Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Sm...]]

Thanks Smiff,

 

I've been weighing up the pros and cons of HRT - I'm going to see my GP about this in a few weeks.  I believe I am in peri-meno (I'm 45 next month - yikes...lol!) as I also have night sweats almost every night and have missed a few periods recently.  I had put the night sweats down to benzo w/d earlier in my taper but I am suspicious now as my w/d symptoms are almost non existent except around ovulation and a few days before my period.  Something is not right with my hormones so I will get it checked out.  Thanks for sharing your experience with low dose HRT - do you use the bioidentical oestrogen?  I am confused as some here on BB have said it is low progesterone that ramps up benzo w/d symptoms and others say it's low oestrogen.  I'm not sure how a doctor can tell seeing as the tests are not very reliable 

 

gts

 

DP gave you everything you need to know. She knows a hell of a lot more than me. 

But low estrogen is definitely the nasty with benzo w/d. I suspect you'll find an estradiol patch a great relief in this last run the finish line. I was pretty shocked at the effect it gave me instantly during a period when low. I'm not using progesterone (at this stage) because my estrogen dose is so low (1 quarter to 1 half of the lowest dose patch - 25mcg) and I use it only at certain times in the cycle plus I am likely making enough progesterone.

DP knows her stuff: if you have more learned specific questions she is the lady to speak to. So glad to have helped though (although we don't know it will help but I suspect it will)

Good luck and let us know how things go

Love

Smiff

[[Sm...]]

Wow thanks for the replies everyone, really appreciate it Updosing is not a option for me, my gp has made that perfectly clear, as for waiting it out and stabilizing that is not going to happen as I have been on this dose for around 2 years now, probably 10 times in each year on separate occasions I have used a extra tablet, maximum of 2, sorry I didn't make it very clear, so theoretically I should be stable by now? Sorry if that's not the case I am still educating myself.

 

Gp wants me to just carry on as I am or try a ssri but that is not not for me, I had a lot of very similar benzo withdrawal symptoms after my silly od which is the reason I am on them, I couldn't stay on a ad long enough to get a effect. The reason I think its tolerance is that I am not or feel stable and I am getting worse. As you state etown I have responsibilities so I can surmise if I stay as I am I will just end up in a worse position so the only option is to taper, just so torn to know the way forward. Unfortunately I have also gained quite bad ocd along the way so that includes me taking my tablets at the same time daily, silly I know but I can try to split into 6 doses its just how I proceed from there or proceed from where I am. Micro taper from 15mg seems unreal to me, these are serious drugs, you are right the tapering is hard to get my head around but will try, my gp said 1 mg a week but I know how I feel now so imagining reducing slightly I just cant get my head around it and as I am sure you all know taking the first step in the taper is pretty scary. I think I am just frightened to take the first step into the unknown and feeling worse, losing house, family etc etc. If I choose the 6 x daily taper how would some of you attack that taper, 5/10% over the 6 tablets by dry cutting each one, will have to try to work that out as they are 5mg tablets. I did ask about liquid valium but gp said it was something he had never heard of, he has other patients on v and when I asked my chances of getting off he said not good.

 

Sorry for the rant and will keep you posted on what I decide and thanks again for the reply's

 

Gra, I microtapered from 20mgs - it was the only way I could manage to taper.  My attempt the previous year with cut and hold was BAD!  I was also in tolerance withdrawal.  I do believe that it is actually much harder to taper in tolerance w/d - trying to get off fast for me did not end well and I had to start all over again.  The slow micro tapering with short but frequent holds when symptoms ramped up has worked much better for me.

 

gts

 

Gra - read this again gts has done what you are afraid to do so plan on ripping a page from her book.

etown

 

Gra you wont lose your house, job etc.

There are many people who taper and run their lives. Most people on this thread are doing so. They can only do so however by going really really slowly and usually the vast majority micro-daily-taper. You are right at this stage you are going nowhere fast, and the longer you leave things - and the less delicately you tread - the worse it will be.

 

Please please do not listen to your GP re cutting 1mg a week. I'm sorry I'm not a Dr but I just don't want to see the havoc that will wreak on your brain.

 

If you are close-ish to stable and you REALLY can't get any updose I'd do as GTS did whilst being close to tolerance: microtaper the whole way. If you are close to the edge it is best to just nudge that edge rather than fall off the cliff. Just how close are you to un-stable/tolerance w/d? How bad/frequent are symptoms?

