Bioidentical progesterone cream causes withdrawal similar to benzo-

[[Vi...]]

Bio identical hormon cream did not worked for me.

They put me on last year right after when I came off benzo. It did not help with sleep or anxiety. I didn't know that time about cross tolerance and used it for 6 months. Then I find out here is effecting the same reseptors and came off in 2 months. I was on low dose, but it was a hell to come off. Same like benzo. Im going trough peri menapouse and my projesterone is very low my doctor keep telling me I should go back on it. It would help with my anxiety. But I'm scared. Scared to take anything now.

So scared what is the future holds for me. This benzo withrawl, Remeron withrawl, and projesterone cream withrawl is just tomuch for my brain. No wonder why my brain is still burning after 16 months out.

Hoping I will survive.

Love and healing for you all.

Vica

 

[[Li...]]

Vica55...I'm so sorry the cream did not work for you.  I didn't know it was affecting the Gaba either till after I C/T'd off it...stupid of me...should have researched it.  You are right, it's tough to get off of and I haven't even started tapering off my Librium yet.  I currently am not sure what to do as low Progesterone levels can mimic Benzo WD's.  From what I've read on other threads is that it's not good to introduce it till you are more healed from the Benzo but even those 7 months off have had issues with it and some haven't.  So it's hard to figure out what to do. 

 

It seems like Bio P is so potent...some people feel drunk on it.  I never felt that way on Birth control pills. 

 

Have you tried Magnesium pills?  I started taking them and think they might be helping.  My anxiety I had after getting off the Progesterone has subsided.  But I assume it will come back once I start tapering my benzo.  I hope I survive that. 

 

Sorry you are suffering.  I trusted my doc when he switched me over to Bio's....messed me up big time. 

[[pr...]]

i am so upset and having so much trouble now getting off the bio identical progesterone (prometrium).

 

i can't believe this! i feel like i am in tolerance withdrawal all over again.

 

i should have listened to myself when i wrote this post in 2015:

 

i had shared my experience with prometrium (progesterone) on the mentrual support thread. i had been using it for years but only on my legs and NOT internally or vaginally. i thought i would try it orally and i took it three days in a row and everything seemed fine. i didn't seem to react to it at all. but yesterday i took it orally again and was knocked out. totally sedated and fell asleep during the day which i never do and had a hard nap.

 

and it made me kinda groggy and sedated all day. this morning i woke up after having grueseome 'themed' nightmares all night and the head pressure is much worse today. i had done some more research last night after re-reading Perseverance's thread on "progesterone and benzo's" in the 'other medications section and i had found a few other links about the cross tolerance between progesterone and benzo's that i had posted on the 'menstrual support thread'

 

suffice to say i won't be taking this bio-identical prometrium orally anymore and maybe not until i am way more healed from the benzo withdrawal. i feel it could possibly halt the healing process and complicate matters. i am going to allow my body to try to come back into balance naturally for now as much as i would like to be taking this bio-identical.

 

i may possibly onlyl use the contents on my labia and legs for now. just because i really would like to be taking this, but too afraid.

 

 

 

i wanted to try it years later when i was more healed but now just having so much trouble getting off it. i can't taper just like i couldn't taper the benzos. i may put up another new post in the protracted section about this. sorry i can't be much help to anyone else on here right now. i feel like i am in trouble. i cannot gauge my healing because of this! darn!

 

[[Li...]]

prettydaisys...I'm so sorry...are you on the cream or the oral?  The metabolites of the oral P is so much more potent it seems.  I've wanted to try a cream but now scared to.  I clearly don't understand why I did so well on birth control pills for years at the same time while taking Librium but within 4 months of taking oral Bio P, I got issues.  Was worried about tolerance as well after reading on here.  It scares me that doctors are so clueless on meds that affect the Gaba receptors.  I tried to explain it today to my neuro doc but he had a blank look on his face. 

 

If you are taking the oral pills, it's hard to taper off those...I guess you could have them compounded into smaller doses?  Or if you are on cream do the same?  All know is I'm suffering still from having low P levels....so I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.  I will look in the protracted section and see if you post something there.  I'm new here and haven't fully looked over this forum.

 

Hopefully someone can help us as it seems the doctors can't! 

[[pr...]]

prettydaisys...I'm so sorry...are you on the cream or the oral?  The metabolites of the oral P is so much more potent it seems.  I've wanted to try a cream but now scared to.  I clearly don't understand why I did so well on birth control pills for years at the same time while taking Librium but within 4 months of taking oral Bio P, I got issues.  Was worried about tolerance as well after reading on here.  It scares me that doctors are so clueless on meds that affect the Gaba receptors.  I tried to explain it today to my neuro doc but he had a blank look on his face. 

