Help with starting liquid taper from Xanax and adding Valium

[[Ju...]]

I know you desperately want to get back to .5mg.  However, you had some difficult withdrawal symptoms when you first made a cut down from .75.  I 'suspect' that if you rapidly discontinued your dose to get to .5mg, that this might produce some uncomfortable symptoms again.  If you decide to do this, I'd be ready to roll with the symptoms until they resolve and not dose correct back again.  Honestly, in the mist of a taper, I'm not a fan of experimenting unless symptoms are unmanageable.  I imagine if you cut rapidly, that the effects of the cuts could possibly take some time to show up.  This is what I wouldn't want, to be possibly blindsided by something I'd done days before.  When we feel good, we want to keep this feeling going during our taper, if possible.  If it were me, I would not cut faster because I felt well, I'd continue cutting as planned because the cuts were manageable for me.

 

Also, I believe I would try to move myself away from the feeling that I didn't need a dose just because I didn't feel like I needed it at the time.  I can promise you, there were nights I felt like I didn't need Xanax for sleep, during my taper.  I could have slept without it.  But if I had not dosed I am certain I would have paid with the consequences of not dosing. 

 

Part of what we're trying to accomplish during a taper is learning to deal with the feelings of why we took the medicine in a natural way.  So when panic or anxiety strikes, we don't reach for a dose unless it's our regular dosing time.  This is why a taper is very valuable as a learning experience in how to deal with less of the medicine in our systems on our way to becoming free of the medicine.  We're trying to trick our brain, by removing tiny bits of medicine, hoping that our brain won't notice the amount we reduced.  If things were going well for me, I would continue doing what I was doing that was helping to keep me on an even keel.

[[...]]

Hi Juliea,

 

Thanks for the post. Well, I am now DAY 6! into my SECOND cut! Yeah! I feel good. On my first cut, it seemed the symptoms showed up three days in, then I was feeling it for 3 days, then on day 8, wham! got hit the worst, but I calmed down and then went until day 11 and made this cut. This time the pattern was a bit different, I did a  cut, then the next day, I got symptoms, not too bad but they were there, then it calmed on day 2 but on day 3, they were back, and I got the "body ache" too. Also couldn't sleep and got the adrenalin rush too ( but did manage to sleep) I'd never had that one before! Anyway, that happened on day 4 and 5 ( last night into this cut, today day 6, so far so good...

 

Well, I'm just going to keep on cutting..we'll see how it goes when I hit the big .5, but so, far..I'm doing ok.

 

I'm now at .25 (around 1:30 pm) then .25 around (6:30 or 7:30 pm), then the cut dose now at .1250 ( a .25 cut in half).

 

 

Yes, thinking about what you said, about not wanting to take it but doing it anyway..When I last wrote that to you, that I did not want to take a dose, I felt fine, but the last two nights, I'm glad I had that final dose! So, I guess, I should stick with the plan.

 

I'll work with it, if it works with me , you know?! I'll give it the time, IF all this pays off in the end! I only felt like, maybe I could cut a little faster because, my final dose was only a two weeks old, that and the other reason being, I didn't used to dose everyday, only six weeks ago, and now I do..That was the only reason I thought maybe I could "nip it in the bud".

 

But then I'll have a night like the last two and feel terrible and really WANT that last dose ( I almost up dosed, but I thought about you and you saying not to and I made it)..

 

So, as long as I'm making progress, I guess it's not so bad..

 

Maybe the only way out is through?

 

I hope to cut again next Tuesday ( day 11)...worried about coming up on day 8 though! Last time that was bad,,but who knows, maybe the worst ( for this cut) has passed, or is passing now? I don't know?

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ju...]]

When the crap almost hit the fan and you chose not to up dose, I believe you did yourself a huge favor.  Whatever it was you went through without up dosing, remember that.  Don't forget that you made it through the situation and came out on the other side.  Believe me, you are stronger for doing that and you are learning how to deal with the symptoms of a taper without reaching for an unscheduled pill.  When we finish our tapers, we won't be able to reach for a Xanax again, (or at least I certainly won't).  So we might as well begin to learn this lesson during our tapers.  It was a confidence building experience for me to go through a wave of difficult symptoms and not reach for my Xanax.  I'm sure this was also a confidence builder for you.  Good for you! 

