Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Hey Guys- After a long hold of four months, I have made a cut.  I'm not doing anything daily, but I think this would be considered a micro-cut.  I've gone now, from .125mg of clonazepam to .120mg.  I had a doctor's appointment yesterday, mostly to get a prescription for cannabis and I had the fun time to explain to my doctor how exactly can I be taking .120mg a day.  She had actually never heard of liquid titration before.  It must sound strange to her, but at least she didn't roll her eyes or anything like that.  She is supportive of whatever can help me get off of benzos.

 

I'm so glad to hear you have a supportive doctor. The one who started my taper had never heard of liquid titration either, but he was an outside-the-box kind of guy. Only thing he asked was did I have a graduated cylinder. I did, so we were good to go.

 

 

[[Su...]]

 

Wrong like

Wrong link?  I still really liked the article as a way of understanding drug companies and research and .... I'd been shown it by a few folks on FB.  It is making the rounds!

SS

 

Yes, I also thought it was very enlightening. I have been wondering for awhile why they eliminated the grief exception in the DSM5. Interesting idea this author postulates. And I do think he makes a very good point that we need to consider the context when we diagnose and treat mental health problems. A lot of what is normal human reaction extreme stress (such as the sudden loss of a loved one) has been pathologized by the mental health profession.

 

:thumbsup:

SS

[[Ul...]]

 

Builder, are saying that most people only spend several weeks in a taper?? Fill me in on what I'm missing.

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

 

Yes.  Most folks are able to discontinue benzos with only limited difficulties.  BBs are outliers.

 

From what I've read so far, no one has done a study on this, but most people do taper off with minimal symptoms over the course of a few months.

 

I personally know one woman who tapered over the course of 6 months with no trouble. I also know a woman who attempted a taper of Xanax briefly, and, when she had severe symptoms, was told that proved the needed the drug. She believes this and says she will be on Xanax forever.

 

One article I read made a guess, estimating that perhaps 30% of benzo users have significant trouble withdrawing.

 

BIC, which seems to be one of the most reliable sources of benzodiazepine withdrawal information on the web, says that 1 in 6 are disabled by benzodiazepine withdrawal. https://www.benzoinfo.com/

 

I'm surprised! I read something in an article a few weeks ago that said 70-80% of people that have been on them for 6 months or longer have a lot of difficulty getting off the things. I'm approaching year 24, so I guess I don't fit that mold. This is a bitch of an experience!! Onwards we all go...

 

Hugs to you!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

We seem to read the same articles!  And I've seen a few articles that suggest it is length of time on the medicine is the most predictive indicator of issues with coming off these meds.  And it's common knowledge that drug companies cover up some of the articles that talk about the hazards of long term usage of this and other psych meds.  Not being a conspiracy theorist here, just a realist.  And I'm not anti psych med!  Don't take my Mirt away until this is done.    There's a great article in the guardian that is floating around FB these days on drug companies and their research into depression and anxiety.  (Wish my computer skills were up to posting the link here)

SS

SS

 

Yeh, I'm right there with ya. I'm positive that I also read that "length of time on benzo" is directly related to taper problems. Hmmm....so, I guess the fact that I've been on a high dose of k for almost 24 years is significant!! What a mess. Well, all we can do is be positive and put one foot in front of the other. No time to complain now! Keep up the fight

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

 

 

I'm surprised! I read something in an article a few weeks ago that said 70-80% of people that have been on them for 6 months or longer have a lot of difficulty getting off the things. I'm approaching year 24, so I guess I don't fit that mold. This is a bitch of an experience!! Onwards we all go...

 

Hugs to you!

 

Jeff

 

I would be very interested in the source of that article.  Do you have a link?

 

Me too, Builder. Actually, my wife found that article. She's a college professor and is constantly in the literature. I'll ask her tonight if she can track down the article. My functional med doc helps a lot of people get off benzos. I talked to him earlier this week, and he said that his understanding was right in line with "70-80% of people having difficulty when on the med for 6 months or more". I'll post the link if I/we come up with anything.

 

Thanks for the constant help!

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

 

 

I'm surprised! I read something in an article a few weeks ago that said 70-80% of people that have been on them for 6 months or longer have a lot of difficulty getting off the things. I'm approaching year 24, so I guess I don't fit that mold. This is a bitch of an experience!! Onwards we all go...

 

Hugs to you!

 

Jeff

 

I would be very interested in the source of that article.  Do you have a link?

 

Me too, Builder. Actually, my wife found that article. She's a college professor and is constantly in the literature. I'll ask her tonight if she can track down the article. My functional med doc helps a lot of people get off benzos. I talked to him earlier this week, and he said that his understanding was right in line with "70-80% of people having difficulty when on the med for 6 months or more". I'll post the link if I/we come up with anything.

