withdrawing from klonopin, norco, AND Z Drugs...(sorry, I didn't know...)

[[le...]]

  Sorry!  I don't know why my keyboard will only let me type a certain amount before it won't go down anymore?  Anyway, I realize I am taking a chance with the depression side of things.  But I guess it is a chance I am willing to take! 

 

I truly appreciate ALL of your opinions and suggestions.  Especially when I realize that I really don't have anyone to talk to that understands what this is all about.  It can be very lonely, as I am sure all of you have discovered.  I appreciate your senses of humor and your banter with each other more than you can imagine!  And...I am just dying to get to the point where I can use that cute little jumping emoticon, saying that I am "BENZO FREE"!!!!!

 

Love to you all!

Leena

[[Th...]]

Hi Leena,

 

We usually recommend using a whole pill to help with accuracy if you have a good supply of pills. If you are currently using .125mg in 50ml of liquid and only removing 1/2ml a day, it would take you 100 days. I would like to suggest that maybe you use a .50mg pill in 50ml of liquid. Pour off 25ml for one day and save the other half for next day. Starting with 25ml each day, remove the appropriate amount to take you down to 12.5ml or .125mg and then remove 1/2ml per day, that would take you about 25 days. If you take out 1/4ml, that would take you 50 days. Does this make sense?? I hope I haven't confused you. Just ask more questions if you need more help.

 

 

T2

[[le...]]

Hi Theresa!  Thank you for getting back to me so quickly!  It makes sense to use whole pills, doesn't it?  I just don't seem to have much sense when it comes to all this!  I only had a one month supply of .5 mg pills, and unfortunately I already split them into 1/4's.  I will just have to hope that I was pretty accurate in my cutting.  I will have to get another months supply in order to finish this process so I won't split the next batch.

 

I am going to take your plan up to bed with me and ponder it.  Darn, if I can't make the easiest things seem so difficult!  I appreciate your patience so much!

 

~Leena

[[Th...]]

Hi Theresa!  Thank you for getting back to me so quickly!  It makes sense to use whole pills, doesn't it?  I just don't seem to have much sense when it comes to all this!  I only had a one month supply of .5 mg pills, and unfortunately I already split them into 1/4's.  I will just have to hope that I was pretty accurate in my cutting.  I will have to get another months supply in order to finish this process so I won't split the next batch.

 

I am going to take your plan up to bed with me and ponder it.  Darn, if I can't make the easiest things seem so difficult!  I appreciate your patience so much!

 

~Leena

 

Leena,

 

When I was in withdrawal, I could not add 2 plus 2! My hubby and son helped me with all the math. I would have to go over and over and over it for it to sink in.

 

It will probably be fine going along the way you already are. You just need to remove a little more than what you were to speed it up a little more, 100 days might be a bit long for getting off .125mg.

[[so...]]

Leena, if you are at .125 mg. of clono.  you really are getting down to the low end of the drug.  To make the math easier, just crush and suspend the .125 mg, in 50ml of water or milk, and then pick the number of days you want to shoot for to get off the drug entirely. 

that should make it easy.  examples,  if you were shooting for 20 days.  you would divide the 50 ml suspension by 20 which would equal 2.5 ml.  so day one throw away 2.5 ml, drink the rest . day 2 throw away 5 ml. drink the rest , continueing  adding an additional 2.5 ml to your throw away amount each day.  After 20 days you would be done. 

If this is too quick, and you want to slow down,  throw away 2.5 ml every other day,  then it would take 40 days. 

If you always start with .125 mg. in 50 ml. of solution.  you can change your schedule very easily by holding , or reducing slower or quicker.

Just keep track of how much you have thrown away and reduce or hold from that point. 

I am rereading this to try and make sure it is easy to follow, but I know it can be difficult to do some of this when your brain is in a fog.  You can digest and do the reduction as theresa has suggested , or follow the proceedure above , whichever makes more sense to you.

If its difficult for you, maybe your husband could check the math for you. 

what ever method,  you should try to move forward, and I would suggest that you try to reduce from the .125 mg amount  in no longer than 40 days, since you really are approaching a small amount of the drug in your system, and your body should be starting to realize its just about cut off from the drug.

If still confused or want any other info pllease ask.  There are no stupid questions or judgements made here and we all know what you are going thru.

st.

[[Pa...]]

