Medical Cannabis and Cannabis CBD Oil Group

[[Ma...]]

Bad,

What are the ingredients of your sleep tonic? Just indica?

[Guest [ba...]]

Yeah, I'm aware that suppositories aren't topical. haha Didn't intend to infer that. I was just listing that as one of my future potential options for administration. Thanks for the reply though. It helps to know that it likely wasn't the oil that made me feel the way that I did/do. I'm beginning to think it is just the lyme rearing its ugly head again. And I appreciate you mentioning the possibility of digestive distress via MCT oil. I was not aware of that side effect. Good to know, given my history of pre-existing digestive issues. I'll keep that in mind.

 

The MCT oil gastric issues are temporary.  Your gut isn't used to seeing large amounts of those particular triglycerides.  Might be smart to start with a small dose.

[[or...]]

Magnolis, I'm not badsocref, but I use an indica sleep tonic. I make it myself. It's a tincture. (I also make Gummi Bears from the tincture). I use a dose of about 30 mg for sleep. I think it's wise to start low and slow -- not 30 mgs. Try 5 or 10 mgs a first to see how you feel. I now take about 30 mgs at night, and it's perfect. But I had to get used to the way a straight indica made me feel (beside sleepy, that is). It's THC after all, and you will feel a bit odd. At least I do. But as I'm in bed listening to music or reading, I don't mind the odd feeling. In fact I look forward to it.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

[[di...]]

Do you guys find that cannabis exacerbates dissociative symptoms that tend to accompany withdrawal? If so, do they diminish with time/tolerance? I dealt with severe depersonalization even prior to withdrawal, so it is one of my worries that ingesting cannabis orally will exacerbate it to the point of intolerability. Though, I suppose I could condition myself to become used to it again, assuming it is having the desired antimicrobial effect on my chronic lyme disease. Though, that would result in a drastic shift in how I approach each and every day, as I have gotten used to minimal disassociation in the past two years. It seems there are no good options right now though. The reason I am so heavily leaning towards cannabis as a treatment, is, it was very effective at keeping the lyme at bay for me via smoking once at night in the past, (I imagine it would be even more effective orally) and I do not want to damage my gut/gaba further with oral antibiotics/antibiotics that heavily interfere with the metabolization of diazepam. I.e. Minocycline/Clarithromycin/Doxycycline/etc... Cannot resume smoking/vaping either for other health reasons.

[Guest [An...]]

Magnolis, I'm not badsocref, but I use an indica sleep tonic. I make it myself. It's a tincture. (I also make Gummi Bears from the tincture). I use a dose of about 30 mg for sleep. I think it's wise to start low and slow -- not 30 mgs. Try 5 or 10 mgs a first to see how you feel. I now take about 30 mgs at night, and it's perfect. But I had to get used to the way a straight indica made me feel (beside sleepy, that is). It's THC after all, and you will feel a bit odd. At least I do. But as I'm in bed listening to music or reading, I don't mind the odd feeling. In fact I look forward to it.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

 

I could live if I ended up having to take 30mg of indica for the next year.

 

5mg got me 5hr sleep last night. Tonight the plan is to hammer 8mg. 5mg did not make me feel euphoric, or anything bad. It literally just felt almost identical to trazadone or nyquil: a very clean sedation.

 

 

I'm thinking of getting a vape pen with indica and take a puff or two when I wake up in the early morning and I can't get back to sleep again. What do you guys think about that?

 

It's so weird that on Mirt at 3.75mg I can barely feel the sedation, but that knocks me out for 7hr straight. I'd just stay on that if my body wouldn't be getting used to it (and also I'm worried about the serotonin effects, etc etc, but not *too* worried at 3.75mg)

[Guest [ba...]]

I used to go out to the garage for a puff at 4 am when I woke up early, but it only put me back to sleep about a third of the time, and it took some time.  I was working at the time, and doing hits 3-4 hours before the job didn't put me in the best place.

[Guest [An...]]

I used to go out to the garage for a puff at 4 am when I woke up early, but it only put me back to sleep about a third of the time, and it took some time.  I was working at the time, and doing hits 3-4 hours before the job didn't put me in the best place.

