Help with starting liquid taper from Xanax and adding Valium

[[Ju...]]

My pill cutter didn't produce very much powder.  Plus, since I precut my pills for the week, I just cut 'em and forgot about 'em.  What little powder I got, was thrown away. 

[[...]]

Well, good to know, thanks.

 

Today, I feel good and felt better yesterday as well. After talking with you and noticing my own pattern, It seems like , my pattern goes something like this. Make cut, 3 days go by and feel fine, day 4,5, feel slight WD's (1-2 max), day 6, WD's down but still here (0-1), day 7 (today) no WD's yet...I think for me it may be 3 days of nothing, then 3 days of WD's then it stops or slows..So, I'm still waiting for the all clear ( I can see why you would never make a cut before at least 8 days, I totally agree) for me Wed will be day 8, but I may hold until Thursday or Friday even, if everything stays cool of course.

 

Thanks again for sharing your experience with me. It really, really, helps. Thank you!

 

Well, in a few hours, will be time for my 2nd dose (late day) and then comes the question..To use the dust or not use the dust!?

 

I have decided, that I will never use the dust on one of my intentional cuts..like my late night dose of .19..or whatever it is. Any pill that I'm trying to shave off .0625 at a time, I wont use the dust then. But I think, for just a straight cut, with no quarters removed or anything. I think I may use it all. Dust too. I thought it may be best to know that the only cuts I'm making are the quarter cuts that I make to one of my doses. I don't want any "accidental" extra shavings going on that I'm not planning. I don't want to get screwed up.

 

I only based that judgement on my little experiment test yesterday. Using all the dust seemed to make my dose smooth, smooth like all the others, including my cut dose.

 

However, I am stuck on one thing..Maybe, I felt better yesterday, just because, I felt better yesterday! In other words maybe, because it was day 6 into my cut and day 3 of any WD's, that I finally stated getting used to the cut on it's own. And my taking my little dust had nothing to do with it?

 

It makes me think. As you know, I don't want to add more to this, so, maybe today I wont use the dust, and just see how it goes? Do you think that would be safe? My cuts are pretty clean now too, but there is some dust.And yesterday even a tiny shaving too, which I used.There are no shavings today on this cut, just dust. I guess, I'm just asking, if I don't use the dust today, I won't end up all messed up again, will I?

 

I know, the only way is to try it , right? Or not?

 

Ugh!! I'm just feeling stable and am soon getting ready for cut 2!! and don't want to make any waves!! Right or wrong!

 

Thanks again!

[[Ju...]]

My guess is it was just your time to get your 'hit'.  It sounds like you've now experienced a hit and now you're experiencing stabilization.  See, that wasn't too, too, bad was it?  It's no fun to have to go through this, no doubt.  But we can come out on the other side of a cut and feel ok, even during our taper if we just don't rush.  I'm really proud of ya.   

 

 

[[...]]

Juliea

 

 

Thank you so much for your support!! It truly means a lot to me!! I feel like crying! Tears of joy!

 

Thank you.

 

Yes, it's scary at times, and it seems long and it sucks..but maybe in the end, it's not so bad. Like you say. So, far,so good.. Just listen to your body and take it slow...At first, when I first posted here I had no idea what method to use. I was thinking c/o to Valium and all kinds of things. I just wanted it to end. Fast.

 

But you helped me just calm down and go direct taper. Old fashion cut and hold. Take time...

 

I've got the glass cylinder and all the gear. I've got the Valium and Vistrial and Benadrly. Just in case.

 

But I really just want to keep moving forward with the .0625 direct cuts..Slow and steady. Just like you did.

 

Thanks for saying your proud of me! That really means a lot. Because so many family members and friends don't truly understand what we're going through. They just don't. Even when they mean well..The'll never know until they enter hell like us. Like you did. And how you made it out.

 

 

Hopefully, I can just continue on the path this way. I really don't want to mess around with the V ( or anything else) if I can.