 

If you are taking the oral pills, it's hard to taper off those...I guess you could have them compounded into smaller doses?  Or if you are on cream do the same?  All know is I'm suffering still from having low P levels....so I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.  I will look in the protracted section and see if you post something there.  I'm new here and haven't fully looked over this forum.

 

Hopefully someone can help us as it seems the doctors can't!

 

 

 

Hi Lib18,

 

welcome!

 

i'm sorry i can't help you with the birth control pills. i have no knowledge about that other than i think that they are probably not the best idea for hormone replacement. i don't know thought? don't know enough about it.

 

the progesterone i've been using is called prometrium. see, how i used it before -- i would prick the capsule and then put the contents on my legs so it was only applied topically and that seem fine for me. i don't know how much gets absorbed but certainly not the amount as when it's taken orally.

 

so i started to take it orally last month when a lot of extra stressful events took place and now i am stuck on it. i can't seem to get off it. this is what it does for me. i will take it orally, and then about 15 minutes i can start to feel a calm and relax take over and then i am actually able to think really nicely and better than when not on it. it's really nice engaging in thoughts and it's nice for a change to finally be able to think normally and calm. with nice and easy going thoughts.

 

and then it changes:

 

then about an hour or so later, i get really tired, groggy, irritable, angry, rageful, forgetful, and just really sedated. so it's kinda acting like a crach cocaine. at first i feel really good, kinda high and euphoric....and then i crash and come down hard.

 

so i am not able to really gauge my healing. so i have to just get off it and i'm having trouble.

 

today was a good day as far as tapering it and i will keep trying until i am able to just get off it. i will however go b ack to just putting the contents on my legs. that was fine.

 

maybe it was because you were on the Librium at the same time as the birth control pills that you did well on it?

 

i know i am also suffering from low prog levels. but while i am healing from benzo's i just may have to go without it and keep healing and then see what i can take and not take. i haven't posted in the protracted section about this but i still may.

i am also worried about the low B12 levels and reading a book about B12 deficiency. there is o much to be done in this healing from benzos. so much!

[[Li...]]

prettydaisys,

 

Well I never thought about pricking open the pill to get the oil out onto the skin.  I know of lots of ladies who take oral P and have never been on benzos and have issues with it.  Just like the symptoms you have described.  I had to take it before bedtime...even at 100mg it was potent.  Yes, keep putting it on your legs and see how you do.  I don't know how you taper off a pill like that tho other than to go directly to applying it to the skin.

 

From what I've learned on 2 Facebook hormone groups is that many tolerate it and many don't.  There is an article about a woman who had been putting 40 mgs on her legs and then switched over to the 400mg oral and she couldn't drive for fear of falling asleep.  It has to do with the metabolites going first pass through the liver I think.  The liver actually metabolizes 90% of it orally so you don't really get that much of the Progesterone but it's the metabolites it turns into that makes it so potent and for me I felt calm and then just drunk.  Then kinda dizzy on and off during the day. 

 

Yes, I felt great on 5 mgs of Librium and BC pills...either due to the fact that BC pills do decrease the metabolism of Librium therefore, it was like I was getting a bigger Benzo dose and also my Progesterone levels were good.  Now they probably aren't.  Right now the only symptom I have is jaw pain which is why I got on Librium in the first place. 

 

All I can say, is I'm really missing my hormones right now.  And feel like I need them before I start tapering. 

 

Good luck tapering and keep me updated on how you do. 

[[pr...]]

prettydaisys,

 

Well I never thought about pricking open the pill to get the oil out onto the skin.  I know of lots of ladies who take oral P and have never been on benzos and have issues with it.  Just like the symptoms you have described.  I had to take it before bedtime...even at 100mg it was potent.  Yes, keep putting it on your legs and see how you do.  I don't know how you taper off a pill like that tho other than to go directly to applying it to the skin.

 

From what I've learned on 2 Facebook hormone groups is that many tolerate it and many don't.  There is an article about a woman who had been putting 40 mgs on her legs and then switched over to the 400mg oral and she couldn't drive for fear of falling asleep.  It has to do with the metabolites going first pass through the liver I think.  The liver actually metabolizes 90% of it orally so you don't really get that much of the Progesterone but it's the metabolites it turns into that makes it so potent and for me I felt calm and then just drunk.  Then kinda dizzy on and off during the day. 

