Help with starting liquid taper from Xanax and adding Valium

[[...]]

Juliea

 

My next cut?

 

What do you think? I need to cut again ( not yet probably next monday) but I want your take on which dose to cut.

 

It will be .25 then, so, a .0625, .0625 and .1250.

 

The cut I am on now was to my 'mid day " cut. So, morning is .1250, mid day is .0625 and late night is .1250 then sleep.

The longest stretch of time between doses is late night to 'morning" dose.It's usually at 3:30 pm and my late night dose is 12:30 am the night before. So, I go 15 hours with out a dose. That's my longest stretch. And I'm doing Ok. It's how it's always been trough the whole taper. I sleep though most of it and am only awake for about 3-5 hours before my first dose.

 

Then 3:30 to 8:30 five hours until second dose. 8:30 second dose .0625, I wait four hours, then last dose at 12:30am .1250.

 

 

Most of my cuts as of late have been between the first cut and second cut. I've gone back and forth. I haven't touched my late night cut in months. I was at .75 and I cut both cuts in a row from my late night .25 cut . and got to .1250. since that time all my cuts have only been from morning and mid day.

 

Anyway, what should I cut next?

 

If I cut the late night, that's a long way to go (15 hours) until the morning cut and maybe I need that full strength dose to last . I also needed it to sleep maybe as well.

 

If I cut the first dose the 'morning" cut, that might be Okay, but same thing, it's been 15 hours and I may need a full dose, plus I wait 5 hours until the next one ( the last two cuts are only 4 hours between).

 

Or I can cut the middle one out completely. That way I've got the full .1250 night dose ( for sleep and 15 hour wait) and then the full .1250 for my day dose. Plus I'd finally be dropping a cut. But, I don't know?

 

The bad part is , sometime I may want a little crumb of a dose between morning and late night. So, I would lose that.

 

I know we've talked about 'round robin" but I didn't do it that way . I just felt I need certain doses to stay firm for 'protection" like the night and morning doses.

 

But I'm starting to get down to it now so...

 

The one that's 'due" to be cut, i guess, is the late night .1250. But is that going to screw up my sleeping?

I'd almost rather just drop the mid dose, that way I'm protected with a 'full" .1250 twice a day.

 

But maybe I should keep it going so that it all ends up at .0625 3 x a day?

 

I don't know?

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ju...]]

I don't know how to advise you on which dose to cut except to say to do what feels right to you.  Being a 1X per day doser I have trouble relating to interdose withdrawal.  I'm not certain what I would have done, but knowing I took Xanax for sleep, I 'probably' would have wanted to preserve a good sized night time dose to help with sleep.  Others swear by making doses as even as possible to the very end.  Sorry I'm not much help with dosing.  If I were dosing multiple times per day, I'd probably want to preserve the doses as long as possible in consideration of the .0625 size of the last cut. 

 

It's wonderful you're a cut away from .25!!!!! 

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Thanks Juliea!

 

Yeah, I wish I was a one dose a day guy . I USED TO BE before I joined this site!!

 

Anyway, we won't go there again...

 

Yes, I'm glad I'm close to .25 now. I have found that my inter dose withdrawal comes and goes. Like it will flair up and then I just relax and lay down and watch the clock and it passes. It follows the same pattern as a dose. It is intense the first 10-20 mins, then better at 30-40 mins, then 1 hour , it's gone. Just like when you take a Xanax and start coming on to it. It's like my mind is making the 'up regulation " on it's own, in real time. Just like taking a dose. But your not.

 

Maybe I'll ask people what to cut next.

 

I do like the idea of dropping my mid dose. That way it would be .1250 day and .1250 night. That would be cool.

I don't really want to mess with the night one just yet. I feel I need it for sleep and the long break between doses.

 

I guess it's between the Morning or mid.

 

Maybe I could adjust the dose time a bit if I needed. Like maybe move my late night dose up an hour or something?

 

Do you think that's safe?

 

 

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Hey Juliea,

 

I just read your posting on Vega's thread.. something about it taking an average of 14 months to feel better even when were off this?

 

God i hope that's not true! And that the study made no difference whether your a long term or a short term user?

 

OMG!!! NO!!!

 

[[Ju...]]

Hey Juliea,

 

I just read your posting on Vega's thread.. something about it taking an average of 14 months to feel better even when were off this?

 

God i hope that's not true! And that the study made no difference whether your a long term or a short term user?

 

OMG!!! NO!!!

 

I very highly doubt that you will fall into the category of someone who will take 14-months to heal, JACD.  Even I'm not in this category.  This was an average based only on the respondents who completed the survey.  Let's look at my quote and I'll bold some sentences for you.

