Cross-Over to Valium Support Thread

[[ca...]]

can do- Have you noticed that you were able to make bigger cuts to your original benzo after you added in Valium?  I'm trying to decide what size cut to make to my liquid Xanax compound this weekend. Before I introduced Valium, I was making .0025 mg micro cuts and was having a hard time being consistent with that. I haven't made any Xanax cuts since I brought in the Valium, but I'm assuming I don't need to microtaper it anymore?  What was your experience?

Candice,i understand about not wanting to get dependent on the Valium it`s a worry i have myself but will deal with that another day ! I been using a scale and tapering i gram a day off the Klonopin at one gram a day for 10 days then hold and continue the i gram a day taper but am not dropping the Valium ! Bye the way my Doc gave me 50mgs of Valium to take a day but only ever took 45mgs never more as i will have to get off that also right and you may find that once your Xanax get very low it gets harder so go slowwwww!Any other questions just ask i will be more then willing to try and help and i remember long ago i told ya not to be worried about taking the Valium and you were a bit worried so see As far as how much to cut it might be me but confused on how much your starting dose of xanax was and how much valium you were given ? ~CD

[[Ca...]]

Thank you can do!  Yes you were right about the Valium!  Lol

 

My starting dose of Xanax was 1.5 mg total over 2 doses (1 mg and .5 mg). Right now my first dose is now .75 Xanax and second dose is .34 mg Xanax, which is .25 mg pill and .09 mg liquid compound. I'm only going to taper out the compound first, which is only .09 mg Xanax. My total daily Valium dose is 9 mgs. What do you think?  My wish is just to stop taking it, or to halve it making two .0475mg cuts over a month period.

[[ca...]]

Candice, the Golden wisdom on this site is 5-10 % every 2 weeks but being we are on Valium it kinda screws things up. At the start of my taper i was making big cuts but as i got lower the cuts got harder so i guess go for it see how ya feel but is the s- hits the fan go back up get my drift here ? ~CD

[[Ca...]]

Thanks CD, 5% of my total Xanax dose would be .0545 mg.  Maybe I will halve the liquid into two cuts of .045 mg each, cutting every two weeks, holding longer if it's girly time. When you say being on Valium screws things up, in what way do you mean?  I get your drift about going back up if the cuts are too big as I get lower!

[[ca...]]

Thanks CD, 5% of my total Xanax dose would be .0545 mg.  Maybe I will halve the liquid into two cuts of .045 mg each, cutting every two weeks, holding longer if it's girly time. When you say being on Valium screws things up, in what way do you mean?  I get your drift about going back up if the cuts are too big as I get lower!

Candice, what i ment by screw things up is most just taper 5-10 % off thier Benzo without using Valium i did some math and i am down 40% Total Benzo use in almost 8 months that puting the Valium and the Klonopin together so kinda frustrating but it is what it is and glad your feeeling better so just take your time ! ~CD

[[Ca...]]

Thanks so much CD!  Yes- we all have to go our own speed and with our own method.  I'm really learning how to listen to my body.

 

I'm sorry you're frustrated with the pace you're on, but every little bit is still progress.

[[ch...]]

So much for taper, after the earthquake hit in Nepal, I have spent days calling and emailing friends there. 40mg V a day to stay flat, and 1.5-2 mg X at night. This is, as I thought, not going to to be quick or easy. AND I now have the attitude, "Well, I am ALREADY well and truly addicted". 

 

I need a mentor. I just returned from 30 hours of flying......I am sure THAT helped. I lost track of what I was taking to stay sedated on aircraft. 

 

I have another long flight in 3 weeks......

[[Mo...]]

Any advice? Valium c/o is good as I am a long-term benzo user of 39 years, mostly Klonopin with Xanax or Serax for the last many years, but have been on several benzos. Valium works well so far BUT makes me very agitated in the morning and may continue to escalate. I need advice for what to do about "benzo rage" which I have had from other before. That is very tough. I am sure exercise would help but I have been bedridden out of fear and phobic to exercise because I have been sedentary for too long. The Klonopin turned on me and, after many years, started giving me paradoxical effects I.e. putting me in a terror state. I hope Valium stays the course and doesn't turn, but there's this benzo rage; agitation problem from it. Thanks for any help.

[[be...]]

Hi Mariam:

 

This is a post that I have copied and pasted for you on another thread.

