Bioidentical progesterone cream causes withdrawal similar to benzo-

[[pr...]]

hi hope56,

 

i'm not sure i understood what you meant by if i was using the usual dose of prometrium 100 mg and now using Peat's 3 mg i would see a difference? do you mean i am taking much less of Peat's progest+E. i wonder if i should use more?

i just wanted to use the minimal amount because of all the fears i had about using prog in a BW.

 

by the way, and i posted this on my liver post. this last week i have been using this wonderful melatonin liquid and Peat's progest+E on my gums and falling asleep right when i hit the pillow. and i slept 8 hours straight last night for the first time in 9 months!

and i went out for the first time today in 9 months! i did a few errands. Oh God!--everything was so loud. and i went to the mall to look for a new warm nighty because that's my wardrobe. and these teenagers must have been stoned and they were laughing right by me where i was looking for nighty's.

and then they kept asking me if i worked there. i seriously felt like i was on a bad acid trip! i couldn't believe my first day out and it seemed like everyone was zig zagging in front of me. little by little.

 

anyway, i would love to be totally versed in this progesterone stuff. i am thinking about going back on the prometrium. and i am still tapering from the vivelle dot estradiol patch. i wish i knew all the answers.

pretty

[[ih...]]

It's pretty confusing for everyone, PD. Ideally we want to find our individual correct dose to balance our estrogen to progesterone ratio as the problems occur when either hormone is too dominant.

 

Hope56, i may have had my own experience with prog withdrawal, last night. I wanted to see if reducing prog will help improve the extreme bloating so missed last night's dose completely. Was awake all night though thankfully, no other wdwl sx. Staying off the prog again tonight so will be interested to see if it has been acting as a substitute sleep med.

 

If it seems that I have been ODing, I guess I will have to taper down to a lower dose & see if that improves things.

[[ho...]]

hi hope56,

 

i'm not sure i understood what you meant by if i was using the usual dose of prometrium 100 mg and now using Peat's 3 mg i would see a difference? do you mean i am taking much less of Peat's progest+E. i wonder if i should use more?

i just wanted to use the minimal amount because of all the fears i had about using prog in a BW.

 

by the way, and i posted this on my liver post. this last week i have been using this wonderful melatonin liquid and Peat's progest+E on my gums and falling asleep right when i hit the pillow. and i slept 8 hours straight last night for the first time in 9 months!

and i went out for the first time today in 9 months! i did a few errands. Oh God!--everything was so loud. and i went to the mall to look for a new warm nighty because that's my wardrobe. and these teenagers must have been stoned and they were laughing right by me where i was looking for nighty's.

and then they kept asking me if i worked there. i seriously felt like i was on a bad acid trip! i couldn't believe my first day out and it seemed like everyone was zig zagging in front of me. little by little.

 

anyway, i would love to be totally versed in this progesterone stuff. i am thinking about going back on the prometrium. and i am still tapering from the vivelle dot estradiol patch. i wish i knew all the answers.

pretty

 

Sorry PD -- It was confusing the way I wrote that.  I meant that a drop from 100 to 3 mg of progesterone is a huge cut.  I think you basically CTed your progesterone. 

 

If as Perserverance has researched the progesterone is cross tolerant to benzo then it is similar to benzo in the way it acts on our GABA receptors -- downregulating them....    SO  if you dropped so drastically it may cause you some sx.  OR not -- some folks don't seem as bothered as others.... this is all so individual.

 

I can't tell you what to do except to consider the dosage change and perhaps take things very slowly during wd?!

 

 

You are brave to get out to the mall by yourself!  Congratulations, that is a big step.  What you experienced is so very common on the boards.  I also have the visual and auditory sensitivity.  It's crazy awful isn't it!??  Some days are worse than others.  Some days I can only watch TV with the sound muted!

[[ho...]]

It's pretty confusing for everyone, PD. Ideally we want to find our individual correct dose to balance our estrogen to progesterone ratio as the problems occur when either hormone is too dominant.

 

Hope56, i may have had my own experience with prog withdrawal, last night. I wanted to see if reducing prog will help improve the extreme bloating so missed last night's dose completely. Was awake all night though thankfully, no other wdwl sx. Staying off the prog again tonight so will be interested to see if it has been acting as a substitute sleep med.

 

If it seems that I have been ODing, I guess I will have to taper down to a lower dose & see if that improves things.

 

Wow!  What dosage are you on? 

Please keep us posted. 

Good luck.

[[ih...]]

