The December 2015-February 2016 Jump Club

[[kr...]]

gia i know its sounds too simple but i notice a huge difference now that im a better water drinker and a day goes by where i dont get enough i can feel it. Keep doing stretches everyday. I do it for 30 min atleast and then a few mins through the day, i mean like every chance i get. i dont know if you have the tight muscles too but if so, nip it in the bud cause mine really bound up on me bad

[[an...]]

I had a lot of stabbing pains too but they are gone now thank god! I got several in the arm that I just used to get a LOT of blood tests taken from. It was like the stabbing was in the exact same place that the needle went in. So scary. Then I had some in my stomach, breast, leg and left shoulder. All gone for a few weeks now.

 

I like to think about symptoms like this... If there was really something wrong it would be here every day, not just show up for a few seconds and then leave. This is how I know they are w/d symptoms and not something more serious.

 

Hope that helps a little!

[[...]]

gia i know its sounds too simple but i notice a huge difference now that im a better water drinker and a day goes by where i dont get enough i can feel it.YES I WILL START DOING THIS. I WAS DRINKING MORE WATER EARLIER> WILL SATART AGAIN. Keep doing stretches everyday. WILL DO THIS. I do it for 30 min atleast and then a few mins through the day, i mean like every chance i get. i dont know if you have the tight muscles I popped my neck tonight. The muscles are tight there. So scary. too but if so, nip it in the bud cause mine really bound up on me bad

[[...]]

I had a lot of stabbing pains too but they are gone now thank god! I got several in the arm that I just used to get a LOT of blood tests taken from. It was like the stabbing was in the exact same place that the needle went in. So scary. Then I had some in my stomach, Yep. I had them there as well!! breast, leg and left shoulder. All gone for a few weeks now.

 

I like to think about symptoms like this... If there was really something wrong it would be here every day, not just show up for a few seconds and then leave. This is how I know they are w/d symptoms and not something more serious. Yea, i know it's all withdrawal. It's just NASTY though!!!

Thanks!!

Hope that helps a little!

[[...]]

Written by Sofa! Good for keeping track!!

 

Hey Buddies,

 

My angel and mentor through this withdrawal mess is someone who survived benzo withdrawal herself, supported and cared for her husband during his withdrawal, and has observed and supported hundreds of people on BB through this process, all of whom have healed and are out living lives of complete rebirth and utter bliss.  They have all healed.  She has read thousands of posts and followed hundreds of journeys and, as a third party observer, she has concluded there are four distinct phases to this withdrawal process.  I thought it might be interesting to some people (me) to try and figure out where we are in our journey and maybe how much longer we have to do "time" before we're released from our temporary prison.  I also think it may give some people (me) hope that we are progressing and this will, one day, come to an end.  Maybe these phases don't ring true for your withdrawal experience.  Tapering versus cold turkey would likely make our journeys different for that reason alone.  I hope lots of people chime in with their experiences through withdrawal, as the collection of more anecdotal evidence helps all of us.

 

PHASE ONE

This is what we commonly refer to as the Acute Phase, which commences once you jump off the medication.  It is marked by a severe onslaught of unrelenting symptoms that make us suffer non-stop 24/7.  If you tapered and went through tolerance withdrawal, perhaps the shock and horror of this phase is a smoother transition.  For others, it may be the same hell we all go through in Acute, whether we tapered or not.  Over time, we all even out and catch up with each other.

 

PHASE TWO

This phase is, unfortunately, not much easier than Phase One, but is marked by symptoms "morphing" in nature, becoming intermittent, decreasing in intensity and frequency, and even disappearing altogether.  New symptoms may even pop in and out periodically.  Some people start detecting the Windows and Waves pattern beginning.  Others may start seeing relief in the late afternoon and evening.  In this phase, you can pretty easily identify your "core" bugger symptoms versus the auxiliary ones, kind of like a circle within a circle of your close "friends" versus your "acquaintances."  Even if you experience windows, the waves crash down on you for no apparent reason too.  It's still a very hellish phase, to say the least, but it IS progress.

