Cross-Over to Valium Support Thread

[[eg...]]

Hello!

I am stopping by  to say hello and so you can see my signature. I crossed last July and I'm almost done.

When I crossed the fatigue was crushing but it went away.

 

It has not been easy but it is been a lot better than it was when I was trying to taper klonopin.

 

At 2 mg I am feeling clearheaded and the cortisol issues are gone.

 

It has been fairly easy to cut every week– (I'm not going to list all  the SX that I had going down)  for me the lower I go  the better I feel with the exception of 4 mg. I had to hold there and finally I just cut and then I felt better again.

Today I'm cutting to 1.

If anybody wants more information you can PM me. I so want to encourage anyone doing a V taper!

 

I'm grateful to Heather Ashton and I'm grateful that I found a Doctor who would give me the Valium I needed to follow her protocol.

 

[[ca...]]

Hello!

I am stopping by  to say hello and so you can see my signature. I crossed last July and I'm almost done.

When I crossed the fatigue was crushing but it went away.

 

It has not been easy but it is been a lot better than it was when I was trying to taper klonopin.

 

At 2 mg I am feeling clearheaded and the cortisol issues are gone.

 

It has been fairly easy to cut every week– (I'm not going to list all  the SX that I had going down)  for me the lower I go  the better I feel with the exception of 4 mg. I had to hold there and finally I just cut and then I felt better again.

Today I'm cutting to 1.

If anybody wants more information you can PM me. I so want to encourage anyone doing a V taper!

 

I'm grateful to Heather Ashton and I'm grateful that I found a Doctor who would give me the Valium I needed to follow her protocol.

Ego, thanks i am almost off the Klonopin and just on the Valium and yep feel exuasted an awfull lot but sure better then jumping out of my skin just trying to taper Klonopin! Again Thanks ~CD

[[Ca...]]

Ego- that's awesome!  You are so close to being done- what an inspiration.  You rock on!

 

Can do-  Thank you.  Yes the Xanax is so short acting and my tolerance is so high that I honestly take my 1 mg bedtime dose and feel nothing most of the time.  The times I do feel more sleepy I think it's psychological because my mind relaxes once I know I've taken my dose and can try to wind down.  I know this Xanax needs to come out of my body, without a doubt.  It's doing nothing for me.  The problem has become- how?  I've tried several other methods and they've all not worked for me (making .125 mg pill cuts, water titration, liquid compound micro tapering).... the only thing that has helped me has been the introduction of Valium during the day to help with the interdose withdrawals.  Because my sleep is so horrible, I want to do a cross over.   

[Guest [...]]

Hello!

I am stopping by  to say hello and so you can see my signature. I crossed last July and I'm almost done.

When I crossed the fatigue was crushing but it went away.

 

It has not been easy but it is been a lot better than it was when I was trying to taper klonopin.

 

At 2 mg I am feeling clearheaded and the cortisol issues are gone.

 

It has been fairly easy to cut every week– (I'm not going to list all  the SX that I had going down)  for me the lower I go  the better I feel with the exception of 4 mg. I had to hold there and finally I just cut and then I felt better again.

Today I'm cutting to 1.

If anybody wants more information you can PM me. I so want to encourage anyone doing a V taper!

 

I'm grateful to Heather Ashton and I'm grateful that I found a Doctor who would give me the Valium I needed to follow her protocol.

 

Hey you!

I'm so glad to read you're doing okay and look how far you've come.

I'm not too far behind you at this point. you were able to take some big steps there.

We just keep on going .

I'm dojng a hold right now. Seems like I hit the wall that you ran in to at 4 mgr.

 

Did you cut per 1 mgr or less? It reads like that in your signature but maybe you took smaller steps in between?

 

Veel liefs,

mOO

( mom of one was my name before: we talked before )

[[Ca...]]

Candice, I crossed over from Ativan to valium and it worked out well. I was a little sedated at first but nothing really bad. I just felt tired for a week or so. I could work, drive, function though. And then the tiredness went away and I felt nothing.

 

Just a word of caution: be SURE you are crossing over to the right amount of valium. Ashton gives Xanax and valium a 1:20 ratio. You can do the math. If you don't c/o to the correct amount of valium you will most likely feel w/ds from the decreased Xanax, and that will not be pleasant. You seem to have this well in hand though.

 

I think you will do fine. You seem to be very sensible about this. It's normal to be scared -- you're doing something new. But I believe your c/o will go well. Think positive!

