that" instead of focusing on the random racing thoughts that were storming over me at the time.  It got me through it. ...... 

 

Hi Parker.  I easily recognise the symptoms you describe.  I got to a stage where I could no longer write and couldn't use a mirror to shave because it was too complicated for me to work out how the reflected image matched where my razor and face were.  Trying to bathe was a nightmare every time.

 

I like your nuns YouTube video!  I did something similar too but not with a video.  That nuns clip has far too much video movement for me to cope with when I was very ill.  In fact I found moving images on the TV would make me fall over as I sat watching as my balance was very badly affected and anyway I couldn't remember what had been said only seconds earlier.  If I could manage it I would listen to very, very calm music like old Gregorian church chants.  It kind of steered my attention from going off in a zillion random directions at once.

 

Unfortunately when I was ill like that, the neurologists scanned my head and did various other tests which showed some unusual patterns and this led to a diagnosis of Alzheimer's dementia even though I am far younger than the typical dementia sufferer.  After that diagnosis, no one tried to treat my symptoms and I would take my benzos which kept sustaining my illness.  That went on for OVER TWO YEARS and I was continuously ill during all that time!  I had to move house to be with other members of my family and they arranged for about 20 hours paid support each week but to be honest I often felt far too ill to cope with anyone's presence.

 

Although I had lots of symptoms no one much bothered about me because they thought it was all down to the dementia.  Eventually I got assessed by a national specialist in dementia who withdrew the diagnosis.

 

Despite a career in computing, I couldn't use a PC mouse and I typed garbage as I couldn't hit the right keys.  I could barely read what was on a PC screen and certainly couldn't register on this web site.  Even then I couldn't organise my thoughts sufficiently to write even the simplest sentence.  For over two years!

 

It's people in that sort of chronically bad state which is bordering on clinical delirium who I was referring to when I said they were the ones I was most concerned about.  Bliss Johns's suggestions to keep calm and fill your mind with nice thoughts has little meaning when you are truly unable to understand even the simplest thing in your surroundings.  Her ideas are for those who worked out what was going on and had gained enough function to know what they were doing.

 

-Zoner

[[to...]]

Hi Parker

 

Thanks for your thoughts about muscle and stomach pain.  I did get the Doctor's best Magnesium.  I have been a bit afraid to take it because of my stomach.  I have been getting acid stomach every afternoon.  It is different from stomach pain. 

 

The acid stomach seems to come up along with head pressure every afternoon.  Do you have any thoughts about what mechanism causes the acid stomach?  Any ideas about how to deal with it?

 

Thanks so much,

 

Hey Golden, the GERD or acid reflux is very normal, I read that when the body is under stress it becomes more acidic, plus food can make it worse, and that is my personel experience, I am off for 2 years CT, and still get acidic stomach during the day but it got better now, it's related to food sensetivities for me, some foods trigger it more, try to eat bland diet to keep the acidity at bay, but eventually it will get better with time, it's probably cause of the hyperecxitation of the autonomic nerves system that control the motility of the gut secretions, according to Ashton Manual, try to eat more foods with potassuim to lower the acidity. it will leave, part or recovery

 

Golden

[[Bo...]]

Dear Parker,

 

That was fantastic!  Thank you for taking the time and energy to get this out to everyone..  I have only been here for a few weeks and everyone has been extreemely supportive.. Your post has helped me in many ways..  BB

[[Go...]]

Parker

 

Thanks so much for your input.  It really helps to frame symptoms as healing and to understand where they might be coming from.  Vestibular upset is really helpful.

 

Thanks again

 

Golden

[[pr...]]

thank you Parker, we are working with Nurses who come here everyday taking our blood. we think we may be in the clear from taking antibiotics right now as my father's test did show that he is not contagious. we got a grant because in Ventura i guess there is a high case of TB so they help famililes who have been affected. i can't believe it's just a nightmare, but i really trying to hold my own, stay still had just recover.

i will still take immune enhancing supplements like a lot of Vitamin C until further notice.