 

Yes, I felt great on 5 mgs of Librium and BC pills...either due to the fact that BC pills do decrease the metabolism of Librium therefore, it was like I was getting a bigger Benzo dose and also my Progesterone levels were good.  Now they probably aren't.  Right now the only symptom I have is jaw pain which is why I got on Librium in the first place. 

 

All I can say, is I'm really missing my hormones right now.  And feel like I need them before I start tapering. 

 

Good luck tapering and keep me updated on how you do.

 

 

Lib,

 

yes i think going back to just applying it to my legs will be much better. the way i am tapering it is since i do prick the capsule and i put the contents on the back of my hand and then i just apply it on the upper gum area of my mouth so it absorbs through the mouth/gum/saliva area type thing. but i take just a little less each time and put the rest on my leg. so that is the only way i know how to taper this.

 

interesting that the BC decreases the metabolism of Librium. how did you find that out? and yes i can see how you would then get a bigger dose that way. i get a lot of jaw pain too, mostly on my left side and mostly right upon awakening.

 

i am missing my hormones too. where are you at with the Librium right now. are you on any other benzo?

[[Li...]]

Pretty,

 

Very interesting way to taper..may have to mention it to my group.  I still can't believe I just stopped it all C/T'd.  Kinda stupid but it was before I got on here and read all the stuff about it. 

 

I did a search on benzos and oral contraceptives and found out about the metabolism issue.  Librium and a coupla others were listed that did decrease metabolism but there were 3 others that it increased the metabolism.  Had no idea.  No wonder I felt so good tho. 

 

I get the jaw pain on my right side....from a past injury during surgery I guess.  Really is bothersome. 

 

I'm only on 5 mgs of Librium and will hopefully start tapering soon.  I do take Elavil also. 

 

Was looking over your signature again...wow!  Amazing you got off all that.  Congrats!!  No wonder you are concerned over the healing process but I'm praying just taking the P transdermal will be better for you and you'll have no issues. 

 

I went to a doctor yesterday and he's agreed to support me in tapering.  He said it's such a low dose that I should be off it in a month or two...NOT!  He has no clue...I just can't take the chance...slow and steady. I think I will be educating him...lol.  He's a neuro for goodness sake and he prescribes Benzos like they are candy.  He even tried to up my dose!  WTH!  Keep me updated on the P!

[[pr...]]

Pretty,

 

Very interesting way to taper..may have to mention it to my group.  I still can't believe I just stopped it all C/T'd.  Kinda stupid but it was before I got on here and read all the stuff about it. 

 

I did a search on benzos and oral contraceptives and found out about the metabolism issue.  Librium and a coupla others were listed that did decrease metabolism but there were 3 others that it increased the metabolism.  Had no idea.  No wonder I felt so good tho. 

 

I get the jaw pain on my right side....from a past injury during surgery I guess.  Really is bothersome. 

 

I'm only on 5 mgs of Librium and will hopefully start tapering soon.  I do take Elavil also. 

 

Was looking over your signature again...wow!  Amazing you got off all that.  Congrats!!  No wonder you are concerned over the healing process but I'm praying just taking the P transdermal will be better for you and you'll have no issues. 

 

I went to a doctor yesterday and he's agreed to support me in tapering.  He said it's such a low dose that I should be off it in a month or two...NOT!  He has no clue...I just can't take the chance...slow and steady. I think I will be educating him...lol.  He's a neuro for goodness sake and he prescribes Benzos like they are candy.  He even tried to up my dose!  WTH!  Keep me updated on the P!

 

 

 

good that you are educating your doc. i haven't given up on the doctor who "tried to help me with my taper" and who also gave me the drug 'soma' because i was having so much trouble tapering from the benzo's of which i could kill him for doing that. but over these last 5 1/2 years, for some reason i still see him once in awhile and i email him regularly and i just literally keep shoving benzo information down his throat and i gave him The Ashton Manual and i send him link after link about withdrawal syndrome and protracted withdrawal. and he tells me that all of his patients who are on a benzo are having so much trouble getting off it. i would say that he has become a "benzo wise" doctor. i don't know why i kept going to him because i was so angry with him after the cold turkey. but for some odd reason, i kept seeing him and now he is doing things like  Functional Med Doctor with all the blood tests we do.

 

don't get me wrong, i still need a good Functional Med Doc but until i can afford one i will keep seeing this pain management doc. and i still not sure what to do about having a low B12 serum levels because i cannot take any B vitamins and i know an injection would send my brain to the moon so that is another problem.

