What is happening in your brain?

[[Ji...]]

Parker, I am really interested in how you came off of Ambien and what that was like?

 

you say, 'Another 9 months at .375mg of Klonopin and Ambien 10mg.  This time I went to detox - rapid valium taper in 12 days.

Benzo free 10/3/11'

 

Does this mean you vallium tapered from ambien?

 

I am on zopiclone 7.5 for 8 years and I am wondering how to get off. I'm just settling down from diazepam withdrawal so not going to even think about tapering from Zopiclone just yet. But I really think my brain is not coping so well with zopiclone now ever since my C/T from Vallium.

[[Ca...]]

Many thanks, Parker, for dedicating the time to write this and post it.  I have not been able to work either, probably because my CNS is sensitive.

 

Reading this was helpful, and I have forwarded to a friend who works here in Chicago with people recovering from Benzos...he finds the article very helpful too.

 

I also copied some of my family members so that they understand why I don't do many activities in public, etc.  Slowly, I'm adding them in as I feel better and able to cope physiologically.

[[Ca...]]

Hi Parker,

 

Thank you again for sharing the research and the physiology behind benzo withdrawal and recovery.

 

Do you have any suggestions as to whether or not certain supplements may hinder the healing process, such as taking natural relaxants (e.g., lavender oil), GABA, etc.?  Do these signal the body not to heal because there appears on the spot an alternate means or signal?

 

Thank you!

[[ge...]]

Many thanks, Parker, for dedicating the time to write this and post it.  I have not been able to work either, probably because my CNS is sensitive.

 

Reading this was helpful, and I have forwarded to a friend who works here in Chicago with people recovering from Benzos...he finds the article very helpful too.

 

I also copied some of my family members so that they understand why I don't do many activities in public, etc.  Slowly, I'm adding them in as I feel better and able to cope physiologically.

 

 

How does your friend help ppl in benzo withdrawal??

[[Sk...]]

My brain feels fine for now. 

[[Fr...]]

What is happening in your bowels too!!.I saw a herbalist and he told me that all the depression and mind games plays havoc with your gastric,as the same nerves are down there too.

 

I have got intense feet problems,assumed it was arthritis but the burning pain and stabbing on top that drives me nuts when I try and wear shoes.I wear crocs most of the time.I hope to see a specialist soon but will have to switch from private to NHS as my funds went on the gastric tests.The gastric surgeon was quite adamant all the probs were through withdrawal.

 

Now I am stuck on 7.5mg x 3 daily.Afraid to move.I did think to start cutting 2.5 for my last dose at bedtime.

 

I tell you,I have been around a long time and suffered a lot in my lifetime,but this beats the lot.What these pills have done is heartbreaking.I feel angry with the Doctors,really bl.......y angry for all of this.Now I should be having peace at my age I have this to cope with.Be glad all you younger ones that your bodies are stronger to withstand the onslaught.I wish I had done this 20yrs back.

 

I feel so down.

[[Go...]]

Freedom

 

I would like to know what causes all the body pains.  I have had terrible stomach pain and cramping but I also have a lot of pain in my left foot and leg.  I first had pain on the top but now it is in my instep and toes and that makes it really hard to exercise.  I think exercise is important.

 

Does anyone know what causes this pain in the feet and legs.  I have been to 2 doctors for my feet and they sain it could be some mild planters faceitiis.  But it still hurts.

 

Is this caused by the brain?

[[Ye...]]

Great post!  Thanks for the explanation of what's going on in my brain.

[[Re...]]

Freedom

 

I would like to know what causes all the body pains.  I have had terrible stomach pain and cramping but I also have a lot of pain in my left foot and leg.  I first had pain on the top but now it is in my instep and toes and that makes it really hard to exercise.  I think exercise is important.

 

Does anyone know what causes this pain in the feet and legs.  I have been to 2 doctors for my feet and they sain it could be some mild planters faceitiis.  But it still hurts.

 

Is this caused by the brain?

 

Every credible source I've found says that muscle pain is one of the top one or two physical symptoms caused by benzo withdrawal. (The top psychological symptoms seem to be anxiety and depression). I have had the symptoms you describe.

 

I can't speak with authority about the cause of muscle pain, but I do recall reading that muscles have receptors just as the brain does. So, our brains are not the only parts of our body that are affected by withdrawal. The muscle pain is literally not "all in you head."

 

The GI tract Is also loaded with receptors, which accounts for IBS, benzo belly, stomach pain, vomiting, etc.  I recall reading that our bodies are loaded with receptors, so a lot of our symptoms are not coming from our brain. The muscles really DO hurt. It is not just a trick being played by our brains.

[[Sk...]]

I know! I can't stand it when poeple tell me "Its all in your head".  What a crock of mess. 

 

Um,., What is benzo bellly?

[[Re...]]

I know! I can't stand it when poeple tell me "Its all in your head".  What a crock of $*!t. 

 

Um,., What is benzo bellly?

 

You can google it. To me it means bloating, belching, and stomach pain.

[[...]]

Well here in the U.K there was a programme about people that had problems with their brain due to tumours etc. I have not watched it yet. it would be so good for someone to research what actually goes on in some ones brain on say a weekly basis.