 

I just read your latest post and it seems to differ just a bit from the earlier posts that I have read from you. Kpin is obviously hurting, rather than helping you. So I think your first POA is to get off it. Like Bennie said, doing a C/O to valium may be a good option, but you won't know until you try it. For me, it helped tremendously. For others, not so. And you don't want to go back to xanax, I take it, because you said you did not want to go backwards. You really aren't going backwards if you exchange Kpin to Xanax at the same rate. So, 1.5 mg of kpin equals 1.5 mg of xanax. I truly believe that at least part of your problem is that you did a C/T in January. Just because you are on another benzo doesn't mean you won't suffer from that C/T. And switching to this and that didn't help at all. What you really need to do is make a decision what benzo you want to be on and stick with that. You really need to calm your CNS, as I think it is a mess right now. I also think you best option is to do a dry micro taper. I gave you some information about it. Please print it out. I didn't tell you how much you need to cut because I didn't know how much you wanted to cut. That will be up to you, in accordance with the people here who know a lot about your situation and can help you with the math. I can only tell you what they math I did, as obviously I am also on K. I was on .625 mg when I joined here. I told the people here I wanted to cut slowly, .03 mg every two weeks. So I micro tapered and cut .001 grams 10 out of 14 days. At first, it is hit or miss. Then I decided that I didn't need to hold for four days, so I cut back my hold days to 2 out of 14 days. I'll wait a while and then reduce my hold days until I get down to 0 hold days. Hopefully, I will be able to cut every single day. You start out cautious, and then see what happens and maybe you can make a dosage change. So if you agree to a micro taper (I know you tried titration and didn't like it), you have a scale already, same as mine and others here, then you have two options left.

 

One would be to do what Bennie and I suggested. Make a gradual C/O to Valium. I continued to cut my K while I continued to make the C/O, but since you are in bad shape, I would suggest that you hold until the C/O is finished. I was not in bad shape when I made the C/O. The other option you have is going back to xanax. I happen to hate Xanax personally because I took it before with very bad results. Way too much I/D. It made me crazy in between doses. But others have tapered off Xanax with success. That would not be an option for me, but then again, me and K and V get along well. So your choice: Xanax or Valium? And you can micro taper from both of those drugs. But whatever you do, make a decision and stick to a proper schedule. The more changes, the worse you will feel. Humans hate changes, whether they be mental ones, psychical ones, or something like racism. Everybody wants to be the same as the next person. That's why Joni Mitchell calls America a "homogenous rot."

 

What to do about the rage? Simply walk away from any potential argument. If you are spoiling for a fight, then tell that person that you are already feeling rage due to benzos, and please go away and leave me alone until I can get calm myself. I'm sure they would prefer to run for the hills rather than get into a big, useless and hurtful fight that you will regret.

Bets

[[Mo...]]

Benzogirl

Please see my latest post

Thank you

Need your help

 

[[Mo...]]

I am so, so tired of living my life in fear. I have been living a death for way too long. I decided to do the Valium c/o once and for all to get off of 39 years of benzos. Currently I had been taking 1.5 mg. Klonopin a day. I took 1/8 of one of my three daily doses of , 5 every 8 hours away. I switched to 5 mg. V with .25 K at bedtime dose. Been doing that a while. Took only 10 mg. V last night without the K. I skipped one week in the Ashton am going to be taking 7/8 of the .5 K in the morning (has begun turning on me giving me paradoxical effect), a 5 mg. V with a .25 K afternoon and 10 mg. V at night. This is because I don't want to do a week of two .5 K then 10 mg. V at night. I am only skipping a one week phase so as to have less K to deal with.I am deeply afraid of this because I already have more depression setting in. But I MUST stick to SOMETHING even if afraid.I have to tell myself I WILL be uncomfortable and symptomatic but it's part of the healing. Thanks for listening. I am scared. Especially because I have read quite often how people have a particularly hard time as long-term users going from K to V Any words of comfort and advice are appreciated. If I am deep into the switch and get unbearable depression or other symptoms I will have to find a way to ride them out.I have wasted my life especially living in fear.

[[Mo...]]

I am in stage 3 of my c/o to Valium from Klonopin. 39 years of benzos. This morning I had a window and felt Valium was my saving grace.  Now, this evening I am losing my mind. My body's wracked with terror. I am scared.

[[sh...]]

Hi Mozart:

 

I am sorry that you are struggling.  I would like to know how you found a doctor who would be willing to help get off benzos by switching from klonopin to valium.  My doctor won't read the Ashton taper method.  God bless you.

 

Ken

[[Mo...]]

Dearest Ken,

 

I printed out the schedule for getting off of 1.5 Klonopin a day and brought it to him.  He had heard of her, and he even hates her LOL, but he was willing.  Print it out...that one schedule...show it to the doctor.  Tell them you want to try this.  Let me know.

 

Marian

[[Te...]]