 

i woke up thinking about you because of this long dream i had and then kept dreaming about it when i went back asleep and was wondering what parts of the brain were healing?

okay, i dreamt the whole time that i was taking valium and soma with my mother. we were taking so many pills and she was flying in the sky and i was navigating her.

i woke up from the first one feeling like my brain had just finished a lot of healings and that is when i thought about you.

do you think my brain was healing? also, i had a tiny window yesterday only to be followed with extreme exhaustion all day & night.

thanks, pretty

[[No...]]

Interesting university study regarding the effect of omega 3 in the brain. 

 

[nobbc]http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/27/study-brain-suffers-when-fish-oil-falls-short/[/nobbc]

 

 

Edit: Deactivated commercial link

[[pa...]]

Interesting university study regarding the effect of omega 3 in the brain. 

 

[nobbc]http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/27/study-brain-suffers-when-fish-oil-falls-short/[/nobbc]

 

Noolie,

 

Thank you for including this.  I cannot BELIEVE I am 37 years old and just now "discovering' fish oil for myself. I had no idea.

 

I've been on the high-potency fish oil for almost 3 weeks. The effects in recovery have been - literally - miraculous.

 

I sat in bed last night and cried for joy. My derealization has almost lifted since I started this stuff.  I can SEE and FEEL and SMELL reality so close.  It's a hair thin - and i can literally feel all that brain "crap" that has been crowding up there - it' falling AWAY.  I would have paid any amount of money to learn about this earlier on.

 

I took 1280mg fish oil a day since August. That's when the d/r started to thin. ButI didn't put two and two together then.

 

2 weeks ago, I started researching the "amount" of fish oil i might need, after seeing an article on how high-dose fish oil had helped 2 patients out of a coma in 2 weeks. I used to work, for a short time, with coma patients - so I know firsthand that this is amazing -even if the research is so far anecdotal.

 

So I bought a higher-potency fish oil for myself and started taking a teaspoon of it that day. This provided 2000mg of EPA and 1000mg of DHA - and a total omega count of 3500mg.  In a week, I could tell a change. Here at 3 weeks, my d/r is almost gone.  Mind you - it had been getting thinner. But this is pushing me over the edge of healing and expediting it

 

3 weeks later, I am REALLY starting to notice.  I think it's allowing my brain to better heal itself.  I really believe this. I was hesitant to share about this because I ALSO know that it takes TIME to recover from benzos.  For many of us, it doens't happen overnight.  And so I don't want to sell false hope.

But it's now been 3 weeks and I feel this is a consistency I cannot ignore.

 

I can't know how this would affect anyone else. I am NOT an expert in benzo recovery.

I am just like everyone here- recovering from it.

 

But if I could buy one thing and take it - this would be the product. 

I now have my entire family, including my daughter with special needs - taking it.  She has neurological challenges and she can now sit and do her ENTIRE homework fro 30 minutes independently.  As a therapist who has worked with her since she was born, this is unbelievable to me. 

 

I really need to write all this up in a very educational way ,but I am stubbornly waiting for my d/r to completely disappear and then I will be duly convinced of the effectiveness of this.

 

Please - let me be very clear.  I am just a buddy in recovery like anyone else. But I see NO downside to this fish oil. NONE.  And it is helping me and my entire family. 

 

Incidentally - my friend who is a vegan was experiencing panic attacks for a decade. She's been on Zoloft ,Paxil - and now they gave her xanax and Prozax to begin to take.  I told her --NO! Try this fish oil and magnesium first. She believes in holistic stuff, so I was able to convince her to buy it, even though fish oil is not vegan.

She started it about 7 days ago. This is the text she just sent me yesterday. I am typing it word for word:

"Feeling great on my oil and magnesium!!!Totally haven't had any panic issues at all since last Sunday! I would absolutely recommend this to others!!!:

 

I give this oil to my two kids - my 3 year old even. 

 

I have recommended this oil to a buddy who recovered from Xanax over 3 years ago - and even though she is mostly healed, she has been experiencing issues that she cannot figure out if they are menopause or still lingering benzo stuff.  Well - within the first week, she texted me to say this:

"Okay -I know it's probably not possible this soon, but it's like this fish oil gives me this clarity- like I can see things correctly. Like there was a film on my eyes and everything is crystal clear."

 

Every person should make his or her own decision for themselves.  So many things are different in withdrawal. Fish oil cannot make up for the time it's going to take to heal, regardless. But it very well may help the brain heal itself.  That's coming from research - not from me.