 

Yeah, for me, this is going to be strictly a medical procedure. Only enough to get sleep, and with the hope that I only need to do this for a month or two before my body is able to sleep on its own.

 

And as per previous post, my plan is to cycle my current 3 options for sleep: Mirt, THC and Supps.

 

I am also somewhat afraid of the supposed GABA effects of some of the Supps, but I also don't want to rely on just 2 methods. If I can do 2 days on THC, 2 days on Mirt, 1 day on supps, I'd still be getting somewhere I think.

[[or...]]

I'm thinking of getting a vape pen with indica and take a puff or two when I wake up in the early morning and I can't get back to sleep again. What do you guys think about that?

 

I think that would be okay, Andros, but just remember that it will take a bit to get out of your system. If you have to leap up and go to work in a couple of hours, I wouldn't do it. Maybe experiment to see if a small puff at 3 or 4 am (whatever time you wake up) will give you the extra sleep you need and still leave you functional. Badsocref had some good points in his post.

 

I've found that my edible (tincture or gummi bear), taken at about 10, makes me sleepy about midnight and then I sleep until 7. It's the best insomnia-killer I've ever found. Oh, I DO have to leap up at 7 and be functional in the morning and it lets me do that. Seven (or more) hours of blissful sleep is way more than I ever got on my taper . . . even with those insomnia drugs.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

 

P.S I don't vape . . . asthma.

 

[Guest [An...]]

I'm thinking of getting a vape pen with indica and take a puff or two when I wake up in the early morning and I can't get back to sleep again. What do you guys think about that?

 

I think that would be okay, Andros, but just remember that it will take a bit to get out of your system. If you have to leap up and go to work in a couple of hours, I wouldn't do it. Maybe experiment to see if a small puff at 3 or 4 am (whatever time you wake up) will give you the extra sleep you need and still leave you functional. Badsocref had some good points in his post.

 

I've found that my edible (tincture or gummi bear), taken at about 10, makes me sleepy about midnight and then I sleep until 7. It's the best insomnia-killer I've ever found. Oh, I DO have to leap up at 7 and be functional in the morning and it lets me do that. Seven (or more) hours of blissful sleep is way more than I ever got on my taper . . . even with those insomnia drugs.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

 

P.S I don't vape . . . asthma.

 

 

Thanks Oregonkatz.

 

I'm using a tincture, and I noticed it hit me pretty much within 30 mins, I went to sleep sedated like I had taken a teaspoon of Nyquil, and woke up 5hr later with no hangover, just needing a few more hours of sleep.

 

So today I'm taking 8mg and see what happens.

 

How long have you guys found you can take an amount before your body builds tolerance and you have to updose?

 

I'm hoping my strategy will allow me to take it for a bit before having to updose, but I'm mentally preparing myself to go up to 30mg if needed.

 

 

[[or...]]

Andros, I went up to 30 mg pretty quickly -- in a couple of months. Lower doses weren't doing what I needed done. I've been at 30 mgs for about a year. I think I'm lucky as I haven't hit tolerance, but I expect to. When I do, I'll take an mj "holiday" after tapering to zero, then chill for a couple of weeks. I read that the w/ds from mj aren't too bad -- headaches and not having the mj do what I take it for, i.e. sleeping. No problem. I have some other things I can use for insomnia before I go back on the mj, which is my preferred sleep aid.

 

And you may not have to go up to 30 mgs or anything near it. That's my "goldilocks" dose.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Katz

[Guest [ba...]]

I also do tinctures (alcohol), and also take a puff or two at bedtime.  The puff helps with sleep onset; the tincture keeps the sleep going.  I started at 10 mg and also went up pretty quickly to 20, 25, 30 then 40 mg (if some is good, more is better??).  I eventually got up around 80 mg (for a 200 pound / 90 kg person) and stayed there for 2-3 years.  Monday, I cut that in half (I just felt it was time to use less). 

 

As katz mentioned, the withdrawal is pretty minor.  I had one really broken night of sleep (vivid dreams and my wife said that I was talking in my sleep).  I slept worse than usual for a couple more nights (4 am wake-ups, but no jolt or terror like in benzo withdrawal).  I had some minor morning headaches and very slight nausea.  Today is day 5 of the reduction.  I slept very well last night and awoke to no headache and so far no nausea (it was super minor anyway).  I'll do another reduction in a few more days.  I want to get it back down to 25-30 mg.