 

Does dry cutting seem like it could work for you? I'm not OCD but the thought of all that pill dust that I have so little control over was enough to put me off that option. It may be fine for you, particularly since even daily tapering at your dose won't be teeny tiny piles of dust.

If you can't get liquid valium titration is surprisingly easy. I thought 'Too hard!' when I first came across titration. Fortunately I had a Dr willing to prescribe liquid V. But since I thought 'Too hard!' I've seen people's explanation and titration really does just amount to sticking your tablet in some liquid and letting it dissolve.

 

You'll get your head around it. Try to get your head around it. With a Dr who isn't supportive of updoses like yours you don't want to end up on a smaller dose than is right for your brain.

 

Take Care

Smiff

[[jj...]]

I will end up at 13 mg total. Right now I'm taking .2 mg compounded k, 7am, 2pm and 10pm + 1mg v with the pm dose. My plan is to switch over 2mg v at per week following the Ashton manual starting this Saturday. I'm actually a little worried that I'll be over sedated, but I'd rather overshoot a little at this point than undershoot and have to updose.

 

I agree JJ. Overshooting slightly preferable to under. Getting control of benzo w/d beast is harder once it is outta control.

Glad you are doing well xx

 

Thanks smiff. I'm closing in on 80/20, not quite there but getting closer.

 

Did your breathing get any easier?

[[Sm...]]

Breathing getting better thanks JJ

I'd trade bad breathing again for 80/20 Actually the second half of the day was 80/20. I'm suspecting a protein powder I've been using is seriously amped with glutamate. Anxiety so nasty the last 2 mornings I kept feeling compelled to leave yoga in a panic.

Glad you are closing in on 80/20

 

***Metal containers****

So the consensus is that some plastics absorb V. Anyone know about metal containers? They aren't breakable and you can get them easily

[[...]]

Thanks Smiff,

 

I've been weighing up the pros and cons of HRT - I'm going to see my GP about this in a few weeks.  I believe I am in peri-meno (I'm 45 next month - yikes...lol!) as I also have night sweats almost every night and have missed a few periods recently.  I had put the night sweats down to benzo w/d earlier in my taper but I am suspicious now as my w/d symptoms are almost non existent except around ovulation and a few days before my period.  Something is not right with my hormones so I will get it checked out.  Thanks for sharing your experience with low dose HRT - do you use the bioidentical oestrogen?  I am confused as some here on BB have said it is low progesterone that ramps up benzo w/d symptoms and others say it's low oestrogen.  I'm not sure how a doctor can tell seeing as the tests are not very reliable 

 

gts

 

Hi Getting there,

In my own experience with hrt which is limited since I just started it last June, too much progesterone can crash your estrogen, and if your estrogen is too low, the symptoms you will get are very similar to benzo w/d.  I have no knowledge of any problems related to benzo w/d if estrogen is "too high" (if there is such a thing as being too high).  Any hrt estrogen will likely never get our estrogen levels to where they were when we were in our 20s so I am not sure if this is even a reason to worry about it being too high unless you have a uterus and are taking estrogen unopposed by progesterone.  Doctors will typically prescribe a dose based on symptoms and usually only order blood tests after a few months to make sure everything looks ok.  I take bioidentical estradiol and progesterone because I still have a uterus.

[[...]]

I shudder to think about those poor souls...really

etown

 

I think about this a lot actually.  Valium was prescribed pretty heavily in the 50s and 60s for "nerves".  I'm sure everyone is aware of the Rolling Stones song "Mothers little helper" and the book "The Valley of the Dolls" both being about the rampant prescribing of Valium.  The people who were prescribed these pills are now in their 70s and 80s.  How did they get off of them or were they even able to?

[[...]]

etown,

 

I DO have the fire going. I have a Thelin pellet stove. It is a parlor stove. About 3 1/2 foot high. Very old fashioned in look. It burns 40 lbs of organic pellets a day and put out mega heat. It has a glass front door and the fire is captivating. I wanted a house with a fireplace. I got the house but not the fireplace so I bought the pellet stove 11 years ago.

 

CC

 

CC I love my fireplace - I put java logs in it and since it is a gas fp, they light quickly.  I love to sit near it on Saturday mornings while I read.  So soothing.