 

PHASE THREE

This phase is better than One and Two because it is more situational and predictable.  It is the Sensitivity Phase.  You might never have noticed you reacted to things earlier in withdrawal, mostly because you were dealing with horrific symptoms all the time and didn't make the sensitivity connection.  How could you?  You were suffering ALL THE TIME.  Now that you are further along in your healing and notice a definite dampening down of symptoms, you'll recognize a big difference when you get upticks and flare ups.  For some people, their sensitivity reaction will come the following day in the form of a wave and they will pull out of it in a matter of hours. This delayed wave reaction and short duration is evidence that your system has healed a LOT.  Others might get hit with a wave that lasts a few days or weeks.  It probably depends on what caused the sensitivity reaction.  Here are just a few things that may or may not cause a sensitivity wave: 

 

1.  You eat something that doesn't agree with you, or contains preservatives or too much sugar.

2.  Caffeine, alcohol, weed.

3.  Missing meals which makes your blood sugar drop.

4.  Too much strenuous exercise, activity or over-stimulation.

5.  Stressful life circumstances.

6.  Antibiotics.

7.  Drugs and supplements.

8.  Chemicals in cleaning and personal products.

 

These are just a few of the sensitivity triggers that may or may not cause a wave.  I'm sure the buddies on this forum could name many others and I HOPE THEY DO, so the rest of us can keep our antennas up.  Bottom line:  These are situational upticks and waves that are not random and come out of nowhere.  You are further along in the healing process.  You'll bounce back and keep moving forward, avoiding the things that trigger your waves.

 

PHASE FOUR

This is the Recovery Phase.  Almost all of the debilitating symptoms that kept you dysfunctional are gone.  The remaining one or two symptoms are more annoyances than anything.  Your systems are still healing, so you need to walk gently into re-entry.  You also need to keep living the healthy lifestyle you've acquired throughout your withdrawal journey.  You will feel better and better each day because your systems are continually healing.  You will KNOW your suffering is over, but you need to keep your antennas up and abstain from your previous vices for another year.

 

So that's it in a very big nutshell.  I'd love to hear feedback from other buddies on whether or not these phases strike a familiar chord, or really don't seem to apply.

 

My own journey has mirrored these phases so far.  I seem to be in Phase Three.

 

Where are all of you in your journey so far?

 

Sofa

[[pe...]]

Hey all...

 

Gia, thanks for the Sofa breakdown.  I think it's true that in the first stages one's misery is so general it's hard to pinpoint or pay attention to those triggers that may stimulate a bad spell.  I mean I know I need to start paying attention to those more situational things but right now I can't

 

Though like Kris, I think it was, I simply cannot watch anti-cigarette commercials.  They depress the crap out of me since I smoked for 40 years.  In fact, way to many adds seem to me to focus on drugs for aging people or salves and such to keep people young.  As if being old means also that one grows uglier and uglier.  All of that stuff is stress or anxiety producing.

 

I think Kris correct in suggesting that free floating anxiety wants to attach itself to something.  A bruise maybe or a pimple.  Anything will do.  This withdrawal thing is just made for hypochondria.  First an excess of anxiety, then strange sensations (stabbing pains).  The anxiety attaches to the stabbing pain and magnifies it into a fearsome thing.

 

Hey, Hockeylife.  Good to hear from you.  And, Bejeste, hope you are hanging in there.

[[bj...]]

Hey!

Here I am.

This day started terrible. Despite this we went to my mother's 80th birthday. During the day I got better and better, and when we left, the window was wide open. According to you Gia, I must be in phase two. I wonder if this window will be there tomorrow. If so, I shall join my wife and go to a place where our dog meets it's brothers and sisters.

[[...]]

Hey!

Here I am.