 

Thanks for the constant help!

 

Jeff

 

OK, I just read all the other posts above ( I was a couple days behind since I haven't checked here on BB's for a short while). Looks like my link isn't even needed. I'll still ask my wife if she knows of the source. I deduce this: Somewhere between 0 and 100% of the people tapering off benzos will have some kick-ass withdrawal symptoms.   I love you guys!!

 

Jeff

 

P.S. Geaux Saints

[[bu...]]

 

OK, I just read all the other posts above ( I was a couple days behind since I haven't checked here on BB's for a short while). Looks like my link isn't even needed. I'll still ask my wife if she knows of the source. I deduce this: Somewhere between 0 and 100% of the people tapering off benzos will have some kick-ass withdrawal symptoms.   I love you guys!!

 

Jeff

 

P.S. Geaux Saints

 

Yes, your link IS still needed.  Nothing posted above in any way substantiates the "70%" figure.

 

And note that I'm not implying that number is wrong.  If there is credible data to support it (or any other number)  I'd like to see it.

 

I don't attach much credibility to random statements and "statistics" that get thrown around on message boards.

[[ga...]]

Thanks for sharing your doctor's observations Jeff. I think it's the doctors who are actually tapering a wide variety of people who have the best ideas about the numbers.

[[Su...]]

 

 

I'm surprised! I read something in an article a few weeks ago that said 70-80% of people that have been on them for 6 months or longer have a lot of difficulty getting off the things. I'm approaching year 24, so I guess I don't fit that mold. This is a bitch of an experience!! Onwards we all go...

 

Hugs to you!

 

Jeff

 

I would be very interested in the source of that article.  Do you have a link?

 

Me too, Builder. Actually, my wife found that article. She's a college professor and is constantly in the literature. I'll ask her tonight if she can track down the article. My functional med doc helps a lot of people get off benzos. I talked to him earlier this week, and he said that his understanding was right in line with "70-80% of people having difficulty when on the med for 6 months or more". I'll post the link if I/we come up with anything.

 

Thanks for the constant help!

 

Jeff

 

OK, I just read all the other posts above ( I was a couple days behind since I haven't checked here on BB's for a short while). Looks like my link isn't even needed. I'll still ask my wife if she knows of the source. I deduce this: Somewhere between 0 and 100% of the people tapering off benzos will have some kick-ass withdrawal symptoms.   I love you guys!!

 

Jeff

 

P.S. Geaux Saints

 

:laugh:

 

[[ga...]]

I'm curious about what kind of syringe everybody uses. I have a 10ml with markings every .2ml. I wish I could find a bigger syringe that still has the markings that close together. My 60ml syringe is marked every 2.5ml, way too far apart.

 

Gard

[[Su...]]

I'm curious about what kind of syringe everybody uses. I have a 10ml with markings every .2ml. I wish I could find a bigger syringe that still has the markings that close together. My 60ml syringe is marked every 2.5ml, way too far apart.

 

Gard

 

I use a 10ml syringe, which has markings every 2ml, and a 1ml syringe that has markings every .2ml.  I know I've adjusted my dilution ratio to make sense of my equipment..

SS

[[ga...]]

I'm curious about what kind of syringe everybody uses. I have a 10ml with markings every .2ml. I wish I could find a bigger syringe that still has the markings that close together. My 60ml syringe is marked every 2.5ml, way too far apart.

 

Gard

 

I use a 10ml syringe, which has markings every 2ml, and a 1ml syringe that has markings every .2ml.  I know I've adjusted my dilution ratio to make sense of my equipment..

SS

 

Thanks, SS. Wouldn't it be nice if there was large syringe with small increments? I sure would like to be able to use just one syringe!

[[Su...]]

I'm curious about what kind of syringe everybody uses. I have a 10ml with markings every .2ml. I wish I could find a bigger syringe that still has the markings that close together. My 60ml syringe is marked every 2.5ml, way too far apart.

 

Gard

 

I use a 10ml syringe, which has markings every 2ml, and a 1ml syringe that has markings every .2ml.  I know I've adjusted my dilution ratio to make sense of my equipment..

SS

 

Thanks, SS. Wouldn't it be nice if there was large syringe with small increments? I sure would like to be able to use just one syringe!

Yes it sure would!  Maybe there's a business as an equipment provider for this journey.....

Thanks Gard!

SS

[[ch...]]