What you're getting from me is an anecdotal story of a fellow buddy for whom this fish oil is really helping.

 

I would be remiss if I did not share this.

That's all I can share for now.

 

If you want to know what I'm taking, it's $67 for about a 2-month supply or about $37 for a one-month supply.  Not cheap, but it's pure and beyond pharmaceutical grade - and that's important with fish oil because fish are polluted, whether they are farm-raised or wild-caught.

 

Here is what I'm taking if anyone is interested. I will spend a longer time doing a more-detailed write-up down the road.

I CANNOT know if this will heal you - or how it will affect you at all.

The magnesium and the fish oil are what is helping me.  That is all I can say if I am 100% honest.

All I can do is share about it.  Just like ANYTHING, each person can't know how it will affect them until their body tries it.  That's just life.

 

1) Doctor's Best 100% High-Absorption Magnesium - 2 pills in the morning and 2 pills at night (this makes 400mg of magnesium glycinate - 100% of your RDA) This helps my mood, akathisia, and physical anxiety symptoms.  I feel good when I take this. I have been taking it since August.

2) Nordic Naturals brand Ultimate Omega Xtra Liquid -This must be the XTRA - not just the plain.  Be sure! This product supplies 3500mg of omega 3's per teaspoon. Of this 3500 mg, 2000mg of it is EPA and 1000mg is DHA. This is an important amount!  And I take 1/2 teaspoon in the morning and 1/2 teaspoon at night.  It took about 3 weeks to start really noticing, but I noticed subtle things within a week.  I have been taking this a little over 3 weeks.

 

My derealization is ALMOST... ALMOST  gone. I don't want to jinx myself! LOL.  I hope it leaves so I can report back here that it totally went.

Right now, I BARELY have it, but I have this slight amount.  I can't wait, guys!!! 

 

:)Parker

 

Edit: Deactivated commercial link

[[No...]]

Hi Parker

 

I am the typical non believer, when talking supplements. Nothing yet has helped my withdrawal, and I do not have high hopes of that changing. I have never had any placebo effect, simply because I generally believe that time is the only cure.

 

This said, I will be starting omega 3 as you suggested. I even bought the same product as you did, so I do not have to do my own research on dosage. I will receive the product in a week or so, and I will update my findings in this thread in a months time.

 

I do not have any real knowledge when it comes to supplements, so I am not trying to argue here. I guess I am trying to say, if it works on me, then I think that many will benefit. We will see.

 

Parker, thanks for your research in to these matters!!

 

Cheers

Kasper

[[pa...]]

Kasper,

 

Good. I am glad you will be reporting your results, because I can only offer my results for my body, 13 months post-jump. And that is limited evidence.

 

The one thing I'd change... Is for you to go ahead and have high-hopes. Believe in the power of your brain to heal itself and that you are giving it the building blocks to do so.

 

How much did you pay for yours and where did you get it?

I'm curious as I have a buddy friend who is looking for the best price and he doesn't have the same store I do where he lives. I buy mine off the shelf. Can you please send me the link of your purchase site?

Thanks,

:)Parker

[[Ho...]]

Parker...Do you have any theories on why the omega 3's rev up some peoples symptoms? Pre benzos (which was only a 3 week period for me) I took omega 3's daily with no side effects.

 

I have tried on and off since then and they just triple my side effects. It usually takes 3-3.5 hours and then I really start to notice it. The same thing happens if I eat salmon, halibut or shrimps. I've tried low doses where the EPA/DHA were only 50 mg. each and same thing.

 

The funny thing is that I get a window 1.5-2 days later that lasts about 12 hours and then it's gone. This has happened every single time I've tried, and is completely reproducible.

 

I thought that at now, just over a year out it might change, so I ate some salmon on Sunday and had horrible side effects about 3 hours later but had a really nice window on Tuesday. Also I almost never get windows unless I do this.

[[No...]]

Hi Parker

 

I do have hope that I will heal. I have seen to many i dire straights, who eventually pulled out of hell, so why wouldnt I

 

In regards to supplements, no one yet seems to have found anything that has a general effect on people in withdrawal. I do believe that placebo is a big mental help in withdrawal, because people/we are used to relying on a crutch (benzo) for relief. If by chance, a person turns a corner while trying a new supplement, then he/she is thrilled to have found something that helps, even though recovery would have happened with or without the supplement.