  Sorry!  I don't know why my keyboard will only let me type a certain amount before it won't go down anymore?  Anyway, I realize I am taking a chance with the depression side of things.  But I guess it is a chance I am willing to take! 

 

I truly appreciate ALL of your opinions and suggestions.  Especially when I realize that I really don't have anyone to talk to that understands what this is all about.  It can be very lonely, as I am sure all of you have discovered.  I appreciate your senses of humor and your banter with each other more than you can imagine!  And...I am just dying to get to the point where I can use that cute little jumping emoticon, saying that I am "BENZO FREE"!!!!!

 

Love to you all!

Leena

 

Hi Leena,

 

You're getting great taper advice, I'm glad because I'm taper stupid.  However if your computer is giving you fits it might be Internet Explorer 8 that's causing it.  Have you installed that?  If you uninstall your problems should go away.  Colin has some changes in the works to make BB play better with IE8, we just aren't there yet. 

[[le...]]

Hi Softtail,  thank you so much for the advice.  Since I was at .125 mg TWICE a day, then it was really .25 mg that I started tapering down from.  SO...does your advice still hold, knowing that I am coming off of twice the amount you may have thought?  I am realizing that even getting the exact amount of milk into the cylinder is difficult (lining it up at exactly 50 ml). 

 

This morning, I woke up feeling really terrible from burning muscles and felt so panicky that only taking out 1 ml (which I did last night, once I realized that I had only been taking out 1/10 ml) could make me feel so bad.  And then, when I had a hard time getting the measurement just right this morning (and feeling like just a drop's worth can affect things so adversely) it made me just want to cry.  I am going to go and get a new cylinder today, as using the bottom half of a broken one is just not going to work too well. 

 

I can see how it will be easy for me to get very "anal" about this whole thing, worrying about the little bit of klonopin powder that I can't get out of the crusher, worrying about the drops of milk that might be left in the cylinder, etc.  Adelia, you had told me you thought I needed to go REALLY slow.  Isn't there a point at which this all just really starts to mess with your mind?  Did you all worry about the amount of drops and powder that you might not be ingesting?  I know that I sound crazy.  Pam...thank you for the computer advice.  I am at the end of the line I can type...I will check about IE 8.  ~Leena

[[...]]

Dear Leena:

 

Oh yes, lots of folks get all worked up about what may be an irrelevent grain of powder.  I remember carefully rinsing out the glass I used and drinking the rinse water.  In my fuddled state, I believed that it helped.  Maybe it did.

 

ntw

[[Th...]]

Hi Leena,

 

Since you are taking .25mg, are you saying that you were mixing 1/4 piece in with 50ml of liquid two times a day and doing a small reduction from each??

 

T2

[[gi...]]

Hello Leena,

 

I just read your blog and thought I'd stop in and say hello. You're getting great advice and support from some folks I've come to consider friends.

 

I didn't taper -- I did quite the opposite -- so I'm here to offer you support & advice regarding withdrawal symptoms that may come up (because that is something I know about, unfortunately!).  I've read of quite a few people here who really felt small reductions so I wouldn't be surprised that that's what's going on w/ you, especially since you're cutting something else, too.  When I went off klonopin my tolerance of ambien changed, and I also developed side effects from using it for so long. I think it was because my CNS was not only readjusting to the lack of K but also to having to modulate the ambien on its own.  As I started to reduce the ambien quite a few of my K w/d symptoms lightened up, so I knew they were also ambien-related.

 

You're right, the only people who understand what you're going through are your fellow benzo buddies. A belated welcome to you!

 

ginger

[[le...]]

Yes Theresa...that is right.  I am crushing 1/4 of a .5mg tablet, putting it into 50ml milk, then drawing off the "throw away"...and am doing that at 10:00 in the morning and 10:00 at night.  It has seemed to be a VERY inexact process, though it seemed like it would be very exact.  I would love for you to try to set me straight one more time.  But I think it has to be somehow based on what I have already been doing.  I am willing to use the whole tablets I have left and get more from my doctor.  I just need to get it to where I am able to take off a small amount at a time, but not drive myself crazy in the process.  A ml is such a tiny amount.

 

I know this should be SO obvious (just like that stupid thing with the syringe) but for some reason it is not. 

 

Ginger, thank you for stopping by to give encouragement.  I do appreciate it so much. 