Day 2 of switching to liquified valium and, first night slept badly and this night had nightmares. Had neither of those problems for months. Only switched to liquid because I cannot figure out how to reduce my 0.25 cuts to whatever is half of that cut using 2 mg plll. Dose was 3.5 mg until 2 nights ago. I have scales but I heard one must crush ten, get an average weight, then calculate cut and somehow subtract it from that?

Please help..I would much rather stay with dry cutting if possible

[[Su...]]

Day 2 of switching to liquified valium and, first night slept badly and this night had nightmares. Had neither of those problems for months. Only switched to liquid because I cannot figure out how to reduce my 0.25 cuts to whatever is half of that cut using 2 mg plll. Dose was 3.5 mg until 2 nights ago. I have scales but I heard one must crush ten, get an average weight, then calculate cut and somehow subtract it from that?

Please help..I would much rather stay with dry cutting if possible

 

I know this is contentious, but when I switched to all liquid I had a hard time for a few days.  My pharmacist gave me some detailed explanation as to why the body can metabolize liquid differently. (I don't have citations for that) So I would say don't give up yet, possibly hold until your body gets used to the change.....  Liquid is really great to be able to adjust tiny cuts I find, so I'm glad I have it in the tool kit!

:smitten:

SS

[[ga...]]

Day 2 of switching to liquified valium and, first night slept badly and this night had nightmares. Had neither of those problems for months. Only switched to liquid because I cannot figure out how to reduce my 0.25 cuts to whatever is half of that cut using 2 mg plll. Dose was 3.5 mg until 2 nights ago. I have scales but I heard one must crush ten, get an average weight, then calculate cut and somehow subtract it from that?

Please help..I would much rather stay with dry cutting if possible

 

I agree with SS. I've seen many people take a week or so to adjust to liquid. I suggest just doing the liquid, making no cuts, and giving yourself little more time before you decide what to do next.

 

Sorry, I don't know how to make tiny, daily dry cuts. I don't know if anyone on here does dry cutting, but hopefully they will chime in if they do.

 

Gard

[[Gr...]]

I'm curious about what kind of syringe everybody uses. I have a 10ml with markings every .2ml. I wish I could find a bigger syringe that still has the markings that close together. My 60ml syringe is marked every 2.5ml, way too far apart.

 

Gard

 

I use a 10ml syringe, which has markings every 2ml, and a 1ml syringe that has markings every .2ml.  I know I've adjusted my dilution ratio to make sense of my equipment..

SS

 

Thanks, SS. Wouldn't it be nice if there was large syringe with small increments? I sure would like to be able to use just one syringe!

Yes it sure would!  Maybe there's a business as an equipment provider for this journey.....

Thanks Gard!

SS

 

I think I have the same syringe and I totally agree with you guys about better markings.  I use a 100ml graduated cylinder and a 10ml syringe with .2ml markings.  I measure what I drink in my graduated cylinder using the syringe just to adjust it.  I often feel like I am off by a ml or two. 

[[Su...]]

I'm curious about what kind of syringe everybody uses. I have a 10ml with markings every .2ml. I wish I could find a bigger syringe that still has the markings that close together. My 60ml syringe is marked every 2.5ml, way too far apart.

 

Gard

 

I use a 10ml syringe, which has markings every 2ml, and a 1ml syringe that has markings every .2ml.  I know I've adjusted my dilution ratio to make sense of my equipment..

SS

 

Thanks, SS. Wouldn't it be nice if there was large syringe with small increments? I sure would like to be able to use just one syringe!

Yes it sure would!  Maybe there's a business as an equipment provider for this journey.....

Thanks Gard!

SS

 

I think I have the same syringe and I totally agree with you guys about better markings.  I use a 100ml graduated cylinder and a 10ml syringe with .2ml markings.  I measure what I drink in my graduated cylinder using the syringe just to adjust it.  I often feel like I am off by a ml or two. 

 

Ya I really can't be off by a 1-2 ml.... I'm cutting 3 each day that I cut.  I keep my "juice" in a jar then measure out what I'm taking using the two syringes, squirt them directly into my mouth....  Before I diluted my juice more even a drop difference could put me off for a day or two .... but that's Xanax for ya!  Although I think that K is pretty similar GC? 

SS

[[ga...]]

I'm curious about what kind of syringe everybody uses. I have a 10ml with markings every .2ml. I wish I could find a bigger syringe that still has the markings that close together. My 60ml syringe is marked every 2.5ml, way too far apart.

 

Gard

 

I use a 10ml syringe, which has markings every 2ml, and a 1ml syringe that has markings every .2ml.  I know I've adjusted my dilution ratio to make sense of my equipment..

SS

 

Thanks, SS. Wouldn't it be nice if there was large syringe with small increments? I sure would like to be able to use just one syringe!