[Guest [An...]]

I also do tinctures (alcohol), and also take a puff or two at bedtime.  The puff helps with sleep onset; the tincture keeps the sleep going.  I started at 10 mg and also went up pretty quickly to 20, 25, 30 then 40 mg (if some is good, more is better??).  I eventually got up around 80 mg (for a 200 pound / 90 kg person) and stayed there for 2-3 years.  Monday, I cut that in half (I just felt it was time to use less). 

 

As katz mentioned, the withdrawal is pretty minor.  I had one really broken night of sleep (vivid dreams and my wife said that I was talking in my sleep).  I slept worse than usual for a couple more nights (4 am wake-ups, but no jolt or terror like in benzo withdrawal).  I had some minor morning headaches and very slight nausea.  Today is day 5 of the reduction.  I slept very well last night and awoke to no headache and so far no nausea (it was super minor anyway).  I'll do another reduction in a few more days.  I want to get it back down to 25-30 mg.

 

 

Well I had a bad night last night.

 

I stupidly went into this thread: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=250728.msg3189255#msg3189255

 

Where someone links to a study that supposedly, THC affects GABA A receptors.

 

I still took the 8mg I was going to take, but the worry did not let me sleep at all, so I got no sleep last night. I definitely got the drowsy effect, but my mind I guess subconsciously was too frazzled to shut down.

 

 

It's so stupid how EVERYTHING that helps, is supposed to be thru GABA A receptors.

 

I'm taking some Mirtazapine tonight and the next couple of days, while I regroup my mind. I'll probably go over this entire thread again.

 

I'd appreciate some advice on this from veterans.

[Guest [ba...]]

Sometimes, I think we get a little too worried about GABAA.  It's impossible to completely avoid foods/agents that affect that system.  Eat an orange - limonene.  Herbal tea - linalool.  Mangos - myrcene.  Apples - terpinoline.  Spices - caryophyllene.  There's GABA in milk.  Smell a flower, have sex, watch a movie, eat a carrot - all of these will affect your gabaergic system to some degree. 

 

The point is - if you look hard enough, you'll find gabaergic agents in nearly everything you eat/drink/smell.  The huge majority will do you no harm.  Yeah, stay away from alcohol - that one's a given for most folks.  But unless you plan on living in a monastery on a diet of white bread and water, you're going to encounter gabaergic compounds. 

[Guest [An...]]

Sometimes, I think we get a little too worried about GABAA.  It's impossible to completely avoid foods/agents that affect that system.  Eat an orange - limonene.  Herbal tea - linalool.  Mangos - myrcene.  Apples - terpinoline.  Spices - caryophyllene.  There's GABA in milk.  Smell a flower, have sex, watch a movie, eat a carrot - all of these will affect your gabaergic system to some degree. 

 

The point is - if you look hard enough, you'll find gabaergic agents in nearly everything you eat/drink/smell.  The huge majority will do you no harm.  Yeah, stay away from alcohol - that one's a given for most folks.  But unless you plan on living in a monastery on a diet of white bread and water, you're going to encounter gabaergic compounds.

 

Thanks man. Yeah that's the way I see it logically. The Benzo effect cannot be the same as any of these other supposed GABA A agonists. No one else gets hooked on oranges, or even Valerian. I think what will help me is to go thru this whole thread a couple of times.

 

I'm also starting to think that my insomnia is no longer Z-Drug induced, but rather it's psychological now. Otherwise how the heck did I get 5hr the night before on 5mg, and got nothing (maybe 1hr in the morning) last night on 8mg, even though I definitely felt the effect was stronger?

 

Also the THC drowsiness feels almost identical to Trazodone, which is a histamine antagonist. It does NOT feel like Zopiclone at all.

 

So I guess I have no choice but to really start doing some serious meditation, or something that helps me control the anxiety.

[[or...]]

I hear you, Andros. Anxiety is the biggest sleep-killer for me. The indica I take chills me out and actually makes me feel a little cheerful as I am sliding into sleep. I'm quite fond of the feeling. It's as though it smooths all the ripples out of my lake. Listening to dreamy new-agey sleep music helps, too. I suppose it's a kind of bedtime meditation. 