 

Etown, I cannot believe you do not have one in Canada!

[[Co...]]

hey smiff,

 

I was glad to read that you are feeling better. I was overwhelmed with anxiety also. I was short of breath. I think I likely had panic attacks w/o realizing what it was. I am in a better place but woke up this morning feeling slightly axious again. It has passed. I know when I feel like that I can help myself. I need to tell myself that it is the w/d. Many of the thoughts I have are not the way it really is. The shortness of breath is secondary to the anxiety for me. I am giving you a hug from Colorado and hoping you are feeling better.

[[or...]]

Smiff apparently metal containers are a no no for liquid valium. My partner is a retired professor of chemistry and she warned me against mixing up several doses and keeping them even in glass jars with metal lids. There will be a chemical reaction between any liquid that comes in contact with the lids and the metal lids themselves. It will affect the integrity of the valium mixture. I didn't want that. So I am looking for glass jars with plastic lids. I want to make up a couple of days' doses ahead. (I really don't get this--don't some people on BB keep their doses in baby food jars??? Whatever.)

 

I do hate how these benzos are front and center in my life. I thought maybe making up a few days' evil potions ahead and forgetting them will help me put benzo fear on the back burner.

 

Hope this helps about the metal. I guess better safe than sorry,

 

Okats

[[mr...]]

Smiff apparently metal containers are a no no for liquid valium. My partner is a retired professor of chemistry and she warned me against mixing up several doses and keeping them even in glass jars with metal lids. There will be a chemical reaction between any liquid that comes in contact with the lids and the metal lids themselves. It will affect the integrity of the valium mixture. I didn't want that. So I am looking for glass jars with plastic lids. I want to make up a couple of days' doses ahead. (I really don't get this--don't some people on BB keep their doses in baby food jars??? Whatever.)

 

I do hate how these benzos are front and center in my life. I thought maybe making up a few days' evil potions ahead and forgetting them will help me put benzo fear on the back burner.

 

Hope this helps about the metal. I guess better safe than sorry,

 

Okats

Most of the store bought consumer goods in glass jars have the plastisol coating the metal cover inside.

Ball makes plastic storage covers for all sizes of their jars.

[[or...]]

Good to know mrtm.

 

Okatz

[[Sm...]]

Thanks CC - Yes through the last 2 days of yoga I have been telling myself that it is just w/d and just to focus on the posture. By the end of yoga I'm usually fine but there have been a number of times lately where I do all I can to just stay there.

 

As for containers: Thanks for your input. Learning something benzo new everyday No metal and V. How I'd love to not have to know that

I found glass bottles, no leak with plastic lids just at the compound pharmacy. She spoke about the lids and said child proof ones tend to leak more. She couldn't guarantee this was no leak but she said they transport medicines in it to other pharmacies. I've had it sitting upside down on the bench overnight with water and no leakage so that should do. She also had a few for me to choose from. And finally she suggested the amber colour too because many medications are affected by light. My liquid V is in an amber bottle so even though it will be in my bag primarily I thought I'd go with that. That was $1.50 so easy peasy and cheap.

[[...]]

I use glass jars with plastic lids and make up a few days worth at at time and have had no problems with them.

 

Good Information Okatz

[[or...]]

 

Okatz

[Guest [Sa...]]

Hi all,

 

Has anyone been told to take Lyrica (pregabalin) while withdrawing from valium?

 

What is your opinion/experience with Lyrica as a GABA substitute during withdrawal? If I've counted correctly, I have 4 months to go with my valium withdrawal. I was given Lyrica months ago because I have post hepatic neuralgia from recurrent shingles on my head/forehead. It made me woozy so I just kept in in the draw for bad days.

 

When I researched my valium withdrawal, I found that it was the GABA that was 'having issues' and that when I took a dose of Lyrica, I'd feel almost 100% normal within hours! The Lyrica is giving me the GABA hit that my brain is craving. It really makes this valium withdrawal SO much easier!

 

My concern is that in 4 months time I am addicted to Lyrica and need to go through another withdrawal! However, if it works, I'm kinda ok about it.

 

I'm supposed to take 300mgs twice daily for my neuralgia. I've only been taking 75mgs morning and night.

 

Lyrica can be discontinued within a week. It doesn't require the slower withdrawal like all the benzos and antidepressants I've come off over the past 5 years. I've come of 2 anti depressants, 2 antipsychotics, xanax, megaton and now valium, which is my final medication. The end is so near!!! 

