What is happening in your brain?

[[No...]]

 

Good on you for doing the reading and sharing.

I have read the same study you posted.

It's "frustrating" when science doesn't wholeheartedly agree. But it's common and I'm used to it.

For instance, I guess from studies, 50% of people can drop benzos and be fine in 2 weeks. Why am I still at it 14 months later? The studies arebt "wrong" but why are 50% of the people able to leave benzos behind and the other half of us are on the forum? Some factors have not yet been isolated apparently! Such is the nature of the scientific study.

 

Very good example!!

 

Factors are SO important. Imagine if a study was to be performed, researching the percentage of people suffering withdrawal from benzos, and the control group would be members of benzo buddies

 

Often when I claim in here that 50% are able to wean with only minor discomfort, people wants to know where I found the data. It is hard to believe facts, when our window to the benzo world looks so different.

 

I am still worried about the money aspect in all this, as it is hard to be sure weather a researcher is affiliated or not. 

[[pr...]]

Parker,

there's no TmI about morning arousal, i sure miss that one. and yes, about people not being able to say thier truth on this forum almost had me when i posted my concerns about something sexual and didn't get any responses. i am still glad i did that and i will continue to be honest, even on an internet forum. that's just how i am. but i did feel a little akward talking too much about all that i am reading about the PUFA's and somewhat shocked as i've been downing cod liver oil, flax oil, fish oils for many years thinking it was helpimg me. and i still don't know which way i will go. i am sure i will read many more hours about it.

i want to know as much as i can even about nut and seed butters and being an Esthetician, it is really disheartening to let go of all those precious oils like Sesame, Evening Primose, oil, almond and avacado oil if what Peat and Shenker are saying is true, that they are all toxic PUFA's. there's got to be a certain amount that would be beneficial otherwise we have been brain washed.

and America's Gone Fishy--not to mention all those beautiful cloudy streams that are coming from Planes above.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/war/airplane.gif

and i keep looking for article where they speak of the alternative to Omega's that to my knowledge all along was what the brain and body needed. that they are essential! but those 2 mad scientists say they are all toxic and the only oils that are very healthy are coconut oil and olive oil.

i am also having trouble about the fact that progesterone works on the Gaba receptor's and maybe putting me into waves when otherwise.

do you happen to know anything about the progesterone theory and benzo withdrawal?

i too have been experiencing some really bad headaches and nausea, light sensitivity. was it you that said when we look at the sun it's helps to raise our serotonin?

well, i haven't had much light or sun in these past 7 months. i better get out there.

i just wish that it all wasn't one big guessing game, trial and error all the time about this & that-- fish oils, is it progesterone?

i wish i had more of an intuitive sense about everything like the way i feel after eating wheat. i simply can't eat it, no guessing game there. can't have red sauce on spagetti either. but i'm not sure about the progesterone because sometimes i think i feel more relaxed when i am using it and i've heard that it can do that.

 

you seem to be way more in touch with what works for you and what doesn't. like you know about the b vitamins, the remeron. i have yet to try any b vitamins out of fear because of everyone on here. but i may have a b vitamin that is totally toxic free and may work great. i'll have to try it and see. i am upset about the possibility of progesterone putting me into a wave and causing headaches. and i am really upset about possibly not taking anymore PUFA's.

pretty

[[Th...]]

I was just on the verge of ordering the fish oil you have Parker - literally, I have it in my cart at checkout (iherb, if you haven't already checked, always seems to me to have the cheapest prices when you add in the discounts they give for total $ ordered).  Now I'm as confused as anything about the 'negative' info that's coming up too.  Sigh. 

 

I expect the studies that come up negative, that doesn't overly bother me because it seems the next one out will almost always contradict the last one.  But quite a few of you seem to hold Ray Peat (hadn't heard of him before) in high esteem and I didn't like the sound of what he had to say about fish oils on a quick scan. 

 

And progesterone...I don't think I even want to know right now if it's another thing that's not supposed to be good for you. 

 

prettydaisys, I am completely with you on this: 'i just wish that it all wasn't one big guessing game, trial and error all the time about this & that...'

[[ih...]]

Just my opinion, but as a trained scientist, Ray Peart does not fappear to follow any consistent scientific method but cherry picks random findings from studies & makes large extrapolations.

 

That aside, traditionally high ommega 3 consuming peoples, such as Eskimos have low rates of CVD. There are numerous studies that show that sugar increases advanced glycation end products which are highly oxidising.