 

Okatz

 

Thank you OKatz!  Yes, and what's difficult is that there are several different versions of what an equivalent dose is- I did my HW before I went to my last psychiatry appointment, and learned it's 20:1 with Xanax.  My doctor tried to tell me it was half that, 10:1.  She showed me the chart she pulled up from some online thing.  I pulled up the Ashton Manual and told her it's the gold standard.  She gave in to me and prescribed 5 mg because I was telling her that 2 mg does not make me sleepy, and the goal is to help my sleep.  I pray she'll continue to prescribe the amount of Valium I'll need to make a smooth cross over.

[[or...]]

Good for you Candice for informing yourself so you could get the correct amount of valium! And good for you, too, for standing up to your doc.

 

Yes it will make you sleepy . . . and if that is the goal (you want sleep) you might consider dosing 2 x a day and taking more of the dose at night. Just a thought.

 

I believe you will do fine . . . you are smart, well-informed and prepared.

 

Don't hesitate to post on the valium thread from now on with questions, concerns. Most of us "old timers" read that thread.

 

Best,

 

Okatz

[[Ca...]]

OKatz  thank you.  I've been on Valium twice a day for the past two weeks already- 2 mg at 9 am and 5 pm.  So I do have some Valium built up in my system.  Not a whole lot, but some. 

 

I can't decide whether or not I should start my crossover by exchanging .125 Xanax for 2.5 mg Valium or by exchanging .25 mg Xanax for 5 mg Valium.  The ultimate goal is better sleep, but I am afraid of the withdrawals a drop of .25 mg Xanax would bring.  I am VERY med sensitive.  Just changing .125 mg Xanax from tablet to liquid compound (same dose!), sent me into withdrawals. 

 

 

[[Gr...]]

Hi Candice, I started 10mg V (0.5 Xanax equivalent) nearly two weeks ago and that definitely puts me to sleep. I stopped my Lunesta and take Valium in its place and so far the Valium hits hard and fast and I'm out for 7 hours. Downside is I'm pretty fatigued during the day too because of it. I thought I might get rebound insomnia from dropping the Lunesta but that didn't happen.

I also take Xanax XR 1 mg per day too that I'm planning to cross over to Valium starting 4/23 after I see my dr. I was going to convert .25 X to 5mg V at a time like Ashton says. I'm not sure how sedating 5mg is, but the 10mg is very strong.

 

My Xanax does not make me sleepy during the day, but I take the slow release version, .5 morning and .5 evening. I don't feel any specific hit after taking it like with the Valium.

[[ca...]]

Candice, I crossed over from Ativan to valium and it worked out well. I was a little sedated at first but nothing really bad. I just felt tired for a week or so. I could work, drive, function though. And then the tiredness went away and I felt nothing.

 

Just a word of caution: be SURE you are crossing over to the right amount of valium. Ashton gives Xanax and valium a 1:20 ratio. You can do the math. If you don't c/o to the correct amount of valium you will most likely feel w/ds from the decreased Xanax, and that will not be pleasant. You seem to have this well in hand though.

 

I think you will do fine. You seem to be very sensible about this. It's normal to be scared -- you're doing something new. But I believe your c/o will go well. Think positive!

 

Okatz

 

Thank you OKatz!  Yes, and what's difficult is that there are several different versions of what an equivalent dose is- I did my HW before I went to my last psychiatry appointment, and learned it's 20:1 with Xanax.  My doctor tried to tell me it was half that, 10:1.  She showed me the chart she pulled up from some online thing.  I pulled up the Ashton Manual and told her it's the gold standard.  She gave in to me and prescribed 5 mg because I was telling her that 2 mg does not make me sleepy, and the goal is to help my sleep.  I pray she'll continue to prescribe the amount of Valium I'll need to make a smooth cross over.

Candice, glad your P/Doc gave you the right amount of Valium mine insisted that 10 mgs of Valium = 1mg of Klonopin it should be 20 V= 1 k but so she had me cutting .5mg of K and taking 5mgs of V to replace it this went on for 2 months till i finally ended up at the E.R. thought i was having a Stroke ! She finally started up my dose of Valium while cutting down on the Klonopin , has been no cake walk but so far managable but i must say that on the .675 of K i have yet to taper from it`s getting rougher and that`s with 45 mg`s of Valium. She gave me another 5 mgs of Valium if i need it but so far i have not taken it! So i am glad to hear your doing a crossover and the more Valium you hve the better as if it makes you too tired you can lower the dosage right? It will make ya tired but better tired then panicky at least for me anyways. And don`t rush the crossover take it slow i am still crossing over after 7 months but i can thank my Doctor as to be = in dosage between the klonopin and the valium i should be taking 80 mgs of V , so i am tapering while doing a C/O ! I think the way your going about will help you get the Xanax gone !!!!! Take Care ~CD

[[Ca...]]