 

As far as getting hit again on day 8, I'd be very surprised if this happened again this cut.  I had one cut where all hell broke loose.  But that never happened but that one time and it was during Christmas of 2012 and I was terribly stressed.  I believe it happened because my stress was off of the charts because of not being able to go home for Christmas.

 

Also, when I was on a higher dose, I worried about how I would manage when I got to a certain benchmark in my taper.  Well, the benchmarks, (the 1mg, .75mg, .50mg, .25mg, THE JUMP), came and went and I felt no different on those lower dose benchmarks than I had on 3mg of Xanax.  In fact I felt better.  I felt better because I took my time getting there.

 

Yep, the only way out is through.  And my personal favorite, if you're going through hell, keep going.

 

Keep going JACD. 

 

 

[[...]]

Juliea

 

 

Thank you for saying that. It means a lot!

 

That's funny you should bring up the "benchmark" doses. I've been thinking about that myself..I'm thinking, "ok, if I make it through this cut, my where should I do my next cut?".

 

Right now, BOTH of my cuts have been on the same dose, my last dose of the night. I just felt better doing it that way, probably because it's my most recent new added dose ( just 2 or 3 weeks old)..

 

However, for my 3rd cut..I'm not so sure?  Maybe I'll try it in the same place ( but some times I need that night dose...) Or maybe , I'll do the Morning dose? But then I think, it's the first dose after no dose for the longest amount of time..15 hours..so, maybe I need that? That would leave the Mid /late afternoon dose?...

 

I may cut that one next?...it might be the "safest" maybe..but up until this most recent cut, my nights were no problem..but now 6 days into cut 2 ( also at night, 2 cuts,same dose) Sleep has been tougher..., before this the days were tough and the nights easy..now it's switched a bit.

 

Any thoughts?

[[Ju...]]

I'd move more towards trying to even out my doses when I decided to cut, rather than trying to chop one off completely.  I believe your brain will interpret this as less of a change and will kick up less wd sxs.  I still like the round robin approach of each dose getting a turn at being cut, although the pattern of cuts may not be linear, no two doses would be cut in consecutive taper periods, I like that idea.  Only at the very bottom of the taper would a dose totally disappear, because I'd be left with only doses of .0625.  Only then would a dose be totally eliminated if I were tapering multiple doses.  In other words, I'd keep doing what was working until the very end and then I'd jump off that last .0625mg dose. 

[[...]]

Hi Juliea,

 

Yeah, that's how I'm seeing it too. I just went 2 cuts in a row on the same dose only because, it was my most recent add on dose, and only because, it felt right..some of my first .0625 cuts were getting large towards the end and almost looked like .1250 cuts, so I just made it official, and went to .1250.

 

As of day 7, I'm feeling good! But, yes, next cut, I think will not be on the same dose. I'm leaning toward cutting my Mid/late afternoon dose next, by .0625. I just want to keep that morning first dose a full .25 for now, as that's the dose that comes 15-16 hours after the night dose. It's my longest wait and I don't want to touch it just yet.

 

But for the cut after that, I'll probably cut the morning dose by .0625.

 

Hey Juliea, Is it 'normal" or "good" to take a dose, without having any WD's and then feel, nothing after your dose? In other words, you felt fine before your dose, and then you dosed ( just to stay on the plan) but then you feel the same as before. I hope that means your 'stable". Because, that's how I've been feeling as of late.

 

Thanks again

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

 

I want to ask you, I was just looking at your history..It seems like you were dropping .25 every week for the first month of your taper. It looks like in about 6 weeks you dropped 1mg and then another .25 mg. All in 6 weeks! Wow! 

 

That seems super fast!! I mean, I'd love to do that myself but, damn! I don't know?! LOL! Was it painful!? Did you flip out at all?

 

How did you feel? Was it "manageable"? It looks like after your first 7 weeks , you slowed down and then went with .0625 cuts until the end..

 

But it seems like you cut almost half of your 3 mg dose in the first 2 months! Wow!  Was that ok?

 

Can I do that?

 

Should I do that?!! Ha!

 

Please, do tell....

[[Ju...]]