 

 

For what it's worth, I ate the dust today..but it was a very clean cut, no flakes or scapts.Just tiny dust. And I think the real answer was, that it's been day 7 now ( day 4 since WD's began) and it's now that I got used to this first cut.

smitten.gif

Thanks Juliea!!!

[[...]]

Ha! Sorry I don't know how to drag over the little heart smiley face!! I mean it right back at you!!

[[Ju...]]

You are very welcome!  This is why I'm still here.  I was so scared when I first came here.  I was so benzo sick that my cognition was way off and I could not for the life of me post on the board.  I got severe anxiety just trying to write up a post.  I didn't know the difference between interdose withdrawals and tolerance withdrawals and I had no clue that the symptoms I'd been having were Xanax related.  I didn't even know that Klonopin was a benzo, for goodness sake.

 

I studied this forum from top to bottom and luckily ran into two really cool ladies who helped me make sense of what was happening to me.  They taught me about the .0625mg cut and also taught me how to use a pill cutter.  I learned everything I know from reading this forum.  It's the least I can do to help you and I'm happy to help.  If I can help make your journey easier, this gives me a great deal of joy.

 

I put a lot of faith in the recovery stories I read and I chose to believe the same thing would happen to me.  I never lost sight of my ability recover from this, even in my darkest hours.

 

Even though I was dedicated to taper, I daydreamed about "quick fixes".  I had to resist the urge not to cold turkey or rush my taper the entire 9-months.  I read that wanting to rush is a withdrawal symptom and I believe this was true in my case. 

 

After a while, I began to not fear the withdrawal symptoms.  I came to expect them and accepted them.  It was like, ok here they are again .... I'm familiar with this feeling ... It happened last week .... And I'm still here .... I didn't die .... If it didn't kill me last week it's not going to kill me this week.  And honestly by the time I got really accustomed to the feelings that withdrawal caused, everything got easier.  My anxiety level went down.  And with less anxiety, I actually felt better and could tolerate everything much easier.  And then ..... It was all over!   

 

 

[[...]]

Well, you are an angel!

 

Thank you so very much.

 

 

Ok, about to take my last .19 cut of the day..and so far today NO WD'S!! Woo-Hoo!

 

 

Until tomorrow my friend, have a good night!!

 

 

[[Ra...]]

Juliea is fabulous isn't she?  I'm going to try my taper 'Juliea' style too 

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

Well, looks like I spoke too soon...had a bad day today. Feel "benzo flu"..Don't feel too good at all. Been nervous and jumpy and also this "flu" thing. This is day 8 for my first cut , as you know. And I cant believe it. I thought I was over the hump ( at least for my first cut). Guess not.

 

I haven't up dosed. But felt like doing it. I still have my .19 cut left ( I took my .25 with the dust again about 1 half hour ago, feel ok, not great)..

 

Feel like saying I quit and going for the V c/o! But I at least wanted to get through a week of my first cut!!

 

Ugh!! Any ideas?

 

Started feeling bad late last night too, after I posted, I got a weird quick mini panic attack, right out of the blue..Was fine all day..then bam!!

 

I just took some deep breaths and turned off the tv ( it was late 12 mid, I'm usually in bed by then but I felt so good and as if I had made it through my first cut, I was staying up!) But then I slept and was ok. This morning WD's about a (1) then just feeling bad all day..not quiet right. In fact this is the worst I've felt since my WD's startedSaturday ( 5 days ago) felt bad Sat, sun , then Monday better. Tues was best yet, thought I was all clear. Then today ( and late last night) BAM!

 

It's like you said , it's even hard to write this post now...

 

Any thoughts?...

[[...]]

I had fish last night ( salmon) and took an Aspirin? Maybe that did it? Could it be the dust is throwing me off? It's only day three of me using the powder ( and yesterday was a clean cut)..

 

What could it be?

[[...]]

