Bioidentical progesterone cream causes withdrawal similar to benzo-

[[Su...]]

I'm sorry, Sunny.  Are you dead set against trying progesterone, perhaps you may tolerate it better at 2 years out. Unfortunately, all the healthy living in the world has not been shown to be as effective for these hormonal problems as HRT.

 

No, I'm not dead set against trying bioidentical progesterone, just scared to death of it! I've read so many horror stories about progesterone withdrawal...how it led some back to benzos, or started the whole benzo nightmare in the first place. The LAST thing I want to do is ever go through any withdrawal of any kind EVER again! But at the same time, I'm miserable from PMS and the insomnia I get from it, and the roller coaster of emotions and the irritability..I mean I am AWFUL and MISERABLE a good week to week and a half before my period. My husband and kids are getting really sick of it too.  :'(

[[ih...]]

I wish I had some suggestions, Sunny, I understand your dilemma. Have you tried & are you able to tolerate fish oil & evening primrose oil.  Sometimes essential fatty acids can help with hormones.

[[pr...]]

Sunny,

in addition to the prometrium which i eventually want to discontinue and find other ways to balance my hormones after this dreaded w/d. i do use this cream between my thighs and sometimes as a face cream because it is definitely ass natural and maybe it has a good or different percentage of progesterone in it that won't rev up symptoms.

it's from Quality Natural Health and you can google Gesterone Cream or Rejuvenation Cream from QNHShop and read about it

 

Quantum Natural Gesterone Cream

1.5 oz Human bio-identical, chemical-free, superior absorption, wild yam derived natural progesterone cream. Healthy progesterone levels support normal thyroid function.

 

PMS & Menopause Support

 

    The Only Natural Progesterone Cream On Earth made with our exclusive highly charged plant mineral cream base

    These beneficial, bio-electromagnetically charged plant mineral ions completely eliminate the need for toxic preservatives

    100% nontoxic cream

    Absolutely no toxic tagalongs - no benzene, propylene glycol, parabens, carbomer 940, polysorbate 60, stearal konium chloride, cetyl alcohol, peg 8 stearate or other toxics

    Unparalleled cell uptake

    Up to 98% absorption by the cell as compared to 3 to 6% with ordinary creams

    Quickly absorbed by the cell

    Not sticky; leaves no residue on your skin

    Bio-Enhanced Bone, Endocrine and Skin Support

 

 

Supports healthy hormone balance with 100% natural progesterone cream (USP grade)

Made from wild yam (not synthetic sources) Promotes healthy estrogen/ progesterone ratios

Contains no synthetic hormones

Preserved with highly charged plant minerals

 

i don't this one, i have the Rejuvenation Cream for the face but i am definitely going to get this Gesterone Cream and i may use it instead of the prometrium.

i love this company. totally natural with not one chemical or toxic tagalong.

 

PrettyDaisys

[[do...]]

No, I'm not dead set against trying bioidentical progesterone, just scared to death of it!

(gloomily) So as I. I am trying to manage my cycles with vitamins B and E, as I wrote in details in my "Success Story" but vitamins are not enough in my case I suspect... My previous cycle was great - totally normal (with a normal PMS) but it happened after I used synthetic progesterone to stop abnormal bleeding. I think that prog. probably kicked something in my system and made my next cycle normal. The next circle (current) is not as good: I am not even sure when was my ovulation and now i feel like I am PMS-ing - bloating and very irritable ((. My intuition tells me I do have prog. deficiency. I have the jar of prog. but I am too scared to use it .

[Guest [Ly...]]

It took me 18 months to heal, but heal I did. I felt absolutely normal for six years, prior to taking an antiviral. I do believe that the symptoms I am experiencing now will diminish in far less time than it took to normalize after benzos....but the message is, you can heal. It just takes time. But gradually you get better and the symptoms diminish very slowly until you eventually find yourself able to focus on other things besides how you feel.....and then, gradually, you feel fine. I've been there. I know.....and I was incredibly sick with hundreds of symptoms, skeletal, tremouring, akathesia, the whole gammit.....healing happens...

 

[[pr...]]