When you see those big .25mg chunks I was tapering, keep in mind that the percentage that I was dropping of my total dose for the day, at that time, was in the 10% range.  Remember I started with 3mg of Xanax.  So a .25mg cut was not a substantial percentage, (greater than 10%), of my dose for the day at that point in my taper.  However, when I got to 2.5mg, I continued to drop .25mg, from 2.5mg to 2mg.  During this phase of my taper, I was cutting slightly more than 10%.  In hindsight, I would have tapered .125mg from 2.5 to 2 and begun the .0625mg cut when I got to 2mg.  Most of this occurred prior to me joining BB's and learning how to properly taper.  I was destabilized from several of those large cuts, (most probably the .25's from 2.5 to 2), and spent a lengthy time confined to my bed, until I finally re-stabilized.  So no, I certainly would not recommend that you do what I did at your dose, because the percentages would be totally different.  And also, given that I did only 2 cuts that were most probably too high, I was darned lucky I was able to re-stabilize and that my entire taper wasn't derailed.  A couple of aggressive cuts can throw a taper off really bad.  Some folks don't recover like I did and I always encourage folks not to make 1 or 2, too aggressive cuts because they may find themselves retracing their taper from a higher dose.  I spent the time in bed rather than up dosing because I'm stubborn that way, lol.  I felt overstimulated if I left the safe haven of my bedroom, so I opted to ride out my symptoms there.  That was the only place I felt comfortable and able to ride out of the weeds, I'd gotten myself into.  It wasn't horrible, but it was enough to let me know that I should really respect the strength of a crumb of Xanax.

 

As far as not feeling the effects of a dose, I believe this might be common during a taper.  Remember, I was 'lights out' as soon as I dosed, so all I know is that I continued to sleep.  However, as soon as I took my last .0625mg dose, I slept ---- but the first night I had no dose to take, no sleep came and insomnia was a problem for about 3-months. 

[[...]]

Juliea

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me! I'm glad your here too!

 

How did you overcome your insomnia?

 

Also, thinking about what you said about precentages etc..Do you think my .0625 cuts are in line with my dosage?

Should I be taking .0312 cuts? Or , maybe when I get down to .5? What do you think?

 

 

I'll stick with my .0625 cuts for now. I'm hanging in..I get what you mean about staying in your bedroom and riding it out. That's my favorite place to be as well. Especially after a day like I had today. My symptoms are actually ok it's just I got into a argument with , my mother, of all people. She's trying to understand but, she can't totally, of course.

 

And it was one of these arguments when she's going on about "her" needs too....

 

 

It's like, sorry I inconvenienced you..BUT I'M SICK!!

 

Ugh...but other then her drama and BS, so far, I've been ok..walked around today went to a few stores etc...

 

Pretty good for day 8 of my second cut...but, the night is still here..and the day aint over yet...but so far , so good.

 

Thanks again for sharing your story.

[[Ju...]]

I would continue to do the .0625mg cut, as long as it was tolerable.  I've seen some people who switched to cutting .03125 as they got lower in dose, but just as many who were able to continue cutting .0625 until they were free.  It's a very individual thing who can cut what size Mg chunk and remain in the manageable symptom category.  I'd play it by ear and continue what I was doing that works, until it no longer worked and then consider revising.

 

I dealt with my insomnia with supplements and a few prescription medications.  Of the supplements, I tried Magnesium, Melatonin, L-Tryptophan, SunTheanine and Valerian, (all individually, no two in the same night).  I still have pretty full bottles of Magnesium, L-Tryptophan and Valerian, (I noticed no help from these).  But Melatonin helped a great deal as did the SunTheanine.  I no longer need to take the SunTheanine but still take Melatonin on occasion.  As far as prescriptions, I tried Vistaril, (hydroxyzine), and Doxepin.  I tried a very low dose of Doxepin, (3.3mg), and this didn't help me sleep.  The Vistaril helped, but caused a fleeting, anxious feeling,  just as I was about to drop off to sleep.  The most helpful supplement for me was Melatonin.

 

At 3-months off something changed for the better and I started mostly sleeping on my own again.  I still take Melatonin on occasion, especially when I travel and very rarely I may take Vistaril, (I've taken about 8 capsules in 10 months).  I do sleep on Vistaril, but I don't like the wave of anxiousness it causes as I'm just dropping off to sleep.  I didn't take any of these meds or supps during my taper.

 

You will have plenty of time to support your Mom after you have completed your taper.  And you're right, no one gets what we're going through unless they've been through this process.  Take care of you right now, that's number one.

 

I'm so happy that you're hanging in there.  Good job JACD!     

[[...]]

Thanks Juliea!

 

 

Yes, I feel good today ( day 9 into my second cut, look out! Woo-hoo!)..

 

Thank you again for your kind words and support as always! Your the best!