 

Best to you,

 

Katz

[Guest [An...]]

I hear you, Andros. Anxiety is the biggest sleep-killer for me. The indica I take chills me out and actually makes me feel a little cheerful as I am sliding into sleep. I'm quite fond of the feeling. It's as though it smooths all the ripples out of my lake. Listening to dreamy new-agey sleep music helps, too. I suppose it's a kind of bedtime meditation. 

 

Best to you,

 

Katz

 

Hmm, I didn't notice any calming effects with mine to be honest. Just a straight up sedation.  I'm debating whether to try the THC at 8mg and do some heavy relaxed breathing until I fall asleep, or take the Mirt, which has always worked to get me 6hr - 7hr.

 

I might do the Mirt for a couple of days to get some rest, and try again with the THC maybe Sunday night.

[[di...]]

The thing with THC is that the more anxious you are about the potential effects, the less likely you are to have a relaxing experience and the greater chance for discomfort.

 

Personally, I think that mirtazapine along with other pharmaceuticals are bad news. I have used it at times when I have been desperate to break the cycle of repeated nights of broken sleep, as one offs at times when I haven't had anything else available that's not so unhealthy.

 

I have a suggestion. Why don't you try cannabis on a daytime when you are feeling relatively clearheaded? I don't mean with the aim of regular daytime use (not that there's much wrong with that IMO) but with the aim of easing yourself in and familiarising with it. I think that's better than trying it in the evening when your head is more likely to be scattered from the day before. Apart from that, it has the potential to alleviate symptoms that you suffer in the daytime and you are more free to pursue whatever distraction takes your fancy. My thought is that if you can control the setting to be as comfortable as possible, physically and mentally, and just approach with curiosity for the effects, you're more likely to have a good experience to start or at least not one that bothers you too much. Tolerance does build but that's not a terrible think if you don't want a head high. In my experience, the head high gets less with daily use but the relaxation and sleep-inducing effects remain. So if it's a little uncomfortable the first day but not so bad that you wouldn't try again, you might find that the next day is a milder and more comfortable experience. Then you might feel better about giving it a try for sleep.

 

Finding your range can be a bit daunting but starting at 5-10mg isn't risky. It may even help with the sleep if you take it in the afternoon. I don't think there's a way to do it without expecting a little discomfort in the adjustment. I believe that it's worth doing the legwork to get used to something that is far more likely to help you in the long-run than a pharmaceutical. Tolerance and dependency are not a big deal in cannabis. Really, it's a good idea to take breaks or lower the dose for a while every couple of months or so (you will find your own rhythm). Experienced and wise cannabis users learn how to keep tolerance and dependency from getting out of control. It comes with the territory but it's no big deal when you get used to it.

[[or...]]

Great advice, diaz. Trying it in the daytime would be very useful for newbie users.

 

 

Katz

[Guest [An...]]

The thing with THC is that the more anxious you are about the potential effects, the less likely you are to have a relaxing experience and the greater chance for discomfort.

 

Personally, I think that mirtazapine along with other pharmaceuticals are bad news. I have used it at times when I have been desperate to break the cycle of repeated nights of broken sleep, as one offs at times when I haven't had anything else available that's not so unhealthy.

 

I have a suggestion. Why don't you try cannabis on a daytime when you are feeling relatively clearheaded? I don't mean with the aim of regular daytime use (not that there's much wrong with that IMO) but with the aim of easing yourself in and familiarising with it. I think that's better than trying it in the evening when your head is more likely to be scattered from the day before. Apart from that, it has the potential to alleviate symptoms that you suffer in the daytime and you are more free to pursue whatever distraction takes your fancy. My thought is that if you can control the setting to be as comfortable as possible, physically and mentally, and just approach with curiosity for the effects, you're more likely to have a good experience to start or at least not one that bothers you too much. Tolerance does build but that's not a terrible think if you don't want a head high. In my experience, the head high gets less with daily use but the relaxation and sleep-inducing effects remain. So if it's a little uncomfortable the first day but not so bad that you wouldn't try again, you might find that the next day is a milder and more comfortable experience. Then you might feel better about giving it a try for sleep.