Lynnie,

so glad to read your post after what i've been reading on here so far tonight and the say i am feeling at 5 1/2 months after a bad cold turkey and off of a lot of soma as well as the c/t of benzo's.

i swear i thought just for a second this morning that i was healed as my brain was finally calm after some good sleep for the first time in months. and then BOOM--come 11am and i started to fly around the room with my arms straight up as i was lying there.

my brain had all this pressure towards the front which made my arms go up as if i were flying. i really thought i might start to fly.

and then i didn't feel so healed and it's been like this all day long.

i am upset about the whole progesterone thing as i would like to still use it for the first 2 weeks of the month like i was told by my endocrinologist.

and i was reading a post on here that makes me feel i will have these horrible ongoing symptoms after 2 years. and i am worried about that too.

so it's good to see your post, Lynnie! i am so happy you are healed!

i really hope i will be healed too!

prettydaisys

[Guest [Ly...]]

Hi prettydaisies,

I know you will heal. These chemicals change your own neurotransmitters and your personal chemistry is just terribly imbalanced. But the most wonderful thing about the human body is that it can find a path to wellness....it just instinctively does this but nerves take the longest to heal out of all of the body organs/systems so it seems like forever before you begin to feel normal again. It happens though, it really does. I am suffering from having taken a drug (an antifungal) in mid-September but this time around I can detach myself from my raging symptoms a little and just float with them, like a cork on stormy seas, until they gradually subside. I refuse to panic this time, I am attempting rather to remain calm and distract myself as much as possible ( I realize that when symptoms are at their worst, distraction is not possible).

You'll heal, pretty, it is almost imperceptible on a daily or weekly basis, but it really does happen....:-)

[[pr...]]

thank you Lynnie,

what antifugal were you taking? was it diflucan? i am looking forward to start using the nystatin anti-fungal but just don't wish to start anything until i heal from this. i was diagnosed with MS but i am starting to think that i may not have that at all--this may all be benzo's. anyway, i was told that taking the nystatin would help with any candida issues that are most times associated with Ms. i really think i have been misdiagnosed and that this is all from benzo's-which is a good thing for me. i have a lot of healing to do.

i am going to try to use the progesterone-prometrium again this month, but i really hope it doesn't rev up symptoms. i will let you know.

pretty

[[sa...]]

Hi all,        I use Menosense by Womensense (it's on amazon.com with good buyer comments).  I ran out of capsules once (first time since w/d started) and  all my symptoms were worse.  But, since it's the best  product for menopause that I've tried, I intend to use it indefinitely.    Also am going to try Adrenasense for fatigue (low energy) which contains Ashwagandha and Rhodiala.  sandi      (6 months out from  c/t)

[[pe...]]

I haven't had the time today to read this whole thread, just the last few posts so I hope this is relevant. 

 

If you are reluctant or have had a bad experience with progesterone then you might consider other dietary methods to lower the estrogen in your system.  After all, it is my understanding that the progesterone is used to "oppose" excess estrogen which tends to build up in our system as we age and cause the unwanted symptoms.  Some believe that estrogen gets trapped along with a lot of other unwanted junk in the bowels, kept there by certain fibers and things fermenting in the gut.  One way to "move things along" so to speak is to eat a carrot salad daily -- grated carrot with some vinegar, coconut oil and salt.  The root fiber won't get digested and also won't ferment in the gut and will have anti estrogen and antibiotic effect as it goes through.  I have tried this for about a month and I have noticed that I really don't need much progesterone anymore.  Maybe this will help someone, and I can give reference info if anyone is interested.

[[pr...]]

hi pentimento! i am definitely interested!

[[pe...]]

Here's summary I found:

 

http://mamanatural.com/a-carrot-a-day-keeps-pms-at-bay/

 

If you really get interested, I would read the work of Ray Peat (raypeat.com), a biologist and researcher in the field for 40+ years.  Some of his writing can be technical so you'd need a bit of time, but he writes on female hormones, diet, and other health topics.  His stuff is controversial to some, because he tends to debunk what modern "science," which in his view has been hijacked by industry and the pharmaceutical companies, tells us is good for us. 

 

He doesn't have anything to sell, and his ideas don't involve investing a bunch of cash in supplements or anything.  He sees the body as an intuitive and self-repairing thing, and his approach to good health is really is a dietary one, giving your body life supporting substances.  Bottom line:  I have seen real health improvements after reading, rereading, and reading his stuff again and then gradually implementing some of his dietary ideas.  He doesn't have a diet per se, although people have tried to define one, he just puts the research out there for you to understand.  It takes a while for the stuff to get in, but there is real wisdom there and it has changed my view on things permanently.

 

The carrot salad thing has helped me with bloating and swollen breast issues, and I've also cut way down on starches in my diet because they also tend to hang around a little too long in the gut and cause problems.  It probably takes your body a week or two to get used to it.  I hope this helps!

[[ho...]]

Thank you for the Ray Peat info. 