60mg is the dose which clinical trials found necessary to sufficiently balance estrogen, so approximately this, but I may have erred on the side of more to compensate for loss of cream due to lots of sweating in the middle of our very hot summer.

 

Didn't want to face another sleepless night so took a standard dose this afternoon & wow, within an hour, it felt like I had taken a benzo, very calm & a little drowsy so I think I have my answer. Will go for the blood test tomorrow & if the results bear out my suspicions of progesterone overload, it's a prog taper for me. What a doozy as this stuff makes me feel good, (except for the bloat).

[[pr...]]

yes, please keep us posted i hope!

 

hope56, yes, i guess that is a huge cut and i probably did a little c/t from the prog. i really don't know what to do anymore, or right now? i hope a window will open for me about what to do?

 

yes, those auditory hallucinations makes one feel as if on a kinda bad acid trip. although i hear music all arranged and in symphonies that i really wish i could just jot down as i am a musician. that part is pretty cool.

 

i too have the TV on the lowest. oh and 'they' don't understand how the clanking of the dishes is a far worse noise than the sound of the train going by.

i live kinda close to a fwy where the cars never bothered me at all. now, when my brain does it's certain 'thing' sometimes each car takes my brain with it as they travel sown the highway. that is the worst because there's nothing i can do. whaaaa ;( whaaaa! i've got to get out of this place.

 

anyway, i know some peeps on here don't like or agree with Peat's idea's but i am actually thinking of having a consult with him about all of this. thinking about it?? although he'd better not answer my questions with that asinine answer he gave the last timehttp://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/confused/confusion-smiley-emoticon.gif

[[pr...]]

so what kind of prog are you on ihope?

[[ih...]]

Prescription vaginal cream compounded by the chemist.

[[ho...]]

60mg is the dose which clinical trials found necessary to sufficiently balance estrogen, so approximately this, but I may have erred on the side of more to compensate for loss of cream due to lots of sweating in the middle of our very hot summer.

 

Didn't want to face another sleepless night so took a standard dose this afternoon & wow, within an hour, it felt like I had taken a benzo, very calm & a little drowsy so I think I have my answer. Will go for the blood test tomorrow & if the results bear out my suspicions of progesterone overload, it's a prog taper for me. What a doozy as this stuff makes me feel good, (except for the bloat).

 

This is so interesting isn't it.  Such a mystery. 

 

I also have the bloat.  Benzo Belly --- bloat and lots of other GI sx.  It has been a constant since I started.  Even though I've lost wt I can't wear my usual clothes, all stretchy pants or skirts now. 

It does get a little better and I think I'm over that one and then it comes back.  It seems like my whole bowel system is trying to learn how to be normal and it is taking a very long time. 

[[ho...]]

yes, please keep us posted i hope!

 

hope56, yes, i guess that is a huge cut and i probably did a little c/t from the prog. i really don't know what to do anymore, or right now? i hope a window will open for me about what to do?

 

yes, those auditory hallucinations makes one feel as if on a kinda bad acid trip. although i hear music all arranged and in symphonies that i really wish i could just jot down as i am a musician. that part is pretty cool.

 

i too have the TV on the lowest. oh and 'they' don't understand how the clanking of the dishes is a far worse noise than the sound of the train going by.

i live kinda close to a fwy where the cars never bothered me at all. now, when my brain does it's certain 'thing' sometimes each car takes my brain with it as they travel sown the highway. that is the worst because there's nothing i can do. whaaaa ;( whaaaa! i've got to get out of this place.

 

anyway, i know some peeps on here don't like or agree with Peat's idea's but i am actually thinking of having a consult with him about all of this. thinking about it?? although he'd better not answer my questions with that asinine answer he gave the last timehttp://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/confused/confusion-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

It is really hard to know what to do, but there is a consistent theme in the success stories and that is clean living and time.  No magic bullet fixes us, just patience with the process.

 

All of the weird sensations are just that sensations.  I constantly remind myself of this.  They won't hurt me, they haven't hurt me and won't, so I need to breath, relax and let them do their thing.

Bliss talks about the sx are signs of healing.  That I find hard to believe, but also try to use that when it is bad (like now) to imagine my little GABA receptors all over my body trying hard to repair and I'm suffering for it. 

 

Anyway -- Stay Strong!

[[pr...]]

oh God! did i need to hear that right now. "Bliss talks about sx as signs of healing" i sent her a note but she hasn't responded?