 

I will just give you some averages that may not especially apply to you, Vega.  Most of the folks describe an acute phase where symptoms are heightened.  This phase averages around 3-months for many folks who post here.  After the acute phase is over, for some folks the symptoms continue to wax and wane until they finally stop.  Many folks don't recognize the acute phase has ended except when they get farther out and look back. Dr. Katherine Pittman did a study on us and found the average healing time was around 14-months post withdrawal.  This does not mean it will take you 14-months to heal, it just means the respondents who participated in the study averaged 14-months to heal.  There was no break down between short term and long term benzo users in her data.

 

This is a cliche, but I've always said:  It will end when it ends.

 

There is no timeframe I know to offer you, but I would be confident that there will eventually be an end to the symptoms.  20-days is extremely early in the withdrawal process.

 

Dr. Pittman did not do a break down between healing rates for long and short term folks.  This was a very simple survey and all it did was give us averages based on the respondents who chose to participate.

 

Think of the bell curve.  Some data falls at one end and some falls in the middle and some at the other end of the spectrum.  You're gonna be fine JACD! We'll only know when it ends for each of us --- when it actually ends.  I believe you've got a great shot at stepping out of this experience rather unscathed.   

 

[[...]]

Thank you my friend!!!

 

I REALLY needed to hear that!!

 

I HOPE so, my God...I'm not that big a user, never was...but still..Man this stuff is hell.

 

I just sent a copy of the report to all my friends ( some are on Benzo's) and sounded the alarm!!

 

I do so hope your right..You'd THINK I'd be one of the ones who makes it out Ok, but then again, I never thought getting off a drug would take so long and be so agonizing a process as this has been over the last 4 months...The worst experience of my life. And 100% could have been avoided, had I had some info. Thanks Doctors.

 

Benzo's are not like other drugs. And that's what no one understands.

 

Well, you do Juliea...

 

Thanks for calming me down!!!

[[...]]

Hey Juliea,

 

I just read your posting on Vega's thread.. something about it taking an average of 14 months to feel better even when were off this?

 

God i hope that's not true! And that the study made no difference whether your a long term or a short term user?

 

OMG!!! NO!!!

 

I very highly doubt that you will fall into the category of someone who will take 14-months to heal, JACD.  Even I'm not in this category.  This was an average based only on the respondents who completed the survey.  Let's look at my quote and I'll bold some sentences for you.

 

I will just give you some averages that may not especially apply to you, Vega.  Most of the folks describe an acute phase where symptoms are heightened.  This phase averages around 3-months for many folks who post here.  After the acute phase is over, for some folks the symptoms continue to wax and wane until they finally stop.  Many folks don't recognize the acute phase has ended except when they get farther out and look back. Dr. Katherine Pittman did a study on us and found the average healing time was around 14-months post withdrawal.  This does not mean it will take you 14-months to heal, it just means the respondents who participated in the study averaged 14-months to heal.  There was no break down between short term and long term benzo users in her data.

 

This is a cliche, but I've always said:  It will end when it ends.

 

There is no timeframe I know to offer you, but I would be confident that there will eventually be an end to the symptoms.  20-days is extremely early in the withdrawal process.

 

Dr. Pittman did not do a break down between healing rates for long and short term folks.  This was a very simple survey and all it did was give us averages based on the respondents who chose to participate.

 

Think of the bell curve.  Some data falls at one end and some falls in the middle and some at the other end of the spectrum.  You're gonna be fine JACD! We'll only know when it ends for each of us --- when it actually ends.  I believe you've got a great shot at stepping out of this experience rather unscathed. 

 

Hey Juliea! I finally figured out how to use 'quotes" Ya!

Anyway, just to make clear, the study did NOT break down or 'separate" out the Benzo users who were on it for short term or long term correct? I think that's what your telling me, but I just want to make sure. Because that's what I was most stressed over.

 

So, the study didn't look at who was on Benzos for 20 days ,for example,verses 20 years, and say 'well, the 20 day people took this long to recover and the 20 year people took that long to recover".

 

Am I getting that right?

 

Because at first I took that to mean that it made no difference whether your a short term or long term user, you'll still take 14 months to heal!

 

I don't think that's what you ( or the study ) are saying ,right?

 

Sorry, Benzo brain....

[[Ju...]]

Correct, short term and long term folks were NOT separated out in the study.  The long term and short term folks were all lumped in together.  This is why I said it is a very simple study.  Simple, as opposed to a more complex study where time on the benzo would have been broken out.

