Bioidentical progesterone cream causes withdrawal similar to benzo-

[[Su...]]

Thanks for the info Perseverance..good stuff you got there...I think I'm falling into a few categories as to why my progesterone may be low..sleep still isn't great. In fact, since he increased my Levothyroxine to 50mcg I am now a week late on my period, and am sleeping 4 hrs or less per night for the past 2 weeks..I'm calling him tomorrow because I can't take it anymore.

 

He started me on levo because i had "elevated thyroid antibodies"...along w/ the fact I can't lose weight no matter what I eat (or don't eat) and how much I exercise (at least an hour a day)...he decided to start me on a low dose of levo (25mcg)..6 weeks later he retested me and I had a higher level of antibodies so he increased it to 50mcgs...I feel really good on it, but I think it may be why my insomnia has gotten worse again (I was sleeping awesome)..also why my cycle is off...

 

I hate hormones! 

[[Pe...]]

Yeah Sunny...hormones are tricky business.  It is very difficult to try to balance hormones using exogenous therapies because our bodies run on diurnal patterns which naturally regulate levels throughout the day internally as needed- and pills/creams conversely deliver a constant dose which doesn't always match up to what the body needs at any given moment. This mismatch can even end up creating new sx's.

 

Levothyroxine is used to treat hypothyroidism.  Just so you know- hypothyroidism can happen after benzo discontinuation due to the rebound activation of the HPA Axis, which as with everything else, should normalize over time as hormone levels begin to come back up to pre-benzo levels.

 

This is because CRH in the brain and Cortisol both regulate TSH release- and both are effected by benzo use.  Virtually all hormone production is effected and as you know, this can take a very long time to normalize after WD.

 

I know hormone related sx's can be pretty miserable, I am having my fair share as well.  The weight gain may just be a rebound weight gain from the rebound elevation of Cortisol...many members on this forum have this same complaint.

 

Rico and I were just discussing the thyroid involvement on page 6 of this thread, incase you're interested in reading it.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=44373.50#lastPost

 

[[Pr...]]

Sunster, check out Dr. Michael Lam's research on adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, estrogen dominance, etc. If you email him, he will answer you in hours.

[[Pe...]]

Adding to what Princezz just said-- here is a link to one of DR. Lam's articles on progesterone that I had in my files:

 

http://www.drlam.com/articles/progesterone.asp

 

[[Su...]]

Thanks again for more info..I will read in more detail tomorrow..today I am trying to function on 2 1/2 hrs sleep..not going so well!

 

Perseverance..I know levothyroxine is often prescribed for hypo-thyroid....I'm not technically low..the reason he put me on it is because of the "elevated thyroid antibodies"...I googled it, and read a lot about how this is the right course to take...I understand benzos can cause hormone imbalances, including our thyroids, but could it cause "elevated thyroid antibodies"?

[[Pe...]]

Hey Sunny,

 

You are right, the standard protocol is to treat this with exogenous thyroid hormone...but depending on why you are having inflammation of the thyroid, the exogenous thyroid hormone therapy may only have to be taken for approximately 6-12 months and then tapered to see if thyroid hormone is required permanently.

 

It could be possible that benzos were a factor in this...because they effect the immune system.  Too little cortisol will let the immune system become over-active...and too much cortisol will depress it.  In the first case there could be a possibility of an autoimmune response, and the second case could potentially open the door for virus or bacteria to move in.

 

Have you been screened for Hashimoto’s thyroiditis?  Here is an article which discusses the various causes of thyroid inflammation.

 

http://www.thyroid.org/patients/patient_brochures/thyroiditis.html

 

My guess is that if it were due to benzos, you may be able to taper off the hormone eventually and your antibodies levels will return to normal.

 

If I should come across anything in the medical literature linking benzos to thyroid antibodies I will let you know.

[[Su...]]

Hey Sunny,

 

You are right, the standard protocol is to treat this with exogenous thyroid hormone...but depending on why you are having inflammation of the thyroid, the exogenous thyroid hormone therapy may only have to be taken for approximately 6-12 months and then tapered to see if thyroid hormone is required permanently.