 

Again, I am the dumb one here who has no real faith in the use of supplements in benzo withdrawal, but that might all change in a month or so if I my body tells me something different, 

 

I live in Denmark, so I just sought an online store that offered world wide delivery, without taking much notice of the price. I will be shopping for the best price if the darn thing works a bit

 

I have copied the bill from Luckyvitamin.com.

 

Product ITEM STYLE# SIZE COLOR QUANTITY PRICE TOTAL

Nordic Naturals - Ultimate Omega Xtra Lemon 3500 mg. - 8 oz. 115481 1 $ 67.96 $ 67.96

Subtotal in US Dollars: $ 67.96

 

[[pa...]]

Parker...Do you have any theories on why the omega 3's rev up some peoples symptoms? Pre benzos (which was only a 3 week period for me) I took omega 3's daily with no side effects.

 

I have tried on and off since then and they just triple my side effects. It usually takes 3-3.5 hours and then I really start to notice it. The same thing happens if I eat salmon, halibut or shrimps. I've tried low doses where the EPA/DHA were only 50 mg. each and same thing.

 

The funny thing is that I get a window 1.5-2 days later that lasts about 12 hours and then it's gone. This has happened every single time I've tried, and is completely reproducible.

 

I thought that at now, just over a year out it might change, so I ate some salmon on Sunday and had horrible side effects about 3 hours later but had a really nice window on Tuesday. Also I almost never get windows unless I do this.

 

Hockey,

 

I really have no idea.   Heck- I had no idea they would help me like they are either.

I've read and read about omegas in the past.

My first experience with a high-potency omega is one I gave to my own daughter. She was 3 years old. I have my training in speech therapy.  She had something very close to developmental apraxia of speech. She never babbled, never made many noises, and I worked and worked with her.

I started researching neurological things that were safe and I came across both message boards with adults with apraxia, as well as an independent study done with Nordic Naturals brand omegas and children with apraxia (the company didn't pay for it - but this is the brand the study used). The adults with apraxia swore it made their apraxia "cured" as long as they stayed on the omegas. The study with the kids had great results, but only in doses that were high enough to deliver clinically significant results.

It was worth a try since it was safe. I bought the omegas for my daughter.

3 weeks later, we were playing on the ground in the kitchen - and even though she NEVER babbled as a baby  - she just opened her mouth and said "elephant" as clear as day.  My husband almost dropped the milk. 

I could never prove it was the fish oil, but we kept giving it to her. She's now in elementary school - reading, writing, does math. It was unbelievable almost ,but not uncommon actually. Since that time, many studies have been done with fish oil and kids with neurodevelopmental disabilities - and the results are there.

 

I never thought much about any effect that omegas in fish oil could have on me in recovery. I took them, but they didn't seem to help.

It was only after I increased the dose to a level that "for me" is clinically significant, that i noticed a huge change.

 

I know that Kasper talks about a placebo effect - and I am very aware of this. As a practicing therapist, I had to take an entire class on this - with regards to therapy "claims" and the differnet products and snake oil out there that people try to sell for stuttering, apraxia, etc.  So I am very scrutinizing and objective in my observations regarding supplements. That's how I can admit that to this day, I cannot prove that fish oil is what helped my daughter talk.  I wasn't willing to "withdraw" it to see if she would have backslided, as I know it was good for her neurologically - so I can never truly know if that is what helped her - only that it is correlated.

 

Likewise, with me, I cannot truly know if fish oil is helping me. But I CAN tell you that I notice a difference in my d/r and d/p symptoms within an hour of a dose. It took about 3 weeks for it to build up enough for this to occur, but once it started, that effect has so far been consistent. Still -it hasn't been "that long" - so the conclusions I can draw are only cursory.

 

I can't  say why the fish oil you take is causing that in you.  I believe you, though.  I dont' know what brand you're taking, what purity it is, what amount - and even if I did know that, I cannot be sure why it is happening. However, if it were me, that is what I woudl check.