 

Finding your range can be a bit daunting but starting at 5-10mg isn't risky. It may even help with the sleep if you take it in the afternoon. I don't think there's a way to do it without expecting a little discomfort in the adjustment. I believe that it's worth doing the legwork to get used to something that is far more likely to help you in the long-run than a pharmaceutical. Tolerance and dependency are not a big deal in cannabis. Really, it's a good idea to take breaks or lower the dose for a while every couple of months or so (you will find your own rhythm). Experienced and wise cannabis users learn how to keep tolerance and dependency from getting out of control. It comes with the territory but it's no big deal when you get used to it.

 

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Some key points:

 

1. I understand pharmaceuticals are not really a good idea, but is it better to sleep with one, or don't sleep at all?

 

2. I'm using a very small amount of Mirt, one quarter of a tablet, 3.75mg. I took one last night and was able to get about 7hr sleep. I do wake up a bit drowsy, but that's the price to pay to be able to sleep for the moment.

 

3. I do not have anxiety about the THC. In fact, much less now that I've tried it twice. I have yet to experience any psychoactive effects from it, other than sedation. The first time I took it 2 days ago, 5mg managed to get me 5hr sleep, and it was a much cleaner sleep than I get from Mirt.

 

BUT the day I tried 8mg, that idiot from that other thread that was complaining about your post, posted a link where supposedly THC has a direct effect on GABA A.

 

Yeah, that terrified me that night, and THAT anxiety did not let me sleep, even with 8mg.

 

I'm not sure what to think about the GABA situation. I don't think any of us know even if these supposed natural GABA agonists are hindering our progress.

 

So then the choice, do we sleep with supplements and THC, and possibly hinder progress? Or do we just not sleep and suffer for months, in hopes the body restores the GABA receptors?

 

I tend to think logically that sleep is probably more crucial to healing, even if with some GABA agonists, than NOT sleeping by abstaining. BUT I still have that lingering fear.

 

4. What's strange to me is that I've actually been able to sleep on my own. I had a week in Dec where I slept like normal for approx 5 days straight, but I stupidly had some caffeine in the afternoon that last day, and my insomnia began again. Was that a "window"? or am I actually healed?

 

5. And then comes the question: Does it matter how long one is on the benzo/z-drug? I was on for a month, and most of the people here have been on for years. Was one month enough to cause several months of damage for me?

 

 

 

 

Honestly what would really help me is to hear success stories of people using THC, and supplements that healed them and got them to a point where they can sleep normally. If I could get to a point where I can sleep 5hr on my own consistently, without anything, that would be such a win for me.

 

But for now, the plan is to take another 3.75mg Mirt tonight, so I can get another 6-7hr stint, and Sunday night, try another 8mg THC. I know it works because I fell asleep with 5mg.

 

I'm not sure I want to use this during the day. It makes me very drowsy, like I took a tablespoon of nyquil. That's kind of what you want at night, but next time I try it, I need to make sure my mind is clear from worries, so by force I've been starting to do meditation exercises like the breathing methods, and the muscle relaxing protocols. I'll report back on Monday morning how that went for me.

[[di...]]

I see. It looks like I slightly misread your situation. Sorry about that.

 

1 month is enough to create a lasting disruption. It's not fair but it does happen to some people.

 

I get your dilemma totally. Like I said, I took occasional doses of mirtazapine at times under similar circumstances to what you said. If it's a reliable way of getting some sleep and you really need it now then that seems to be a sensible thing to do. But it's not a good idea to get used to it. It's certainly not a good idea to become dependent because severe insomnia is a brutal withdrawal symptom that can stick around.

 

On the risks of cannabis, in some ways I feel blessed to have been so desperate for relief not just from my symptoms but from a terrible situation that I just went ahead and did it. I was in a truly terrible state of disrepair about 18 months ago when I started to use it more regularly. I was even having some psychotic symptoms so you can see that it really wasn't advisable. When it silence the internal chatter, that was a revelation. I've had breaks but have been a consistent user and sometimes even a heavy user. I couldn't get more than 3-4 hours of broken sleep per night in some months. I slept so much the first few days, which was absolutely amazing. It's the difference between night and day, how much better I am now.