 

Again just my opinion but I prefer to trust findings that arise from established scientific method & in this regard there will continue to be inconsistent findings because that is the essence of science.

[[wo...]]

Ihope,

I'm ignorant when it comes to conditions that are abbreviated.  What is CVD?

Woe

[[ih...]]

Cardivascular disease, (sorry it takes longer to type).  End point .CVD is subject to so many life style variables its very difficult to normalise for all of them in a study which is one of the reasons you get a range of outcomes from these studies. You really need to read the fine print before drawing conclusions & there are always if, but & maybes.

 

Unfortunately, media reporting of science is generally very poor, with certain exceptions, (Nyt & ,PBS tend to be better), but many media will just go for a headline claiming "fish oil is useless" or "fish oil cures cancer", when science is never as clear & definitive as that. Except maybe some laws of physics, whereby if you drive headon into a fixed object at speed, the outcome can be determined with a high level of confidence.

 

One good example of a limited but widely appled study, (particularly in the media is the WHI study on HRT which scared many women about HRT, although there were some major limitations in the study. The sample was skewed to women who were 60 + & well past menopause before treatment was commenced; the hormones they were treated with were synthetic hormones & the form of progesterone was already know to cause significant side effect when used in contraception & many of the sample were significantly overweight & not necessairly indicative of the results in healthy women.

 

This is what worrie me about Peart, he has a fixed theory & he is simply gathering evidence to support that theory & ignoring all the evidence that doesn't agree with him.

[[wo...]]

Thanks so much for your input, Ihope.  You are so in-depth with your answers and that's what I like about you.  Prior to my withdrawal, I took Omega-3 Fish Oil every day.  After reading so much of what it can do to you after your last pill has me leery of resume taking it.  Everyone has their own opinion on what it can and can't do to/for you, making it difficult to decide.  What's a body to do?

 

Woe

[[wo...]]

When I said "after taking your last pill", I meant the valium.

[[pa...]]

I LOVE all this discussion on here!!!

 

My gut feeling on the fish oil guys - is that it helps with brain clarity - and for all the good reasons science has explained about the omega 6 and omega 3 ratios in our modern diet being wildly out of balance.  I really think it's helping me. I've been dreaming so much since I've been taking it.  Every night, I'm having "story" dreams now (not looping-though sequences like before). 

Will it cure withdrawal overnight?  No. I'm sure of that. But will it help the brain heal by giving it part of what it needs?  This is what I DO feel strongly about, based on how I FEEL on it.  If I FEEL better - it's got to be helping something. And being how enough science gives creedence as to the reasoning behind this, I feel it's a worthwhile addition to a CNS undergoing the healing of my life.

 

As far as progesterone, - Pretty - YES - there is research on progesterone and GABA receptors.

In a nutshell, progesterone acts on GABA receptors. (I don't know the nuts and bolts of it, but it's a positive action).

There seems to be, from research, a "weird" progesterone response, whereby some women are helped by it and others feel worse for it.  And I"m talking about a women's OWN progesterone (not external things).

If you google "progesterone and gaba receptors", you'll find a lot of stuff that shows why you may feel better (or worse) during a time of the month when you have more progesterone. It gets complicated because we also have estrogen kicking at that same time, and some months, my estrogen is higher than others -and so I can get a net effect of "calm" or " hyped up" depending on the month and just random fluctuations. If I keep supplementing with fish oil, I"m wondering if that will play any role in things. But it's hard to know, because as time ticks forward, I'm also just healing and I can't tell when might have happpened otherwise. 

 

Anyhow - good stuff on here.

 

 

:)Parker

[[No...]]

Hi Parker

 

I just received confirmation that DHL is on their way with my package

 

In around a week or so I will be taking 3 grams per day, or would it be advisable to start slowly? Unlike most in here I do not react strongly to sugars, MSG.

 

Thanks

[[wo...]]

Parker, you and Ihope both are so diligent in your research.  I will resume taking my fish oil in the mgs you mentioned and will order it.  I'll try anything to help/assist in brain healing.  Will keep you informed as to what's going on.  I have the same question Noolie has, would you advise the 3 grams daily to start with?

Woe

[[pa...]]

Hey Guys,

 

I can't give advice. I can only share what I've done.  I looked into research from Dr. Weil, Dr. Barry Sears, and a few other places.  That's where I came up with taking the amount I take. 