 

It could be possible that benzos were a factor in this...because they effect the immune system.  Too little cortisol will let the immune system become over-active...and too much cortisol will depress it.  In the first case there could be a possibility of an autoimmune response, and the second case could potentially open the door for virus or bacteria to move in.

 

Have you been screened for Hashimoto’s thyroiditis?  Here is an article which discusses the various causes of thyroid inflammation.

 

http://www.thyroid.org/patients/patient_brochures/thyroiditis.html

 

My guess is that if it were due to benzos, you may be able to taper off the hormone eventually and your antibodies levels will return to normal.

 

If I should come across anything in the medical literature linking benzos to thyroid antibodies I will let you know.

 

I'm printing this off and taking it to my doctor...Please do send more info if you find it!

[[su...]]

I've been trying to figure this out  for weeks myself.  I get it that Progesterone withdrawal is like benzo withdrawal because last March a doc that hadn't prescribed my bio hormones missed benzo interdose withdrawa (I didn't recognize that to be the problem then, either...)  and told me my whole problem was due to the hormones and stop them, cold turkey.  At that time I was on such a small dose of estrogen, it was insignificant, really.  However, within a couple days of stopping the Progesterone, I had tremors in hands, internal shaking, insomnia, sobbing, nausea.  Went back to the doc who had prescribed the hormones and she had a fit and started me back on the Progesterone.... and the tremors, internal shaking, etc, went away.

 

Here is where I am stumped.  I have had low progesterone levels all my life...way before benzos.    After I was prescribed Ativan in Jan 2010 for an inner ear problem.....weeks later, that's when I started having real problems.  Anxiety....the doc's solution was to take more Ativan.  Ok...on into summer.  Now panic attacks, agoraphobia and feeling off-balance.  Same deal.  Take more ativan.  Then over Fall 2010...many dose changes in my bioidenticals...estrogen added, progesterone upped.  Estrogen stopped.  Then Spring 2011 went to sublinguals in higher doses of progesterone, estrogen, and testosterone.  Still having symptoms....I thought it was hormone related and did not recognize the benzo problem. Either did 3 docs.  I went in complaining of anxiety problems, tension in face, neck, shoulders.  Feeling like I was walking on springs...sort of off balance, but not true vertigo.  Occasional nausea.  These symptoms waxed and waned throughout the day.  No-one saw the benzo connection.

 

Now, here I am.  A little more than 30 days off the Ativan.  I truly don't know what to do with the Progesterone and the Estrogen at this point, as I am reading posts here that it slows my healing/recovery.  I tried cutting back on them and felt worse.  Progesterone really does feel like a soft benzo to me, too. 

 

The other thing is that I am post menopausal.  I know that after menopause, a woman does continue to make some estrogen.  It's the progesterone that drops the most. 

 

I've read that I shouldn't try to stop the hormones now.  I've also read that it would be OK to do so.

 

I guess my worst symptoms now are the feeling of heavy head, pressure, tension in my head, traps, tingling, and feeling like I'm sort of off-balance when I walk, some D/P, some insomnia, anxiety, although not horrific, but enough to keep me from venturing out to a crowded grocery alone,  and unbelievable flashbacks that have started in the past week of things that happened years and years ago.    I never had any of this until I took Ativan.

 

Anybody?  Thanks.....and best wishes to all of you out there.

[[Pe...]]

Sunnyside,

 

If you have had low Progesterone levels all of your life perhaps it would be best to find out the reason why  before taking medication.  I always feel it is best to know what you are treating before taking meds as sometimes medications can inadvertently make the condition worse.  It is always best to know what you are dealing with to begin with.  Has anyone ever investigated the cause of you low Progesterone?

