Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ma...]]

Hi all,

 

I’m really scared    I’ve been holding 10 days and feeling progressively worse, with mainly mental symptoms.  Has anyone had this happen before?  I thought by now there would at least be some relief...  Just need something to get better.

 

Sorry for being obtuse, but are you on the Long Hold thread? I remember Valley saying it took him months before he felt better. It was the same for me. Now that I'm more stable, I can do shorter holds. But if I had to, I would do a long one again, for sure.

 

Gardie (Trying out a new nickname gifted to me by Cant who thought I needed something more girlie.)

 

That is so Cant, I like it.  Gardie

[[ga...]]

Hi to all, I am finding myself in the same place with holding.  No relief and getting worse. I started tapering 5% weekly two weeks ago. I would like to try microtapering.  I have a compounded liquid. Is it hard to do with a syringe? I find they are difficult to read.  Depression is unbearable. I have to get off this stuff. Love to all, Esperanza

 

Sorry you're so unwell. 5% per week is a fast taper. I started out fast like that and crashed. Then I tried micro tapering. It didn't help. My long hold helped. Now I can micro taper again.

 

Builder also has a good point. If you dose-correct quickly you may stabilize faster. I've never tried it, so I can't give any personal account of it working for me. I think there's an up-dosing thread somewhere, though.

 

Gardie

[[Un...]]

Hi all,

 

I’m really scared    I’ve been holding 10 days and feeling progressively worse, with mainly mental symptoms.  Has anyone had this happen before?  I thought by now there would at least be some relief...  Just need something to get better.

 

Sorry for being obtuse, but are you on the Long Hold thread? I remember Valley saying it took him months before he felt better. It was the same for me. Now that I'm more stable, I can do shorter holds. But if I had to, I would do a long one again, for sure.

 

Gardie (Trying out a new nickname gifted to me by Cant who thought I needed something more girlie.)

 

Hi Gardie, (Love that, and of course Cant came up with it, that sweetheart)

 

Please don't be sorry for anything.  It's not a bad recommendation.  I'm all about learning from others and their experiences so I thank you.  Really appreciate you sharing with us and will probably be heading over to the LHSG.  I'm so unable to process what is even happening in my brain right now.  This just crept up on me, I thought it was going well. 

[[ga...]]

Hi all,

 

I’m really scared    I’ve been holding 10 days and feeling progressively worse, with mainly mental symptoms.  Has anyone had this happen before?  I thought by now there would at least be some relief...  Just need something to get better.

 

Sorry for being obtuse, but are you on the Long Hold thread? I remember Valley saying it took him months before he felt better. It was the same for me. Now that I'm more stable, I can do shorter holds. But if I had to, I would do a long one again, for sure.

 

Gardie (Trying out a new nickname gifted to me by Cant who thought I needed something more girlie.)

 

That is so Cant, I like it.  Gardie

 

Isn't it, though? I think he said he first thought my original avatar (acorn squash lined up on my deck) was a caterpillar. And Gard does sound very "guy." So I am doing an extreme makeover. But only on Benzo Buddies. Real me is not going to turn girlie. I'd rather stick my hands in the dirt than in a manicure soak.

 

Gardie

[[ga...]]

Hi all,

 

I’m really scared    I’ve been holding 10 days and feeling progressively worse, with mainly mental symptoms.  Has anyone had this happen before?  I thought by now there would at least be some relief...  Just need something to get better.

 

Sorry for being obtuse, but are you on the Long Hold thread? I remember Valley saying it took him months before he felt better. It was the same for me. Now that I'm more stable, I can do shorter holds. But if I had to, I would do a long one again, for sure.

 

Gardie (Trying out a new nickname gifted to me by Cant who thought I needed something more girlie.)

 

Hi Gardie, (Love that, and of course Cant came up with it, that sweetheart)

 

Please don't be sorry for anything.  It's not a bad recommendation.  I'm all about learning from others and their experiences so I thank you.  Really appreciate you sharing with us and will probably be heading over to the LHSG.  I'm so unable to process what is even happening in my brain right now.  This just crept up on me, I thought it was going well.

 

I can so relate to that. I was going along thinking all was well when I got clobbered. I hope things turn around for you soon.

 

 

[[bu...]]

 

 

Thanks for your feedback, builder.  So, 10 days should be a significant enough amount of time to feel improvements?

 

I've kept a journal so I can look back at the dose I felt ok at, but just hate to go backwards.  Once one updoses to where they felt ok at, then:

 

1.  How long should that dose be held?

2.  Start the taper back down again and hope for better results?

 

But, your NOT really going backwards.  If you are non-functional and unable to taper further, you haven't "arrived" yet.

 

If you updose, normalize, then you can begin tapering again.  As long as you hold (and suffer) you ae NOT making any progress.