Thanks can do . It is SO important to educate yourself.  And to listen to your body. I'm learning all of this.

 

Speaking of, I just talked to my psychiatrist and she said I can start the cross over with .125 Xanax exchanges because I am so nervous about starting with .25 mg.  We agreed to check in in a week, and if all is well I can drop to the .25 mg exchange.  Crossing all crossables.....

 

[Guest [...]]

Thanks can do . It is SO important to educate yourself.  And to listen to your body. I'm learning all of this.

 

Speaking of, I just talked to my psychiatrist and she said I can start the cross over with .125 Xanax exchanges because I am so nervous about starting with .25 mg.  We agreed to check in in a week, and if all is well I can drop to the .25 mg exchange.  Crossing all crossables.....

 

 

That's great! Good luck . You're on your way.

[[ca...]]

Thanks can do . It is SO important to educate yourself.  And to listen to your body. I'm learning all of this.

 

Speaking of, I just talked to my psychiatrist and she said I can start the cross over with .125 Xanax exchanges because I am so nervous about starting with .25 mg.  We agreed to check in in a week, and if all is well I can drop to the .25 mg exchange.  Crossing all crossables.....

 

Candice,  nice and slow you will get there ! ~ CD ps: my pm dose is no Klonopin just 30mgs of Valium and i smile

[[Ca...]]

Thank you mOO. And thank you can do, I will feel much better once I get this first exchange done. Slow and steady! I've learned my body does not like fast.

[[Ca...]]

Update: I made the first exchange in my cross over last night and I didn't die lol. My sleep was rough but not much worse than it has been lately. Here's to hoping that the day isn't so bad. I think I would be feeling the withdrawals by now because it's been 10 hours since I made the exchange. Xanax is so short acting. So far, just tired and nervous because I'm on the look-out for symptoms

[Guest [...]]

Update: I made the first exchange in my cross over last night and I didn't die lol. My sleep was rough but not much worse than it has been lately. Here's to hoping that the day isn't so bad. I think I would be feeling the withdrawals by now because it's been 10 hours since I made the exchange. Xanax is so short acting. So far, just tired and nervous because I'm on the look-out for symptoms

 

Yeah, that's the thing... We are watching ourselves so closely that we mostly don't see the improvements till well after. Or anticipate problems.

Keep focussing on the better things.

Good job on your switch last night. It won't go that quick but you're on your way. Just because the Valium is long acting, doesn't mean it won't do anything for you right away. It probably covers the Xanax cut a bit anyway but Valium will need a bit of time to fully build up again.

 

What helped me was distracting myself with ANYTHING I could hack. And repeat , repeat repeat till it becomes a habit.

Hope your sleep improves soon.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks mOO.  I am amazed that my symptoms aren't much worse than they have been lately.  I looked back on my notes from when I made the same size cut to my Xanax when I began my taper, and yes, I am feeling waaaayyy better this time. I'm thinking the Valium I've been taking for the past two weeks has built up enough of a base to cover it immediately. I was so scared to begin this crossover, but now Im feeling safe and reassured that this is going to work. Finally, a solution to getting this Xanax OUT. 

[Guest [...]]

Thanks mOO.  I am amazed that my symptoms aren't much worse than they have been lately.  I looked back on my notes from when I made the same size cut to my Xanax when I began my taper, and yes, I am feeling waaaayyy better this time. I'm thinking the Valium I've been taking for the past two weeks has built up enough of a base to cover it immediately. I was so scared to begin this crossover, but now Im feeling safe and reassured that this is going to work. Finally, a solution to getting this Xanax OUT. 

 

That's great. It's so " tempting " ( if that's the word) to expect worse symptoms. I guess we all sometimes just wait for IT to come back or get bad again. Tricky.

 

Yes, even though some days can be worse than others, it won't be as bad as it was before. For me, at least. Nothing was worse than Ativan cuts for me. Valium has been a god sent.

And we learn to just know that we will get out of a slumpy period again. We learn to trust that the windows will open again. Because they always do , after a less than good day.