 

However, if you do decide to taper off Progesterone, I wanted to tell you about my experience early on in WD which may help you with your decision.  I too was on Ativan, albeit for a much longer time that you were.  However, after detox my sx's did not peak until about the 60th day out (2 months).  The next month (3rd month) the sx's held steady, then I finally began to see some positive changes at month 4.

 

You might consider waiting until you begin to notice improvements- and then do a slow wean off the Progesterone.  Or you could try to get through all of the agony now, get it out of the way, by tapering Progesterone now.  Only you know how much you can handle.

 

Since you are so early into your WD you might want to hold off until your body catches up a little.  You can always taper off Progesterone down the road when you are feeling stronger.  According to what I read in one of Jack Hobsons books, the body begins to recover during a benzo taper...so if this is the case I don't see why your body would not begin to recover as your ‘overall dose’ is less now that you are off benzos.

 

Staying on Progesterone could potentially interfere with total recovery because of its effects at the GABAA receptor site…and there is also the fact that tolerance can also happen with Progesterone which in and of itself can cause WD type sx’s.  The bottom line is only you can judge how much you can handle at any given time, so you may want to consider doing this a little farther down the road, and then do it VERY slowly.

 

You are, judging by most peoples experience with benzo WD, in the thickest part of it...so you may want to wait until around month 4 to begin a Progesterone taper.  That's my take on it.

 

[[su...]]

Thanks, Preservence for your response.  I had extensive testing back in the 80's by an Endocrinologist, GYN and Fertility specialist....

 

For now, I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the hormones.....

 

Lots to think about.

 

Appreciate your response.  Everyone here is so supportive/helpful.  Makes a huge difference.  Thanks.

[[do...]]

There are many things which can affect Progesterone levels.  For example, stress can dramatically reduce Progesterone levels.  When we are stressed the body diverts much of our Progesterone to Cortisol production.  The increased need for Cortisol can deplete the Progesterone levels.  As more Progesterone is shunted or sequestered to make Cortisol, less is available to balance off the Estrogen and can cause a condition known as Estrogen Dominance.

 

Another common reason for low Progesterone levels is an anovulatory cycle (a menstrual cycle in which there is no ovulation). Without the ovulation there is no corpus luteum to make additional Progesterone for the cycle.

 

I am so glad to read this! Although i knew this but I am right now need this to be repeated because I had anovulatory cycle and climbing the walls... Panic attacks returned, and it is very difficult to manage them because I have been W/D symptoms-free for a while.

[[ho...]]

I've been trying to figure this out  for weeks myself.  I get it that Progesterone withdrawal is like benzo withdrawal because last March a doc that hadn't prescribed my bio hormones missed benzo interdose withdrawa (I didn't recognize that to be the problem then, either...)  and told me my whole problem was due to the hormones and stop them, cold turkey.  At that time I was on such a small dose of estrogen, it was insignificant, really.  However, within a couple days of stopping the Progesterone, I had tremors in hands, internal shaking, insomnia, sobbing, nausea.  Went back to the doc who had prescribed the hormones and she had a fit and started me back on the Progesterone.... and the tremors, internal shaking, etc, went away.

 

Here is where I am stumped.  I have had low progesterone levels all my life...way before benzos.    After I was prescribed Ativan in Jan 2010 for an inner ear problem.....weeks later, that's when I started having real problems.  Anxiety....the doc's solution was to take more Ativan.  Ok...on into summer.  Now panic attacks, agoraphobia and feeling off-balance.  Same deal.  Take more ativan.  Then over Fall 2010...many dose changes in my bioidenticals...estrogen added, progesterone upped.  Estrogen stopped.  Then Spring 2011 went to sublinguals in higher doses of progesterone, estrogen, and testosterone.  Still having symptoms....I thought it was hormone related and did not recognize the benzo problem. Either did 3 docs.  I went in complaining of anxiety problems, tension in face, neck, shoulders.  Feeling like I was walking on springs...sort of off balance, but not true vertigo.  Occasional nausea.  These symptoms waxed and waned throughout the day.  No-one saw the benzo connection.