This day started terrible. Despite this we went to my mother's 80th birthday. During the day I got better and better, and when we left, the window was wide open. According to you Gia, I must be in phase two. I wonder if this window will be there tomorrow. If so, I shall join my wife and go to a place where our dog meets it's brothers and sisters.

 

Not my writing Bets! Thanks to Sofa! Gald you made it to your mom's 80's! Must have been so nice to have been there. And I hope you'll be able to go to the... dog park tomorrow?

[[bj...]]

We went to the dog meeting. We had to go home after one hour. I have never been this depressed in my life. I can't stand this anymore. I wonder if I have to be hospitalized now, and get drugged down.

Or is it just phase 4 (Gia) that is here?

[[pe...]]

Hey all:

 

Bejeste: glad you made it to your mother's birthday.  Sorry you are so down today.  I too think about hospitalization.  But what would they do for me? Just more pernicious meds I expect.

 

Depression is a real bummer.  I have been diagnosed over the years as having dysthymia (chronic low grade depression) by three psychiatrists.  So maybe they are right.

 

In the middle of this withdrawal thing, it's hard for me to know which end is up.  This morning I was completely crushed.  Overwhelmed by anxiety or is depressing settling in?

 

Still on an up note, I think I may be in Sofa's phase two.  Things do even out in the late afternoon and evening.  Not as much anxiety, lots of fatigue.  But better.

 

Ang Sounds to me like you are making all the right moves in EMDR.  You will get out of it all that you can get out of it.  Though it's true.  It's really, really hard to describe the craziness of withdrawal or C/T to someone who has not experienced it.  That's one reason I joined this site.  I figured I could write "crushing anxiety in the morning" and people would know what I meant.

 

Have a good Sunday.  All

[[bj...]]

Yes, pensioner1,

I agree. No more medicines. I've just got to live through this day, and hope that tomorrow will be better. Today is a "grunting and moaning" day. I have had them before.

If I get more medicines now, I feel that this long suffering has been i vain. So we just have to live with this mental pain till it goes away. It is cruel, but I don't think I have any alternatives.

Let's hope, both you and I, that tomorrow will be a better day!

[[an...]]

I know that my own depression comes from lack of in person social relationships.

 

You guys know I study psychology and have heard so many theories it's ridiculous.

 

What is sad is that if you go into the hospital it's about 90% likely that they will give you meds. Those meds are only slightly showing results that they work above placebo and not by much. They also do not study long term effects of any medication for what happens if you take it farther out than 6 months. I'm not making any of that up. I can provide citations if you like.

 

Many cultures handle depression differently than western culture. Some ask "the spirit of depression has visited you. Ask it what it needs." Others look at it as a broken social relationship thing.

 

 

Google dr. Kelly brogan to read her holostic psychiatry views. She has a book too.

 

Upbeat always suggests reading dr. David Burns book called "Mind over mood."

 

My point here is that I have decided to not put my trust in western biomedicine anymore. Humans have been dealing with depression (or not if it is only a product of capitalism) for

Millennia. They never had a "Prozac deficiency" in their brains like the doctors tell us today.

 

There are other ways to heal depression and anything else for that matter.

 

But... I want to be clear, if your life is at risk or you are suicidal absolutely seek treatment. I am only Speaking of the depression we are getting from this w/d.

 

I am not giving anyone medical advice I am speaking about the way I have chosen to view my depression.

[[pe...]]

Bejeste...I agree NO MORE MEDS. 

 

So you grunt and moan also.  Some mornings especially I groan every time I stand up or sit down or bend over.

 

Some of that is aging.  But not all of it.  The muscle cramps are bad this morning.

 

So I moan and groan.  We will moan and groan our way though this!

 

Hi Ang

 

Thanks for depression thoughts.  I too have many of them and theories too.  That's what I did 20 years of talking therapy for, and it did help.  But these are unusual circumstances and stuff is coming back.  I think one simply does not get over certain things.  One just has to learn from them and learn how to live with them (I am thinking here of basic family issue problems).