 

God willing, I can make cut 3 on Tuesday or Wed this week ( it would be day 11 or 12)..I'm going to cut my Mid/late afternoon dose.

 

So, you said you never took supplements on your taper.I was taking some Mag and Vitamin C, but last week had a bad day and stopped taking it, then early into my 2nd cut , this past week, I started back on the C because I heard it can help with sleep and the "brain Zaps"..Seems to work, for me..just 1000 mg C. But that's all.

 

I tried Benadryl last week ( I have a new rule, I only will "test" something ONCE per cut period, and only when I'm stable from the cut) So, last weeks "test" was Benadryl..It kind of made me nervous and then tired, and then I guess no WD symptoms for about an hour, but then the WD's came back, and I took my next Xanax dose and was fine..

 

So, so much for the Benadryl! Didn't do anything really.

 

Next weeks "test" will be .25 of Vistaril, unfortunately its a capsule not a pill, I would have taken half a pill .12 if I could but I can't...I'll probably do it on Tuesday ( if I feel good)..I just want to see if any of this junk helps. But I want to test it only when I'm stable, not when I'm in acute WD!!

 

 

[[...]]

Juliea

 

 

Getting nervous about something, is it true that there can be as much as a 20% difference in potency of generic Xanax?

 

So, we could be getting 20% less or even 20% MORE?!!

 

OMG! I hope this is not the case.

[[Ju...]]

Juliea

 

 

Getting nervous about something, is it true that there can be as much as a 20% difference in potency of generic Xanax?

 

So, we could be getting 20% less or even 20% MORE?!!

 

OMG! I hope this is not the case.

 

Hey!

 

I've used so many different brands of generic Xanax over the years, that it isn't funny.  Plus, my drugstore switched generics on me right in the middle of my taper.  I could tell absolutely no difference between one to the other.  I don't believe that 20% number is correct.  If there is a variation allowed, it would be WAY less than that, in my opinion.

 

Try not to worry about this.  I sure didn't.  Just call me Miss Experience.   

 

 

[[...]]

Hey Juliea!

 

Thank you for that info. Ok, I'll try not to stress about that one...

 

But, here's a new one for you...I've got a skin rash..had it for a while, comes and goes. Dr. gave me a cream called

Clotrimazole and Betamethasone Dipropionate cream USP.

 

But, I'm worried that it's a Antibiotic? and I don't want it to mess with me...I started putting it on again last night and today and my symptoms are going through the roof!!

 

Maybe I'm just imagining it? Today is day 11 into my second cut and until my skin rash flair up ( 2 days ago) I was feeling fine and ready to make cut 3, but now I'm panicky..

 

Help! Is it the cream or am I just panicking because the rash flared up? I even have a appointment to see the doc tomorrow, but I don't want to ( and may cancel) ..my rash seems to be slightly going away, but now my WD symptoms are off the charts!!?

 

Is it the cream or me?

[[Ju...]]

You are not imagining an increase in symptoms.  I googled your cream and it's a topical steroid.  There are many posts about buddies reacting to steroids, both topical and oral.  Perserverance, a member I trust implicitly, has done a lot of scientific research about benzos.  She is of the opinion that these are medicines to be avoided during withdrawal, if possible, because they interact with our HPA axis.

 

Go to the search box and type --- topical steroids.  You can read the different threads.  You're not alone in this reaction.

 

Skin problems are frequently a topic of discussion for quite a few buddies.  I also had a reaction that came out in my skin during my taper.  My skin developed what I called, alligator skin, where I had rough patches on various parts of my body.  I also had one cut where my right eye and eyebrow itched really bad.  This was the cut that happened during Christmas of 2012.  It sounds like it wouldn't be too bad, but it was my absoulute worst symptom because the itch could not be relieved by scratching.  This only lasted about 4-days and never recurred.

 

I believe these types of symptoms are related to our nerves that have been tamped down by the benzos, firing back up as we taper down.  Or possibly our immune system attempting to readjust.  Did this rash suddenly appear while you've been taking Xanax or is it something you've dealt with pre-benzo?

 

I would imagine that if I stopped using the steroid cream, things will begin to settle down symptom wise.  I'd try some alternatives for the rash, (calamine lotion perhaps?).  I'd also open a post on Withdrawal support, (during your taper), and ask the other buddies about the rash and ask for suggestions they used to help and see what kind of experiences others have had and what they used to treat the rash.