 

Now, here I am.  A little more than 30 days off the Ativan.  I truly don't know what to do with the Progesterone and the Estrogen at this point, as I am reading posts here that it slows my healing/recovery.  I tried cutting back on them and felt worse.  Progesterone really does feel like a soft benzo to me, too. 

 

The other thing is that I am post menopausal.  I know that after menopause, a woman does continue to make some estrogen.  It's the progesterone that drops the most. 

 

I've read that I shouldn't try to stop the hormones now.  I've also read that it would be OK to do so.

 

I guess my worst symptoms now are the feeling of heavy head, pressure, tension in my head, traps, tingling, and feeling like I'm sort of off-balance when I walk, some D/P, some insomnia, anxiety, although not horrific, but enough to keep me from venturing out to a crowded grocery alone,  and unbelievable flashbacks that have started in the past week of things that happened years and years ago.    I never had any of this until I took Ativan.

 

Anybody?  Thanks.....and best wishes to all of you out there.

 

Hi Sunnyside...  Just read through this thread as I'm starting my taper off bioidentical hormones. 

What did you decide to do? 

How are you doing?

Thanks.

[[su...]]

Hi Hope, sorry for not seeing this sooner.  For now I'm staying on same dose of bios.  I'm 3 mo. off the Ativan now, and my W/D symptoms are lessening...yea!  How are you doing?

[[ho...]]

Hi Hope, sorry for not seeing this sooner.  For now I'm staying on same dose of bios.  I'm 3 mo. off the Ativan now, and my W/D symptoms are lessening...yea!  How are you doing?

 

Up and down.  Had 5 fairly good days and now this morning is rough. 

 

I'm slowly tapering the BHRT. 

 

Glad to hear you are doing well!!  hope it continues for you.

[[Zu...]]

Yep, I, too was totally bit in the butt by progesterone cream.  I'm 20 months off and have thyroid and hormonal issues and *thought* it might be okay to try progesterone cream.  BAD MOVE.  I stopped at Cycle Day 28 (like normal women are supposed to) and I have spiraled into crazy anxiety, depression, and lots of mind racing...can't control my thinking.

 

UGH...I feel like I just lost 1 year of healing. 

[[ho...]]

My Bio-HRT taper update:  Over the past 4 months I've tapered off the testosterone and am down to 1/4 of the original estrogen dose.  I want to get off the estrogen over the next month and then taper off the progesterone. 

 

Sunnyside and Doublewave -- how are you both doing?

[[Su...]]

Perseverance...I'm still confused about what to do about progesterone..I get that we need to find out "why" we aren't making progesterone..but the problem is, rarely can anyone do anything about "why" they aren't making any...the only answer if you want to feel better is to ADD progesterone. I have researched this topic to death and as far as I can tell, there is nothing we can do that will kick start our bodies into making it...

 

So what does it matter "why"? What if you can't find out "why"?  Are we just supposed to be miserable so as not to take anything that works on our gaba receptor?

 

My benzo withdrawal is over! 2 years last friday and my hormones didn't fix themselves one bit...so I sit here frustrated after giving it 2 years, taking Chasteberry, Maca root,  following The Perfect 10 Diet, Ashwaganda, green drinks, etc. etc. 

 

Any thoughts?

[[pr...]]

hello doublewave,

i am sorry i can't be a source of comfort or support to you about this.

i am brand new still, only at 5 months and still in severe symptoms that making feel a little out of control.

but i saw your posts and since i re-started my so called bioidentical progesterone cream called prometruim made from wild yams, i guess my symptoms have revved up a lot. and i got my period tonight for the first time in a few months.

i had no idea that progesterone works on the same receptor's? nor did i think this bio identical prometrium was that potent, but i guess it is.

i have been feeling so out of the ordinary blue, sad and lifeless. i know some of it was because i started my cycle tonight after some months due to intense withdrawals i guess i was not getting my period.

now i am wondering if i should stop that prometrium?

i was told to take it the 1st-12th of every month. but if it's going to rev up symptoms, i am not so sure right now?