 

i need some Help! i don't know what happened to me? i am in the worst wave ever! i don't know if it's the progesterone or lack there of?

i don't what is happening right now? i am having that weird nauseous wave occurring and i'm not sure if it's hormonal or benzo w/d?

i am having extreme tightness around my knees which makes it hard to walk. i actually just got out of bed and it is almost 11pm.

i was bad all day. i couldn't sleep and the thoughts were the worst they have ever been. i really feel like i am not healing.

my brain is pounding out of control causing me to blink my eyes uncontrollably. everything is stinging and burning. and everytime i start a new post, i am the only one on that post. i feel like screaming but i can't--i feel like crying but i can't. i am shaking. and all i can think about now is--is this a progesterone w/d or a benzo w/d?

 

i tapered from my vivelle dot estradiol patch as well as the prometrium last month when i started Peat's progest+E.

i just put on a little bit more of the patch the other day because i thought maybe those waves of nauseousness was from tapering from both estradiol and prometrium too fast.

i just don't know? now i am even scared to be on any progesterone if it could complicate the Gaba receptor's to up/regulate.

 

i am seeing my OBGYN later in the month for a pelvic u/s. i obviously will ask for a blood test. does anyone know exactly what hormones--all hormones i should check for. and i am late on my period after i was getting it monthly the last 3-4 months fresh in a benzo w/d.

again--i really wish i knew what to do about this hormone thing. i prayed all day today for answers. i am having horrible anxiety, dp/dr, tremoring and vibrating like there are millions of tuning forks on top of my brain. it's horrible, and mom is being a big B-(&$#

thanks, pretty

[[do...]]

prettydaisys

I am sorry I cannot be much of help right now - I am barely able to think, being two days Keppra-free. You asked what hormones to check - it is tricky because not only you must check prog., estro-, testo- etc but almost each of them must be checked on a special day of your menstrual cycle and yet it may not be enough... I went through this myself.

Next, just like you I went through "is it W/D? Is it hormonal?" I could not answer. Even now, after two years the only thing I know that my "cold waves" and shaking which occur after ovulation and go on up to my period are hormonal - but what exactly going on I have no idea.

This is certainly not helpful but that's all I can say, apart from that all symptoms tend to diminish with time.

[[ho...]]

oh God! did i need to hear that right now. "Bliss talks about sx as signs of healing" i sent her a note but she hasn't responded?

 

i need some Help! i don't know what happened to me? i am in the worst wave ever! i don't know if it's the progesterone or lack there of?

i don't what is happening right now? i am having that weird nauseous wave occurring and i'm not sure if it's hormonal or benzo w/d?

i am having extreme tightness around my knees which makes it hard to walk. i actually just got out of bed and it is almost 11pm.

i was bad all day. i couldn't sleep and the thoughts were the worst they have ever been. i really feel like i am not healing.

my brain is pounding out of control causing me to blink my eyes uncontrollably. everything is stinging and burning. and everytime i start a new post, i am the only one on that post. i feel like screaming but i can't--i feel like crying but i can't. i am shaking. and all i can think about now is--is this a progesterone w/d or a benzo w/d?

 

i tapered from my vivelle dot estradiol patch as well as the prometrium last month when i started Peat's progest+E.

i just put on a little bit more of the patch the other day because i thought maybe those waves of nauseousness was from tapering from both estradiol and prometrium too fast.

i just don't know? now i am even scared to be on any progesterone if it could complicate the Gaba receptor's to up/regulate.

 

i am seeing my OBGYN later in the month for a pelvic u/s. i obviously will ask for a blood test. does anyone know exactly what hormones--all hormones i should check for. and i am late on my period after i was getting it monthly the last 3-4 months fresh in a benzo w/d.

again--i really wish i knew what to do about this hormone thing. i prayed all day today for answers. i am having horrible anxiety, dp/dr, tremoring and vibrating like there are millions of tuning forks on top of my brain. it's horrible, and mom is being a big B-(&$#

thanks, pretty

 

(((((((((Pretty)))))))))

I am soooo sorry that you are suffering so much.

You did do a fast and big cut on the progesterone dose.  You haven't mentioned if you tapered the estrogen or cted. 

My prescriber told me 14 days in/14 days out with the hormones.  In otherwords it takes 14 days for them to make a difference when you start to take them and 14 days for them to clear when you stop.

Can you check your journals to see if your sx reved 2 weeks after you stopped the 100 mg progesterone? 

It is so hard to say as sx come and go with or without something to rev them.  Mine definitely rev with exercise, and if I eat onions or dairy; otherwise I don't really know what causes my waves to hit. 