 

Basically, I'm not going to go round guaranteeing that it's fine for everybody but it's relevant to say that it certainly didn't interfere with healing for myself and many others, except perhaps to accelerate it. Whatever the mechanism of action, it is clearly not similar enough to a benzo for that to be the issue because if it were, it wouldn't be possible for anybody to heal. As it is, I notice that healing happens under the cannabis blanket when I take a break to see every few months. Without looking at those particular studies, I would guess that they are commissioned by an anti-cannabis lobby. Possibly distributors of competing drug products. There's so much junk science out there that it doesn't really alarm me to see things that look like they could mean bad news. The vast majority of science is funded by corporations with an agenda. It's a really shady and murky world. A lot of the scientific journals you might find them in aren't really scientific journals with any kind of rigorous standards, they just look that way.

 

8mg isn't that much and if you've tried it a couple of times with no ill effects then I'd be confident there's nothing to worry about. 20mg is a mild-moderate experience for me without a tolerance and I'm not a big person.

[Guest [An...]]

I see. It looks like I slightly misread your situation. Sorry about that.

 

1 month is enough to create a lasting disruption. It's not fair but it does happen to some people.

 

I get your dilemma totally. Like I said, I took occasional doses of mirtazapine at times under similar circumstances to what you said. If it's a reliable way of getting some sleep and you really need it now then that seems to be a sensible thing to do. But it's not a good idea to get used to it. It's certainly not a good idea to become dependent because severe insomnia is a brutal withdrawal symptom that can stick around.

 

On the risks of cannabis, in some ways I feel blessed to have been so desperate for relief not just from my symptoms but from a terrible situation that I just went ahead and did it. I was in a truly terrible state of disrepair about 18 months ago when I started to use it more regularly. I was even having some psychotic symptoms so you can see that it really wasn't advisable. When it silence the internal chatter, that was a revelation. I've had breaks but have been a consistent user and sometimes even a heavy user. I couldn't get more than 3-4 hours of broken sleep per night in some months. I slept so much the first few days, which was absolutely amazing. It's the difference between night and day, how much better I am now.

 

Basically, I'm not going to go round guaranteeing that it's fine for everybody but it's relevant to say that it certainly didn't interfere with healing for myself and many others, except perhaps to accelerate it. Whatever the mechanism of action, it is clearly not similar enough to a benzo for that to be the issue because if it were, it wouldn't be possible for anybody to heal. As it is, I notice that healing happens under the cannabis blanket when I take a break to see every few months. Without looking at those particular studies, I would guess that they are commissioned by an anti-cannabis lobby. Possibly distributors of competing drug products. There's so much junk science out there that it doesn't really alarm me to see things that look like they could mean bad news. The vast majority of science is funded by corporations with an agenda. It's a really shady and murky world. A lot of the scientific journals you might find them in aren't really scientific journals with any kind of rigorous standards, they just look that way.

 

8mg isn't that much and if you've tried it a couple of times with no ill effects then I'd be confident there's nothing to worry about. 20mg is a mild-moderate experience for me without a tolerance and I'm not a big person.

 

 

Thanks man. Believe me, your advice and experiences are a humongous benefit to me, so I hope my previous posts haven't come across too harshly, as it was never my intent.

 

On the issue of Mirtazapine: I took it regularly for approx 1 month. I started it in Nov 12ish. I was off work and was starting to sleep about 4-5 broken hours on my own, no drugs. I thought this meant I was on my way to healing. I started work again, and almost immediately I was unable to sleep. That's when I started Mirt.

It definitely works for me, but the full 15mg is way too powerful. I found that 3.75mg was just sedating enough to give me 6 - 7hr of sleep.

 

It stopped working Jan 14th, but I didn't want to updose, for exactly the same reasons you mention (would suck to suffer yet another bout of insomnia because of this drug). I started using supplements to sleep for 2 weeks. It took a few: Valerian, Chamomille, Theanine, Holy Basil, Lemon Balm. But I got a full 7hr sleep the first time I did this, and no hangover effect. I consistently got less results as the days passed, and 13 days later, I tried the 3.75 Mirt again, and bam, it worked just as well as it original had the first time I used it.  When I went off it, the only side effect I got was a headache for the next 3 days.