 

So, we really can't use this data to evaluate much of anything except an overall average of respondents.  We don't even know how many short term folks participated.  However, my guess is that the average healing time was heavily weighed towards more long term folks.

 

In short, I would not worry about it. 

[[...]]

Hi Juliea!

 

Thank's again for clearing that up for me. I feel more relived! Just an update here..Today is day 13 onto my .3125 cut. It has been a very good cut health wise. It followed the usual patter. Cut , then day 2 feel something , day three get slight break, day 4 bad, day 5 really bad, then day 6 stable, and going forward calm. In fact, health wise, I was ready to cut on day 9 or by day 10. In fact I almost felt normal. No inter dose wd's on a few days too. or very minor. I was really starting to feel what life would be like after all of this again. It was good.

 

BUT! here comes 'life' in the way. A person I thought was one of my deepest friends, that I've known for 20 years just told me never to speak to him again. It turns out he also has done this same thing with another one of my best friends and he's just 'cutting people off".So, in a way, I don't really take it personally, but it still hurts. And he was REALLY cold about it too.And when I showed his emails to our mutual friends and how he treated me, they are just seething! And so am I. He also called me 'stupid" for getting 'addicted" to Xanax. He doesn't understand this drug. Most people don't. They think it's like any other drug. You can get off it in a week or so. They don't get it. Or that you were abusing it and getting"high" off it so it's your fault.etc..They don't understand that this crap just takes your CNS and 'hijacks" it. That we become 'accidental addicts". We WANT to stop. But when we do we get sick. And the Doctors never said a word about this. I'm not saying I would never have taken a Xanax. But they should LET US KNOW how dangerous this is. and to ONLY use it once in a blue moon. But they don't.

 

Anyway, he's a nut case in his own right , he has been on 'anti psychotic ' meds and has been in a mental hospital. So, he's not the greatest judge of people either. Still it hurt. We've been in a band together and he's still on some music I've been mixing, so I'm reminded of him. Again, he HAS done this to many other people. I am not the only one, lately. It's just this week it was my turn.

 

And I don't need this 'drama" when I'm so sick.

 

So, this is all a long way to go to say, this is why I haven't cut to .25 yet. I was ready ' health wise" but then all this drama hit.

Also, My sleeping pattern is off again. Been going to bed at 7 am. And getting only 5 hours. And tired all day.

 

I also wanted to hold because my Mom was going in to see if she had  cancer! (Turns out, she is fine, it was all in her head!!) But I didn't want to be going through WD hell and find out "oh Mom's got cancer!!" So, I held for that too.

 

And, out here, were having a heatwave, it's 101 degrees today ( I cant sleep when it's hot and humid) AND I will be all alone in the house Saturday. Normally that would be great. But I didn't want to be on day 3 or 4 of a new cut and having WD's with nobody here.

 

Plus, it's already day 13. Day 14 makes 2 weeks. So, what the hell. It's not like it's day 8 and I'd have to hold 7 more days to make 2 weeks. Two weeks is practically here. So, I'm just holding and I'll cut on day 16. For a 15 day hold.

 

Sooooo. I'm holding. I now plan on cutting on Sunday. BUT I was ready days ago.

 

The other odd thing is , starting last night I've been getting mini 'waves' of anxiousness after each dose. But for the last 3 days I've felt today normal. Now (day 12/13) I'm getting anxious waves.

 

Could it be that the CNS is waiting for a new cut, and since I haven't done it yet, it's acting up?

 

Or do you think , it's just a 'wave" and not to worry about it?

 

Maybe it's just this 'life" stress. Though , the stress is going away. My Moms' OK, my other friends are on my side, and I've starting to accept and make peace that my 'old" friend is really just a jackass. Who has done this to other people, not just me. And who needs that?

 

 

Thoughts?

[[Ju...]]

I'm sorry that happened between you and your friend.  Like getting dependent upon Xanax was something you set out to do.  Grrrr.  People have no idea about this until they go through it themselves.

 

I had something similar happen.  I got up one morning during my taper and I'd received a butt call voicemail the night before from a friends cell phone.  The recording lasted at least 5-minutes and to my horror it recorded 2 of my "friends" talking crap about me missing the friends birthday party due my situation with Xanax.  It really hurt, so I know where you're coming from.

 

I'm glad things turned out all right for your Mom.  Whew, that was a close one.

 

Good luck when you finally do make the cut down to .25mg.  I know you're going to be thrilled to get this taper over with.  It won't be much longer now.  Hang in there! 

[[...]]

Hey Juliea!