 

I'm not convinced that my recent tsunami is from my prog taper (down to 5 mg/day).  I'm back on my original dose (10 mg/day) now for 12 days and still dizzy.  I really haven't gotten much better since the wave hit a month ago

 

PD - I wish there were something I could do to help you.  To take away all your sx.

XOX

[[do...]]

i tapered from my vivelle dot estradiol patch as well as the prometrium last month when i started Peat's progest+E.

i just put on a little bit more of the patch the other day because i thought maybe those waves of nauseousness was from tapering from both estradiol and prometrium too fast.

i just don't know? now i am even scared to be on any progesterone if it could complicate the Gaba receptor's to up/regulate.

Hi again,

I think it is a mistake is to W/D from several things at the same time/ almost at the same time. Beginning/ stopping hormonal treatment (any) certainly can give very weird symptoms.

 

Take care.

 

[[pr...]]

thanks doublewave and hope!

 

it probably is a mistake to be tapering so fast from the biods while in this benzo w/d.

 

that's funny hope, my symptoms rev up when i try to scoop out this ice cream that is so hard to scoop out and then the carton is so freezing. i swear to God, i start revving up like little helicopters inside my body ready for take off.

 

i did say awhile back that i have been tapering from the vivelle dot estradiol patch from 1mg. twice weekly. so i would put a 1mg. patch on a tues. and change it for another 1mg. patch on a sat. i had been doing this for about 3 years.

and between 100-200mg. prometrium for the first 12 days of every month.

 

so when i got Peat's progest+E on Dec. 4th. i pretty much stopped the prometrium cold turkey.

and i tapered down to 1mg. vivelle dot estradiol patch once a week.

 

so the only progesterone i was having since Dec 4th is Peats and about 3mg. a night.

 

i don't know the difference between how Peat's progest works versus prometrium?

 

right now, i am going to read the directions very carefully of how to use Peat's progest+E. and i also may stop all progesterone for the rest of the month and then start it back up the 1st of Feb. and do some more trial and error.

 

it's really confusing to me? and the last period was on Dec. 4th for only about 1 day. and it was right after i used Peat's progest inserted vaginally. i have never ever been this confused? i don't really have the best OBGYN. but i am going to explain everything when i do go at the end of the month.

 

i will try to explain the Gaba receptor's and benzo w/d. i just don't know? i am thoroughly confused?

i am not having that much wave's of nausea any more after i eat. so i really think that it was during my ovulation. and i guess i am too thin since i am only 90lbs, not enough progesterone and in the benzo w/d-- that i missed my period.

 

i will find a way to find out what to do somehow. i am praying everyday about this. i usually get really great answer's from my subconscious mind when i do this water technique before bed that i learn from "The Silva Method' about how to use your subconscious. i swear it works everytime. and i never have to do anything. so i am going to do that tonight!

 

thanks so much! pretty

[[ho...]]

((((((((((((((((((Pretty))))))))))))))))

 

Keep us posted.

[[pr...]]

i will keep you posted. i read how to use Ray Peat's prog and it's very different as far as dosage and mg. as far as the prometrium. i did end up not having the same amount of prog. so i could've been in some w/d's. but i was doing okay last night and then i put some of Peat's prog on my lips as suggested and some went down my throat--and my symptoms started reving up right then and there. so---i may go back to the prometrium the first 14 days and off 14 days.

 

it's going to be awhile--not until middle of Feb when i have my blood tests which is fine. i will probably only use Peat's prog on some hype-rpigmentation areas on my face as suggested with some coconut oil (for now)

 

and i will have some consults with a few peeps including Peat if he does that just to see. but i think staying on the prometrium for now will be most beneficial while i am recovering.

 

Hope56, please keep me posted as well.

 

thanks, pretty

[[ho...]]

i will keep you posted. i read how to use Ray Peat's prog and it's very different as far as dosage and mg. as far as the prometrium. i did end up not having the same amount of prog. so i could've been in some w/d's. but i was doing okay last night and then i put some of Peat's prog on my lips as suggested and some went down my throat--and my symptoms started reving up right then and there. so---i may go back to the prometrium the first 14 days and off 14 days.

 

it's going to be awhile--not until middle of Feb when i have my blood tests which is fine. i will probably only use Peat's prog on some hype-rpigmentation areas on my face as suggested with some coconut oil (for now)

 

and i will have some consults with a few peeps including Peat if he does that just to see. but i think staying on the prometrium for now will be most beneficial while i am recovering.

 

Hope56, please keep me posted as well.