 

That makes sense, but when we normalize, do we titrate a lower amount since apparently the amount we were titrating caused the problem, or take more and longer holds?

 

Yes!  If you develop unmanageable sxs, you are tapering too fast.  The logical thing is 1)  go back to a "comfortable" dose and hold 'til you feel OK, then 2) restart your taper.

 

This is why I disagree with "long hold concept.  Not only are you miserable, you can't move forward and make any progress.  It just prolongs the time it takes you to get off of your benzo.

[[ga...]]

 

 

Thanks for your feedback, builder.  So, 10 days should be a significant enough amount of time to feel improvements?

 

I've kept a journal so I can look back at the dose I felt ok at, but just hate to go backwards.  Once one updoses to where they felt ok at, then:

 

1.  How long should that dose be held?

2.  Start the taper back down again and hope for better results?

 

But, your NOT really going backwards.  If you are non-functional and unable to taper further, you haven't "arrived" yet.

 

If you updose, normalize, then you can begin tapering again.  As long as you hold (and suffer) you ae NOT making any progress.

 

That makes sense, but when we normalize, do we titrate a lower amount since apparently the amount we were titrating caused the problem, or take more and longer holds?

 

Yes!  If you develop unmanageable sxs, you are tapering too fast.  The logical thing is 1)  go back to a "comfortable" dose and hold 'til you feel OK, then 2) restart your taper.

 

This is why I disagree with "long hold concept.  Not only are you miserable, you can't move forward and make any progress.  It just prolongs the time it takes you to get off of your benzo.

 

Yes, if it works, updosing could definitely mean a shorter hold. But when I held, updosing was not an option. The Xanax was not working for me. I seemed to metabolize it super-fast. But when I crossed to Librium I became crushingly depressed. Taking more would have made me worse, not better. Tapering down to a lower dose made the depression more bearable. Then I held until my anxiety-related symptoms and neuropathy let up, too.

 

Another reason some people have done long holds is they have been destabilized by poly-drugging changes. Sometimes doctors throw so many drugs at a person it's impossible to tell what's causing the problem. If a person just stops making changes, their brain gets needed predictability and can stabilize. This is what my primary doctor told me. "The brain likes predictability," were his words. And then he told me to stop making changes and hold until I stabilized.

 

And, one more reason to hold. Life circumstances are sometimes overwhelming. I've seen buddies get thrown off-balance by a move, a new job, a death in the family. Holding has helped them get through these highly stressful events. I hold during the holidays. The holidays are stressful anyway, and I've had some traumatic things happen during the holidays in the past, so I just hold, usually through November and December.

[[Ca...]]

Mornink Guys...

 

I dose corrected with my cut and hold several times with great success... -Both rescue and updose..

Due to cut size, a one off rescue dose could help me get through my first wave..

I do agree with builder, for many cases, and think that dose correcting can often end up being faster in the long run...

BUT, for some the need for stability from the long hold is more benificial than change, -any change.. This can include other medications also...

At this point it starts to get very individual...

It is my belief that we actually heal faster with minimal SX than when suffering from reducing to quickly to get med free and then heal..

Sorry, very distracted today, -hope this makes sense...

 

***

Oh, I see Gardie has done a much better job of replying about this complex subject..

 

[[ga...]]

Mornink Guys...

 

I dose corrected with my cut and hold several times with great success... -Both rescue and updose..

Due to cut size, a one off rescue dose could help me get through my first wave..

I do agree with builder, for many cases, and think that dose correcting can often end up being faster in the long run...

BUT, for some the need for stability from the long hold is more benificial than change, -any change.. This can include other medications also...

At this point it starts to get very individual...

It is my belief that we actually heal faster with minimal SX than when suffering from reducing to quickly to get med free and then heal..

Sorry, very distracted today, -hope this makes sense...

 

***

Oh, I see Gardie has done a much better job of replying about this complex subject..

 

 

 

Hey, Cant! Evenink! (Is that how you say it?)

 

I'm very glad to have someone with experience in dose-correcting chime in.   I've never done it so I'm always hedging when I talk about it.

 

Also, thanks for helping me remember to use the term dose-correcting. Somehow it sounds less like failure than up-dosing which, unfortunately, has some kind of stigma attached to it.

 

Gardie

[[Un...]]

Mornink Guys...

 

I dose corrected with my cut and hold several times with great success... -Both rescue and updose..

Due to cut size, a one off rescue dose could help me get through my first wave..

I do agree with builder, for many cases, and think that dose correcting can often end up being faster in the long run...

BUT, for some the need for stability from the long hold is more benificial than change, -any change.. This can include other medications also...

At this point it starts to get very individual...

It is my belief that we actually heal faster with minimal SX than when suffering from reducing to quickly to get med free and then heal..