 

Honestly, are there people who (like my doctor suggested I do) can just stop taking klonopin after taking .25 mg for a little while (1/2 tablet)?  I keep wondering if this is all my imagination.  It is so hard to believe that such a tiny amount of a pill could do so much harm!  But then, I DO remember when I was on the tiniest pill of Diluadid, after my accident...and was only taking 1/4 at a time.  And it really packed a punch!

 

Thanks so much guys!

 

Leena 

[[Th...]]

I would suggest that you take the .50mg tablet, crush and put into 50ml of liquid (water or milk), stir well! Remove 25ml of solution. That leaves 25ml, remove 1ml per day, stir again and then divide the remaining amount into two doses for the day. It does not have to be exactly even, just do the best you can. If things become too difficult, you can hold your cutting or even reduce your cuts to 1/2ml per day. Does this make sense?

 

This has been modified, please read again and make sure you understand. 

[[le...]]

Hi Theresa...I just read and reread.  Then wrote it down.  If I understand it correctly, I would be done in 25 days   (I just had to use him...he is so cute!)  I would take out the 1ml, then 2ml, then 3ml, etc. each morning from the full 25 ml, before dividing what is left in half.  After I have removed the throw away, that is when I would divide the amount left in half...and take half in the morning and half at night.  I think I've got it? Leena

[[so...]]

Leena to support what theresa has told you, every day you start with crushing the .5mg tablet and putting it into 50 ml of milk.    after that throw away 25 ml right off the bat.  you are now left with 25 ml. of milk containing .25 mg. of clono.

If this is day one you would split the 25 ml in half ( I would not do 12.5 ml. I would make it easier by doing 12 ml. in am then 13 ml at night)

After that each day throw away 1ml from the 25 ml. then split in half.

you were correct if you did this you would be done in 25 days.  but this is not written in stone. 

YOu can change anytime by cutting 1 ml day one , then 1 ml day 2 etc. which would have you done in 50 days if you followed that schedule.

I hope you see you are in complete control of the speed of your taper with this method. 

Hope this is now as clear as mud  :).  the taper system works great, and I know taking 1 ml from a batch can seem difficult, but if you use the syringe its really pretty easy.

st.

[[le...]]

Thank you, Softtail.  I started last night (even though I had started before but was drawing out too little).  I appreciate you and Theresa making the math easy for me.

 

I woke up in the middle of the night with a horrible headache and my muscles just all feeling "clenched".  Waking up like that, it made me just want to go even faster (since I am going to feel bad no matter how slow I go, it seems). And then I remember Adelia saying that she thinks even a 50 day taper is too fast for me (and I am aiming for 25).  I probably fight this battle in my head for hours each day, trying to decide if I should go faster or slower. And then when you have a doctor saying to just quit...

 

Anyway, I DO appreciate the voices of sanity here at the BenzoBuddies forum.  I really don't know what I would do without you all.

 

:smitten:Leena

[[Th...]]

I woke up in the middle of the night with a horrible headache and my muscles just all feeling "clenched".

 

These are very typical withdrawal symptoms. I had many headaches and am now having to wear a mouth guard from all the jaw clenching.    I used a "bed buddy" heat wrap for my tense neck and shoulders.

 

After reading your signature line, you just made a 50% cut a few weeks ago. It is quite possible that you are still experiencing symptoms from that last cut being it was a significant amount. I know you would like to speed this along but you know our motto...."slow and steady wins the race."

[[le...]]

Thank you, Theresa, for the advice about the bed buddy.  I had not thought of that.  And, I am okay today with doing the 25 day taper.  You know how it gets in the middle of the night...if I made many decisions based on how I feel alone in the dark, I would be in HUGE trouble!

 

And...I had not thought I could still be having repercussions from that big cut a few weeks ago.  But that makes sense.

 

OK...slow and steady wins the race

 

Leena

[[Pa...]]

Man I hear you on that middle of the night thinking, I'm a mess.  The light of day sure changes things, thank goodness.  I get so frustrated and angry and gloomy when I can't sleep.  My poor dog follows me from my bed to couch, back to my bed, then to another couch.  Poor thing just wants to get some rest and I'm wandering all over the house. 

[[gi...]]