Seems like a reliable source for the information I need.

[[pr...]]

thanks you pentimento! 

 

for the info about raypeat--will definitely read about what he wrote.

i was wondering if you knew what could help take away fibrorocystic breat tissue? i've had all my life so it seems but now that i am thinking about--mostly when i've been underweight. i don't think i had it when i had some pounds on me and that has been over a decade now. i didn't eat well at all when i was taking klonopin and i sure didn't eat well being in a tolerance and interdose withdrawal for probably 9 years. it's time to undo all of that and really start eating rightly and putting on some pounds which i don't know how i am going to do that as i eat bodyecology diet mostly and no wheat, no sugar, no refined foods, no gluten, no fatty fried food so how could i put on some weight?

and i do hope there is a way to heal the fibrocystic breats.

thanks, pretty

[[pe...]]

Hmm, I have similar issues.  I do think that progesterone is helpful for that, because I think it's a result of long term inflammation due to excess estrogen in the tissues.  Coffee, vitamin E and aspirin are other anti-estrogenic things -- you may want to read Peat's papers on those subjects.  He has some really different ideas on diet that took me a while to really understand, but now I'm thankful that I do.  He basically believes that polyunsaturated fats (including fish oil) cause long-term inflammation in the body, especially along with excess estrogen, and advocates eating more sugar as carbs to avoid a fat-burning metabolism which releases toxic fats in the bloodstream.  Supplementing and/or cooking with coconut oil can also help, and saturated fats in butter, cheese, and milk are also protective.  I'm trying to summarize here, but it really takes spending some time with his writings, and I know it sounds contrary to everything we think we know, but when you read his stuff it really makes sense and is not based on some random health claims, but based on research.  His entire approach is to lower inflammation in the body by providing the right fats and nutrients for the body to heal. 

 

He does consult with people, but he has more recently taken his contact info off his website -- was getting too many book orders and giving out too much free advice I think.  He has gotten really popular of late, although he's been saying the same things for a very long time in his newsletters.  However, you can find his contact info other places if you get to that point.  I would say read as much as you can of his stuff and see if it speaks to you.  For me, it took a while to be convinced,and it took several reads to really get it, and to get all of that other BS that's in the media and passes for science out of my head

[[ho...]]

Hmm, I have similar issues.  I do think that progesterone is helpful for that, because I think it's a result of long term inflammation due to excess estrogen in the tissues.  Coffee, vitamin E and aspirin are other anti-estrogenic things -- you may want to read Peat's papers on those subjects.  He has some really different ideas on diet that took me a while to really understand, but now I'm thankful that I do.  He basically believes that polyunsaturated fats (including fish oil) cause long-term inflammation in the body, especially along with excess estrogen, and advocates eating more sugar as carbs to avoid a fat-burning metabolism which releases toxic fats in the bloodstream.  Supplementing and/or cooking with coconut oil can also help, and saturated fats in butter, cheese, and milk are also protective.  I'm trying to summarize here, but it really takes spending some time with his writings, and I know it sounds contrary to everything we think we know, but when you read his stuff it really makes sense and is not based on some random health claims, but based on research.  His entire approach is to lower inflammation in the body by providing the right fats and nutrients for the body to heal. 

 

He does consult with people, but he has more recently taken his contact info off his website -- was getting too many book orders and giving out too much free advice I think.  He has gotten really popular of late, although he's been saying the same things for a very long time in his newsletters.  However, you can find his contact info other places if you get to that point.  I would say read as much as you can of his stuff and see if it speaks to you.  For me, it took a while to be convinced,and it took several reads to really get it, and to get all of that other BS that's in the media and passes for science out of my head

 

I spent some time yesterday reading through his site.  Thanks again for the link, it is very interesting.  A lot to digest. 

Do you know if he summarizes his dietary suggestions anywhere?

Thanks!

[[pe...]]

Y'know he really doesn't give a summary, but many have attempted to summarize.  If you go to this forum http://www.raypeatforum.com/ you'll see that others have summarized a lot of his work.  I lot of people on this forum have consulted with him directly, so there is a lot of information there.

[[ho...]]

Y'know he really doesn't give a summary, but many have attempted to summarize.  If you go to this forum http://www.raypeatforum.com/ you'll see that others have summarized a lot of his work.  I lot of people on this forum have consulted with him directly, so there is a lot of information there.

 

WOW -- This is fascinating!  Thanks.