 

Wow! A butt call! and they we're talking about you!! That sucks!! well, at least you heard them. Wow. Yes, no one knows unless they've gone though it. Sucks. In a way, I understand, because with most drugs and even illnesses, one can recover in a reasonable amount of time. Like 2 weeks, or maybe a month or so. MOST things are like that. But not Benzos. and that's why it's so hard for people to understand.

 

Even people in the 'music biz" who 'get " the drug thing. They can't process that it takes so long and that we are 'accidental addicts".

 

Even Heroin can be kicked in 7-10 days or so. I have another friend who ( hasn't abandoned me yet!) and he was a heroin addict years ago. And he kicked it.but it only took a short time compared to me with this stuff. and at least with heroin, you cant say you thought it was 'safe". It's illegal for gods sakes! So one has some idea going into it, that it's not gonna be pretty getting off it.

 

But not benzos!! They are 'medicine" from your familly doctor. It's 'safe" not like 'street drugs" HA!!! Right! B.S.

 

Reason number 1,000,000,222,000, 00 why these 'doctors" should TELL US THIS FIRST!!

 

But they dont.

 

And the other big issue i've found is people think your using benzos to 'get high"..My friend ( the ex junky) said "oh, it must be hard having the pill bottles around when your trying to kick it" And i told him no! I'M NOT ADDICTED TO THIS CRAP!! THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!It's not any 'temptation" to have full bottles of Xanax in the house. I don't WANT any of it! I only take Xanax to stop the WD's caused by taking Xanax!!!

 

Plus, my dose is so low, it doesn't even work as a 'anti-anaiety" med really. It just works as a 'anti xanax withdrawal" med!

 

But people dont get that either. They think it's like 'coke, or pot or booze:..they don't understand.

 

And thats why these drs. and pharma and the media should get the word out and stop handing this crap out like candy.

 

It is not the same as other drugs. It SHOULD be, but it aint.

 

And thats the problem.

 

But according to 'some people" we're 'stupid" for getting hooked on this. We should have 'known better".My ex- friend said he has 'no sympathy" for people who get hooked on Benzos.

 

Jackass.

 

See, since HE was on 'psych meds" (but not benzos) and HE kicked it in 4 weeks, why can't I then?

 

Believe me, I hate him, but I also will never trust a Dr. or Drug company ever again. They can prescribe what ever they want but I'm gonna google the hell out of it and talk to other victims , I mean, 'patients" who have had what they've prescribed me before I put it in my mouth.

 

I'm never taking any Doctors word for it again. Or even 'friends".

[[...]]

Hey Juliea,

 

Like I say in the posts before, before my Mom drama and my Ex- friends attack on me, I was ready to cut. I had 3 calm days in a row it was day 11 or so, then all the drama hit and I was still hanging on but chose not to cut yet.

 

Well, last night , all day was tough ( day 13) I was anxious all day and all of my 'climbs' after each dose were bumpy. I was agitated all day.

 

Anyway, I was upset and about 4 hours into my first dose, had one hour left to go until dose number 2 and I said, I'm gonna drink a cup of wine. F it!!

 

Well, I literarily had 3 sips or mini gulps of wine, thats it, I left half ( or more then half) in the cup. It was half of a half of a cup to begin with! Anyway, 20 mins in my sxs got bad..

 

I kept telling myself, it wasn't the wine. I mean, I REALLY only had 3 sips! It was a joke.

 

And I was kinda on edge all day to begin with. And I have had over the course of my taper ( especially in the beginning) a few cups of wine once every few weeks. But not for a while now ( at least a month). And I never felt bad at all. Still, I just didn't want to push it. But the times I have drank , I've been fine. And I had the whole glass too.

 

Anyway, I think this may have been like the 'Strawberry Incident".

 

I think I just got hit from all the drama and at the same time did have 3 sips of red wine and I don't want to program my CNS into thinking that 'wine" was the problem.

 

Oh lord, PLEASE don't take that one away from me...Please!!

 

Still, no more wine or anything for me for a while.

 

I just hope it wasn't related. Because I have drank before and it's been cool. Not offten , like only 3 or 4 times in 5 months and only a glass of red. But I just hope it was the 'strawberry" effect.

 

Thoughts?

[[Ju...]]

It was probably the strawberry effect.  Even Professor Ashton says that most people are able to tolerate alcohol in moderation.  I'd say that you getting revved up has nothing to do with the cut or the few sips of wine.  You'll see what I mean when you finish your taper.  There will be no cuts or anything else to blame a little rev up of symptoms on here and there after the benzo is gone.  Folks who've withdrawn or who are withdrawing from benzos may have compromised nervous systems for a while.  This can cause symptoms to wax and wane with no triggers.  But all of this rights itself with time.  The first step is to remove the benzo, (taper), and the last step is to stop, (take the last little crumb) ..... then recovery will eventually happen.   