 

So *hopefully* I do not experience anything worse than that, AND it seems that my body recovers relatively quickly from that low dose. That's why for at least the moment, I am not too worried about using it.

 

On the issue of supplements: Again, the whole GABA A issue. It seems that almost all supps that are supposed to help you sleep are GABA A agonists. And well, the biggest problem is that we don't know why Benzos cause WD issues. And we don't know if GABA A supplements work like benzos, or via other GABA A mechanisms that don't interfere with benzo healing.

 

Based on a lot of anecdotal reports, here on this board, on Youtube, and other sources, it seems that many of us have successfully used supplements to sleep and to heal, and healing has in fact, occured, even if the herbs were GABA agonists. But the fear still lingers.

 

On the issue of THC: So far for me, it seems Indica heavy strains cause straight up sedation. It does not feel like GABA A sedation. It feels like Histamine Antagonist sedation. But if you have healed successfully by using it, as have many others on this very thread, then I will continue to use it for as long as I have to.

 

On the issue of biased studies, OMG I have not considered this angle at all!!! Every study I have read says that Zopiclone might induce a few days of rebound insomnia. Yeah, my ass. I'm 3 months out, and still not able to sleep on my own. I have a feeling my brain is healed enough to sleep on its own when there's zero stress around, but a bit of stress messes with me. You are so right about that. There is no doubt in my mind studies are "coaxed" into giving the results the pharmaceutical industry wants, that is, to discourage people from using them, and instead using the pharmaceutical substances.

 

So I don't know. What do you think of my strategy, which I will place as follows:

 

2 days on Mirt, 2 days on THC, 2 days on supps - assess sleep, if supps allowed me to sleep, try a day or 2 of nothing. If no sleep, again 2 days of Mirt, 2 days THC, 2 days Supps.

 

I'm already starting to practice meditation techniques to help me relax before bedtime (I have notice a small difference if I do breathing exercises for 30min in bed, I'm slowly adding muscle relaxing protocols as well).

 

In the end, I feel it is better to sleep than not sleep. I imagine during sleep is when the brain heals the most. What do you think?

[[di...]]

I'm not sure I like experiments like that. When you chop and change every day, it disrupts the normal functioning of your nervous system, which casts doubt that you can discover anything meaningful. If you're going to experiment, it's best to adjust one thing and leave it a while so that you can assess the immediate effects along with the after effects and also allow your system to settle down again before trying something else.

 

The reason I would encourage people who are curious to try cannabis/CBD/hemp and encourage people who are desperate to research it, is that it seems to be an adaptogen. That means that it promotes homeostasis or balance in the body which is what encourages a feeling of subjective wellness (not just the high, just feeling better cos your body is functioning better) as well as promoting healing. Weed is complicated and difficult to talk about largely because we've all got different bodies and different maladies so it's bound to hit everybody slightly differently. That's why I'm trying to keep the discussion at this higher level (pardon the pun). For those it works for, the right strain at the right dose can be revolutionary. If you're able to tolerate cannabis but it's not currently working for sleep, then it seems to me to be a matter of trying to adjust to correct that. The way you might adjust is to change the dose amount, change the times when you dose, change the strain, change the method of ingestion. For example, a dry herb vaporizer hits almost immediately. My pattern has been to awaken after 4-5 hours of sleep and be wide awake and the vaporizer helps me get back to sleep. It's not going to work with an edible cos it takes too long to take effect.

 

Sorry if I'm not really answering your question. Basically, I'm encouraging you to forget trying to balance your system out by taking this, then that, etc and instead narrow your focus to getting the right cannabis "plan" for you and let the weed keep the balance for you. The biggest drawback (overwhelming amount of choice, difficulty narrowing down what's best for you) is actually what makes it so great. It means there are a wider variety of solutions so that in time, you can narrow on something that is a better fit for you. And you can change things just slightly when your body gets too used to it. When you get two strains that you like, you can compare them (THC  content, cannabinoid profile, terpene profile, indica/sativa) to find what they have in common which means you have a good chance of finding something else you like too.