I also have been taking 250 mg of Mag and 1000mg of C for the past week too..maybe thats doing it..I'm stoping now.

[[Ju...]]

This is what can be so maddening about benzo withdrawal.  It's sometimes not a linear process.  We can have good days and not so good days while tapering.  I would not throw in the towel because of this and I definitely would not up my dose, if I were in your shoes.  I'm not sure about the aspirin or magnesium, (they are usually very benign) , but this is why I didn't add anything to the mix early on in my taper.  I didn't want to have something new in the mix that I didn't know how I would respond to and then blame getting hit on those substances, when it was probably just withdrawal causing the symptoms.  In fact, I didn't get hung up on foods I ate as being the culprit either, I chalked pretty much everything up to withdrawal during my taper.

 

It's not unusual for a person tapering Xanax to not be stable on day 8.  This is why a hold of 10 to 14 days is generally recommended.

 

As far as doing a Valium substitution, this is also still a good possibility for you.  I've come to believe that Valium, for some people, may be a more gentle way to taper off of a benzo.  But I've also come to believe that Valium will probably take far longer to taper than a short-acting benzo.  I believe this has to do with the accumulation factor of Valium due to it's long half-life.  We see people here do very well with Valium, but as they approach the low doses, their tapers must be slowed down to a crawl to remain functional.  I want you to know this up front.  I would use this information to weigh my decision about transitioning to Valium.  Most of the folks who taper Valium who post in the Valium Support thread, titrate their Valium using either milk or pharm-grade liquid Valium.

 

Try not to let this get you down.  I believe you will stabilize.  I had some cuts that hit me late in the hold too.  It goes with the territory.  I'd keep it in my mind that all of this is temporary.  I'd strongly resist the urge to up dose too.  I hope you have a much better day today.  Here's a hug              

 

 

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

Thanks for the hug! Well, today, of course, NOW I feel great. And I want you to know I did not up dose last night. So, I guess it wasn't so, so, bad as to make me do that. However, it was day 8 of my first cut, and I had already had 3 or 4 days of WD's. So, I thought I was in the clear.But yesterdays WD's were the worst I've had in the whole 8 days! Isn't it supposed to mellow as the cut progresses?

 

I still think a lot of this has to do with the fact that I'm taking this junk everyday now. When I never used to. Ever. Maybe I still would get "interdose Withdrawals" however, they would be like, 24 hours apart. Because, I only took it one time , and only 4 days a week. At least then I had , half a life! Now, I get WD's every 6 hours, and take this junk everyday!!

 

It sucks. I was better before, I think...Case in point..Right now, I have NO desire to take my pill. None. I feel fine. It's been 16 hours since my last night dose. If this was the (old days) I would just go about my day and night and, then tomorrow, I'm sure I'd feel something, and then I'd take it. And it would be 1mg and all at once. But at least I could have a life for about 24 hours, with out feeling "chained" to this every 6 hours dose schedule!

 

So, I don't know? I took a walk today and spent about 20 mins outside. I feel like working out etc..Maybe this is me getting used to the cut. I don't know. Do you think me "eating the crumbs and dust" the past 3 days somehow added to this? Maybe I'm getting more now (then I was before) and it's trowing me out of whack? Because I've only been using the dust and crumbs the past 3 days, then boom worst day yet!? Before I never did.

 

Yeah, I'm still trying to hold to the cut and not c/o yet...I don't want to, but yesterday was bad.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

[[...]]

What is a "daily taper"? Is that when you some how remove a tiny bit each day and go forward like that? I can't seem to find out what it is on here..I think you may have to use the liquid method, right? Then draw a drop out each day?

 

Maybe that may work for me..Rather then cutting all at once and then dealing with the hit every week. Maybe just taking a crumb or a drop out each day would be smoother?

 

If that's even how it's done..I don't know?

[[Ju...]]