Yes it sure would!  Maybe there's a business as an equipment provider for this journey.....

Thanks Gard!

SS

 

I think I have the same syringe and I totally agree with you guys about better markings.  I use a 100ml graduated cylinder and a 10ml syringe with .2ml markings.  I measure what I drink in my graduated cylinder using the syringe just to adjust it.  I often feel like I am off by a ml or two. 

 

I just came to the computer after doing just that to measure my water in my 100ml cylinder and then adjust with my 10ml syringe to get it to the exact line. I'm pretty confident that I am very, very close. I'll bet you are, too.

 

One good thing about daily tapering is even if you're off by a bit each day, overall, you're still heading in the right direction so it will all even out. Using that concept, I might just make my own markings on my 60ml syringe or just eyeball it when I get to pulling more than 10ml.

 

Or maybe start a business making large syringes with tiny increments marked. Anybody want to invest?

 

Gard

 

 

[[ga...]]

 

Ya I really can't be off by a 1-2 ml.... I'm cutting 3 each day that I cut.  I keep my "juice" in a jar then measure out what I'm taking using the two syringes, squirt them directly into my mouth....  Before I diluted my juice more even a drop difference could put me off for a day or two .... but that's Xanax for ya!  Although I think that K is pretty similar GC? 

SS

 

Thumbs up to using a very dilute solution!

[[...]]

HI all , I don't usually post here , but have seem some of the posts about syringes and measuring . I'm using a 1 ml syringe as , when I try a small reduction, which is t much at the moment, I can use a 1 ml syringe with 100 tiny lines on it . For me , each 1 ml = 3% of my total dose , so I can reduce REALLY small amounts . still hits me with a ton of symptoms !

 

Love, MiYu

[[ka...]]

Quick question that has probably been asked a gazillion times before -

 

Current medication  - Roxie 5ml/5mg daizepam

what suspension/solution base  is needed to mix with this in order for me to mix my roxie in a way that will allow me to MT very small daily increments.

Current need - to taper by .01ml weekly, making daily reductions to reach this goal

thx!!!

 

[[ga...]]

HI all , I don't usually post here , but have seem some of the posts about syringes and measuring . I'm using a 1 ml syringe as , when I try a small reduction, which is t much at the moment, I can use a 1 ml syringe with 100 tiny lines on it . For me , each 1 ml = 3% of my total dose , so I can reduce REALLY small amounts . still hits me with a ton of symptoms !

 

Love, MiYu

 

Hi, Miyu! Good to see you. 

 

I'm sorry your taper is still so rough.

 

Oh, my! 100 tiny lines?   I suppose when I get near the end I will need one of those, too. And I will need my daughter's young eyes to read it for me! She will be so thrilled. (Not. )

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Quick question that has probably been asked a gazillion times before -

 

Current medication  - Roxie 5ml/5mg daizepam

what suspension/solution base  is needed to mix with this in order for me to mix my roxie in a way that will allow me to MT very small daily increments.

Current need - to taper by .01ml weekly, making daily reductions to reach this goal

thx!!!

 

Is that the diazepam that comes as a liquid called intensol? I used the Xanax intesol a few years ago. All I did was dilute it with water. It should stay in solution just fine if kept at room temperature.

 

Hopefully builder or a math person will work the numbers for you. I care about you too much to try to do your math!

 

Gard

[[ka...]]

Quick question that has probably been asked a gazillion times before -

 

Current medication  - Roxie 5ml/5mg daizepam

what suspension/solution base  is needed to mix with this in order for me to mix my roxie in a way that will allow me to MT very small daily increments.

Current need - to taper by .01ml weekly, making daily reductions to reach this goal

thx!!!

 

Is that the diazepam that comes as a liquid called intensol? I used the Xanax intesol a few years ago. All I did was dilute it with water. It should stay in solution just fine if kept at room temperature.

 

Hopefully builder or a math person will work the numbers for you. I care about you too much to try to do your math!

 

Gard

Thanks, I'm sure builder will help too. 

[[Va...]]

Quick question that has probably been asked a gazillion times before -

 

Current medication  - Roxie 5ml/5mg daizepam

what suspension/solution base  is needed to mix with this in order for me to mix my roxie in a way that will allow me to MT very small daily increments.

Current need - to taper by .01ml weekly, making daily reductions to reach this goal

thx!!!

 

Is that the diazepam that comes as a liquid called intensol? I used the Xanax intesol a few years ago. All I did was dilute it with water. It should stay in solution just fine if kept at room temperature.

 

Hopefully builder or a math person will work the numbers for you. I care about you too much to try to do your math!

 

Gard

Just water for dilution. Hi gard! —V