The Klonopin Klub

[[Pl...]]

Hi Pleasebehere,

 

I did look at your signature but am not sure I understand what is going on right now.  Why did you cross from Ativan to Klonopin?  I see this happening with others and don't understand it.  If Ativan worked for you, would your doctor be willing to Rx Ativan and let you taper gradually and directly off of that?  It does sound like the problems you are having resulted from the fast/CT from Ativan.  You were not on it for that long but obviously you were taken off of it too rapidly.  This doctor sounds sympathetic to your situation.

 

You asked about my holds.  Well, it depended (for me) on what preceded the holds.  Sometimes sxs would ramp up during a hold but they almost never got worse than they had been before.  Now I too was in agony -- horrific ear pain, body tension, etc (you can see my answer to Lizagal for more of my more troubling sxs)..which is why I held and then slowed down my taper.  I also held for non-taper related reasons - travel or family stuff.  During those times, unless I was under a lot of stress, I felt pretty stable.  Last summer, for example, when I held for many months, I felt almost normal...but stress - mostly interactions with difficult (for me) family members who also were not at all sympathetic to my altered (i.e. withdrawal) state - would send me into full panic mode!  I swore that after last summer and the long hold, that I was going to focus on my health and get through this taper.  I've had to beg out of many family events and to curtail travel (we are retired and travel is something we really enjoy doing) in an effort to complete the taper. 

 

Let us know how you decide to proceed.  Try and work with your doctor to come up with a plan.  Wishing you all the best,

 

Mana

 

Hi Mana.... Thank you for your kind response..... the reason I went on the  kolonopin after 10 months of being free is because ativan was impossible for me to taper from.... Ativan has a very short half life I believe compared to kolonopin...some people can do it.... I couldn't.... I believe because I did it in a month and very fast probably had alot to do with it..... Had I known what I was doing maybe I could have done it....

 

 

I thank you so much for sharing your experience... It helps to know what others have or are going thru ....

[[Ry...]]

Hey, guys. Thought I'd come to the Klono-specific area for this one.

 

Can anyone tell me what exactly tolerance withdrawal feels like and what it means in relation to when to make a cut? I'm due for my next cut in a few days.

 

Many years ago, when I first got on the Klono, I had a night of uncontrollable "fever" where I didn't take my temp, but I was sweating, then cold, then sweating, then cold all night. For a few days after that, I had what I thought was a low-grade "fever" (about three days.) My entire life, I thought that it was my body fighting off a virus because I was so uneducated.

 

I've got the low grade fake fever again. I'm 10 days into my first cut (11 nights), due for my next soon. Is this a cut or hold situation? I only started feeling this way yesterday and it comes and goes in spurts.

[[Tr...]]

Hi KK, hope everyone is having calm and healing evening.

 

I had a sort of window.  I ran errands all over town. In heavy traffic.  Even chatted with total strangers while we waited for our stuff.  Made eye contact with ease.  No anxiety at all.  Been out of the house since 9:00 am.  Just got home.  When I ate, palps started.  And, some weird head stuff.  It was fun while it lasted.

 

 

Stay Strong!

TRY

 

[[my...]]

PBH,

I didn't realize that Ativan had such a short half life.  I do know, or have learned, that it is a very difficult benzo to withdraw from - equal to Klonopin in its own way.  So, we should go back to the original dilemma...of what to do re: your taper.  Since, again, it seems you have a sympathetic doctor, why not go over the possibilities with him/her?  Maybe you could try a dry cut taper - either a cut/hold taper or a MT.  Not everyone benefits from a MT, though many do say it is smoother which makes sense.  What about - and I know it is difficult to think about going backwards only to go forward over the same territory - an updose of K?  You need to get to a place where you feel stable so you can then design a taper and proceed with confidence.

 

Have you posted on the Microtaper thread?  SG is incredibly helpful when it comes to helping BB's design tapers.  If you post there and address your post to him, he will give you some good options and ideas within a day or two. 

 

Mana

 

 

[[mi...]]