That's right, the daily taper is done by taking a tiny bit out of the dose, every day with occasional built in holds.  The people who do this say that it's easier on their system because instead of getting hit by a cut, they very slowly ease off of the medication.  I didn't do this, but I've watched the people doing this and they seem to do well. 

 

You can also do a daily taper using Xanax.  I know one or possibly two buddies who are doing this right now.  The first thing I would do if I wanted to switch to a daily reduction is I'd drop my Xanax into some water inside a glass container with a tight lid.  The measurement of the water is not important at this stage but I'd use the equivalent of about a cup and a half of water.  Then I would shake the Xanax water mixture up and very quickly divide the liquid up into 4 equal glass containers, (these would be my 4 doses for the day).  The idea is to liquify our dose first and allow our bodies to get accustomed to this new delivery system.  Many people report that when first going from a dry dose to a liquid dose, this feels like a cut to their body.  So they do not reduce their dose during this time period, (same as with a regular hold 8-14 days).

 

Then after the body is accustomed to the liquid delivery system, this is the time that careful measurements are important, because this is when we begin to actually draw down or reduce the amount of medication we are taking. 

 

If I wanted to try this, this is how I would prep myself to get ready.  Then I would call upon one of the more experienced daily reduction folks to help me figure out what a good daily reduction would be.  I know that SG57 has posted on this thread.  He's much more knowledgable about this than me.

 

We have 2 folks who are doing the daily reduction on the Xanax thread.  MrsALW and Kantu.  However, neither of these folks post as often as they once did but you could leave some questions for them there.  We have so many options in getting off of this stuff.  Thank goodness! 

[[...]]

Thanks Juliea

 

Nice to here from you.. Well, I don't know yet..I just gave in and took my .25 ( first dose) and feel smooth and fine. Today is day 9 into my first cut. I want to hold and see how today goes, and then maybe Friday or Saturday, try another cut. I'm willing to give this  at least one more shot. It's been about 2 and a half weeks since I've been on a dose of .75 or higher ( highest was 1,5 for Doc), Before two weeks ago, I was on .5 a day with two days a week at .75. And then before that a month of .5 but everyday ( because of some BB's advice) then from Jan 8 2014 back about 6 months, july 2013 was on 1mg only 4 days a week.

 

So, I'm trying to at least try and get back to my .5 a day ( it has only been about 2 weeks). And maybe, I'll just try and cut down to that. The other thing is, I seem to have most problems in the Mid afternoon ( nights are ok, except for yesterday) and my "new" evening dose of .25 ( now .19 cut) is only about 2 1/2 weeks old. Before that I would just take.25 and hold about 8-9 hours and take the last .25 and sleep. It was ok. So, what I thinking is, I know we said I should "round robin" my cuts, but I kind of feel I should get this last ( most recent) dose off first. Or at least cut it in half to .1250..And then maybe I can cut my Morning dose by .0625.

 

I just feel like, since it's the most recent "add on dose" that maybe, it would be the easiest to get rid of first?

[[Ju...]]

You can try cutting which ever dose you feel comfortable cutting.  Not everyone does the round robin thing.  For example, I've known some people who were hooked on Xanax for sleep.  They kept their nightly dose as the biggest chunk of their dosing for that purpose.  And then others who swore by keeping the level of their benzo as even as possible during the day, to help keep their blood levels even.  It's so individual.  I would do what I thought was best for me.  Since I took it all at night, I'm so not great with helping with dosing.

 

Good to see you today too.  I'm glad you're feeling better.   

[[...]]

Hey Juliea

 

Did you ever take a Benadryl or Vistaril if you got WD's? Or do you know of any people who have and it's helped?

I dont mean to take a Benadryl or Vistaril in place of your dose, but to use it in between doses to curb WD's?