 

This isn't advice as such, more of a comment: I think some people could do with getting high as shit and nothing bad happening. It's possible to be too bold with cannabis for sure but most people here aren't going to have that problem.

[Guest [An...]]

I'm not sure I like experiments like that. When you chop and change every day, it disrupts the normal functioning of your nervous system, which casts doubt that you can discover anything meaningful. If you're going to experiment, it's best to adjust one thing and leave it a while so that you can assess the immediate effects along with the after effects and also allow your system to settle down again before trying something else.

 

The reason I would encourage people who are curious to try cannabis/CBD/hemp and encourage people who are desperate to research it, is that it seems to be an adaptogen. That means that it promotes homeostasis or balance in the body which is what encourages a feeling of subjective wellness (not just the high, just feeling better cos your body is functioning better) as well as promoting healing. Weed is complicated and difficult to talk about largely because we've all got different bodies and different maladies so it's bound to hit everybody slightly differently. That's why I'm trying to keep the discussion at this higher level (pardon the pun). For those it works for, the right strain at the right dose can be revolutionary. If you're able to tolerate cannabis but it's not currently working for sleep, then it seems to me to be a matter of trying to adjust to correct that. The way you might adjust is to change the dose amount, change the times when you dose, change the strain, change the method of ingestion. For example, a dry herb vaporizer hits almost immediately. My pattern has been to awaken after 4-5 hours of sleep and be wide awake and the vaporizer helps me get back to sleep. It's not going to work with an edible cos it takes too long to take effect.

 

Sorry if I'm not really answering your question. Basically, I'm encouraging you to forget trying to balance your system out by taking this, then that, etc and instead narrow your focus to getting the right cannabis "plan" for you and let the weed keep the balance for you. The biggest drawback (overwhelming amount of choice, difficulty narrowing down what's best for you) is actually what makes it so great. It means there are a wider variety of solutions so that in time, you can narrow on something that is a better fit for you. And you can change things just slightly when your body gets too used to it. When you get two strains that you like, you can compare them (THC  content, cannabinoid profile, terpene profile, indica/sativa) to find what they have in common which means you have a good chance of finding something else you like too.

 

This isn't advice as such, more of a comment: I think some people could do with getting high as shit and nothing bad happening. It's possible to be too bold with cannabis for sure but most people here aren't going to have that problem.

 

Hmm, yes, I am worried about the constant changes. I know the cannabis works because I did sleep with it the first time. I can try just doing the cannabis for a week, and see how that goes for me. I think that second day was a one off, and when I try 8mg tonight, I think I will be able to sleep no problem. I plan on continuing my meditation exercises, which seem to be helping a little bit to relax me, hopefully enough for the THC to get me under, like the first time.

 

I have no qualms about being on it long term. My current strain is a Death Bubba tincture that's 70% Indica, 30% Sativa.

 

What's your opinion on vaping pens? I found one that's 90% Indica, 10% Sativa. Sounds like a perfect strain to take a puff and go back to sleep. However, how do you know how many mg of THC you are getting in a puff?

[Guest [ba...]]

There's no way to accurately know how much THC you get from a puff.  You only end up absorbing a small amount of what you inhale.

 

I found vape pens to be pretty harsh on my lungs (versus flower), so largely stopped using them.

[Guest [An...]]

There's no way to accurately know how much THC you get from a puff.  You only end up absorbing a small amount of what you inhale.

 

I found vape pens to be pretty harsh on my lungs (versus flower), so largely stopped using them.

 

Funny timing. I *just* took a 7mg dose of my Indica tincture. I find it takes about 45min to start working, enough time to get a showed and go to bed. I spent the whole day today reading this very thread from top to bottom.

 

Damn I am so excited, I will definitely continue with this and drop the Mirtazapine completely, and being a short Zop user, I may be healed enough within a month to give sleeping on my own a shot.

 

Crappy about the vape pens and your lungs. I really wanted to try one, just to see if it helped get me back to sleep quickly if I didn't get at least 6hr.

 

I may still give it a shot. What I have right now is 70% Indica 30% Sativa. I've found some vapes that are 90% Indica. That may knock me out quicker.

 

This has been an incredible thread. I am barely half way, but amped at how many of you are having success with this. Will definitely report progress with this stuff.