 

I'd also try my best to distract myself from all of this taper business and do anything and everything that was comforting to me to get my mind off of all of this.  You're going to be fine.  All of this will pass.  I'd definitely hold my dose right now until things settled down.  This will pass.  Sorry this happened JACD!

[[...]]

Juliea

 

Thanks for the post. Well, since I last wrote I have been using the cream, and my reactions have mellowed quiet a bit ( as has my rash). I don't use quiet as much as I used to. For example yesterday ( day 3 of me using the cream) my reaction was minimal.

 

In fact, I thought maybe it was all in my head, like maybe just the stress of my rash flair up was flipping me out, not the cream.

But now your saying it's the cream? Uh-oh! I'm supposed to use it for another week..The rash is going away, but I really wanted to make a cut by now. in fact I was ready and then the rash flared up and then the cream sent me into WD's. Today is day 13 into my second cut and I was ready to cut around day 10 or 11, but then this rash/cream drama began.

 

Ugh!  Should I hold? or go for it? My symptoms were mellow yesterday with the cream, but todays a bit iffy..not as bad as the first day I posted, but here...

 

It sucks because I do need this cream. And it's working. Yes, I've had the rash before, it comes and goes, and I'm supposed to put the cream on twice a day, in the past I'd put it on twice a week! So, it never really went away. Then now, during Benzo WD WHAM!! it comes roaring back , and worse then I've ever seen it, and it scared the hell out of me  that was panic too) so, then I started using the cream and then my sxs came back!! But the rash is mellow and going away fast...

 

What to do?

[[...]]

Hey Juliea

 

 

I posted this question in the main form and got some good answers but, what do you think?

 

My RX med is Clotrimazole and Betamethasone Dipropionate cream.

 

Apparently the Clotrimazole part is anti fungal, ( that's 10% per gram of this cream) I've been told by a BB it's not an Antibiotic,

I Googled it and , unless, I'm getting it wrong ( which is very possible in my worried state!) it says it's a Glucocorticoid.

 

Glucocorticoids are supposed to be bad for us..it messes with the Adrenal glands and Cortisol etc.But maybe it's ok? It's unclear to me with my research. Any help trying to figure it out would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Anyway, the other half of my RX cream is Betamethasone Dipropionate (.5 % per gram), that we know is a steroid.

 

And that's bad. That's the part of the cream that stops the pain etc..But, I dont care about that.My rash pain is gone anyway. I'm in more pain now that my WD sxs are going crazy!!

 

I was doing so good too!! Then BAM this crap hits! Jeez!! And all because of a stupid skin cream?!! Really?!!

 

Anyway, I have some OTC cream that doesn't have the Steroid in it. It's Lotrimin ( it has only 1% of Clotrimazole in it, not 10%, and no steroid)

 

My question is should I try that? But is Clotrimazole still bad? Is it a Glucocorticoid? I can't tell from Wiki..

 

The other stuff I'm trying to find out is safe is Tolnaftate ( Tinactin)

 

and Terbinafine hydrochloride ( Lamisil ) and Miconazole (Zeasorb powder).

 

I can't tell from Wiki or Google..it's so confusing..

 

Any help and advice would be sooo appreciated!! I was ready to cut!! Then this.

 

 

[[...]]

I found this on Wiki regarding the Clotrimazole.., it's a Anti Fungal type called a Azole, and it's also in a class type called..

 

Imidazoles

 

From Wiki..Antifungal Medication page..

 

Adverse effects

Apart from side-effects like liver damage or affecting estrogen levels, many antifungal medicines can cause allergic reactions in people. For example, the azole group of drugs is known to have caused anaphylaxis.

There are also many drug interactions. Patients must read in detail the enclosed data sheet(s) of the medicine. For example, the azole antifungals such as ketoconazole or itraconazole can be both substrates and inhibitors of

the P-glycoprotein, which (among other functions) excretes toxins and drugs into the intestines.[14] Azole

antifungals also are both substrates and inhibitors of the cytochrome P450 family CYP3A4,[14] causing increased concentration when administering, for example, calcium channel blockers, immunosuppressants, chemotherapeutic drugs,benzodiazepines, tricyclic antidepressants, macrolides and SSRIs.

 

It's that last part that says BENZODIAZEPINES. I don't understand..Are they saying that if you use these Anti Fungal drugs while on Benzo's that it will INCREASE the Benzo? Or will it INHIBIT the Benzo ( and make it stop working?) or have I got it all wrong?