 

I tried the Benadryl once, just one .25 pill. I took my first .25 of X and waited about 5 hours and then I took a Benadrly, and it was great. No WD's, I felt a little sleepy, but then felt great and "normal"..However, I then blew it and 4 hours later (when the Benadrlyl wore off) I took HALF a .25 Xanax ( not my full dose)..MAYDAY!! Bad reaction..and I ended up up dosing to .5 to "stabilize".

 

This was about 3 weeks ago ( also during my big up dosing crazy doctor week)..And I've made a rule , that I will only try out a new "test" ONCE every week or so, not everyday!

 

Anyway, I sort of liked the reaction from Benadryl, just don't use it in place of a dose. And yesterday was tough, so I wanted to try something...I have this Vistaril here too, but I don't want to touch it yet...

 

Have you heard anything about this?

 

[[Ju...]]

I tried both Vistaril and Benadryl at bedtime, right after I finished my taper.  They both seemed to help me with sleep a little bit.  I've seen lots of buddies use these two meds.  And like you say, to help but not to use as a replacement for a dose. 

[[...]]

Can I ask, how was the Vistaril? I have not taken it yet. My dose is .25..Did it make you really sleepy? Does the sleep thing go away? Sometimes, I don't really like the "sleepy" effect. Makes me feel really "drugged" like I'll OD or something. In fact, that's one of the main reasons, I haven't touched the Valuim since a few weeks back. I dosed wrong, and didn't take it with my X ( even half of it) and it made me REALLY drugged sleepy ( this was only on .3mg too!) and I waited for 1 1/2 hour to get stable and nothing. So, I took a .25 of X and bam! twenty mins in, felt fine. But I was so, shook up, I took the other .25 of X 20 mins later! This was also done during my crazy Doc week ( about 2 weeks ago now!)

 

 

[[Ju...]]

Vistaril is supposed to be a stronger version of Benadryl.  Frankly, I couldn't tell the difference between the two meds.  I only took them when I was in bed and hoping to fall asleep. I believe in those first few months off of Xanax, anxiety was the culprit in keeping me from sleeping.  I'd toss and turn and try not to clock watch all night.  So I 'think' they may have helped me a bit with the anxiety that was keeping me from sleeping.  You might ask your question on the Other Medications board to see what others who are tapering have as far as experiences.

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

I asked about Vistaril and Benadryl on the other thread. We'll see what happens.

 

I may also ask about a daily taper for Xanax as well..

 

but I'm going with the cuts for now..(hopefully at least until I can knock out my .19 dose). Wanted to ask you, I may try and get to the market this Saturday. I don't have to drive, I'll be driven, it's not far from here either, but I haven't really gone "out" since last Friday with the Doc. I've taken walks and stuff and it's been great, but, you know..

 

Anyway, do you think I'd mess things up if I took my .25 and my mid day .25 all at once? Then come back and take my final .19 like I always do? I'm not up dosing really, but just taking the other .25 about 4 hours earlier then I have for the last 2 weeks.

 

I'd only do it that day, then it's back to normal. And then Sunday, I was going to cut my night dose to .1250...I want to do it now, or even by Sat but I may try and "go out" to the market and don't want to make any changes until after that...

 

 

What do you think?

[[Ju...]]

You can try taking a bigger dose to help you with your market shopping.  I doubt this would have any long term effect on you since your dose for the day would stay the same.

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

I've been asking around about how do do a Xanax "daily taper"..Still unclear to me. Maybe more answers will come soon.

Meantime, I'm still plugging away with my first cut. Had a good day yesterday then today was not too great. Not as bad as Wednesday  (day 8 of cut) but not as nice as yesterday (day 9). Also, really have to push my self to take that last Xanax ( my cut dose) the past two days. I feel tired and ready to just sleep. Have NO desire to take it. Yet , I do , just to stick with the plan...But, as I've said, I've only been on this extra late dose for 12 days now ( before that it was my crazy doc up dose week, but the month before it was only .5, .25 twice a day, and I was fine. If this was two weeks ago, I would just sleep and deal with it tomorrow. And not take my "new" dose at night..or take it "as needed"..