 

Just to prove what happens when one is tapering off the benzo and to see what exactly is going on, but like everything else related to tapering off these drugs  there is not enough done about it, it is forums like this that we find the information we need to help us.

 

DD

[[ea...]]

Ok reardon, I have a question for you. I know pain is a symptom. But...this is just one example...a month or so ago I had bad mouth pain where I broke a tooth off. The gum was actually red and swollen and I freaked out, thinking abcess. Well it all disappeared...the pain, the swelling, the redness. Did benzo wd cause the gum to physically swell???

eastcoast, trying to understand

[[Sk...]]

Well here in the U.K there was a programme about people that had problems with their brain due to tumours etc. I have not watched it yet. it would be so good for someone to research what actually goes on in some ones brain on say a weekly basis.

 

Just to prove what happens when one is tapering off the benzo and to see what exactly is going on, but like everything else related to tapering off these drugs  there is not enough done about it, it is forums like this that we find the information we need to help us.

 

DD

I agree, dd

[[Sk...]]

What is happening in your bowels too!!

[[pr...]]

And you may be even more surprised to learn that your second “gut brain” contains neurons and neurotransmitters just like those found in your skull.

 

Plus here’s something that may come as even more of a shock! Just like your primary brain, your “gut brain” is also able to learn, remember, and produce emotion-based feelings.

 

The expression “gut-level feeling” isn’t just a “saying.” We really do have feelings in our gut.

 

Our two brains communicate back and forth via a major nerve trunk extending down from the base of your brain all the way down into your abdomen. Because of this, your two brains directly influence each other.

 

When one brain becomes upset, the other joins right in.

 

That’s why your stomach might get “fluttery” because of anxiety before an important meeting. Or why a late night spicy snack that’s hard on your stomach might also give you some nasty nightmares.

 

** The Mystery of the Second Brain

How do we happen to have two brains?

 

During early fetal development both your “gut” (esophagus, stomach, small intestine and colon) and your primary brain started to develop from the same clump of embryonic tissue.

 

When that piece of tissue divided, one piece grew into your central nervous system (your brain and cranial nerves). The other section became your enteric nervous system (your “gut brain.”)

 

During later stages of fetal development, these two brains then became connected via a massive nerve -- the vagus nerve.

 

The vagus nerve is the longest of all our cranial nerves, and creates a direct connection between your brain and your gut.

 

Because of this direct brain-gut connection, the state of your gut has a profound influence on your psychological well being.

 

** How it Works

Your “gut brain” -- known to scientists as the enteric nervous system (ENS) -- is embedded in the sheaths of tissue lining your esophagus, stomach, small intestine and colon.

 

And, nearly every brain-regulating chemical found in your brain has also been found in your gut brain -- including both hormones and neurotransmitters.

 

In “The Second Brain,” Dr. Michael Gershon, a professor at New York City’s Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center, refers to the entire gastrointestinal system as “the body's second nervous system.”

 

"The brain is not the only place in the body that's full of neurotransmitters,” Dr. Gershon explains. "One hundred million neurotransmitters line the length of the gut -- approximately the same number found in the brain."

 

Actually, the total of nerve cells in your gut is greater than the total nerves connecting the rest your body to your brain. This complex circuitry allows your “gut brain” to act totally independent of the brain in your skull.

 

**Your “Sleep-Gut Brain” Connection

As research on the circuitry between our two brains progresses, neuro-scientists are understanding more and more about how we act and feel.

 

For example: Our brain and gut are so interconnected that both have natural 90-minute “sleep cycles.” In the brain, slow-wave sleep is interrupted by periods of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep during which dreams occur.

[[Th...]]

Pretty just covered in much more depth what I was going to mention - that the gut is actually so important it is referred to as 'the second brain'.  Another reason to keep it as healthy as possible. 

[[be...]]

SUPERB!!!!!

[[Sk...]]

And you may be even more surprised to learn that your second “gut brain” contains neurons and neurotransmitters just like those found in your skull.

 

Plus here’s something that may come as even more of a shock! Just like your primary brain, your “gut brain” is also able to learn, remember, and produce emotion-based feelings.

 

The expression “gut-level feeling” isn’t just a “saying.” We really do have feelings in our gut.

 

Our two brains communicate back and forth via a major nerve trunk extending down from the base of your brain all the way down into your abdomen. Because of this, your two brains directly influence each other.

 

When one brain becomes upset, the other joins right in.

 

That’s why your stomach might get “fluttery” because of anxiety before an important meeting. Or why a late night spicy snack that’s hard on your stomach might also give you some nasty nightmares.

 

** The Mystery of the Second Brain

How do we happen to have two brains?

 

During early fetal development both your “gut” (esophagus, stomach, small intestine and colon) and your primary brain started to develop from the same clump of embryonic tissue.

 

When that piece of tissue divided, one piece grew into your central nervous system (your brain and cranial nerves). The other section became your enteric nervous system (your “gut brain.”)

 

During later stages of fetal development, these two brains then became connected via a massive nerve -- the vagus nerve.