  Question for anyone who tapered this low, how on earth are you weighing .005 mg?

[[Tr...]]

  Question for anyone who tapered this low, how on earth are you weighing .005 mg?

 

MissB

 

You might want to ask Disney Girl.  She's at that dose and I think she is doing cut/hold.

 

TRY

[[Kl...]]

everyone[/b]19]

  Question for anyone who tapered this low, how on earth are you weighing .005 mg?

 

I'm not actually weighing.  The klonopin is suspended in water in a progressively more diluted suspension.  Then I draw off how ever many mL my taper schedule says to draw.  The current suspension I use is super super dilute.  If you want, I can hare my taper schedule which includes instructions for making the suspension.

 

Thank you so much to everyone for your words of encouragement.  I've decided that Friday night was my last dose and I'm jumping.

[[Kg...]]

MissB:  At the end I used a full pill and put the poppy seed on top of it to add in the .005 mg. With that being said I jumped at where you are since at this point you really aren't taking anything at all and for me it was just delaying the inevitable. I think Bennie jumped at this point as well. 

 

 

[[...]]

:thumbsup:   KLONOPINKARL!!!  :thumbsup:

 

YAY!!!  Let us know how you are doing!!  SO happy for you!!!

 

~Nomo

 

everyone[/b]19]

  Question for anyone who tapered this low, how on earth are you weighing .005 mg?

 

I'm not actually weighing.  The klonopin is suspended in water in a progressively more diluted suspension.  Then I draw off how ever many mL my taper schedule says to draw.  The current suspension I use is super super dilute.  If you want, I can hare my taper schedule which includes instructions for making the suspension.

 

Thank you so much to everyone for your words of encouragement.  I've decided that Friday night was my last dose and I'm jumping.

[[ER...]]

Hello, K Klub.

 

I was advised to come to this thread for hopefully, some advice. As my signature states, I'm a short term user originally for panic, anxiety, and insomnia back in April 2016. I was adamant with my Pdoc about getting off this stuff as soon as possible to avoid further issues. First two cuts have been very challenging.

 

My question may be something very personal and dependent on many factors but I wanted to throw it out there and see if any of you could lend me your experience. First cut, my withdrawal symptoms followed the generic withdrawal curve for long acting Benzos with onset at about 5-7 and then peak symptoms between two and three weeks. After the 22nd day, things sprung back to life strongly and I had 7 beautiful days before my doc and I decided to cut again from 0.25mg to 0.125. Similar situation with onset at day 6, then a gradual ramping of symptoms (anxiety, depression, insomnia). Things felt like they peaked again around two weeks but now, at day 24 since the cut, I've had 2 pretty terrible days back to back and its got me very nervous about moving further. By terrible, I mean that I'm struggling to eat, sleep, accomplish simple tasks, and just feel generally overwhelmed and OBSESSED with my symptoms. I sometimes think if I could stop the obsession, the anxiety would relax and I'd be able to sleep and eat and be relatively comfortable. Anyways...

 

So, three questions;

1. Do people typically have similar wit all withdrawals from cut to cut? Do they get better or worse with moving closer to the cessation?

 

2. Is there a problem with staying at .125mg for a little longer until things feel stable for a bit? We've been cutting every 28 days so far but I feel like I'm in need of a chance to "catch my breath" and take a little time to prepare for the next cut.

 

3. With .125mg a day and only having been on for less than 6 months, does it make sense to move to a less aggressive taper with a water titration that I seem to be reading so much about. Ultimately, I know things are never perfect but given I've felt some these first two cuts have been pretty psychologically taxing, I'm willing to do anything that might lessen the symptoms moving toward jumping off.

 

Thank you all for your care and support. God Bless.

[[Tr...]]

everyone[/b]19]

  Question for anyone who tapered this low, how on earth are you weighing .005 mg?

 

I'm not actually weighing.  The klonopin is suspended in water in a progressively more diluted suspension.  Then I draw off how ever many mL my taper schedule says to draw.  The current suspension I use is super super dilute.  If you want, I can hare my taper schedule which includes instructions for making the suspension.