[[pr...]]

hi pentimento! i love your name!

wowee, he's a babe!

no fish oil? wow! what would i use in place of that? actually i am only using about 2 grams of the Mor O3 by Minami Nutrtion. i take the softgel and i cut the ends off and suck out the oil. i don't like using softgels with all those chemicals. i do the same with the Jarrow Ubiquinol coQ10-cut the ends and suck out the oil.

so what should i use in place of a fish oil?

i will have to spend some time  and read all that he says to do. i am sure he has a good logical reason for that and a replacements of what to do?

i wonder what he thinks about candida issues if he advocates eating more sugar? i am definitely interested now!

[[pe...]]

Hi guys, you are welcome.  I don't really think I can say enough about how I feel about Ray Peat, his research and philosophies.  He does come out of left field given all of the stuff we are fed, so to speak, on a daily basis about health and nutrition.  I think you just have to read him -- and read again -- and then you start to see that he has no agenda other than putting his research out there.  He does, however, point out the agendas of the food and supplement industries, etc., in popularizing certain notions and promoting questionable research which supports the consumption of their products.  He doesn't advertise or self-promote, so his more recent popularity is due to word of mouth, and some of his supporters are people in the fields of health and nutrition who have pretty much junked whatever they learned in college.

 

Oh, yeah, and I've always been attracted to that intelligent, nerdy type too, however he's is now in his seventies 

 

As for the fish oil, you don't need to replace it with anything.  Why do you take it?  I took it for over ten years thinking it was good for my heart and cardio, and it really gives me pause hoping that I didn't do myself too much damage. It takes about four years to get those oils out of your system after you stop taking.    In a nutshell, PUFA's slow the metabolism, set the stage for cancer (esp along with too much estrogen), contribute to premature aging, brown spots on the skin, arterial damage and more.  I don't expect that I'm going to convince you of this right here, but I encourage you to think for yourself about it.  It went against everything I thought I knew, and it took me about six months after I read The Great Fish Oil Experiment, and then read of other Peat stuff, listened to some interviews of him, before it finally sunk in.  Now even in popular media you see reason for doubt that fish oil is good for you, inconclusive studies and so on, but these are of course ignored by fish oil proponents.    Peat doesn't really tell you to do anything, just puts his research out there for you to decide.  I think we're so used to just being told what to do to fix or prevent something that we don't question enough and we're seeing the health consequences (take benzos for example!) years later.

 

I do think he says some things about candida but I'm not sure where I've seen that in the literature.  The Peat forum is a good place to ask that question and, in the spirit of Peat, people there are happy to share their knowledge.  It takes a while to really understand his approach, so I think you are asking the right questions.  Taken out of context, some his ideas sound really far fetched, because we are so indoctrinated with all of the other noise and things we think we know based on what the media is telling us.  For me, it was like a seed when I accidentally found his body of work.  If it speaks to you, keep reading!

[[pr...]]

hey pentimento,

i take the fish oil for my brain i suppose. i was diagnosed with MS in 2002 but i have no trace of anything MS symptoms progressing in anyway since. i really am starting to think that i had a protracted withdrawals symptoms the day they diagnosed me with the MS as i had been benzo free once before this time.

anyway, so that is why i take the fish oil and i also thought it would be good for skin and hormones.

so, does Peat talk about any substitute for the fish oil that is good from brain, skin, heart & hormomes?

i still haven't been able to read what you sent as i still haven't been able to get up during the day and then the night goes by so fast.

i have literally been in bed all day during the day for 6 months now. i just still have not one trace of energy during the day and my brain is still so active and pounding it keeps me down. this is a bad cold turkey for me. and i'm not surprised. i've been through this so many times before i surprised i am still alive. they call my withdrawal a 'kindling'. and boy am i ever kindling.

but i will definitely take out the time to read his work-it does speak to me?

pretty

[[pr...]]

i just read through this article and yes i am interested in reading more about this.

 

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml

 

i am curious to know what he reccomends for brain, skin and hormones as an alternative and every things else mentioned in that article that we know today or think that fish oil can help us with like neurological degerative diseases?

thanks!

[[pe...]]

Hi pretty,

 

Wow, sorry you are going through such a bad time.  I have been through quite a bit myself, feeling a bit better these days though.  I had MS-like symptoms too, and it wasn't for benzobuddies I probably wouldn't have a clue as to what was going on.  Most symptoms are subsiding or come in waves, so it's pretty much by the book.  I hope you are feeling better soon.