 

I will talk to my GP about it next Wednesday, but I thought I'd ask you guys what you think and see if anyone is also using it for the same reasons.

 

Peace

Sarah Hope

[[et...]]

Sarah welcome to this thread. I have read about Lyrica but not for a while mainly because I figured why trade one addiction for another? As Smiff says you put a medication or supplement in your mouth not without consequences (not a direct quote). If Lyrica was a miracle drug for Benzo withdrawal there would be little need for Benzobuddies. I hope you get the answer you want. Sorry

etown

[Guest [Sa...]]

Sarah welcome to this thread. I have read about Lyrica but not for a while mainly because I figured why trade one addiction for another? As Smiff says you put a medication or supplement in your mouth not without consequences (not a direct quote). If Lyrica was a miracle drug for Benzo withdrawal there would be little need for Benzobuddies. I hope you get the answer you want. Sorry

etown

Hi etown,

Thanks, I've been here for a while, I replied to you earlier on here.. but nobody replied to my last post..I can't keep up with the pages of chat. I'm feeling very lost and out of the 'clique' of this site  :'(

 

Anyway,  the thought that I'm just adding another drug to come off is my main concern. But if it helps does it really matter?

 

Lyrica makes the side effects of this particular withdrawal so much easier to deal with. It takes away the cold I get a few days after I drop my dose, the hot flushes (NOT menopause)  It also stops the 'depression' I feel in the second week and I actually feel like getting up and doing stuff.

 

Hopefully someone else has had experience with Lyrica and will see my post... :/ 

 

This is my last attempt at this site. Others seem to have no problem private messaging me for advice, as I'm happy to share my experience when others post. It'd be nice to get some back.

[[Wo...]]

Hi Sarah,

 

I've been here for a while and I honestly think you have not gotten responses because not very many of us have experience with Lyrica. My particular opinion is that if it helps you come off of the valium more smoothly than by golly take it! You can worry about tapering it later. Don't take a lack of response as judgement or snobbery, we all have our own paths here, we are all individual people and are not specifically excluding you or anyone else, we just don't have useful knowledge or experience to share unfortunately.

 

Best,

 

Workin

[[et...]]

Sarah welcome to this thread. I have read about Lyrica but not for a while mainly because I figured why trade one addiction for another? As Smiff says you put a medication or supplement in your mouth not without consequences (not a direct quote). If Lyrica was a miracle drug for Benzo withdrawal there would be little need for Benzobuddies. I hope you get the answer you want. Sorry

etown

Hi etown,

Thanks, I've been here for a while, I replied to you earlier on here.. but nobody replied to my last post..I can't keep up with the pages of chat. I'm feeling very lost and out of the 'clique' of this site  :'(

 

Anyway,  the thought that I'm just adding another drug to come off is my main concern. But if it helps does it really matter?

 

Lyrica makes the side effects of this particular withdrawal so much easier to deal with. It takes away the cold I get a few days after I drop my dose, the hot flushes (NOT menopause)  It also stops the 'depression' I feel in the second week and I actually feel like getting up and doing stuff.

 

Hopefully someone else has had experience with Lyrica and will see my post... :/ 

 

This is my last attempt at this site. Others seem to have no problem private messaging me for advice, as I'm happy to share my experience when others post. It'd be nice to get some back.

 

Sarah I'm a very inclusive person and I feel this is one of the better threads for me. Sometimes you have to be persistent as the thread moves very fast. My other concern with Lyrica is lets say you were at 2mg of Valium and struggling to get the the illusive 0 mg. It may make sense to me to try anything to get there. You are at a higher dose right now and knowing what we know about drugs, they often have a period where they work well and then stop working almost like another tolerance. Adding drugs or supplements that affect Gaba or glutamate has one major flaw IMO. When ever we take a drug the brain creates a "new normal" in an effort to regain homeostasis or balance. It eventually does but the "new normal" is still not normal. So eventually we still have to deal with how do I allow the brain to get to a natural real normal. If you take Lyrica or anything else you will prolong the inevitable. The brain still has to heal and eventually you will be faced with allowing drug free time for this to take place. As I have said tirelessly in the past the best drug/supplement for Benzo withdrawal is called TIME. Don't give up on this thread. Don't be a stranger, post often ,and you will get to know everyone better. It's human nature the more you talk the more people talk to you. I know your input is important to me!

etown

[[or...]]