Sorry, very distracted today, -hope this makes sense...

 

***

Oh, I see Gardie has done a much better job of replying about this complex subject..

 

Hi Cant   Thank you for sharing about this.  It's still all so confusing to me, so it really helps to hear from those of you who have done different things.  I'm a new student of this mess, even though the months are going by.  I do agree about healing faster with minimal sxs.  For now, I'm going to keep on holding and see if there is improvement.  If not, then updose may just be the next step.  You're always so helpful, thank you sweet Cant

 

[[Un...]]

 

 

Thanks for your feedback, builder.  So, 10 days should be a significant enough amount of time to feel improvements?

 

I've kept a journal so I can look back at the dose I felt ok at, but just hate to go backwards.  Once one updoses to where they felt ok at, then:

 

1.  How long should that dose be held?

2.  Start the taper back down again and hope for better results?

 

But, your NOT really going backwards.  If you are non-functional and unable to taper further, you haven't "arrived" yet.

 

If you updose, normalize, then you can begin tapering again.  As long as you hold (and suffer) you ae NOT making any progress.

 

That makes sense, but when we normalize, do we titrate a lower amount since apparently the amount we were titrating caused the problem, or take more and longer holds?

 

Yes!  If you develop unmanageable sxs, you are tapering too fast.  The logical thing is 1)  go back to a "comfortable" dose and hold 'til you feel OK, then 2) restart your taper.

 

This is why I disagree with "long hold concept.  Not only are you miserable, you can't move forward and make any progress.  It just prolongs the time it takes you to get off of your benzo.

 

Oh, Ok....  This is sinking in now.  Thank you builder.  I definitely want the way forward with the least amount of sxs.  Thanks for clarifying about all of it.

[[Sc...]]

Cant, you just really made me smile. I just really saw your sweet, funny, goofy, smart personality. I feel guilty & don’t want to jinx anything, but maybe my lexapro is starting to work a little bit. Hm...

Good night all, SC...sc nope nothings ng can be done to improve my improved name sc

[[ga...]]

Cant, you just really made me smile. I just really saw your sweet, funny, goofy, smart personality. I feel guilty & don’t want to jinx anything, but maybe my lexapro is starting to work a little bit. Hm...

Good night all, SC...sc nope nothings ng can be done to improve my improved name sc

 

You shouldn't change your name anyway, Scardie, because now our names almost rhyme! Besides, cats are called scardie-cats, and I love cats.

 

Gardie

 

[[Sc...]]

Lol Gardie! x

[[Ul...]]

 

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong thread/group, but this is the only thread I go to. Anyway, I learned last year that fluoroquinolones are a horrible class of antibiotics that react terribly with benzos. What about doxycycline? Does anyone know (or know where I can ask)? If doxy is bad, then what's a good antibiotic that does NOT react with benzos?

 

Thanks, all!

 

Jeff

[[bu...]]

 

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong thread/group, but this is the only thread I go to. Anyway, I learned last year that fluoroquinolones are a horrible class of antibiotics that react terribly with benzos. What about doxycycline? Does anyone know (or know where I can ask)? If doxy is bad, then what's a good antibiotic that does NOT react with benzos?

 

Thanks, all!

 

Jeff

 

For clarification, quinolones do NOT "react" with benzos.  Quinolones interfere the benzo binding at the receptor site, so they receptors are unable to respond to the benzo.  The quinolone "blocks" the benzo from attaching to the receptor.  If you are currently taking a benzo, it can cause a CT-like response.

 

No other class of antibiotics have s similar action.

[[ga...]]

 

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong thread/group, but this is the only thread I go to. Anyway, I learned last year that fluoroquinolones are a horrible class of antibiotics that react terribly with benzos. What about doxycycline? Does anyone know (or know where I can ask)? If doxy is bad, then what's a good antibiotic that does NOT react with benzos?

 

Thanks, all!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, I think I've seen fluoroquinolones and other antibiotics discussed on the Other Medications board. I think if you just search that board for antibiotics you'll find lots of helpful info. My recollection is that fluoroquinolones are rarely used, and most others are perfectly fine. But that's my benzo memory talking!

 

Gardie

[[Ul...]]

 

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong thread/group, but this is the only thread I go to. Anyway, I learned last year that fluoroquinolones are a horrible class of antibiotics that react terribly with benzos. What about doxycycline? Does anyone know (or know where I can ask)? If doxy is bad, then what's a good antibiotic that does NOT react with benzos?

 

Thanks, all!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, I think I've seen fluoroquinolones and other antibiotics discussed on the Other Medications board. I think if you just search that board for antibiotics you'll find lots of helpful info. My recollection is that fluoroquinolones are rarely used, and most others are perfectly fine. But that's my benzo memory talking!