 

thanks, pretty

 

Today is day 14 of my progesterone updose and I have not gotten back to my pre-wave scores of 7/8.  I'm still hanging around 5/6.  So now I'm thinking that the wave wasn't caused by the progesterone taper but rather is just part of the healing process.

 

I am going to stay at 10 mg (my updose) for a couple of more weeks and then probably will start a slow taper again.

 

It is so very hard to know what to do. 

 

PD - be careful with the progesterone doses since we know that it is cross tolerant to benzos.  Also when you consult with folks who are not benzo wise, they might not understand what is truly going on with you.

Stay Strong.  XOX

[[pr...]]

oh yes, i know. could you imagine? i go into the OBGYN's office and start rattling off

 

"well, right now, my Gaba receptor's are still in a down/regulation and i am having them heal and go back to their up/regulation so i am not sure about progesterone as it is cross tolerant to benzodiazepines and could halt my healing"

oh and the chloride channels have been open way too long and having progesterone keeps them open and then i am worried about the HPA axix and Dr. Peat said this about the medical culture and to drink filtered orange juice for the thyroid and not to have a goiter before i use progesterone"

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/rolling.gifsorry. i am laughing right now.

i am actually a little worried about it. they are really into the prometrium and vivelle dot. i still don't know what to do even after the water technique? but i haven't had any progesterone in a few days and i have felt a lot better. hymmmm?

 

that's good that you don't think the wave you were in was due to prog. and that you will be able to taper again soon!

[[ho...]]

oh yes, i know. could you imagine? i go into the OBGYN's office and start rattling off

 

"well, right now, my Gaba receptor's are still in a down/regulation and i am having them heal and go back to their up/regulation so i am not sure about progesterone as it is cross tolerant to benzodiazepines and could halt my healing"

oh and the chloride channels have been open way too long and having progesterone keeps them open and then i am worried about the HPA axix and Dr. Peat said this about the medical culture and to drink filtered orange juice for the thyroid and not to have a goiter before i use progesterone"

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/rolling.gifsorry. i am laughing right now.

i am actually a little worried about it. they are really into the prometrium and vivelle dot. i still don't know what to do even after the water technique? but i haven't had any progesterone in a few days and i have felt a lot better. hymmmm?

 

that's good that you don't think the wave you were in was due to prog. and that you will be able to taper again soon!

 

It is funny -- so we try out best to help ourselves...

 

Great that you are feeling better!!!  That is wonderful -- enjoy it!!

[[su...]]

Just wanted to commiserate!  I too have been on the progesterone merry-go-round...finally discovered its cross tolerance and tapered off the cream during my benzo wd (and had to "explain" why to the professionals!) 

 

Hang in there ladies!

[[pr...]]

i am still unsure of everything?http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/confused/yellow-smiley-confused-emoticon.gif

[[ho...]]

SunnyGirl -- please give more details about your prog taper.  How much were you on, how did you taper, how long to go off, any rev sx, etc...  Thanks!

 

PG -- let's start a new club:  The Unsure of Everythings!!  We'll be the first two members!!

[[su...]]

I think being unsure of everything is a benzo wd symptom! 

 

I was on a compounded cream...which was adjusted according to my symptoms/bloodwork and also included testosterone.  I tapered by lowering the dosage monthly.  My doc said to just drop down to half for one month and then go off of it but I was in the throes of benzo wd and I wasn't really trusting that that wasn't too quick (since he wasn't familiar with how slowly you should taper off benzos).  I took about 4 mos to do it I believe.  I can't really say if I had any additional sx or revving...I was only about 4 mos out of a ct so I was in rough shape anyway.  But I'm really happy I got off it and won't ever mess with it again.  Someone here on bb posted ways to help your hormones naturally...I'm not sure I could find it again though.   

 

I didn't (read: wasn't able to) read through this whole thread but if someone hasn't posted it already Perserverance started a really good informational thread called "Progesterone and benzos" a while back.  Here is the link:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=47259.msg639848#msg639848

 

Hope this helps y'all!

[[ho...]]

Wow Paige -- so interesting.  Thanks for posting here.

 

Update for me:  I am still using the 10 mg progesterone drops at night that I updosed from 5 mg on 1/3.  The wave that started 12/13 broke 2/25.  So it was almost 2 months post updose.  I do not think my wave was caused by my slow taper off progesterone.  I don't know what caused it, but at this point I don't think it was the prog. 

 

I'm planning to stay at this dose until the beginning of May when I'll be 18 months benzo free and try again a very slow -- 6 - 9 month taper off the prog.

 

How are the rest of you doing??