 

Have you read about how they sold prozac to Japan, by telling them that a certain kind of sadness (celebrated in their literature as a character trait) was actually "depression."  That they could cure by taking prozac!  The things done for money.  Eh?

[[an...]]

Yes they do it more countries than Japan!

 

It's disgusting to me!!!

[[bj...]]

Ang,

Your sentence: I know that my own depression comes from lack of in person social relationships.

This is how it is for me now. I have isolated myself for a year. But my friends have not left me. I just don't manage to be with them,  because I suffer all the time. All my interests have disappeared. I've got nothing to talk about but my misery.

I play music, but tonight I could not have done it. This is too painful.

But I really hope that this is a w/d thing, because I don't manage to read books and start a new way of living at the moment.

And the fact that I don't have a job to go to in the daytime anymore frightens me. But I'm too sick to work. So I just have to hope that a window will follow this tragic situation.

[[li...]]

Yea!  Thanks for starting this group.  It's great to find others in the same stage of recovery.  I jumped off Klonopin on Jan 30.  Honestly,  I think I am doing better than most others at three months off.  My acute stage seems to have passed.  Anxiety seems to be my biggest issue right now.  I look forward to the day when I can wake up without my heart racing, and feeling panicked.  Oh, and being able to RELAX and just BE....... What are you looking forward to?  Please share

 

Is that light at the end of the tunnel?

[[Ho...]]

Geez. This is unreal. My OCD and health anxiety is so bad. Can't move from the couch. Can't stop my head from worrying about EVERYTHING. I had hints of OCD before benzos but don't remember this hypochondria being this bad. Should I go to the doctor for all these fears? Do I need other meds for the OCD? This completely sucks. Just wanna live my life. I pray everyone gets better soon.

[[an...]]

livestrong- happy to hear it! Welcome to the thread!

 

Hockeylife- ocd/health anxiety is a w/d symptom. I have it too BIG TIME. I don't want to give you any "medical advice" so I'll just tell you what I am doing...

 

I am staying away from doctors because their job is to diagnoses and treat. If I told them 1/2 of what is going on in my head, they would either admit me or give me meds and meds is how I got in this position. When I get a health fear, I ask myself if it is constant or intermittent. If constant then yes I MIGHT need to go get checked out. If intermittent, probably temporary or yet another w/d symptom (Like the nerve pain I have in my foot and shoulder and back). It will fade like the rest of the symptoms.

 

I read this over and over (from a person who counsels benzo survivors and is one herself): http://recovery-road.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Unwanted-Thoughts.pdf

 

I ask a family member who I've explained all this to if my medical problem is something I need to get checked out.

 

I have gotten blood tests but it was for a yearly check up. I freaked out when some of them were elevated and even though the doctor told me over and over and over that it wasn't a problem, I still worry. I will get them checked again but its like 90% of me knows I'm FINE but 10% doesn't believe me and its hard to talk myself into believing it. Luckily my fear of doctors keeps me away from them.

 

If you need reassurance it might help to go to the doctor. Just be very very very very careful what they prescribe you because that's their job- to prescribe meds and order tests.

 

You are not alone.

[[Ho...]]

Ang. Mine is so simular to yours. Here's an example. I have this extreme fear of cancer. I have this little bb type bump under my tongue right under my gum line. It's been there every since I can remember. Years. Even though I know it's been there and I'm sure it's a gland or something. I still want to get it checked out. Can't stop thinking the worst about it. I am crazy.

[[an...]]

well I guess you have 2 choices- tell your mind to STFU or go to the doctor/dentist to get it looked at.

 

Dr. Google and Nurse WebMD make this crap 1000000 times harder.