 

On the other hand - maybe you are "allergic" to fish in recovery. I say that because you mention that "any" seafood seems to set you off.  So it may not be fish oil itself that is causing your issues - but really - just fish.

There ARE people that are allergic to fish.  Maybe prior to benzos, you had a "non clinical fish allergy" that was so subtle neurologically that you never noticed but it could be amplified now - much like a cold virus can amplify our symptoms - or others are revved by sugar or chocolate, etc.

 

I cannot know. I can only dream up theories.  But that is what I have been doing for a good year for myself, too. 

We will never truly know.

But we will heal.

 

:)Parker

[[pa...]]

Hi Parker

 

I do have hope that I will heal. I have seen to many i dire straights, who eventually pulled out of hell, so why wouldnt I

 

In regards to supplements, no one yet seems to have found anything that has a general effect on people in withdrawal. I do believe that placebo is a big mental help in withdrawal, because people/we are used to relying on a crutch (benzo) for relief. If by chance, a person turns a corner while trying a new supplement, then he/she is thrilled to have found something that helps, even though recovery would have happened with or without the supplement.

 

Again, I am the dumb one here who has no real faith in the use of supplements in benzo withdrawal, but that might all change in a month or so if I my body tells me something different, 

 

I live in Denmark, so I just sought an online store that offered world wide delivery, without taking much notice of the price. I will be shopping for the best price if the darn thing works a bit

 

I have copied the bill from Luckyvitamin.com.

 

Product ITEM STYLE# SIZE COLOR QUANTITY PRICE TOTAL

Nordic Naturals - Ultimate Omega Xtra Lemon 3500 mg. - 8 oz. 115481 1 $ 67.96 $ 67.96

Subtotal in US Dollars: $ 67.96

 

 

Hi Kasper,

 

Thanks for listing this.  That's the same price I'm finding too.  It's what I pay, too. They DO sell a 4oz bottle for $38, but it's more economical to buy the 8oz. So if it does help you, at least you got the big one.

 

I hear you on the placebo effect.  But I've tried a few things in recovery.  I'm trained to be objective and scrutinizing, and I have kept data every single day of recovery. I literally have a huge calendar on my wall with notes, I rated my d/r each day, I circled windows and waves, et. etc. I HAVE had a hard times - sometimes - of trying to figure out what causes what, but in these many months, I can tell you that I have learned from my body what is happening at differnet times in healing.

 

I have learned that my own hormones at ovulation and premenstrually set off certain symptoms like clockwork.

Ovulation - it's hot face and major anxiety. PMS at this point is a wave with more severe d/r/dp and existential depression. (Nice.)

I kept detailed records while I was on Remeorn and different doses of Remeron as to what I was experiencing.

For example, in February, it took 11mg of Remeron for me to feel "overly happy" - which is when I started tapering it.

But by June, I was down to 3mg of Remeron -and as I continued to heal from benzos, I was then overly happy on only 3mg of Remeron.(My theory here is that as i healed from benzos, I needed less and less Remeron to feel good - as my body was getting better and better and my brain was making it's OWN serotonin).

 

And on and on...

 

Fish oil is relatively new for me. I DO know it's not a placebo, because I tried less fish oil earlier and it did nothing for me. 

What I HONESTLY do NOT know is whether or not I'd be experiencing this WITHOUT the fish oil. But I am unwilling to withdraw it to find out.

 

Did you read a post on another thread?  This is the article that got me thinking about reading into a higher dose of fish oil. I take nowhere near this amount in this article.  I simply take the 1 teaspoon daily dose in the product I use - but it's high potency. 

The people in this article took 20grams a day, where I am only taking 3.5grams a day - but after some research, the studies on depression were between 2-4 grams of fish oil - so I stepped up what I had been taking - and within only days, it was a big change.

 

You know I worked for a time with brain injury patients - so I've helped treat people in a coma - (with daily stimulation to their senses). When I read this article is when I began to really rethink the fish oil.

Perhaps you will find it interesting.

[nobbc]http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/19/health/fish-oil-brain-injuries/index.html[/nobbc]

 

This is the excerpt from the article that really explains what I think is happening with me...

 

The brick wall analogy

 

That's the theory behind using omega-3 fatty acids to heal brain injury. The human brain, which itself is a fatty mass, is about 30% composed of omega-3 fatty acids, according to Lewis.