 

In my case, I started taking 1200mg a day in August. I did that for a few months and didn't notice any change in mood, etc.  Then I started reading the stuff I mentioned and that's when I decided to try the higher dose.  So, I went from 1280 a day to a product that gave me 3500 a day (2000 EPA and 1000DHA).  And then I noticed the change.

 

I can't tell anyone how much fish oil to take.  That's against the forum rules, and for good reason. You don't want people on the Internet "playing doctor". Each person SHOULD CHECK with his/her own doctor.  If you are on bloodthinners or other meds, etc. - that can interact. So you want to always be smart. 

 

I would encourage people to do some reading or look on youtube to see these doctors talk about fish oil.  Look around. And begin, if you want to, with a dose you are comfortable with.  Starting slow never hurt anyone. 

 

How one person's body reacts is unique. So with anything - start slow after being smart and talking to your doctor.  And if you tolerate things, you can go from there.

 

Hopefully this sounds logical. 

 

:)Parker

[[No...]]

Imagine seeing to the good old doctor, in order for him to advice me on how much Omega 3 would be advisable (that was not my question, but lets pretend). With no real information on the subject, he would advice me to take according to the package instruction.

 

Let me ask in a different way. How much is indicated in the package instruction (Nordic Naturals) as the maximum daily dosage? 

[[pa...]]

Imagine seeing to the good old doctor, in order for him to advice me on how much Omega 3 would be advisable (that was not my question, but lets pretend). With no real information on the subject, he would advice me to take according to the package instruction.

 

Let me ask in a different way. How much is indicated in the package instruction (Nordic Naturals) as the maximum daily dosage?

 

Good question, Noolie. 

 

The bottle I take of the Ultimate Omega Xtra says that a daily dose is one teaspoon. And that is EXACTLY what I take. I take 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 at night. That supplied 3500mg of Omega 3's in the EPA/DHA ration of 2:1. 

I almost think that they made this supplement specifically to fit this criteria to meet study-related findings.

It's a newer product - it's similar to one of their older ones, but with the "xtra". Anyhow - hope that helps.

Look it up on their website and you can see a photo of the back of the bottle if you're interested.

:)P

[[No...]]

Thanks Parker!!

 

It seems like the 3 gram is a general advised maximum dosage.

 

High Dosages

 

MedlinePlus discourages taking more than 3 g of fish oil daily, unless under the direct care of a medical doctor. This is considered a high dose and a variety of side effects may occur. In some instances, a high dose of omega-3 fatty acids is recommended. The American Heart Association advises patients wanting to lower triglyceride levels to take between 2 and 4 g of fish oil daily. Be cautious when taking a fish oil supplement and also eating fish. Each serving of fatty fish has about 1 g of fish oil. Eating two or more servings of fish daily is not advised.

 

Side Effects

 

Large amounts of omega-3 fatty acids increase your risk of bleeding. Omega-3 fatty acids cause blood platelets to decrease activity. Platelets take longer to form blood clots. You may notice you suffer from nosebleeds, your gums bleed when brushing your teeth or blood is in your urine or stools. Internal bleeding may also be visible on your skin in the form of bruises. Fish oil may also cause gastrointestinal side effects, including abdominal pain, cramps as well as diarrhea and belching. Taking large amounts of the supplement increases these effects.

 

Risks

 

In unusual circumstances, high doses of omega-3 fatty acids cause arteries to burst, leading to bleeding of the brain, advises the University of Maryland Medical Center. The emergency is known as a hemorrhagic stroke and is life-threatening. Signs of a hemorrhagic stroke include confusion, dizziness, loss of consciousness and slurring of speech.

 

 

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/433175-omega-3-daily-intake-limit/#ixzz2CgsUebjC

[[Ho...]]

A lot of literature that I read said that it is the EPA that helps the brain and not the DHA. It would make sense that they would make this preparation with a much higher EPA component.

[[Ke...]]

I don't know if anyone knows this but you can buy enteric-coated fish oil capsules at Costco with 648 mg of EPA/DHA for a good price.

[[Th...]]

Thanks for your contributions Ihope (I'm loving the tone and discussion too Parker) - I feel a bit reassured after hearing another 'take' on the guy.  I went ahead and ordered and my supplies should be here in a couple of days.  Clearer thinking would be FANTASTIC, I cannot believe how my cognitive function and memory are at the moment.  But my dreams are more than vivid enough already so I'm hoping they don't become even more so. 