[[...]]

Thanks Juliea!

 

Yes, "The Strawberry Effect". I thought so too. I was starting to bug out a little even before I had my 3 sips. And just maybe I might have felt a 'tiny" bit of 'something" from the wine ( but who knows, it was so small) and then that may have added to what was already there. Like "oo no! now I'm starting to get buzzed, IS THIS BAD??..then PANIC. Where as normally , it's be fine or you'd even feel like yeah bring it on, lets have some more! This time in my 'nervous" state it seems 'different" and therefore 'frightening.

 

And then of course, it went away. and I did my second dose and was fine. And have been for 2 days now. I think it was the drama of the past few days catching up with me. It was a full moon too! Nothing was working. It sucks because I felt really good , like day 6 on..until day 12 /13 that's when the Ex- friend and Mom drama hit.

 

I looked back on my cut history yesterday. It seems to follow a pattern. This cut, will be 15/16 days long ( a bit over 2 weeks), the cut before this was 10 days, the cut before that was, 15 days, the cut before that was 10 days etc.

 

It seems like it's 10 days one cut, then next is 15, back and forth. One long , then the next short. That's been the pattern, at least down to .3125.

 

However, before the drama this week, I thought I was gonna make it in 9/10 days. That would have been two 10 day cuts in a row. But, not this time, I guess.

 

I wonder if , the smaller my doses get , the longer the holds will be?

Or will it just be as it's always been? One long , then one short?

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

It was probably the strawberry effect.  Even Professor Ashton says that most people are able to tolerate alcohol in moderation.  I'd say that you getting revved up has nothing to do with the cut or the few sips of wine.  You'll see what I mean when you finish your taper.  There will be no cuts or anything else to blame a little rev up of symptoms on here and there after the benzo is gone.  Folks who've withdrawn or who are withdrawing from benzos may have compromised nervous systems for a while.  This can cause symptoms to wax and wane with no triggers.  But all of this rights itself with time.  The first step is to remove the benzo, (taper), and the last step is to stop, (take the last little crumb) ..... then recovery will eventually happen. 

 

Yes, I've been anticipating having sxs when I'm off and done with my taper.

 

I'm sure we'll be talking more about that soon, but how do you deal with it?

 

I've been ( the past month or so) getting experience with having a wave hit ( either before a dose or even after a dose, like 2 hours in) and I just lay down and breath and watch the clock and TIME IT. And it seems to follow the same pattern as coming on to a Xanax.

 

First 20 mins are bumpy, jumpy , nervous, the next 30-40 better, then 1 hour in , it's gone. Just like taking a dose. But your not.

 

But yeah, how do we deal with this when we don't have Xanax anymore?

 

I wonder how long it takes to 'go away"?

 

That's also why, I pray I can still have my red wine once this is all done. Because, I don't want to take a benzo. But I wish I could, for a major thing, like flying to Japan or something. I will NEVER use it at home or for sleep again etc. ONLY once in a blue moon for something major. Then thats it.

 

Or maybe a long half life Benzo like Valium, one in a while, for some out side thing I have to do thats MAJOR.

 

But, I don't know? Maybe Not.

 

I do read horror stories about it. I don't want to trigger this all over again! No way in hell! And I do want to try everything under the sun FIRST, and see if that works, not a Benzo. But I really did use it safely for 4 years. A .5 30 pill supply lasted , 7 months!

 

Still, it dose make me nervous. And I don't want to take it again. I really don't.

 

But how can we deal with the Anxiety of life?

 

How can we drive, deal with people, make a living? what do we do when we still feel so uptight but can't take Xanax?

 

maybe some wine, will help it pass?

 

But I'm gonna try and do nothing for a month at least...

 

I've got a friend who wants me to start taking Lexapro after this to deal with the 'nervous/panic stuff. But I don't know. I'm not taking a damn thing for a while anyway. I want my poor CNS/Brain to be off EVERYTHING for at least 30-60 days first...

 

But then what?

 

I am going to need something, I think to 'deal" with the outside world again.

 

And I cant take a Benzo, I guess

 

Thanks again Doctors!!!

 

 

Thoughts Juliea?

[[Ju...]]