 

In his words, high doses of omega-3 fatty acids, since they mirror what is already in the brain, could facilitate the brain's own natural healing process.

 

"It really gets down to what I would call my brick wall analogy," Lewis said. "If you have a brick wall and it gets damaged, wouldn't you want to use bricks to repair the wall? And omega-3 fatty acids are literally the bricks of the cell wall in the brain."

 

Most of the studies about omega-3 for traumatic brain injury are in animals, but they indicate potential for healing the human brain.

 

After a trauma, the brain tends to swell, and the connections between some nerve cells can become damaged, while other cells simply die.

 

National Institutes of Health research suggests that omega-3 fatty acids may inhibit cell death and could be instrumental for reconnecting damaged neurons.

 

Another recent study revealed genes that are activated to contain massive damage -- especially inflammation -- when the brain is injured. What activates those genes: omega-3.

 

"We have strong data that suggest omega-3 will activate good proteins to cope with brain damage and turn off proteins that cause neuroinflammation," said Dr. Nicolas Bazan, director of the Neuroscience Center of Excellence at LSU Health in New Orleans and author of the study.

 

And besides that, according to Bailes and Lewis, fish oil may be the only solution for brain damage that continues after a traumatic brain injury patient has been stabilized

 

"There is no known solution; there's no known drug; there's nothing that we have really to offer these sorts of patients," said Bailes, who along with Lewis received money from companies that make fish oil after their treatment of Ghassemi and McCloy.

 

The damage to McCloy's brain was profound, according to Bailes. Not only did it experience massive cell death, the protective sheath around McCloy's nerve cells had been stripped during the hours of exposure to toxic gases. That sheath, called myelin, allows brain cells to communicate with one another.

 

Bailes consulted with a fish oil expert and eventually decided that administering 20 grams a day of omega-3 fish oil through a feeding tube might repair the myelin sheath. (For comparison: A typical supplemental dose for someone with an uninjured brain is about 2 grams a day.)

 

"We decided to throw the kitchen sink at him," Bailes said. "If we were going to fail, we were going to fail with all guns blazing, so we gave him a very high, unprecedented dose to make sure we saturated and got high levels in the brain."

 

Less than three weeks after the mine disaster, McCloy was emerging from his coma. Three months after that, he was walking and speaking.

 

"His brain was still recovering, but with (omega-3), it recovered much faster and in a shorter amount of time," Peter Ghassemi said. "His brain was damaged, and this was food for the brain."

 

"These two clinical cases where we have a wildly unexpected recovery, was it just luck that they woke up?" asked Dr. Joseph Hibbeln, an omega-3 expert and chief of the Section on Nutritional Neurosciences at the National Institutes of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. "Or is there some reasonable scientific explanation for it?

 

"Given that there aren't any other treatments, this is a good bet," Hibbeln said. "It's really only reasonable to go forward with doing the full press of careful intervention studies."

 

The implications of a successful study are huge: 1.7 million people suffer a traumatic brain injury each year in the United States.

 

And research into how omega-3 might function for stroke, Parkinson's disease and early Alzheimer's disease is ongoing.

 

"The message that I'm trying to get across is, there's more you can do," Lewis said. "If you add omega-3s, we can then begin to let the brain heal itself a little more efficiently."

 

"Up until the time the pharmaceutical industry gives us a drug that cures all brain injury, this is the best hope we have," Bailes said.

 

:)Parker

 

 

Edit: Deactivated commercial link

[[Ho...]]

"I cannot know. I can only dream up theories.  But that is what I have been doing for a good year for myself, too. 

We will never truly know."

 

Myself too Parker. I'm sure though that it's the omega 3's because I have tried the most highly purified EPA/DHA in both low and high doses and I get the same results. Whether I take that or eat high omega 3 fish it's always the same, a bad wave starts a few hours after I take it, the next day can be not too bad and the day after is a window. I actually will eat a can of salmon (wild sockeye) 2 days before I have something important to do just so I can deal with that day easier.

 

I think it's important to note too that I get almost the same result when I take magnesium in any form, even glycinate, calcium, vitamin C or any B vitamin.