 

So, another lab rat to report in with updates in the Great Fish Oil Experiment!

[[No...]]

Great Thisbe

 

We will both report back our findings, lets keep it in this thread

 

 

[[Be...]]

Parker,

 

I posted your notes on the FAcebook benzo recoery site and Alto Strada would like to communicate with you.

Here's  her post about it. 

 

"I do not belong to benzobuddies, I run my own support site http://survivingantidepressants.org/ If I sign up on one more support site, I think I will implode. I would like to converse with Parker about issues we both seem to be very interested in. Could you ask her to contact me at survivingads at comcast dot net?"

 

So, if you're inclined,  contact her at  survivingads@comcast.net

 

 

[[Mi...]]

BUMP

[[pr...]]

i really want to know what BUMP means? i see it every so often. do tell.http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/confused/confused-face-smiley-emoticon.gif

[[Th...]]

prettydaisys, I'm fairly certain (from other groups and forums) that it's simply a way of 'bumping' up the post so that it might get a better chance of being seen again.  Hope that solves the mystery!

[[pa...]]

Well,

 

I've stayed at 3grams of fish oil a day.  Thought I would update since a few people have asked me to.

 

I am still dreaming a lot more. I am waking up most days where it looks like d/r is SO thin and I feel refreshed.

 

I am still having physical symptoms one day and anxiety symptoms another day.

 

But - I'm a woman, and the point in my menstrual cycle that is always a problem for me in recovery is about 6 days away. So estrgen is building -and this is my hardest time by far each month.

 

I can say that the mental clarity seems to be far improved, but the fish oil cannot overcome the hormonal impact for me.  I am still definitely experiencing the hormonal impact of estrogen,and there is nothing I can do but to wait until I ovulate - when it peaks and then falls off.  A few days after ovulation is when I begin to get relief. Last month, I started the high dose fish oil after ovulation, so that is the first month I have been on the high dose fish oil during this tough time. The mental clarity and sleep improvement have been consistent, but some of the other symptoms are heighted due to estrogen.

 

Another thing that seems to be improved (and I don't know if it's fish oil or random) is that I am getting "fireface" a lot less -which is where my face feels really hot on the inside and like I need to put a cold cloth on it. That is somewhat improved - but I don't know if it's the fish oil or just random.

 

Is is very difficult to tell if fish oil is changing any of my physical symptoms. I do not think it's changing anything like the burning skin or neuropathic pain type stuff. But it is not making it worse either.

 

The things I mostly notice are the mental clarity, the mood boost, the sleep/dream improvement.

 

OH! Also - I sleep IN now - beyond the cortisol "crap" at 6am.  I am pretty sure that IS related to the fish oil, because I read that omega 3's can reduce the body's production of cortisol in response to stress. And the sleeping in started after I started taking it. So that would make sense. And this has also been very consistent. This is the first time I have been able to roll over after my alarm and crash back out.  That is new. For instance, several times this week, I have woken up at 7:30 or later (the kids are home from school). Normally, I woudl be shaking at 6:15 in the bed, but I haven't been. The jury is still out on how the estrogen peak will affect me.

 

Again - a lot of my improvement is liekly the fish oil - but also because I've poised to improve from it at this point in recovery.

I know wholeheartedly that it woudl NOT have returned me to a state like this at 3 months off. I was so bad. But where I am now in recovery, I believe it's given me a big boost. Again, though - others will be able to potentially benefit sooner -because I did a cold turkey and was hit so incredibly hard.

 

That's my update for now.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

:)Parker

[[mt...]]

Hi BB's,

Its been awhile since I have been on the forum but thought I would check in and see how things are going for many of my old friends.  I kinda stumbled upon this thread and was interested in the PUFA info and the "Great Fish Oil Experiment".  I started out reading Peat last year and after much research I ended up working with Chris Kresser in Berkeley for the past few months.    I am feeling much better and thought you might be interested in reading his informative article on Fish oil.

 

http://chriskresser.com/essentialfattyacids

 

I plan on moving on from this whole experience happier and healthier and ...wiser.  Never hurts to keep on looking and exploring. 

 

Hope everyone gets some sleep tonight and has a wonderful Thanksgiving.

 

Blessings for continued healing to all!

Mimi