 

If feel like I'm ADDING to this! By taking this "new" dose ( that I did need to get stable from my up dose for the doc etc) but now I feel it's over kill.

 

I should just be doing a cut to my "main" dose of .25 2 x a day. And getting on with it. That's how it would have been just two weeks ago! In fact, now I feel, like I'm maybe getting a tolerance built up to this new dose!! Just six weeks ago, I never took this crap every single day! Now I do. Because of some BB advice. And I think I might be digging a hole and making it "worse"!

 

Sorry to rant, but I sort of feel , I'm kind of fresh on this ( at least with the late added dose, and only 4 or 5 weeks into everyday dosing) I'm thinking, would my taper method be the same? If I had just started taking Xanax at .5 ( occasionally .75) for 5  weeks?

 

Would I be getting the same tapering advice, If I came here and said I was only on it for 5 weeks ? at .5 or .75 dose? Because, that's kind of how I feel. I feel like I've been on more Xanax more times SINCE i've tried to quit 5 weeks ago then I did during the 6 months I was taking it!! And it's making me sick!!

 

Maybe we can plan it more as though I've only been on a daily dose of .5 or .75 even, for 5 or six weeks, and work up a taper that way.

 

Because, honestly, I almost feel now, like I need a taper, from my taper!!

 

AHHH!!

 

[[...]]

Juliea,

 

Hope your well!

 

Just an update, well, I made another cut last night. I did it on my last dose ( the one I cut before and my most recent addition), so as of yesterday (day 11) I cut another .0625, now my final dose of the night is .1250. I've now cut the .25 in half.

 

We'll see how it goes. So, now my doses are .25 Morn, .25 late day, and .1250 late night ( around 10pm) final dose..

 

I still feel the urge to not even take the last one, but I'm just sticking with the plan, I guess. Maybe, better safe then sorry.

 

I've been learning a bit about a daily xanax taper from SG57, but I'm hanging with the cuts for now. I at least want to get back to my original .5 dose, and then we'll see if I need to change .

 

It's just weird, but since last wednesday, I don't feel ANY urge to take that last dose but I do anyway. In fact, yesterday I only wanted my first dose of .25, I just felt relaxed and sleepy. If I was just random on this ( before I followed any "plan") I would have just taken my .25 and then gone to sleep, and dealt with it the next day..I'd probably end up taking my full dose again. But, maybe it's not so bad to do it that way? Or is it?

 

I mean, I am listing to my body. And if it's tired, and sleepy, and mellow from just one .25 of Xanax..Should I just leave it at that for the day? That's what I would have done in the old days, like 5 weeks ago! I just looked on my calendar and my weeks usually went one day .5, then the next day.5 again, then next day .75, then .5 for 2 days in a row , etc..It shook out to be .5 for five days of the week , with a up dose of .25  ( .75 total) 2 days a week..And I was fine. That was how I went along.

 

Maybe I can get back to that? Should I? It's almost like nowadays, I'm forcing my self awake, just to take the last dose! Something, I NEVER would have done even when I was really using. I would have just slept. I'm not talking about going "cold turkey" and I do believe in tapering. But,  for me, not for everybody, I may try and go for this. If I can.

 

What do you think?

 

Would I mess things up if I don't have a urge ( or any WD's) to "skip" one of the doses, sometimes? Because, I'm taking this junk 3 x a day now, and some days STILL get WD's!! It's not like, I haven't taken any and then get WD's. I'm taking it AND STILL getting WD's sometimes!! So, it's kind of like what's the point?

 

But, if I feel fine off less of a dose one day, should I just go with it? Leave it at that? Then if I feel symptoms the next day, fine, I'll go back to what I was on..not a up dose, just the dose you had last used? Does that make sense? Could that also be a way to help 'heal or train" your body into expecting less once in a while?

 

Any thoughts? I'm just trying to work it all out!