Hey Leena,

 

My muscles are like that too. You know that feeling when you stretch & yawn when you wake up? When I do that my muscles don't relax afterwards. I find myself with my fists clenched and toes curled all the time. At night when I wake up, to loosen up I lay still and concentrate on relaxing (it's kind of weird, because I have to force myself, which is kind of defeating the purpose!). I start with my toes and relax them... then my instep, then my ankles, then my calves. I usually fall asleep by the time I get to my thighs. Maybe this will help you, too.

 

50% Whoa, woman! That's totally kamikaze! Glad you're slowing down!

 

g

[[le...]]

Hi Ginger and Pamster...well, I went to bed tonight NOT taking the norco.  Really thought it was going to be okay, until I woke up at 2:15 am with my legs (from knees down) burning and twisting feeling.  I tried to go back to sleep but the pain was too intense, so ended up taking Norco.

 

So Ginger, you are 8 1/2 months out from taking klonopin and this still happens to you?  I am so sorry!  Do you get scared? 

And Pamster, what are the symptoms that are still with you that keep you from being able to sleep?

 

How do you all deal with feelings that these things will never go away?  Or maybe you all don't have those feelings?  It seems most here are much braver than I am about unending pain.  Ginger, I guess one of the things that scares me is that I remember my mother, before she died, told me that HER mother went to bed with her shoes on every night because her toes tended to curl up and hurt.  And to my knowledge she didn't take a benzodiazepine.  I took the klonopin to help with muscle problems originally (but back then it wasn't pain, just tension).  My 2:15 am voices are saying, "Even when the klonopin is out of your system, your legs are STILL going to hurt just the same!"  I try not to listen.  And I know I need to be thankful that things aren't worse.  I realize I have a huge problem with fear of the future, of what MIGHT be.  And I know that I suffer from a tremendous lack of FAITH.  So it is deeper than just physical.

 

Ok...end of middle-of-the-night ramblings.  I will go back upstairs and try your relaxation technique, Ginger.  Thank you so much for sharing and empathizing...both of you!

 

 

~Leena

[[gi...]]

Leena,

 

Your fear and worry are very natural. Part of it is due to the obsessive thoughts that is a symptom of w/d.  It takes time to find acceptance and trust me, in time you will.  I hope like crazy I won't be like this forever, and I trust that because Pamster has recovered that I will too. I am afraid of permanent damage - I've been out 10 months now - and wonder if I'll be able to handle a job that requires brain power and an attention to detail, which I don't have now and did have.  But I can't let it consume me; I have to keep moving forward.  After all, what other choice do I have?

 

There's a "benzo paradox":  what it was prescribed for tends to be worse when the drug is stopped, so it's no wonder you're having increased pain.  I was prescribed it for anxiety/panic and the physiological anxiety is worse, but I've learned through cognitive behavior therapy to keep the mental anxiety and panic attacks at bay.  BTW, anxiety and insomnia can heighten other symptoms, so maybe trying some deep breathing (in through nose, slowly, breathe out through mouth as if using a straw) in addition to that relaxation technique I told you about will help alleviate some of that. I know it does for me.

 

My muscle tension is really bad again. A weird "pulse" and awful feeling of anxiety in my upper back and arms (I know, weird but I can't explain it any other way) accompanies it.  But the muscle tension is actually my second-worse symptom. My tinnitus, which has always been #1, is positively horrible.  It was lightening up and then in August I made the mistake of drinking half a beer and it ramped up even more than before; now, due to my cat dying, it's even worse! It wakes me up at night and even music with headphones can't mask it. I've had only 5-9 symptoms on any given day the last month, so I feel I'm doing great.  At my worst I had 24 symptoms for a week at month 4.

 

So hang in there, GF, it will get better. It just takes time, and that timeframe is different for all of us.

 

ginger

[[...]]

Hi Leena

 

How to deal with the fear that this is going to last forever.  I refused to think about it.  It was too awful to contemplate and so I just didn't.  Now 16 months off klon I can see it was the right way for me to deal with it.  I still have some muscle tension but it is slowly fading.  The uncomfortable cramp in my left hand has finally let up.  I still have some tension in my back and butt, nothing like it was though.  It no longer keeps me awake nights.  It's just something I notice sometimes.

 

ntw

[[Pa...]]