 

i am still having trouble with tapering the progesterone and just so upset about it. i don't know what to do? i feel like i am stuck in tolerance withdrawal all over again. God darn it! i haven't put up a post in the protracted section yet partly because i am afraid of being judged by some members but maybe i should since i am talking about it on this thread. i need help with this! i need support!

 

but good for you for educating your doc and good luck with your taper.

[[SS...]]

i just read through all 29 pages of this post....... i have always had low progesterone - long before i was exposed to valium for spine surgery.  starting at age 36 i had to use it.  i just turned 42.  because i was getting a period every 14-16 days the health consultant i was using had me using the progesterone daily - once a day on days 1-12 and twice a day on days 13-26.  it is a topical organic progesterone cream.  so - about 25mg first part of cycle and 50mg 2nd part.    i had been reading all about the problems of using progesterone while in withdrawal and got concerned.  so this month - i decided to stop if for days 1-7 of my cycle.  its not uncommon for women in peri-menopause to dose topical progesterone days 7-28.  anyhow - i went into a terrible wave as my period arrived.  after an amazing 18 day window.  i stayed off the progesterone for the 7 days and today i applied the tiny amount and within 30 minutes i was having severe anxiety.....

 

aside from the hell of withdrawal, which i am 3 months into after an uninformed cold turkey - i am having severe acne - i mean severe - and hair loss.  that all was occurring while on the progesterone cream.  my dry skin went to bathing in oil...... i do know my free testosterone swung from the lower third to the upper 3rd.  no explanation other than withdrawal causing this. 

 

it seems like people have tried adding progesterone cream into the mix while in withdrawal.  in my case - i had been on it for 6 years with no issues.  i literally feel like i am back to ground zero of withdrawal horror.  ive been off the progesterone for 7 days and the tiny dose this morning caused severe anxiety - so - not sure if i can really tolerate tapering it.  although i guess the anxiety wore off about 3 hours later. 

 

my poor system has already been shocked terribly from the cold turkey valium withdrawal so really sitting here so confused about what to do about the progesterone cream...... i can't find any health professional that understands anything about this so having to guess on my own. 

 

last month i did a Dutch urine test and despite being on the progesterone cream it showed low progesterone and low estrogen.  i'm 42 and it said my levels were below menopausal levels.....  i'm terrified of the acne getting worse but i've also read that topical progesterone cream can get stored in fat and you can develop toxic levels even though its showing as low in saliva or urine.  if you read the symptoms of toxic levels of progesterone - they are about the same as low levels of progesterone....... .... this is all so confusing but the depth of this wave is so terrifying i want to get out of it.  its much worse than anything i've experienced in the preceding 3 months of withdrawal hell.....

 

any thoughts on what to do if you were already on it a long time and not someone who tried to add it in after already being in withdrawal??

[[SS...]]

thought others might find this interesting.  there is a part 2 at the bottom of this article that links to a lot more information

 

https://www.drlam.com/blog/serious-progesterone-side-effects-and-brittle-adrenals-part-1/30858/

 

[[jo...]]

I want to stop my hrt, 2 pumps of gel and 2 x 100mg capsules of utrogestan otherwise known as Prometrium.

I take 23mgs valium per day and thankfully prescribed and supervised by a psychiatrist who is able to give me lower dose pills as I go down.

 

I can't taper the progesterone capsules and just want to stop.

 

I read bits of this thread which scared me and couldn't read on as I came across this

 

"Neuroactive steroids, e.g., progesterone and its active metabolite allopregnanolone, are positive modulators of the GABAA receptor and are cross tolerant with benzodiazepines.[27] The active metabolite of progesterone has been found to enhance the binding of benzodiazepines to the benzodiazepine binding sites on the GABAA receptor.[28] The cross-tolerance between GABAA receptor positive modulators occurs because of the similar mechanism of action and the subunit changes that occur from chronic use from one or more of these compounds in expressed receptor isoforms. Abrupt withdrawal from any of these compounds, e.g., barbiturates, benzodiazepines, alcohol, corticosteroids, neuroactive steroids, and nonbenzodiazepines, precipitate similar withdrawal effects characterized by central nervous system hyper-excitability, resulting in symptoms such as increased seizure susceptibility and anxiety.[29]"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_dependence

 

Given that many women struggle at the end of their cycle and that many women are on much less doses of cream, and that we cannot get cream here in the uk, and that I want to taper the valium, have no choice but to cold turkey these darned Prometrium/utrogestan capsules and do away with the gel, with me being on such a large dose of Prometrium/utrogestan 200mg, if I just stop, am I likely to run into problems?