 

Gardie

 

Okie doke!! 

[[Ul...]]

 

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong thread/group, but this is the only thread I go to. Anyway, I learned last year that fluoroquinolones are a horrible class of antibiotics that react terribly with benzos. What about doxycycline? Does anyone know (or know where I can ask)? If doxy is bad, then what's a good antibiotic that does NOT react with benzos?

 

Thanks, all!

 

Jeff

 

For clarification, quinolones do NOT "react" with benzos.  Quinolones interfere the benzo binding at the receptor site, so they receptors are unable to respond to the benzo.  The quinolone "blocks" the benzo from attaching to the receptor.  If you are currently taking a benzo, it can cause a CT-like response.

 

No other class of antibiotics have s similar action.

 

I looked at the other site Gard mentioned, and I saw where someone named Huraqan (??) said the same thing about doxy. It's all really confusing.

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

 

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong thread/group, but this is the only thread I go to. Anyway, I learned last year that fluoroquinolones are a horrible class of antibiotics that react terribly with benzos. What about doxycycline? Does anyone know (or know where I can ask)? If doxy is bad, then what's a good antibiotic that does NOT react with benzos?

 

Thanks, all!

 

Jeff

 

For clarification, quinolones do NOT "react" with benzos.  Quinolones interfere the benzo binding at the receptor site, so they receptors are unable to respond to the benzo.  The quinolone "blocks" the benzo from attaching to the receptor.  If you are currently taking a benzo, it can cause a CT-like response.

 

No other class of antibiotics have s similar action.

 

I looked at the other site Gard mentioned, and I saw where someone named Huraqan (??) said the same thing about doxy. It's all really confusing.

 

Jeff

 

Maybe he was confusing it with difloxacin, which is a quinolone antibiotic.

 

BTW, I think Begood has taken doxy without any problems. She has a blog, if you want to look her up.

[[...]]

Well folks, the day is here.

 

Last night I took the final dose in my Klonopin Taper.

 

This 125 day 0.001 mg microtaper has been overall pretty tolerable.  I know how bad it can get - just read my signature from when I first cut too fast from 0.5 mg.

 

I think the last 7 days of this taper were getting a little bit harder BUT I also wonder if other areas of my health are improving as the total amount of Klonopin reduced.

 

I suppose I will learn much in the next few weeks.

[[Ma...]]

Well folks, the day is here.

 

Last night I took the final dose in my Klonopin Taper.

 

This 125 day 0.001 mg microtaper has been overall pretty tolerable.  I know how bad it can get - just read my signature from when I first cut too fast from 0.5 mg.

 

I think the last 7 days of this taper were getting a little bit harder BUT I also wonder if other areas of my health are improving as the total amount of Klonopin reduced.

 

I suppose I will learn much in the next few weeks.

 

OH Good Luck Bob, hope it goes so smoothly for you.  We are all sending you the most healing thoughts and ❤️.  Keep us posted, I love your posts, they are so informative 

[[Su...]]

Well folks, the day is here.

 

Last night I took the final dose in my Klonopin Taper.

 

This 125 day 0.001 mg microtaper has been overall pretty tolerable.  I know how bad it can get - just read my signature from when I first cut too fast from 0.5 mg.

 

I think the last 7 days of this taper were getting a little bit harder BUT I also wonder if other areas of my health are improving as the total amount of Klonopin reduced.

 

I suppose I will learn much in the next few weeks.

Wow Bob,

So thrilled for you and excited to see what happens in the ensuing months.  you really were committed to the taper --while staying at a rate that was sustainable. ... inspiring..... .001mg a day... some say we don't notice that amount but many of us do!

Congrats!

SS

[[Sc...]]

Well folks, the day is here.

 

Last night I took the final dose in my Klonopin Taper.

 

This 125 day 0.001 mg microtaper has been overall pretty tolerable.  I know how bad it can get - just read my signature from when I first cut too fast from 0.5 mg.

 

I think the last 7 days of this taper were getting a little bit harder BUT I also wonder if other areas of my health are improving as the total amount of Klonopin reduced.

 

I suppose I will learn much in the next few weeks.

Yes best wishes for all to go smoothly & congrats. I agree your posts are always informative.

[[Pe...]]

Well folks, the day is here.

 

Last night I took the final dose in my Klonopin Taper.

 

This 125 day 0.001 mg microtaper has been overall pretty tolerable.  I know how bad it can get - just read my signature from when I first cut too fast from 0.5 mg.

 

I think the last 7 days of this taper were getting a little bit harder BUT I also wonder if other areas of my health are improving as the total amount of Klonopin reduced.

 

I suppose I will learn much in the next few weeks.

 

Congratulations!!