 

Thank you so much to everyone for your words of encouragement.  I've decided that Friday night was my last dose and I'm jumping.

 

KARL,  CONGRATS!!  Wishing you speedy healing!! :smitten:

 

TRY

[[ca...]]

Karl, speedy healing and wishing you clear sailing ahead ~CD ps: @ ERS slow down as it`s best to go to slow then to fast if your feling bad and yes feeling bad can be an understatement !  ~ EVERYONE else I send you Healing ~Huggs !

[[Tr...]]

Hello, K Klub.

 

I was advised to come to this thread for hopefully, some advice. As my signature states, I'm a short term user originally for panic, anxiety, and insomnia back in April 2016. I was adamant with my Pdoc about getting off this stuff as soon as possible to avoid further issues. First two cuts have been very challenging.

 

My question may be something very personal and dependent on many factors but I wanted to throw it out there and see if any of you could lend me your experience. First cut, my withdrawal symptoms followed the generic withdrawal curve for long acting Benzos with onset at about 5-7 and then peak symptoms between two and three weeks. After the 22nd day, things sprung back to life strongly and I had 7 beautiful days before my doc and I decided to cut again from 0.25mg to 0.125. Similar situation with onset at day 6, then a gradual ramping of symptoms (anxiety, depression, insomnia). Things felt like they peaked again around two weeks but now, at day 24 since the cut, I've had 2 pretty terrible days back to back and its got me very nervous about moving further. By terrible, I mean that I'm struggling to eat, sleep, accomplish simple tasks, and just feel generally overwhelmed and OBSESSED with my symptoms. I sometimes think if I could stop the obsession, the anxiety would relax and I'd be able to sleep and eat and be relatively comfortable. Anyways...

 

So, three questions;

1. Do people typically have similar wit all withdrawals from cut to cut? Do they get better or worse with moving closer to the cessation?

 

2. Is there a problem with staying at .125mg for a little longer until things feel stable for a bit? We've been cutting every 28 days so far but I feel like I'm in need of a chance to "catch my breath" and take a little time to prepare for the next cut.

 

3. With .125mg a day and only having been on for less than 6 months, does it make sense to move to a less aggressive taper with a water titration that I seem to be reading so much about. Ultimately, I know things are never perfect but given I've felt some these first two cuts have been pretty psychologically taxing, I'm willing to do anything that might lessen the symptoms moving toward jumping off.

 

Thank you all for your care and support. God Bless.

 

ERS, Welcome!  You've made some pretty big cuts, which can cause some intense symptoms.  Some do find the lower in dosage the the more challenging it can be, because the percentage of the reduction goes higher.  Your cut from .25 to .125 was a 50% cut.  If you are experiencing sxs it means your healing has not caught up with your rate of taper.  Nothing wrong with needing to hold.  I assume you are dry cutting.  If you are considering going to liquid.  Please keep in mind that you may metabolize the liquid differently than the pill.  Which may require some time to adjust to the liquid form.  You might want to take that into consideration. 

 

TRY

 

 

[[li...]]

I'm just not sure where to ask this ... this thread moves so fast ...

 

Recently I got it in my head to try diazepam again ... Issue was that I had exercised a bit less than a week ago, which can have long lasting effects. My guess was that most should be over, and the K was so hard to bear.

 

In many respects, diazepam just wasn't cutting it. In a way, it didn't touch the few muscle relaxing properties K still has. (actually, it seems that K is more excitatory these days)

Aside from the brief daytime peak, it felt so weak at a bit above 40 mg a day ...

A few years ago I could deal with a lower dose of K if I would not exercise for some time ...