Hi everybody,

I hope with my heart that you all  will get better soon,  We need to relax and do the right thing all the time,  we have to eat, sleep well and relax,  Since  4/14 I started to  3 mg Valium,  now 2 weeks after I felt  bad symptoms,  since yesterday,  My mom is in the hospital, she is 85 and bad conditions,  today a had stress  at work.  after I left my office I felt  very bad, I cant explain,  It was a rush, or lack of oxygen in my brain, I was eating an apple and not breathing correctly,  and then I had a "panic attack" ??  or  something? , my mind is thinking that I'm having a blockage or a stroke.  I pulled over and start breathing, then It stop, I went to a parking lot and wait, then again, that sensation of desperation of lack of air or blood in my brain, I just called 911,  and wait,  they arrived in 5 minutes, checked my vitals,  I was fine, blood pressure 139/80  sugar 119.  They asked me If I want to go to the hospital, then I wait and told them that I'm going home.  I got home, but I have tinnitus, and little anxiety,  I didn't eat what I eat every day. and I drank just plain water.   

 

I gained to much weight, I'm 174 lb , I was always 160 lb then drooped to 145 lb.

lately I was having pain only in my left side of my body, sometimes my leg, or my hand, or lungs. 

I didn't go to the doctor since September, I went only to see my Psychiatrist. 

 

I wasn't having any bad symptoms other than pain in my left side, but It was mild.

 

I don't know what to do,  after this my level of hope dropped to the floor.

 

Please advise

 

Tex

 

[[or...]]

Tex I think you'll be okay. The EMTs checked you out so you weren't having a heart attack or a stroke. Sounds like a good old fashioned panic attack to me. Not that they aren't nasty -- they may feel like they're killing you, but they won't. 

 

You made whatever this was stop by breathing and concentrating on your breathing, right? Just do that again when you feel stressed and panicked. Count your breaths -- a big 4 count in and a big 4 count out and keep doing that until the panic stops. Oh, and be sure to pull over if you're driving.

 

Don't lose hope.

[[Te...]]

Katz,

Thank you so much,  I was crying all day at work, your words gave me hope again!! 

I was doing so fine since I c/o to Valium,  yes, It is nasty!!  I hate it, 

other than that I have no sx,  I'm a little chicken,  I'm so scared and hopeless.

 

But now I feel better by your assurance.

 

Thanks

 

Tex

 

         

[[Mo...]]

Tex, I promise you that was a classic panic attack, believe me, I have had PTSD for 40 plus years...I know this well.  Remember, your body cannot and will not stop breathing, even if you were to pass out, your body takes over the breathing mechanism (you won't pass out).  Buy books by Dr. Claire Weeks, they will save you!

Marian

[[Te...]]

Thanks Mozart,

I really appreciated all the support of BB,  I will buy those books, I have some by Louise Hay, It helped me a lot. 

do you think It's the air? , now in Texas is hot and the air is "heavy", we cant breath this  air, we have to have air condition.  In winter I think I felt better,  I'm sorry you had PTSD,  I have PTSD for the first time I had a panic attack, It was horrible.

 

my prozac is helping me I guess,  20 mg every day.  before that I was crying like a baby everyday. I didn't cry in 20 years, I'm 52.

but now everything is possible. 

 

Thank you again

 

Tex

 

 

 

[[Te...]]

Mozart,

One of the steps of Dr.  Claire Weeks is:

 

"Allow time to pass

Panic is caused by a sudden surge of adrenalin. If you can allow, and float with, the bodily

reactions caused by this surge, much of this adrenalin will metabolize and be reabsorbed in

three to five minutes. As soon as this happens, you’ll start to feel better. Panic attacks are time

limited. In most cases, panic will peak and begin to subside within only a few minutes. It is most

likely to pass quickly if you don’t aggravate it by fighting against it or reacting to it with even

more fear (causing “second fear”) by saying scary things to yourself "

 

Is there any test or way to know that It was an adrenalin rush?   

 

Tex

 

[[Mo...]]

Thanks Mozart,

I really appreciated all the support of BB,  I will buy those books, I have some by Louise Hay, It helped me a lot. 

do you think It's the air? , now in Texas is hot and the air is "heavy", we cant breath this  air, we have to have air condition.  In winter I think I felt better,  I'm sorry you had PTSD,  I have PTSD for the first time I had a panic attack, It was horrible.

 

my prozac is helping me I guess,  20 mg every day.  before that I was crying like a baby everyday. I didn't cry in 20 years, I'm 52.

but now everything is possible. 

 

Thank you again

 

PTSD is not something you get once or twice. It is for a lifetime and it is exremely serious. Look it up. Read Dr. Clair Weekes. Much better and more fitting than Hay.

 

Tex

[[Te...]]

Thanks Mozart,

I really appreciated all the support of BB,  I will buy those books, I have some by Louise Hay, It helped me a lot. 

do you think It's the air? , now in Texas is hot and the air is "heavy", we cant breath this  air, we have to have air condition.  In winter I think I felt better,  I'm sorry you had PTSD,  I have PTSD for the first time I had a panic attack, It was horrible.