 

I think that Peat would say that neurological degenerative diseases are in fact caused largely by PUFA's, although they are sold as something else.  The whole idea that we need to "take something" to prevent degeneration is just not right, although watching the TV with all of it's ads telling us what we "need" has somehow brainwashed all of us into thinking this way without question.  I just go back to Peat's "life supporting substances":  protein, calcium, saturated fats, sugar, salt, magnesium and so on in a balanced way so that the body gets what it needs.  What we need is FOOD, and the right foods   Once you get this, and get rid of all of the junk that your body doesn't need and has to deal with, the degeneration of the body slows or stops, and regeneration is possible.  Like I said, it's impossible to get his whole philosophy overnight.  He doesn't organize his work in a way that is meant as a proscription for someone to do, so it's more like you will find the information you need among his different papers.  After a while it starts to come together.  I'm glad it speaks to you!  I think it's the truth, or the closest thing to the truth about the path to health and good nutrition that is possible to know.

 

As far as hormones, by far the best thing you could be doing is getting off the benzos and recovering, as those can throw your adrenals and everything else out of whack.  The best thing for hormones is, again, the right foods and substances for you.  Personally, I supplement with progesterone as needed, although I've needed a lot less of it since I started eating the Peat way.  There is no right prescription for everyone.  I think just educating yourself is a huge step in the right direction.  I just started experimenting on myself with different substances:  progesterone, sugar, salt, carrots -- the really hardcore stuff (!) to see what kind of effects they would have on me, and I keep finding that my personal results are pretty much the same as what Peat says they will be.  I have NEVER seen these kinds of results with the claims for ANY of the multitude of vitamins and supplements that I have taken over the years.

 

I hope this is helpful to you.  It's a lot of information, and as I said it's taken me a while to really understand and make the changes that I need for me, and I am still learning.  I think in the long run it will be useful to you too.

[[pr...]]

hi pentimento!

 

well, i've just been reading this article! and i am sold and hooked!

 

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml

 

he also states that l-tryptophan used by itself is toxic. so that's out. but for me, and of course i have to do alot more research readings on Peat--right now, i really need to substitute the fish oil i've been taking with at  least a good coconut oil.

do you know of a brand that he recommends? he said that 'Hain' doesn't make it any longer and Spectrum looks not good, i forget what he said, but it's in the article.

i would love if you could send me anything you have on his writings to my PM box. are you able to do that? meanwhile i will keep on googling things and just read and research. i knew that it really did speak to me.

 

Dr. Terry Whals basically says the same thing about foods and she has a book called 'Eating for your Mitochondria' she bascially says it's the hunter gather's diet that helps the brain. i don't know her stand on fish oil though?

 

what kind of progesterone are you using? right now i am just using the prometrium and the doctor says it's a bio-identical from yams and even a person on this thread said it was a bio-identical but i am always looking for something even more safe and something that can kinda says to my hormones, 'hey, wake up!' not something that is going to make them not be able to producs on their own. or make them sluggish.

does that make sense?

but definitely something that is very safe and natural.

i like the Quality Natural Health-- (QNHshop) a lot because there supplements, vitamins and progesterone and everything they carry is totally safe, natural, effective and not one toxic tagalong.

i would love to know what you think about the products? you can just google QNHshop and/or quaility natural health

lastly, is Flax oil an oil that peat says is a PUFA?

 

so you had MS symptoms too? it seems like the MS symptoms and the benzo's symptoms are exactly the same. i came across a whole bunch of symptoms by Bliss Jones and they were excatly the same symptoms as MS. so therefore, i am really not sure if i even have MS?  just because it was 'diagnosed' by a doctor.

and it states in all the benzo literature i've read that medical tests usually come up false when taking a benzo and when in withdrawals.

i also had this one blood test, anti-coagulant test come up 'wrong' for five years and the doctor was worried i would have blood clots and i just knew in my heart that it was because i was still on the klonopin trying to taper and also still on the suboxone opiate.

anyway, that would great if you could PM me with any other ray peat into that you may have. i really dig him 

thanks, Pretty

[[pe...]]

Hi pretty.  You pretty much have access to all of the information that I do.  I'm really not qualified to advise anybody on supplements or what have you, I would only say that dietary things are most important and sometimes when you straighten those things out you don't really need any supplements.  Not everybody agrees with Ray Peat so I think you're just going to have to decide for yourself if his approach is right for you.  I would urge you to take the time to understand his entire approach, because it really only involves supplements when absolutely necessary.  You could start with the carrot salad!  I'm not familiar with the writers you listed.  As for me, I've been spending way too much on this board and not living my life, so I'm logging off for a bit.  I hope some of the information is useful to you!