 

I'm not going to touch my Dr's Clotrimazole and Betamethasone Dipropionate cream anymore. Because the Betamethasone Dipropionate part is a Steroid. I've already been on it 2 x a day for 4 days, and hope I haven't done too much damage to my Adrenals. But I want to know if I can use the OTC cream that has 1% Clotrimazole in it. But I can't understand what they are trying to say about it on Wiki...

 

Can you understand what they are saying? Is it safe? Please Help!!

 

Thanks again

 

JACD

[[...]]

It's that last part that says BENZODIAZEPINES. I don't understand..Are they saying that if you use these Anti Fungal drugs while on Benzo's that it will INCREASE the Benzo? Or will it INHIBIT the Benzo ( and make it stop working?) or have I got it all wrong?

 

Good find JACD!  Drugs can interact with each other through increasing or decreasing the amount of liver enzymes that metabolize another drug.  Xanax is metabolized by enzyme CYP450 3A4.  What you have found here is that Clotrimazole inhibits that 3A4 enzyme that the body uses to metabolize xanax.  This means it decreases the amount of that enzyme and this causes you to have more xanax than you normally would.  Your xanax stays around longer.

 

This is a lot better than the opposite situation, i.e., if it increased the amount of 3A4 enzyme.  Then it would make you short on xanax.

 

You may not notice the difference.  The only way to find out is to try it.

 

Drugs and foods can mess with benzo enzymes.  They pay a lot of attention to this stuff at the BDR website, which is where I learned it.  When people have unexplained or unexpected symptoms this is often the cause.  A common one for example is eating broccoli.  Broccoli is a 1A2 inducer.  Also, charbroiled meats is 1A2.  These don't affect xanax because xanax is 3A4.  Basically, for xanax, you want to pay most attention to 3A4 inducers, as they will make you short on xanax.

[[...]]

Hi SG57

 

Hey thanks for the post! So, Clotrimazole inhibits the 3A4 enzyme? And that means Xanax wont be broken down as fast in the liver ( like when you take Grapefruit , right?) So, that means I'll have the feeling of MORE xanax not LESS, correct?

 

If that's the case, then I guess that's a good thing. But, it make's me wonder, since your not actually taking a higher dose of Xanax, yet you may 'feel" like you are, then why wouldn't we all be drinking Grapefruit juice etc, to make the Xanax effect 'seem longer" when tapering? Why would that be a bad thing? So long as your not actually taking a higher dose, why would that be bad, to "trick" your self into thinking it's more , when it's really actually less? Or am I missing something?

 

Anyway, that's a side issue, I just want to know if I can take this crap for my skin, without bugging out!

 

What is the BDR website? And Broccoli and Charbroiled Meats are OK, right?

 

 

The other stuff I'm trying to find out if it's safe is Tolnaftate ( Tinactin)

 

and Terbinafine hydrochloride ( Lamisil ) and Miconazole (Zeasorb powder).

 

I can't tell from Wiki or Google..it's so confusing..

 

Any help and advice would be sooo appreciated!!

 

Thanks again!!

 

[[...]]

Yes it acts like GFJ, except probably not as potent.  GFJ is an inhibitor of both 3A4 and 1A2, so it will affect xanax and most benzos as 3A4 seems very common for drug metabolism.

 

http://www.edhayes.com/startp450.html

 

Good questions, I don't know the answers.  I would guess it is good when there is more xanax around, but eventually it will drop back to normal and that might not be fun.  Also, just does not seem like a good thing for the benzo level to fluctuate.

 

According to the above link broccoli and charred meats should not be a problem for you as they don't affect your enzyme.

 

If you want to find out if a food or medicine might be affecting your benzo level you can go to the above link or google "cpy450 + (the food or med in question)."  The info is out there but scattered everywhere.

 

For example, your meds...

 

telnaftate - not listed

terbinafine - 2D6 inhibitor, no effect on xanax

miconazole - 3A4, 3A5-7 inhibitor, so will slow xanax metabolism

 

So we have a yes, a no, and an I don't know.  You'll need to dig for telnaftate.  There are some interesting ones on the list.  For example, smoking is a 1A2 inducer.  The inducers are the ones you need to watch.

 

BDR is benzodetoxrecovery.com.  Like I said, they pay A LOT of attention to this stuff.

[[...]]

WOW! Thanks SG57!