 

i will read the articles you posted and i hope that you can find out what to do as well with either taking or not taking the progesterone.

i would prefer taking a real bio identical from wild yams but i can't find one like that so i was given the prometrium.

prettydaisys

 

[[ih...]]

Pretty Daisy, prometrium IS bioidentical in that it is the same chemical that is produced naturally in your body.  Some other herbal formulations, particularly over the counter creams are not the same & will not attach to the GABA receptors but they won't have any other beneficial effects so there's not much point to them.

 

Why did you start the prometrium in the first place & did it work for you before withdrawals?

[[ih...]]

I have not had any problems at all with my bioidentical HRT in withdrawal, (please don't hate me). I had been on HRT for menopausal sx, about 6 months before withdrawal & have continued to take it successfully throughout & since.

 

I did find an interesting article which found that women with PMS/PMDD develop tolerance to the administration of GABA-A receptor allosteric agonists, (i.e. progesterone & benzos), during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle.  They also found that the adverse mood effects did not occur when unopposed estrogen was administered, only when estrogen & progesterone were used together.

 

Here's the link, if anyone wants to read the article:

http://www.medref.se/pms/backstrom_13.pdf

 

I hope you ladies find a solution, hormonal chaos is no fun on top of withdrawals.

 

 

 

[[pr...]]

ihope,

yes i have been on vivelle dot and prometrium for quite awhile now.

i had stopped the prometrium when i first came home from the detox last 5/3/12.

i just uped the prometrium dose this Oct. 1-Oct 12 and i have noticed my symptoms rev up.

is it from the prometrium?

i haven't had a chance to read the article you posted.

i am still using the vivelle dot twice weekly, only about .75mg. twice weekly and now the prometrium about 200 on the skin and i will use it like my Doc wants me to which is the first 12 days of every month.

if you think it revs up symptoms i may back off it.

thanks, pretty

[[pr...]]

i would like to know what Sunny asked too?

i would eventually like to get off both the vivelle dot and prometrium and hopefully have all my hormones balance out naturally.

how can i jump start that bandwagon?

i hope it can be done.

chinese herbs and tonic? gojibberries? cedar, juniperberries?

[[ih...]]

Hi Pretty, the progesterone could be revving up your symptoms, particularly if you were already having premenstrual tension regularly before all the meds.  It seems that women who have bad PMT, are also more sensitive to both benzos & progesterone.  Vitex Agnes, (aka chasteberry) can be a good herb to promote progesterone if you do decide the progesterone cream is not helping you. I'm sorry, I don't know much about chinese medicine but they do seem to have remedies for most things.

 

It's more likely that your hormones will be more balanced once you are free from withdrawals. Benzos do depress natural hormone production & your cycle has been disrupted so there's a very good chance you will improve significantly.

[[Su...]]

Hi Pretty, the progesterone could be revving up your symptoms, particularly if you were already having premenstrual tension regularly before all the meds.  It seems that women who have bad PMT, are also more sensitive to both benzos & progesterone.  Vitex Agnes, (aka chasteberry) can be a good herb to promote progesterone if you do decide the progesterone cream is not helping you. I'm sorry, I don't know much about chinese medicine but they do seem to have remedies for most things.

 

It's more likely that your hormones will be more balanced once you are free from withdrawals. Benzos do depress natural hormone production & your cycle has been disrupted so there's a very good chance you will improve significantly.

 

 

 

 

I was told this many times, but here I sit at 2 years off, free of benzo w/d and still crazy imbalanced hormones...too little progesterone, too much estrogen..I will be 41 this month...no sign of menopause...but the worse PMS you've ever seen. I've tried Vitex, Ashwaganda, Maca,  nothing has helped it...so what do i do???

[[ih...]]

I'm sorry, Sunny.  Are you dead set against trying progesterone, perhaps you may tolerate it better at 2 years out. Unfortunately, all the healthy living in the world has not been shown to be as effective for these hormonal problems as HRT.