 

The vagus nerve is the longest of all our cranial nerves, and creates a direct connection between your brain and your gut.

 

Because of this direct brain-gut connection, the state of your gut has a profound influence on your psychological well being.

 

** How it Works

Your “gut brain” -- known to scientists as the enteric nervous system (ENS) -- is embedded in the sheaths of tissue lining your esophagus, stomach, small intestine and colon.

 

And, nearly every brain-regulating chemical found in your brain has also been found in your gut brain -- including both hormones and neurotransmitters.

 

In “The Second Brain,” Dr. Michael Gershon, a professor at New York City’s Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center, refers to the entire gastrointestinal system as “the body's second nervous system.”

 

"The brain is not the only place in the body that's full of neurotransmitters,” Dr. Gershon explains. "One hundred million neurotransmitters line the length of the gut -- approximately the same number found in the brain."

 

Actually, the total of nerve cells in your gut is greater than the total nerves connecting the rest your body to your brain. This complex circuitry allows your “gut brain” to act totally independent of the brain in your skull.

 

**Your “Sleep-Gut Brain” Connection

As research on the circuitry between our two brains progresses, neuro-scientists are understanding more and more about how we act and feel.

 

For example: Our brain and gut are so interconnected that both have natural 90-minute “sleep cycles.” In the brain, slow-wave sleep is interrupted by periods of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep during which dreams occur.

OMG!!  That is absolutely amazing!  I will never forget this and will tell my family and friends this.  Thanks Pretty! 

[[pr...]]

i like to call the gut "our first real brain" and i am learning (if i'm not mistaken) that it even resides more Gaba receptor's than the brain. not sure? but i wouldn't be surprised.

[[be...]]

Wow!!  PD thx for sharing that info.........Happy VD!!

 

BB.

[[pa...]]

Pretty - that's a really cool excerpt about the gut brain being connected to the "head" brain

 

I have also read lots of info about this - and this is also what the GAPS diet is based from (Gut And Psychology Syndrome).

The idea is that if you heal the gut you can heal many mental problems. Neat, huh? 

 

I'm still waiting for both brains to heal. 

 

Parker

[[Ma...]]

Hi Parker,

 

I read something yesterday that kind of disturbed me.  It was a quote from Ashton actually.  The topic was, do benzos get stored in your fat.  I think the conclusion was yes they do but it should not affect you.  ? IDK.

 

But what I found disturbing was that a study was done on older people who had died and it was found during autopsy that there were high concentrations of benzos stored in the muscle tissue.  This bother's me for some reason.

[[pa...]]

Hi Parker,

 

I read something yesterday that kind of disturbed me.  It was a quote from Ashton actually.  The topic was, do benzos get stored in your fat.  I think the conclusion was yes they do but it should not affect you.  ? IDK.

 

But what I found disturbing was that a study was done on older people who had died and it was found during autopsy that there were high concentrations of benzos stored in the muscle tissue.  This bother's me for some reason.

 

 

Hi Mairin,

 

I haven't read what you are referencing up above... but does the autopsy information you refer to state that the old people who died had withdrawn from benzos years ago? Or were these old people who had taken benzos up until their death?  It makes sense that if someone had been taking benzos and then died, that the benzos would be detected in any of their tissues.  That doesn't seem to be such a shock if that is the case. Anything you ingested recently would have the potential to show up on autopsy.  

In my reading, because the benzos (namely valium) came on to the scene in the 1960's - MANY people became dependent - to the point where we have a great number of older people (like my grandma) who have been on benzos for 40-50 years!  My grandma is in her late 80' and has been on her one bedtime xanax since before I was born!  And she has all kinds of memory loss and issues, but she probably wouldn't suspect the benzos. At her advanced age, however, there is no point in encouraging her to withdraw - and I imagine that's how many doctors feel - and so we have a large population of elderly on benzos historically. (At least from what I've read and my gut feelings as to why this may be.)

So I guess that would be my viewpoint.... are the autopsies being done on older people who were taking benzos recently before they died? If so, it seems logical they would show up on autopsy. 

I can mention that even though I'm still healing, I've at least had to take a medical drug test for a routine volunteering position, and at least as far as urine, no benzos showed up.  

 

I can understand why you feel the way you do about probably not wanting an ounce of benzos to remain in you at all! Me too. But we also can't control any of that on a molecular level.  To be honest, if my SYMPTOMS would all go away, I woudl feel healed and consider myself fully healed, regardless if there were micoscopic amounts of benzos still present somewhere in my body.    There are always chemicals from our environment that show up in hair samples, etc.  We are a chemical body and there are chemicals in our environment and we are exposed to them all the time, even if we don't notice any effects.  All we can control at this point is our mindset and attitude as best as we can while focusing on healing.  Whether benzos show up in our body somewhere doesn't mean we won't experience full healing.  Plenty of people do! So while this whole dealio can take a long time, we don't have to worry about that or let it bother us.  When we wake up and feel "good" again - we won't care about the rest.

 

Parker

[[Sk...]]

interesting...  I heard in some autopsies, there has been benzos found in the bone tissue many years after stopping the benzos!  That kind of freaks me out. 

 

-SZ-