 

For some reason my body likes to pump out stress hormones. As stated in a different thread, long term daily dosing causes all sorts of issues, including HPA axis issues. ( https://books.google.nl/books?id=kNtYHc72Dj8C&pg=PA471&lpg=PA471&dq=benzodiazepine+withdrawal+downstream&source=bl&ots=l-hHmpD0Wb&sig=_u9VboY7T6spN9_zLqiOxcBS32U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg7vzj2rnOAhUFWBQKHcsEBdAQ6AEITzAG#v=onepage&q=benzodiazepine%20withdrawal%20downstream&f=false)

 

Actually, when I took the diazepam I had a feeling that my body was still pumping out glucocorticoids, and diazepam seemed to block it. So that's just wonderful ... it's not 'just' the clonazepam, there are a bunch of health issues that interact.

 

Anyway, the next day I could feel the rigid muscles and the V would hardly touch it ... not for long anyway. Maybe I should try again in a few days, but from a fundamental point of view I shouldn't get myself on an 'addictive' problem drug that has few if any therapeutic benefits ...

 

I have never ever done anything as stupid as tapering one drug with another ... I got a bad feeling about this ... I should just get off the K somehow and recover. A real C/T these days would be a 'drama'. Does anyone know of an uninhabited island where I could let it 'burn itself out' ? A C/T a few years ago would have been 'easy'. (just not sleeping for a couple of months...)

[[mi...]]

MissB:  At the end I used a full pill and put the poppy seed on top of it to add in the .005 mg. With that being said I jumped at where you are since at this point you really aren't taking anything at all and for me it was just delaying the inevitable. I think Bennie jumped at this point as well.

 

Thanks Kgirl, I'm not there yet but I was just curious for the future. I still haven't decided how low I want to taper. If I'm doing my math right .005 mg is .002 grams on the scale if you round up, is that right?

[[Bu...]]

Hi all,

 

short post to say hi and thinking of you all.  Been having good days but, over did things lately and hit a serious wave this morning.  Bad upper right quadrant pain into my back, panic, tremors, etc.  :'(  Haven't had wave like this in a long time-gonna hunker down.  Bought new CBD oil from the same company as before but they don't make the same formula I used anymore, (coconut oil).  New formula is olive oil and I can't handle it...ugh.  Need to find a replacement...

 

Karl:  congratulations on jumping-sounds like the level you were at really wasn't helping you anymore

 

ERS:  slow and steady is best.  I found as I got lower on my taper, I had to be extra careful to make sure the cuts weren't too big.  Did a 20% cut by accident once and had to hold longer to let my body catch up to the cut. 

 

Liberty:  hang in there.  Understand about dealing with both the taper and previous health issues.  My NP suggested a straight taper off K.  I was worried about my reactions to any other drugs.  Stuck with the devil I knew.

 

Hugs to all

[[Be...]]

MissB:  At the end I used a full pill and put the poppy seed on top of it to add in the .005 mg. With that being said I jumped at where you are since at this point you really aren't taking anything at all and for me it was just delaying the inevitable. I think Bennie jumped at this point as well.

 

Thanks Kgirl, I'm not there yet but I was just curious for the future. I still haven't decided how low I want to taper. If I'm doing my math right .005 mg is .002 grams on the scale if you round up, is that right?

 

If the average weight of your pill is approximately .170 grams, then each .001 gram = about .003 mg. IMO, by the time you are in the teens, you're riding on fumes and being slightly off here or there matters little.

 

FWIW I placed my little piece of pill on top of the 10 g weight that came with the scale.

[[Bu...]]

Hey Bennie:  hope you are doing ok today

 

Ryuuku:  I'm not sure about tolerance withdrawal but, I constantly get hot and cold spells too during this taper.  Constantly kick off the covers only to wake up freezing.

[[Be...]]

Liberty,

 

It sounds like every time you try to taper—no matter what drug it is—you have withdrawal symptoms. That's to be expected. If you get the type of symptoms that compromise a serious health condition such as seizures, heart issues, psychosis, whatever, then I think you need to talk to your doctor that oversees this and get their opinion if you should stay on the drug or taper. If you do taper, from all the info you've shared over the past few years, it's not going to be easy or comfortable. This is very unfortunate, but true for all of us here. When every Benzo registers as toxic in the body, then choosing at all to taper is courageous. If we have the option to pick our poison, we can never know for sure if we are making the right choice. I don't know of one person that hasn't sought to control symptoms in a myriad of ways, including adjusting taper rate, as they went along, and by using coping skills.