 

I took many of these things without issue up until I took the eleven ativan over a 3 week period last October. Since then I cannot seem to tolerate them. I have been trying to understand the mechanism ever since but with no success.

[[Ho...]]

Parker - I sent you a message but your inbox is full so I will just repeat it here.  I googled Nordic Naturals and looked for Ultimate Omega Xtra but the one I found is 800 mg EPA, 400 mg DHA and 200 other Omega 3's.  You said you were taking 2000 mg EPA and 1000 mg DHA - am I looking for the wrong formula? 

Thanks parker

Hoping2BFree

[[pa...]]

Parker - I sent you a message but your inbox is full so I will just repeat it here.  I googled Nordic Naturals and looked for Ultimate Omega Xtra but the one I found is 800 mg EPA, 400 mg DHA and 200 other Omega 3's.  You said you were taking 2000 mg EPA and 1000 mg DHA - am I looking for the wrong formula? 

Thanks parker

Hoping2BFree

 

Hi Hoping,

 

You googled it okay But it's the LIQUID that I use "Ultimate Omega Xtra Liquid".

 

Here are 2 different places you can at least see the product.

 

Here's the 4oz bottle:

[nobbc]http://www.amazon.com/Nordic-Naturals-Ultimate-Omega-4oz/dp/B005SV2ZJU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1353103866&sr=8-3&keywords=ultimate+omega+xtra+liquid[/nobbc]

 

Here's the 8oz bottle:

[nobbc]http://www.amazon.com/Nordic-Naturals-Ultimate-Omega-Xtra/dp/B005URVQFG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353103866&sr=8-1&keywords=ultimate+omega+xtra+liquid[/nobbc]

 

And here is the Nordic Naturals Internet site's actual information about the product. From here you can see the back label.

[nobbc]http://www.nordicnaturals.com/en/Products/Product_Details/514/?ProdID=1628[/nobbc]

 

I use the liquid, because for the money, it's the most economical for my budget.

To get the amount of omega 3's in capsule form would cost me more.  I have even looked at other reputable brands and it woudl cost me way more to buy this potency of omegas (I would have to take 6 or 8 a day of the capsules, whereas I can buy the liquid and keep it in the frig and take 1/2 teaspoon twice a day (which makes a 1tsp full day's dose) - and it's much cheaper.) It's less convenient, because you have to be home to take it. You can't take liquid on the road with you, but that is not an issue for me. 

 

I want to add that this "xtra" product is a new one for Nordic Naturals. So there aren't a ton of reviews on it yet, but there are more reviews for the regular "non xtra" product.  The only differnet is that the xtra has more omegas. Just FYI if you're wondering.

 

I encourage anyone thinking about fish oil to explore the Nordic Naturals website, as well as other brands. I really love and respect this brand and for many reasons.  They delve deeply into the science of why they make their fish oil the way they do - and I love that.  From the processing to the purity to the sustainable fishing practices, I respect this brand and am thankful for it.

 

 

I hope you guys all don't think I'm trying to get you to buy fish oil. 

I'm not.

I'm just sharing that this "thing" I'm doing really seems to make sense to me - based on the evidence out there.

I have "temporary" brain injury - and this stuff is helping me at this point at 13 months out.

But let me mention - while I am definitely noticing results -I"m NOT HEALED YET! The results were fast, but I've also got 13 months of healing behind me. But many of you know from my "one year off" post, how BAD I was, too. And some of you are not as bad as I was - so we are not all the same - and you may get even more out of fish oil than I am!  (I hope so!)

But the good Lord knows I'm just a human like anyone else.

So I would LOVE to see other buddies benefit, but I'm cautious to look like I'm pushing a product on the forum. 

 

Honestly, I just love people and this is the fight of my life - and if it's helping me, I'm going to share about it. 

But I'm not a guru or an expert.  I just feel GOOD about the fact that this is something I feel is really helping my brain heal - and that it's not a drug - and that it's GOOD for me.  And that it's good for everybody anyhow - for many health benefits. It feels win-win and miraculous -and like the article says above - there isn't anything ELSE that seems to hasten the healing. 

Still - no matter what - if you use fish oil or not, healing is going to take TIME.

That might be obvious, but it's worth saying. 

 

Parker

 

 

Edit: Deactivated commercial link