 

All replies would be appreciated.

Thanks

[[ho...]]

BB’s - Bump

 

I don’t know what to do....I am on Bio’s 100mg of compounded progesterone capsules and an estradiol cream.  I am now terrified to wean off progesterone too.  I’m going to talk to my pharmacist tomorrow. 

 

Marie

[[jo...]]

BB’s - Bump

 

I don’t know what to do....I am on Bio’s 100mg of compounded progesterone capsules and an estradiol cream.  I am now terrified to wean off progesterone too.  I’m going to talk to my pharmacist tomorrow. 

 

Marie

This has been on my mind too.

I take 200mg bio identical progesterone.

I want to come off it safely, however compounding pharmacies are not available here in the UK, nor is progesterone cream, cold turkey only option.

I added you to my buddy list. Pm me, I am keen to see how you get on.

 

 

[[ho...]]

BB’s - Bump

 

I don’t know what to do....I am on Bio’s 100mg of compounded progesterone capsules and an estradiol cream.  I am now terrified to wean off progesterone too.  I’m going to talk to my pharmacist tomorrow. 

 

Marie

This has been on my mind too.

I take 200mg bio identical progesterone.

I want to come off it safely, however compounding pharmacies are not available here in the UK, nor is progesterone cream, cold turkey only option.

I added you to my buddy list. Pm me, I am keen to see how you get on.

 

Hi...I saw you on the other progesterone thread too.  I don’t know how to do a buddy list...LOL.  I am still trying to figure things out.  I will PM you.

 

Marie

[[jo...]]

BB’s - Bump

 

I don’t know what to do....I am on Bio’s 100mg of compounded progesterone capsules and an estradiol cream.  I am now terrified to wean off progesterone too.  I’m going to talk to my pharmacist tomorrow. 

 

Marie

Thank you for the pm.

 

This has been on my mind too.

I take 200mg bio identical progesterone.

I want to come off it safely, however compounding pharmacies are not available here in the UK, nor is progesterone cream, cold turkey only option.

I added you to my buddy list. Pm me, I am keen to see how you get on.

 

Hi...I saw you on the other progesterone thread too.  I don’t know how to do a buddy list...LOL.  I am still trying to figure things out.  I will PM you.

 

Marie

[[Ox...]]

I am giving this a bump. Next month I will turn 45 and I am already experiencing menopausal symptoms. I am using a progesteronecream, very small amounts.  Progesterone has an effect on GABA-A receptors. So there is cross-dependency.

 

Your body produces progesterone naturally, but it does fluctuate. Is this why we, but also women in general feel worse before our period? I guess especially progestins (synthetic progesterone) and large amounts progesterone cause symptoms.

 

Does anyone have any new insights on this? Maybe do some testing before supplementing?

[[jo...]]

Sorry I did not reply to this, I had and still have a lot of stressors, progesterone being one of them. I thought I found a solution, put the capsule in warm olive oil, but it is only sparingly soluble in vegetable fats and you would need ethanol to dissolve it.

[[c0...]]

how are you doing now? im tapering klon and progesterone. Tried coming off progesterone various times and went into full blown benzo withdrawals. I am bed ridden, doing horribly. I have been poking the prog capsule and emptying little out. its so bad

[[Ti...]]

Good God. My neurologist kept trying to put me on progesterone cream while he flooded my brain with any and every GABA receptor stimulating drug he could find, but due to hormone positive breast cancer history my oncologist said no, absolutely not. I am so thankful I never used this stuff. The scary thing is that same doctor is doing HRT now since his opioid/neurology clinic got shut down by the state.

[[jo...]]

how are you doing now? im tapering klon and progesterone. Tried coming off progesterone various times and went into full blown benzo withdrawals. I am bed ridden, doing horribly. I have been poking the prog capsule and emptying little out. its so bad

Sorry to hear you are bed ridden.

That makes me feel so sad for you.

If I have read your signature right, you tapered klonopin far too fast.

I am on white capsules with white fluid in, known as utrogestan or Prometrium in the US.

Which capsules are you on.

It sounds like you are tapering unevenly, this is not a criticism.

How have you tried to taper the progesterone in the past?

What has made you bed ridden? the klonopin or progesterone?

Would you be able to give us more details.

I hope you can feel well enough as soon as possible to get out of bed, as it must be awful.

I stay in bed a lot because of despair over past bad decisions and it saddens me, as I know I could be doing other things.

It must be awful for you to feel so ill you cannot get out of bed.

Hugs