I'd give my body a good length of time to adjust and I'd don't believe 30-60 days is nearly long enough.  You could look into CBT and also possibly some supplements that do not effect the GABA system.  My focus would be on trying to get to the root of the problem through some kind of talk therapy.  And also many folks describe being put back into withdrawal very quickly when taking benzos again after a completed taper, so I'd be very wary of doing this.  Ashton says that we don't need to worry about one offs for surgery and such, but I personally would not wish to take a benzo for something like flying.  I'd prefer to get at the root of my fear of flying and deal with that rather than resort to a chemical sedative.  But this is just me and my feelings about the matter. 

[[...]]

Yeah, I know. I thought you'd say something like this. Well, I don't want to take Benzos again either. I'd rather drink a half bottle of Jack or something to deal with flying if I had to! I don't know. But for day to day living, yes, I'll try CBT and stuff. I knew you couldn't take Benzos as a 'long term" solution for anxiety or panic. And I never did. The most Benzos I've ever taken has been the last 5 months trying to get off it. I think I got more addicted /sicker trying to get off it then when I was on it 3-4 days a week. At least then I was half 'normal" and had 'normal" days. If I had a wd, it's be like 24-36 hours after my last dose, and come 'out of the blue" and last 20-40 mins, then be gone.

 

But now I'm sick all the time. Every single day, I'm sick. I'm either a little bit sick, or medium sick, or really sick.But the point is, I'm sick every single day. For five months.

 

And I don't think it's because of my reduction in dosage. I think it's because I went from 3 times a week. To three times a day. Right from the start, without my body really telling me to do that.

 

That's why I'm so sick, i think. It's the frequency not the fact that it's less of the drug. Or I could say, it's both. Because my body went 'wait! we're taking this everyday now? What? And three times everyday? Huh? Why? We're not craving this , why are we doing this?"

 

And then at the same time I also was trying to reduce the dose too!!  The body's like 'Wait!. we're taking this three times a day now AND we're trying to reduce the dose too? Huh?"

 

And that's what really F'd me up. I know it.

 

I should have just done a Taper on my 3-4 days a week. One dose, 3- 4 times a week. Reduce each week. That's it.

 

I'd probably be done by now, and maybe could have even been able to take it again once in a while.

 

But now, I've screwed the pooch.

 

My friends told me I should have gotten profession help to get off it and not listened to a web site.

 

But, I didn't know what to do. It was before I met you. I feel like 5 months ago , I had a choice, I was standing at the edge of the quicksand looked at the BB who are drowning in it, and I was like 'uh, I'm not as bad as you guys, I only do it 3-4 days a week, but I am concerned.." And they said "oh, it doesn't make a difference , just come on in the quicksand, it's the only way out."

 

 

Ok.

 

And I went from being 'concerned", but still having half a life to ZERO life. I think I ended up taking the long hard road, when I maybe didn't need to. I went from having a, 'concern" about my benzo use to it totally ruining my life. 5 months ago I was a 5 on a 1-10 scale, now I'm at 100!! Just off the charts.

 

If some one does Heroin 3-4 times a week and is 'concerned" and wants to curb it or stop, you don't tell that person to start taking Heroin 3-4 times EVERY SINGLE DAY do you?

 

I should have gone to a specialist. But I didn't. I didn't think my use was that bad, BECAUSE IT WASNT at first.

 

But now it is.

 

All right. End of rant.

 

I'm sick AGAIN today. I want to cut but, I'm sick. Now going on day 17 of .3125

 

[[...]]

I'd give my body a good length of time to adjust and I'd don't believe 30-60 days is nearly long enough.  You could look into CBT and also possibly some supplements that do not effect the GABA system.  My focus would be on trying to get to the root of the problem through some kind of talk therapy.  And also many folks describe being put back into withdrawal very quickly when taking benzos again after a completed taper, so I'd be very wary of doing this.  Ashton says that we don't need to worry about one offs for surgery and such, but I personally would not wish to take a benzo for something like flying.  I'd prefer to get at the root of my fear of flying and deal with that rather than resort to a chemical sedative.  But this is just me and my feelings about the matter. 

 

 

So, you don't think 30-60 days is long enough to even start with Prozac or Lexapro?

 

I'm not talking about Benzos. I understand that. I mean some Med, that's a SSRI or somthing, that takes weeks to start and only takes a few weeks to taper from, not a Benzo.

 

 

You think 30-60 days is too long for that?

 

CBT would be great but how do I get to the Shrinks office in the first place, If I cant take a pill?

 

I haven't left my block or driven in a car or really gone anywhere in 4 months. I USED TO be able to but not now. In the past (like 6 months ago before the start of this Taper) I would have taken 1mg of Xanax and drive to the Dr. and been done. Then I wouldn't have touched a Xanax for 2 or 3 days.