Hi Ginger and Pamster...well, I went to bed tonight NOT taking the norco.  Really thought it was going to be okay, until I woke up at 2:15 am with my legs (from knees down) burning and twisting feeling.  I tried to go back to sleep but the pain was too intense, so ended up taking Norco.

 

So Ginger, you are 8 1/2 months out from taking klonopin and this still happens to you?  I am so sorry!  Do you get scared? 

And Pamster, what are the symptoms that are still with you that keep you from being able to sleep?

 

How do you all deal with feelings that these things will never go away?  Or maybe you all don't have those feelings?  It seems most here are much braver than I am about unending pain.  Ginger, I guess one of the things that scares me is that I remember my mother, before she died, told me that HER mother went to bed with her shoes on every night because her toes tended to curl up and hurt.  And to my knowledge she didn't take a benzodiazepine.  I took the klonopin to help with muscle problems originally (but back then it wasn't pain, just tension).  My 2:15 am voices are saying, "Even when the klonopin is out of your system, your legs are STILL going to hurt just the same!"  I try not to listen.  And I know I need to be thankful that things aren't worse.  I realize I have a huge problem with fear of the future, of what MIGHT be.  And I know that I suffer from a tremendous lack of FAITH.  So it is deeper than just physical.

 

Ok...end of middle-of-the-night ramblings.  I will go back upstairs and try your relaxation technique, Ginger.  Thank you so much for sharing and empathizing...both of you!

 

 

~Leena

 

Hi Leena,

 

I don't have pain or any withdrawal symptoms anymore, I'm just a lousy sleeper.  I've never been any good at it, hence my propensity to reach for booze and drugs! 

 

I sure wish you'd stop listening to the lies the drug is telling you.  That's exactly what's happening you know, it lies to you. This process is very painful, none of us are brave when we're faced with this.  But, somehow we make it through.  You just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other and know that this is the only way you're going to get better.  I'm sorry to sound so cliche, but the only thing that is going to help you is time.  Your body will do all of the work to get you through this, your only job is allowing it the time it needs to happen.

[[le...]]

Ginger, NTW, and Pamster,

Thank you for responding to me about the fear.  I am so amazed to look at the signatures of so many on here and see how you have been able to handle so much...and am so thankful that you are helping all of the others like me who are trying to follow in your footsteps.  You are honest about your struggles, and yet you also are encouraging that yes! we can do this!  Pam, I think all of you have been VERY brave because you have finished.  Thank you for continuing to speak "truth" to me.  I am so glad to know that you don't have symptoms anymore, Pamster.

Ginger, I SO know that feeling of trying to describe the "weird" feelings in your muscles and nerves.  Sometimes I feel like my legs are vibrating, and sometimes I have those weird "shocky" feelings in my brain.  But mostly it is just "wringing" pain! When I have tried to describe these things to the doctor, well...you probably have had the same experience.  I have not experienced tinnitus yet, and it seems that it is a very prevalent side effect amongst the buddies.  I had it when I was recovering from my accident, and was taking lots of naprocyn and ibuprofen...but thankfully it went away.  My main problems are my muscles and headaches.  I guess it only makes sense that with having had klonopin in my system for 17 years, it would cause some sort of trouble by trying to get rid of it.  NTW, I am glad to hear that your muscle symptoms have much improved.  

 

I am so sorry about your dear cat, Ginger!  Is he the one in the picture?  We had a Samson, too, but we think he was stolen.  We still have 2 others, one of which has been such a comfort to me during all of my recuperation.  Pet therapy is a wonderful thing!

 

Tomorrow I go to see a nutritionist who works for an oncology practice here in Austin...and am hoping that he will do some blood work and see if there might be some deficiencies that might could be helped by food and/or supplements.  If I find out anything that I think would help my fellow buddies, I will be sure to pass

it along. ~Leena

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

Coming up with adjectives to describe what we're feeling is tough. Getting anyone on the outside to understand them is impossible. 

 

How can we be tingling if we say we're numb? 

How can we be feeling inner vibrations and shocks when there are no external tremors?

We feel like our face is twitching, but we can't see it in the mirror.

Our leg muscles feel like a wet dishcloth that is being rung in ever tighter twisting knots.

It feels like some monster is chewing on my insides and my outsides, use that one and see what kind of looks you get!

 

People think we're nuts, or that we're hypochondriacs.  I don't wish this on them though, I don't wish this on anyone.