A

[[or...]]

I'm thinking the Valium I've been taking for the past two weeks has built up enough of a base to cover it immediately.

 

Yup!

[[Ca...]]

I'm hoping that from this point out nothing will be as bad as Xanax cuts were for me. And the Xanax interdose withdrawals- were literally unbearable. mOO, would you say that your valium cuts are easier than your Ativan cuts were?  I'm not going to get too ahead of myself- but I am mindful that Valium is a transition and not a solution, and I will have to taper it as well.  I hear overall it's easier to taper from than the short acting benzos. Until people get really low in their doses and then it seems to get difficult again?

 

The windows are grand. I agree that as we go along clawing our way out of the benzo hole, we build thicker skin and are able to handle more and more, we become more resilient and for me, I'm learning how to listen to my body. Not just hear it, but really listen. For instance, PMS upticks my symptoms something fierce and my cycle has been realt thrown off by this process. But I've learned all the 'warning' signs and know when PMS is coming to not make any changes. It's frustrating as hell because lately I've been getting my period every two weeks, but, I've got to listen.

[Guest [...]]

I'm hoping that from this point out nothing will be as bad as Xanax cuts were for me. And the Xanax interdose withdrawals- were literally unbearable. mOO, would you say that your valium cuts are easier than your Ativan cuts were?  I'm not going to get too ahead of myself- but I am mindful that Valium is a transition and not a solution, and I will have to taper it as well.  I hear overall it's easier to taper from than the short acting benzos. Until people get really low in their doses and then it seems to get difficult again?

 

The windows are grand. I agree that as we go along clawing our way out of the benzo hole, we build thicker skin and are able to handle more and more, we become more resilient and for me, I'm learning how to listen to my body. Not just hear it, but really listen. For instance, PMS upticks my symptoms something fierce and my cycle has been realt thrown off by this process. But I've learned all the 'warning' signs and know when PMS is coming to not make any changes. It's frustrating as hell because lately I've been getting my period every two weeks, but, I've got to listen.

 

Yes, my Valium cuts have been way more gentle on me than my Ativan cuts. But I have to say that, at the time I was cutting my Ativan, I didn't know anything about benzo's yet and kept cutting and cutting at the rate my ( moron) doctor told me to. I cut 3.25 mgr of Ativan ( 32.5 Valium equivalent ) in about 3-4 months.

Then I went to Valium 15 mgr from 0.75 Ativan ( 7.5 Valium equivalent). I had to updose like that because I was in such bad wihtdrawal from the cuts on Ativan. So I was pretty sedated.

I know...the interdose Wd is nuts! Never ever happened on Valium anymore. But I guess at the starts we are all scared it will come back again. It didn't.

Once I stabilized on Valium, everything was easier 

 

I'm doing a daily taper so I cut pretty small per day , 0.05 mgr.  It still amounts to 0.5 mgr every two weeks or so. I do holds in between, on those crappy Pms weeks. I hear you on that one!

Most women experience an uptick in symptoms at that point in their cycle.

Don't despair! I've had my period stay away for two months, followed by having one every two weeks. And now I'm like clockwork again. I think once things settle down for you, things can go back to normal again. There are GABA receptors all throughout the body and they work on the endocrine system as well. Now that I'm getting lower, this have become more normal again. I think that started happening around 1/3 of my taper done.

 

After you start a cut, you will soon find out when the cut hits you. For most it's around 5 days or so after their cut from what I read here. You feel it lots later on Valium.

So, even though you really can't predict anything much, you'll start to notice some sort of pattern, when you'll feel it the most and cut around those days when you're fairly ok ( meaning no periods etc. Or maybe postponing  cut when you have something important coming up ).

 

Anyway. I'm rambling.

[[Ca...]]

No not rambling at all- this is all very useful information for me (and I'm sure many others who will read it!). It's so reassuring to know that I can trust this valium stuff, that I will be more stable on it and, crossing all crossables, perhaps the worst is truly behind me. I'll never forget those interdose withdrawals, every evening it just became a living hell.  I haven't felt that way since I started the valium, and I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop.... Perhaps there isn't 'another shoe'. 

 

It's also reassuring to hear that maybe my cycle will become mor regular as I get stabilized.  I did notice ovulation signs this cycle, so we shall see!  Did your PMS upticks become less severe after crossing over to V?

[Guest [...]]