 

I wish I could go back to that.

 

I've made it worse.

[[...]]

Hey Juliea

 

 

Sorry. If I was ranting too much. I'm just sick of being sick.

 

I'm not mad at you. You never gave me any bad advice.

 

Your the only friend I've really got.

 

Thanks

 

J

[[Ju...]]

Please feel free to vent. 

 

I know this, Xanax caused an unreal chemical anxiety in me.  It was awful.  All of the CBT in the world could not help me because I tried it to no avail.  It was rough going to the therapists office even though it was less than a half mile from my home.  But I made myself go ... this was during tolerance before I knew the anxiety was caused by the Xanax.  But CBT is dealing with patterns of thought that are causing anxiety.  We could find very few thought patterns that were my problems.  It was frustrating.  I bought a CBT workbook from the bookstore that was even more helpful than the therapist.  My problem with anxiety did not predate my use of benzos.  Since your problem did predate your benzo use, this would probably be more helpful to you. 

 

But with me, all of this began to clear up during my taper as I removed the chemical culprit that was causing my problem. 

 

I don't know much about SSRI's.  I've taken Prozac for depression related to Xanax tolerance and it was helpful and I did not have a problem stopping it when the depression passed.  I don't believe it did a thing for anxiety, in fact antidepressants are rather activating aren't they?  I'm just not knowledgable in this area.  You might ask on Other Medications.  Someone there may know much more than me or even the Anxiety section may be helpful. 

 

 

[[...]]

Hey Juliea

 

Thanks. Well, today I cut to .25!

 

I'm still cutting within my .5 pills. And the past few days have been bumpy.I think it's been all the stress etc. But I don't know. I've been asking around on the board here for advice about weight of dosage etc.

 

Because I cut up my .5 pill into 4 quarters. I throw out one quarter ( usually the smallest one) and take the biggest one and cut that in half and eat the biggest half of that, throw the other half away. Then eat the last two quarters as my morn and late night dose. That made .3125. But now, I have to cut a second piece again in half, to make .25 from a .5 cut.

 

My quarter cuts weigh ( I'm weighing them all now) between 28g to 30 to 35 g. The 'average is 30g or 32g most days. Anyway, now I'm wondering if the difference in size each day is messing me up? I try to keep it consistent but it's hard with the cutters and blade etc.

 

I do have the .25 pills. But each time I try and incorporate them into the mix, I feel my sxs rev up. That's why I want to know if they add something 'extra' to the smaller pills, like the .25's.

 

It would be easy to just take one .25 and split it 3 ways, but I don't want to risk it yet. Because each time I've tried to 'add' or 'use" a bit from a .25 pill, like a .1250 cut from a .25 pill, my sxs rev up!

 

Unless I'm imagining it. Or unless the drug co.s 'add' something to make it 'kick in' faster etc...I don't want anything added. Just less of the pill. That's all I want.

 

What do you think?

[[Ju...]]

The only thing in a regular fast acting Xanax tablet of any strength that would be active, is the actual active ingredient --- alprazolam.  The rest of the stuff are just fillers and binders.  There's just no way a drug company would put something active in a .25mg tablet to make it kick in faster.  No way Jose.  This is just my opinion because I'm not a pharmacologist.

 

Anyway, it won't matter much longer because you're on .25!! Whoohooo!! Great news.  When I hit .25, I remember thinking ---- Oops, I really have tapered this stuff and it won't be around much longer. 

 

As far as very slight differences with your pill weights, my opinion is that this isn't having much of a bearing on how you're feeling if it's close.  I have friends I tapered with who cut pills into eighths without weighing the pills, so I know it works.

 

If you can weigh out your full dose for each day and make this a consistent weight from day to day, you could then split this up into your doses for the day.  That way the day to day dose will be consistent.

[[...]]

Hi Juliea!

 

I need help!  I'm confused here.

 

Update. It's day 9 into my latest cut. It's .25 now . I think? This is where I need help.

 

Ok, so I'm still using my .5 pills to cut with. However, after getting some good info on here from you and others, I may try and go and switch tomorrow to the 'new' all .25 pills, then finish with those. I am starting to trust that there really is no 'added drug' to 'speed up' the pill or whatever. I think it was the 'strawberry effect". So, I'm gonna try and go for it tomorrow. Maybe.

 

Anyway, I've also been weighing all my cuts now. And it turns out a half of a .5 Xanax should weigh 65.5 Grams. A full .5 pill weighs .130 Grams. Also I weighed my new .25 pills too and they also weigh .130 grams.