 

Thanks for the info and the links!! I've got them all printed and saved. Yeah, I see what you mean now. It's good to check..I even bought some St. Johns Wort and NOPE it's a P-450 3A4 inducer! So, so much for that stuff..No way.

 

Just got a call back from my doctor and we had a nice talk, I told him that the Steroid in the cream was making my WD's worse and that it's been giving my skin stretch marks! He was like "very interesting"..Anyway, he said I can try the OTC stuff with Clotrimazole in it and we talked about how it acts like GFJ in the liver but he said it should be alright ( it wont make me feel worse) He then gave me a RX for a powder with Nystatin. He said, it should be safe..

 

He also gave me a new refill of Xanax I asked for but this time .25 pills ( not my regular .5 pills) so it'll be easier to cut them down. He was like "sure buddy, how much do you want!" I asked for 60 a fill...He's cool. Gives me what I want. But still can't believe I'm going through WD's on such a "low dose"..but he's on board now and helping. So that's nice. Now I just got to get rid of the stress of this rash!! I was ready to cut too! But I've been holding until I get this stupid rash drama solved!!

 

Now I just got to check out Nystatin powder and telnaftate. And make sure they are cool. But today, I took a salt bath and just used OTC Lotrimin with 1% Clotrimazole and NO steroid. So, far about 2 hours in, I don't feel like I have MORE Xanax in me..just feel normal. Well, Xanax normal..

 

Thanks again SG57!

[[Ju...]]

Sorry, but I'm MIA.  My area got hit by an ice storm and I still have no power.  Only a cell phone to log in and the keyboard is too small for me to be able to write much.  This too shall pass, JACD.  Will post more when I get power back.  Take care.

[[...]]

Juliea

 

I was wondering what happened to you! Well, I hope your OK, and you get your power back ASAP. I know how that can be, I've been through those black outs back east! Hang on! Thanks for checking in too!

 

I do have one question for you..when you can respond. Today is day 15 into my 2nd cut. I've stopped taking the Steroid cream that was flaring up my sxs two days ago. I was using the cream 2 x a day from Monday until Thursday, Thursday I only put it on once  ( one dose). I just want to ask, when do you think I'd be ready to cut again? Last night ( 24 hours after last Steroid dose) I felt some symptoms flair up. I feel Ok now ( 48 hours after last steroid) but I want to be safe.

 

This Steroid cream can mess with your Adrenal Glands and I have been getting these waves of anxiety and adrenalin because of this junk. My cream had Betamethasone dipropionate in it The Cream had 0.05% Betamethasone in it. Sounds small but according to Wiki...Betamethasone dipropionate is a glucocorticoid steroid, and is "super high potency".

 

From the Wiki page..Adverse Effects

Although the absorption of betamethasone dipropionate is small, when used for prolonged periods of time (periods exceeding 2 weeks), or across a large surface area (total use greater than 50 grams per week), it can have adverse affects. One such effect is the ability of the corticosteroid to suppress the hypothalmic-pituitary

adrenal axis.[3][4] This can lead to a depression in the release of adrenal hormones such as cortisol and adrenocoritcotropic hormone, or ACTH. Symptoms of HPA axis suppression are often subtle and variable. but

can often be detected using simple blood or urine tests such at ACTH stimulation test or urinary free cortisol.[5] Those at increased risk for HPA axis suppression are those who are more likely to absorb more of the steroid through the skin. These groups include:

Those who have used topical corticosteroids over a prolonged period of time Those who have used corticosteroids to cover a large surface area Those with broken skin barrier or extensive abrasions Those who have recently undergone stress (such as illness, trauma, surgery) Children under the age of 12

HPA axis suppression is preventable but supplementation with glucocorticosteroids. If HPA axis suppression occurs, it is often reversed shortly after discontinuation of treatment.[6]

 

And from the Glucocorticosteroids Wiki page..

Withdrawal

In addition to the effects listed above, use of high-dose steroids for more than a week begins to produce suppression of the patient's adrenal glands because the exogenous glucocorticoids suppress hypothalamic corticotropin-releasing hormone and pituitary adrenocorticotropic hormone. With prolonged suppression, the adrenal glands atrophy (physically shrink), and can take months to recover full function after discontinuation of the exogenous glucocorticoid.