 

I'm practicing my STFU skills but I know it is super hard. It seems mine will be super bad about 1 issue for 3 days then it finds another body part to worry about. I've struggled with worrying about seizures and strokes to now worrying about pulling muscle off my bone or rabhdo and nerve damage. I keep getting shooting pain in my left breast and am sure it's breast cancer. I keep thinking oh well, I'm not going to do chemo so I guess I better just let it kill me. Like 80% knows I don't have breast cancer but that 20% seems to be so convincing. We can't win.

 

It's like what my therapist said... we don't feel safe, so the mind sends it out to the body to find a real reason to be having so much fear. Think of it like this. The tongue is a concrete physical reason to be afraid, the fear in our minds is less concrete. So the mind shoots it out to the body to have an excuse.

 

It makes sense and I just keep reassuring myself that it's fear and it's NOT REAL. We all heal!

[[Ho...]]

I like your reasoning. In my case. STFU has not worked. I need that guarantee. I hate it.

[[kr...]]

I have a window opening finally this weekend! Its been rough esp pain

Ang i totally agree w you on the drs and meds...prozac deficiency! lol! and worrying...my blood was good but slightly elevated white count which i imagined the worst. im going to look up those two books you mentioned

hockeylife - i have ocd but wd magnifies it - its awful. it was useful in college though

bjesti i m sorry about your depression. can you zero in on it? early on mine was lack of social life but also putting my own needs as an artist on the shelf always behind what others expected of me. I never really got depressed before klonopin. klon made me think that certain things were depressing me but im sure its the brain wanting to attach something to wd depression, i mean ive thought about selling this lake house cause it reminded me of mom n dad being sick, and all kinds of ideas. i think all i need to do is just start painting again

Hello livestrong i cant wait to work and waterski again and time w friends being normal

i want to learn more about strains of cannibus for my pain and sleep!

[[Er...]]

livestrong Welcome to the club!

 

All,  I'm on week two of a wave.  Not nearly as bad as the original waves so I'm very thankful for that.  And THANK GOODNESS that the health anxiety has only been a very minor part of this.  It makes the waves so much easier to take.  Other than the constant tinnitus and cog fog, this wave has brought back the 4am adrenalin rushes and morning physical anxiety symptoms, worse cog fog, and more muscle ticks. In a weird twist, my libido seems to be up though which is a good thing!

 

This morning was probably the worst adrenaline surge I've had in a long time. And it was at 4:03am, right on time.  The internal buzzing and heat was in full force.  It's the first one I've had that was not only physical, but had a small mental component to it.  I heard some noises so briefly thought someone was in our back yard but I quickly tried to squash those thoughts but they kept returning.  It was fear which I have not had from these before.  Eventually I finally fell back asleep.  I did have a bad dinner of actual fried foods at the in-laws so I'm thinking that might have had something to do with it.  I believe I'm starting to see a pattern of having these 4am surges after a night of not eating the healthiest foods.  I generally grill chicken or fish for dinner so will see if a pattern emerges.

 

Like I mentioned above,  the waves are much more subdued that they used to be so I'm still heading down the right path at least.  I just thought I was out of the woods a few weeks ago so that's demoralizing 

[[li...]]

Kris1967,

I live in California, and have a medical license for cannabis, just to make that clear.  My GI surgeon recommended cannabis, for my ongoing  Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and pain, when I wanted to stop taking opiates.    I do not smoke, because of asthma (but there are many herbal strains that work great for pain & insomnia.)  During the day,  I use a vaporizer, and high CBD cannabis oil.    I am highly functional , and it doesn't leave me locked on the couch.    It has helped me eliminate prescription opiates, and benzos.    I do not abuse it, and feel that if used for medical purposes, it can be a very effective medicine.  It's a shame that so people do not have access to it legally.   

 

 

[[bj...]]

Kris,

This sentence:bjesti i m sorry about your depression. can you zero in on it?

I'm Norwegian, and don't understand what you mean...

Anyway, my depression is about having lost, at the moment, most of what life was before.

But today I'm much better, so this rollercoaster is heavy stuff to live in.

Tomorrow I shall meet a new psychiatrist. Hmmmm...