 

I've been cutting my .5 pill in half ( to make .25) then cutting that into three doses for the day. Morning .0625, Mid, .0625 and Night .1250. Fine. But it turns out, when I cut my .5 in half it's never totally even. So, all along I've been using the slightly larger half and working with that. So, a perfect cut should be 65.5 gram each. But what I end up with is one cut at like, 58 gram and another cut at like, 70,71 gram or so. And I've been using the larger half.

 

Sorry if this is confusing! Anyway, my cuts it turns out are slightly above .65.5 grams each day. They tend to end up around 70 grams, to as high as 74 grams. I think?

 

That's 5 to 8 grams ABOVE what should be a 'proper' .25 cut. So, I'm slightly above where I should be at.

 

My cuts weigh out daily like so, Morning, 20-21 grams. Mid 20-21, grams and Night 30-32 grams. I try to get it close and consistent but it's hard with the .5's.

 

Anyway, my daily gram amount is somewhere between 70 to 74 grams each day. A 'proper' .25 cut (from a .5 Xanax) should weigh 65.5 to 66 Grams.

 

The other thing is the scale is always off, I'll weigh the same pill 3 times and get three diffrent weights! They only change by a gram or two but sometimes it's higher sometimes lower. So, who the hell knows really, I just try and guesstamate. And take the weights with a grain of salt.

 

But I am above a bit.

 

Now here's where I don't know what to do next.

 

My next cut is coming up, but I'm off by 5 to 8 grams here, and my last cut before this one , my .3125 dose ended up weighing somewhere between 80-84 Grams daily. The cuts now at .25 weigh between 70-74 grams daily.

 

So, it seems when ever I 'cut" I'm cutting down about 10 grams each cut. And I feel it too.

 

But i'm afraid if I make another cut to get to .1875, it would or should actually be a cut of about 20 grams, not 10. And that may be a huge cut! Because my last cuts have only been 10 grams each, you see.

 

The other thing is, Ok, I'll try and cross over to my new .25 pills. Fine. But when I do that. THAT'S ALSO A NEW CUT!

 

Well, it will be at least a new cut of between 5 to 8 grams, and that is less then what I'm on now. That will be almost what I have been cutting gram wise all along. 10 grams each new cut. So, even a switch to get to .25 ( though I thought I was here already) will be a extra cut! And MORE TIME ADDED.

 

So, I'll switch ( if I do) to the .25 pills but I'll get a 'mini" cut again and , unfortunately, I'll still only be at .25!!

 

I thought I had 3 more cuts to go, But I think now, it's more like 4 more cuts to go, or more! Because 'gram' wise, i'm still not actually at .25 yet! Damn!!

 

Ahhh!!

 

Advice? Please!

 

What do I do?!!

[[...]]

Juliea

 

The other 'concept" is to just stay in .5 pills all the way ( like we have talked about)..But I still have the same problem with the grams being higher, then they should be at right now.

 

So, if I just stick with the pills i'm using now ( the .5's) and don't switch to the .25's, I've still got to make another cut soon.

 

 

I'm at .20 Morning/20 Mid/30 night. or so, sometimes slightly higher as mentioned in the last post.

 

But now how do I cut? If I wasn't thinking about grams and weight, I would make a cut to the mid dose or cut the night dose .

 

But I've only been cutting 10 grams per cut, it turns out. So, if I cut the mid, the way I've done it all along it would be by 10 g, so a new cut to the mid would be 10 grams from the current 20. My daily dose would be 20/10/30. But THEN I'M STILL NOT AT .1875!! I'm really at , about 5 grams below .25.

 

That's Ok, but it's still not .1875.

 

Or I drop the mid dose and end up at 20/0/30. That would do it, but , that's a huge cut! When my cuts have averaged 10 grams each time to then suddenly go down to 20, I think may be a lot?

 

 

Unless, I do the first half cut of 10 grams, then next half (5 days later) the other 10 grams? But I've never done that before.

 

Or Split the cuts between 2 doses? Like cut the mid by 5 or 10 grams, and also cut the night by 5 or 10 grams?

 

But I've never cut two doses at once before ...

 

Ahhh!!

 

I probably just posted the same damn question twice! But either way, it's the same whether I switch to .25 pills or stay with in my .5 pills.

 

Help!

[[Ju...]]

I was wondering how you were doing JACD!  Good to see you. 

 

Well darn on the pill weights.  How are you feeling?  Do you feel like your withdrawals have lessened, are about the same or have increased?

 

This will help me know what to tell you I would do.