SarahHope I don't know much about Lyrica other than it is chemically similar to Neurontin, which I do take. I've taken N before benzos for a foot neuropathy (not diabetic). A neuropathy from a bungled back surgery. Like you, I noticed an odd thing about this drug -- let's call them brothers or sisters as they are very similar. I used to believe that when I took my valium all at night, that it was the valium that was making me feel "good". But now that I take my valium in a split dose and still feel the same "good" at night . . . I realize it could well be the Neurontin. Because my tiny little dose of valium can't be doing a thing for me. Except keeping me out of w/d.

 

I recently had to bump up my Neurontin as I got into a bout of horrid nerve pain . . . and noticed that I felt extra "good" at night.

 

So, if it's any help to you, yes, you may be onto something. And if it means that Lyrica is helping you through your taper, well, IMO so be it. It can always be tapered off.

 

The only thing I plan to do differently is to drop some of my Neurontin once I am certain the nerve pain is gone to stay. And I will keep on my "maintenance" dose of Neurontin post-taper as it does help me.

 

So our situations are not quite the same, but they do share some similarities.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Okatz

 

[[or...]]

I forgot to add I take all my Neurontin at night because it is so sedating for me.

 

Okatz

[[Co...]]

Sarah,

 

I will weigh in here also. I do not take Lyrica but I know someone that has. Lyrica is similar to Gabapentin but stronger. It is a schedule V drug, an anti-seizure med that produces withdrawal if used for very long. I was given an r/x to Gaba abt a month ago and told it did not produce w/d. Not true. I think that we all have to be very careful in what we take. I take valium to help temper klonopin w/d. I take a low dose and have tapered since day one. I am well aware that it is a benzo also. I think the concern here is genuine. The help we give each other is invaluable. It takes time to get to know everyone and keep up with responses.

Good luck.

[[ge...]]

Smiff apparently metal containers are a no no for liquid valium. My partner is a retired professor of chemistry and she warned me against mixing up several doses and keeping them even in glass jars with metal lids. There will be a chemical reaction between any liquid that comes in contact with the lids and the metal lids themselves. It will affect the integrity of the valium mixture. I didn't want that. So I am looking for glass jars with plastic lids. I want to make up a couple of days' doses ahead. (I really don't get this--don't some people on BB keep their doses in baby food jars??? Whatever.)

 

I do hate how these benzos are front and center in my life. I thought maybe making up a few days' evil potions ahead and forgetting them will help me put benzo fear on the back burner.

 

Hope this helps about the metal. I guess better safe than sorry,

 

Okats

 

Okats,

 

I use these jars (but bought from Amazon UK) - I've had no problems except for bits of filler sticking to the sides (I think Bart and others have said it's mainly the fillers that stick to the sides) so I rinse around the jars with water and drink that.  They protect from light also...

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Other-Side-Vapes-Small/dp/B006QNILGA

 

gts

 

 

 

[[Di...]]

Hi Sarah

 

I'm fairly sure I have responded to some of your posts, but I don't recall exactly what they were about now. The thing is that this thread moves very fast sometimes, and sometimes that can mean that posts you make can get missed, or you can even miss replies that people make to you. No one is snubbing you. This is a very helpful and friendly section, but sometimes people don't respond if it's something that they don't have any experience with.

 

You actually need to target the actual areas that are going to give you the best response. This is possibly not the best section to post a question about Lyrica, because not many of us are experienced with. However, a quick look over at the "Other Medications" section shows a current thread about Lyrica, which you don't seem to have posted on. Perhaps it might be worth posting your question there, because then you are going to target the people who have experience.

 

This is the link.... http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97292.0

[Guest [Sa...]]

Hi Sarah,

 

I've been here for a while and I honestly think you have not gotten responses because not very many of us have experience with Lyrica. My particular opinion is that if it helps you come off of the valium more smoothly than by golly take it! You can worry about tapering it later. Don't take a lack of response as judgement or snobbery, we all have our own paths here, we are all individual people and are not specifically excluding you or anyone else, we just don't have useful knowledge or experience to share unfortunately.

 

Best,

 

Workin

Hi Workin, This is my first post about Lyrica specifically, but thanks for your input :>