 

my prozac is helping me I guess,  20 mg every day.  before that I was crying like a baby everyday. I didn't cry in 20 years, I'm 52.

but now everything is possible. 

 

Thank you again

 

PTSD is not something you get once or twice. It is for a lifetime and it is exremely serious. Look it up. Read Dr. Clair Weekes. Much better and more fitting than Hay.

 

Tex

 

 

Mozart,

I'm  a hypochondriac. Hypochondriacs become unduly alarmed about any physical or psychological symptoms I detect, no matter how minor the symptom may be, and I'm  convinced that I have, or I'm  about to be diagnosed with, a serious illness

 

I took care of myself all my life, I never thought that I would be in this situation.  but I should have know, since I'm very afraid to fly.

 

Tex 

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Thank you all. I ended up in utter torture all afternoon and evening. I actually had to meet a friend (he is my endocrinologist so at least I was with a doctor! Lol) because he wanted to go to services at the Temple with me. I am not religious but the Rabbi is retiring soon and he is so beloved. So, through my torture I endured over 3 hours there. It was pure torture. I was a shaking, terrified mess. Not to mention how completely dissociative I am all the time...things appear unreal and I am detached, depersonalization. That is the main reason I started TAKING benzos 39 years ago. I saw my therapist yesterday too...another outing...and he told me I HAVE to get out of bed more or I won't detox or heal as quickly. That is tough because the bed is my only "safe" place and that's why I stay in it.  I remember thinking that Valium is starting to give me hints of benzo rage like I have had with Serax and Dalmane in my very long benzo history. I envy people so much who are short-term users and who are on small amounts. Finally, when I got home it was time for my 10 mg. of Valium as per stage 3 of Ashton. It helped calm me. I keep taking halves of Benadryl three times a day to calm me between my interdose withdrawals, which don't resolve even with my afternoon dose of medication.  I wonder if this is harmful every day. It is considered a "dirty" drug and my mouth stays very dry. I get so bad with all day waves, I have to scream...literally. I feel tortured. I still am not sure this is even FROM benzos or not. I have tolerance w/d but it only started at 38 years on them, before I c/t xanax, and when I left the psych ward last day of December. .I just snapped when I left. . I c/t from oxycodone after 3 years on it, back in August and I c/t from Xanax last October/November until they reinstated it in the hospital in December.  Then I c/t it again third week of January. I had used it for years but my pdoc thought it was ok as I still had Klonopin on board. Makes no sense.

I am so glad you are all here with me. I hope we all have many windows today. Tex, I, too, am a bad hypochondriac and hypervigilant. I couldn't fly for years but with Benadryl and benzo cocktails I could. I may need that the rest of my life for travel...cars too...even if I can ever get off of these.

[[Te...]]

Mozart,

I hope you will be safe and heal very soon, we are waiting for a miracle, I'm one year in this benzo  problem, but seems years.

I want my old life back, even It wasn't perfect.  but I could run and dance and play,  but I stressed out a lot too.  worry for many material things.  but now I know the only treasure we have is health!!.

 

try to take advice from BB forum and make it happen. 

 

The complete heal is what I'm looking for!!!

 

good luck

 

Tex

 

[[Mo...]]

Hello all,

 

Thank you for your words. About my sister's rejection,  There is too long a history of abandonmwnt, disgust on her part, being let down and viciouness. I have tried to forgive numerous times over the years,  but I don't want to. I will have to learn to live with zero family, as the others are all dead. It hurts and is very lonely.

 

I want to ask you all a question, my mentors....please do reply. I saw my pdoc yesterday and he has no qualms about prescribing Valium for my k to v c/o. I just want to make sure, given that I have a head injury and coma history, that I am not in seizure territory. I do not feel like I would have one, just checking. I c/t years of Xanax on January 22,  as per my pdoc...mistake. that is when Hell got worse and from which I have never gotten out (of Hell).

Ashton says you can do the c/o phase from a few days to a week at each stage. Once you are c/o then each drop of v dose is 1 to 2 weeks. I am not stable, never will be during taper and must do it whilst in hell. In quite a fragile, non-resilient place. Shaking, trembly mess of a person who doesn't want to be near people, house and bed bound, light and sound sensitive.

 

I have been a performer all my life, thrived on being with people...this is new for me. Life without benzos after 39 years on them? I can't imagine it. But, after 38 years, they, especially K, turned on me, although not all of them.

 

Part of me wonders why I am doing this and feels I should live out my life on benzos instead of being in such misery. Is it worth it? Time will tell.

 

I think I am safe from seizures, just want your take on that. Thanks all.