 

Remember Intend that was posting here a couple of years ago? She tapered so very slowly as to invite criticism from a few on BB. Given her health situation and home situation, this was the best possible scenario for her. She made headway, albeit slowly. For all I know, she is still tapering.; she doesn't come around anymore.

 

So what I'm saying is, why wait any longer? You could start very very slowly.

 

Wishing you the best, always,

Bennie

 

Ryuuku,

If you are tapering without a long hold, then tolerance withdrawal isn't really an issue. It sounds more like straight up withdrawal symptoms. I had all the symptoms you describe—using comforters on a summer afternoon, and throwing the blankets off in winter. Metabolism jumping all over the place.

Bennie

 

[[Be...]]

I'm at 90% today. Low anxiety, hardly any pain, and moving around with lots of ease. Trying not to overdo it. I know this may not last, will probably not last, but I'm trying to enjoy it. Funny how trying to enjoy something still has a tinge of discontent. Like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I suppose that if this becomes a regular thing, that will fade away. My body is having a decent time of it, but I am a bit gloomy. Someday, maybe I'll be in sync. Hoping for Paz.

[[Tr...]]

Hi KK, hope you all are doing well.

 

I went out for a few hours, just don't feel connected.  It's such a discouraging feeling.  I have a slight hissing sound in my right ear.  Kind of pulsates with the beat of my heart.  Have some left side sternum discomfort.  Left side stuff primarily.  Interesting that the hissing is in the right ear only.  Still having wonky brain feeling off, and on.  Just don't know what to make of it.

 

I think Intend posts sometimes on the long hold thread. 

 

Going to listen to some music.

 

All the Best,

TRY

[[Bu...]]

Bennie:  totally understand about waiting for the other shoe to drop - glad you're feeling 90% today    Hope your body and brain get in synch soon and paz comes your way.  Sending hugs 

 

Try:  Here's to hoping our body is fine tuning things more and more as we get lower.  Hang in there-hugs 

 

Will be thinking of everyone tonight at 7pm EST for the prayer/meditation/sending healing thoughts session 

[[li...]]

Bennie,

 

Thanks. But it isn't just 'withdrawal'. I'm more or less dealing with a paradoxical benzo, and if I change the dose even slightly ... Also oversensitivity etc.

 

I know the symptoms of benzo withdrawal. But this isn't 'normal' benzo withdrawal. Not even just more 'severe'. That lorazepam mistake changed everything. I'm not sure what else to say, it's late.

[[Tr...]]

Bennie:  totally understand about waiting for the other shoe to drop - glad you're feeling 90% today    Hope your body and brain get in synch soon and paz comes your way.  Sending hugs 

 

Try:  Here's to hoping our body is fine tuning things more and more as we get lower.  Hang in there-hugs 

 

Will be thinking of everyone tonight at 7pm EST for the prayer/meditation/sending healing thoughts session 

 

Burned, yes, here's hoping!  The lower we get I hope things smooth out.  Hang in there!

 

TRY

[[mi...]]

MissB:  At the end I used a full pill and put the poppy seed on top of it to add in the .005 mg. With that being said I jumped at where you are since at this point you really aren't taking anything at all and for me it was just delaying the inevitable. I think Bennie jumped at this point as well.

 

Thanks Kgirl, I'm not there yet but I was just curious for the future. I still haven't decided how low I want to taper. If I'm doing my math right .005 mg is .002 grams on the scale if you round up, is that right?

 

If the average weight of your pill is approximately .170 grams, then each .001 gram = about .003 mg. IMO, by the time you are in the teens, you're riding on fumes and being slightly off here or there matters little.

 

FWIW I placed my little piece of pill on top of the 10 g weight that came with the scale.

 

Bennie, at the risk of sounding dense, what do you mean in the teens?