No not rambling at all- this is all very useful information for me (and I'm sure many others who will read it!). It's so reassuring to know that I can trust this valium stuff, that I will be more stable on it and, crossing all crossables, perhaps the worst is truly behind me. I'll never forget those interdose withdrawals, every evening it just became a living hell.  I haven't felt that way since I started the valium, and I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop.... Perhaps there isn't 'another shoe'. 

 

It's also reassuring to hear that maybe my cycle will become mor regular as I get stabilized.  I did notice ovulation signs this cycle, so we shall see!  Did your PMS upticks become less severe after crossing over to V?

 

They didn't become less severe after crossing over, right away. For me, it's still pretty rough going, xs wise, during periods. But the symptoms don't linger as long and the periods are now regular again. I think it might just have been the constant cortisol adrenaline rushes and panic and such that got me out of whack and that went away after being on Valium for a while. Which made evrything calm down.

 

Yes, try to not watch yourself or wait for the shoe to drop. Maybe best is just to distract yourself and at least right now,enjoy the absence of the things that happened on your previous benzo.

 

We don't usually notice, I guess, that things have improved, becaue there are still so many things "wrong" . When you still feel miserable, it's difficult to say you're now less miserable, right?

But when I look back to what it was like for me on higher dose and on Ativan...wow. A differnce of day and night. I guess I don't always appreciate that, since there are still things that make me feel like crap. But it's sooooo much better. And most importantly: tolerable.

What is left now, it's something I can deal with and not go into panic over. Even though some days are No picnic. But usually I can get out of the ruts by holding a few days. And when I have a really bad day, the next might be just fine again.

So, we just keep going.

 

It'll be okay.

[[or...]]

Candice:

 

I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop.... Perhaps there isn't 'another shoe'

 

I don't see why there would be. Valium does not give you the nasty i/d w/ds that the short-acting benzos do. I am glad things are working out for you.

[[Ca...]]

Thank you Okatz- me too.  I'm praying I've found my door out of Xanax hell.

 

mOO- I totally get what you're saying about forgetting how worse things were sometimes.  It was just a few weeks ago that I couldn't even sit in the same room as my son who was playing quietly, just dropping a lego, one at a time, into a plastic bin.  Each drop would make a sound that would make my body leap out of my skin.  I couldn't bear to be in my body.  Now, I still have withdrawal symptoms but they are dialed down.  I'll take it, and I won't forget where I was.  Keeping things in perspective like this, helps to me to see progress in the right direction.  My children are my world, and there is nothing that I wouldn't give to be able to be fully present with them again.  I do my best, and sometimes my best is less than I am proud of or would like.  But I'm learning to be more kind to myself, to let myself be however I am, each day.  My husband is good at reminding me that this is all temporary, in the grand scheme of things. 

[Guest [...]]

Thank you Okatz- me too.  I'm praying I've found my door out of Xanax hell.

 

mOO- I totally get what you're saying about forgetting how worse things were sometimes.  It was just a few weeks ago that I couldn't even sit in the same room as my son who was playing quietly, just dropping a lego, one at a time, into a plastic bin.  Each drop would make a sound that would make my body leap out of my skin.  I couldn't bear to be in my body.  Now, I still have withdrawal symptoms but they are dialed down.  I'll take it, and I won't forget where I was.  Keeping things in perspective like this, helps to me to see progress in the right direction.  My children are my world, and there is nothing that I wouldn't give to be able to be fully present with them again.  I do my best, and sometimes my best is less than I am proud of or would like.  But I'm learning to be more kind to myself, to let myself be however I am, each day.  My husband is good at reminding me that this is all temporary, in the grand scheme of things.

 

We are lucky to have an understanding spouse. Or at least supportive.

Yes, perspective.

I hear you on the children. Even the tv I could not stand. If my son would put his fork down on his plate , or I'd hear the dishwasher, Legos dropping... I'd almost scream.

All impressions were just WAY too much. Sounds, light ( I wore my sunglasses indoors for a long time, some days even smell. My neighbor cooks her dinner for that day in the morning before going to work and it made me gag each time.

Now I occasionally get that still, when something unexpected happens, like my husband dropping his keys of the doorbell rings loudly when I'm not expecting anyone.

But SO much better.

Sorry, I'm repeating myself.

 

You ARE moving in the right direction. You're allowing yourself to not beat yourself up over this, trying to accept it. Which is so important. It will come as it comes and we will weather that storm , whatever way it comes. It won't be forever.