During this recovery time, the patient is vulnerable to adrenal insufficiency during times of stress, such as illness. While suppressive dose and time for adrenal recovery vary widely, clinical guidelines have been devised to estimate potential adrenal suppression and recovery, to reduce risk to the patient. The following is one example, but many variations exist or

may be appropriate in individual circumstances.[citation needed]

If patients have been receiving daily high doses for five days or less, they can be abruptly stopped (or reduced to physiologic replacement if patients are adrenal-deficient). Full adrenal recovery can be assumed to occur by a week afterward. If high doses were used for six to 10 days, reduce to replacement dose immediately and taper over four more days. Adrenal recovery can be assumed to occur within two to four weeks of completion of steroids.

If high doses were used for 11–30 days, cut immediately to twice replacement, and then by 25% every four days. Stop entirely when dose is less than half of replacement. Full adrenal recovery should occur within one to three months of completion of withdrawal. If high doses were used more than 30 days, cut dose immediately to twice replacement, and reduce by 25% each week

 

So, I hope I'll be Ok and my Adrenals will get back to normal!! Jeez! All of this from a stupid skin cream!! I was ready to cut 5 days ago, now this!

 

Well, Juliea, take care and I hope you get back online soon!! You are missed!!

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

I hope your power is back! That sucks. I've had that happen to me in NY. But during the summertime. No AC and 100 degrees for 3 days. Sucks.

 

Anyway, an update from last post. Rash is 75% healed and have no pain. Haven't used the steroid cream in 6 days ( found out each dose of the steroid cream lasts up to 72 hours, and I was still feeling symptoms days after stopping) just been using OTC 1% Clotrimazole cream. and it's working , I'll stop that by saturday..then that's it, I hope. But at least , it seems that crises has mellowed. Thank God.

 

Saturday the the 8th I did my 3rd cut, 15 days into cut two,but now on cut three. My mid day dose. A .0625 cut.

 

So, now my total daily is .5625. Morning .25 ( no cut yet) ,Mid late day .1875, and late night .1250.

 

Was holding pretty good until late last night ( beginning of day 5 of latest cut) when all hell broke loose. Hit about three AM. I've been feeling better and pushing it and staying up later, I feel like I'm finally semi "normal" after the last of my doses for the day and I seem to get about 12 hours of peace, of course I have to sleep for some of them but..

 

Also this time change is throwing me off..Anyway, watching a documentary and having a little late night snack when WHAM!

 

Panic!!

 

I thought that I was drugged on L.S.D or something ( also adding to the fear was , I opened up some strawberries just before and it looks like someone had eaten one and put it back! and I thought maybe it was laced with 'drugs"!!) It wasn't' of course, but I couldn't get that crazy thought out of my mind and then WHAM! here come the WD's!!

 

It was about a 3-4 on the scale. But that's the highest I've had in almost 2 weeks and the worst I've had since this new latest cut.

So, I tried to calm down, breathing, Deep Muscle Relaxation,looking at the clock and telling myself.if it was L.S.D., it would have stared by now ( about 1 -1/2 hours in, and since I didn't see the walls drip etc, it was most likely just day five into the cut and these are just WD's)

 

Anyway, once I got the idea out of my head that I wasn't poisoned with LSD strawberries and that I was still here about an hour and 40 mins in, I FINALLY started to calm down...

 

But it was tough! I'm sure made worse by thinking the Strawberry were poison! but, it finally ended.

 

I had my pills out though! I was really ready to take one! But I thought IF I am on LSD, I don't want to take a Xanax yet, lets wait and see, if the "acid" kicks in, at least then I'll know if I'm on 'acid" or if it's just Benzo WD's.

 

After about 2 hours in of "tripping" it dawned on me that, nope, the Strawberrys don't have LSD on them, your just in Acute WD!!

 

 

But, I made it. And didn't up dose.

 

Moral of the story,try to get some sleep early, don't push it, and don't imagine things as worse then they really are.

 

However, I am wondering, do you think that since it took 15 days between cuts this time that, when I did cut, my reaction was worse? Because, when I've cut at 10 days each time it's been smoother, and I worry that maybe my CNS was thinking we're just staying here and no more cuts ( because it was held longer ) and that may have made things worse?

 

Because I was ready to make cut number three 10 days into cut 2, I felt stable and ready..but then that stupid steroid cream screwed me up and I had to add 5 more days.

 

I'm wondering if, in my case, waiting longer, made things worse when I finally did cut again?

 

What do you think?

 

Hope your back with us soon Juliea!! Take care!!