Stomach healing place

[[ma...]]

Spartacus,

 

Good to hear you are back to baseline.

 

I think I will see if mine resolves also.  I know I don't have diabetes, just had an

A1C.

 

Thanks again,

 

Mama

[[br...]]

Hey everyone,

 

I hope everyone is ok, this thread is going to be very helpful to new members, if I had of seen a thread like this when I first started out on my taper I'm sure things would of made a lot more sense.,

 

About withdrawal from the PPI'S.

 

I am still quite sick at the moment but thankfully not anywhere as bad as weeks 3 and 4.

 

Now it is like my stomach just won't digest anything and feel ill, like a sick sort of feeling, just a mess really, physically, still, I'd take that over the burning and bloating.

 

I haven't ate for over 30 hours and feel like I need a good rest from any food. I never realized just how bad not eating effects my emotions.

 

I am just physically and mentally drained and I just want to be normal again.   Another day passes, another day closer to freedom I guess.

 

I will not be defeated and unless I am actually dying or in server pain then you know what I say,

 

''BRING IT ON'' do your worst withdrawal, do your worst! :@

 

Wishing you all well.

 

B

 

 

 

[[th...]]

Spartacus ....I love you!!! What you said is exactly how I feel about this whole process (well being very leery of any medicines, including supplements also assists in this). But no matter how hard it is or how bad it hurts I believe we need to get out of the way and let the healing happen without popping or ingesting a slew of added junk only confusing our brain and systems!! I am so animate about this that when I had a surgery in Feb, right when I began my taper, I told the doc no benzo before anesthesia and no pain meds after. I will use ice and if I must I will take a Tyl. They all thought I was nuts! But I knew by day 4 the pain would start to decrease and it was a part of the healing process! I did it. No pain meds but ice and distraction! I must add though that I take a probiotic daily, that's it. And I do other tx that don't involve ingesting more meds like baths, message, tapping, distraction..things like that but most of the time I just know I have to stick it out and let it do it's job to balance again. It hurts ya, but I think it's best in the long run. Just my opinion. 

[[Br...]]

Hey Sparty!  Maybe your fall was partly a consequence of benzos? 

 

Some studies have found that those who take benzos have more falls and accidents than those who don't. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[ov...]]

Spartacus:  That fall sounded horrendous.  You have been through a lot, for sure.  Thanks for all your wonderful suggestions to all of us.  Now for me to find something that works.  So far the crystallized ginger is not working.

 

Could you explain why you feel probiotics are bad for the stomach.  I know you said they are mainly for the intestines, but if the probiotic is taken in a powdered form mixed with water, it does stay in the stomach for a while. 

 

I am just not getting any relief with the reflux at all.  I know all the stress I am under personally and financially is making it worse plus all my other s/xs.

 

Thanks so much

xo OC  :smitten:

[[br...]]

Just read about your fall Spartacus. (I skim far to much) You are a tough cookie that is for sure, it is one thing falling down some stairs, but falling down the stairs and doing that kind of damage whilst in benzo wd and then recovering, now that is a true strength of character.

 

I had a similar thing happen to me, of sorts, only I damaged my back whilst in training, at the time, it was like my world ended, here's the twist and anybody reading this with back problems in benzo wd please take note of this post, it turns out that the back problem I have/had, the altered gait, the difficulty walking, the pain, the spasms. It was all benzo wd, all that time wasted at physio, all that stress, all that changing my life to suit this odd walking I had to put up with, all flipping benzo withdrawal.

 

My symptoms have mimicked MS, so basically I have had the symptoms of a form of MS and then about 20 additional sx on top for good luck, for almost 3 years now.

 

This benzo wd is Bonkers! 

[[sp...]]

Spartacus:  That fall sounded horrendous.  You have been through a lot, for sure.  Thanks for all your wonderful suggestions to all of us.  Now for me to find something that works.  So far the crystallized ginger is not working.

 

Could you explain why you feel probiotics are bad for the stomach.  I know you said they are mainly for the intestines, but if the probiotic is taken in a powdered form mixed with water, it does stay in the stomach for a while. 

 

I am just not getting any relief with the reflux at all.  I know all the stress I am under personally and financially is making it worse plus all my other s/xs.

 

Thanks so much

xo OC  :smitten:

 

Hello overcomer,

 

The point about probiotics is they have to make it through the stomach alive if they're to do any good because the aim is to change the flora of the lower intestine.

 

If the stomach acid and digestive enzymes are working properly they will normally kill anything alive before it can get out of the stomach...stomach contents are generally sterile. Helicobacter only survives in a hostile environment because it hides in the protective mucus lining the stomach.

 

Taking an acid suppressant does make it more likely that a probiotic will survive, it's becoming clear that it certainly makes some sorts of gastroenteritis more likely(Clostridium Difficile, Campylobacter). Unfortunately, particularly if the stomach is emptying slowly, it also makes it more likely that any bacteria eaten may grow and ferment there too.

 

Turning stomach contents into a stagnant, fermented, bacterial broth is not likely to help anything much...if only because the gas produced will encourage reflux.

 

And then there's all the recent work that suggests that there are only a few bacterial profiles in the biodome(the gut flora)and that the one you have is conferred by birth and nurture, is settled by age three and doesn't change much throughout life unless slaughtered by antibiotics...or perhaps challenged by probiotics?

 

The research about gut flora has been prematurely hijacked and grossly oversimplified by commerce. It's perhaps a good thing that the average stomach kills off the average probiotic because we really don't know what we're doing.

 

More recent work suggests that if you're serious about changing gut flora then faecal transplants are the way forward. All I would say is choose your donor with care

 

Love, spartacus

 

PS I fell downstairs because I was in my very first window and full of it. On the third amazing day I leapt out of bed, headed for the stairs and blacked out

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[ma...]]

I'm just miserable with my food not digesting. Even eating a small amount of food feels like I've eaten a 12 lb. turkey. I get so hungry and have to eat every two hours.  I have taken a digestive enzyme and it doesn't seem to help.  I can't do anything but sit until my stomach empties.  The nausea was better today, but it seems like the digestion got worse.

 

Bring,

 

Is this what you are experiencing?  Did this happen since you stopped the PPI's?  I can feel the burn up between my shoulder blades also.

 

 

Spartacus,

 

Do you remember when you felt like you started digesting food again.

 

Thanks,

 

Mama

 

[[ov...]]

Spartacus:  Thanks so much for the thorough explanation.  It sure goes against everything I have heard.  Unfortunately for me, the crystallized ginger is not working.  Too bad, because it is yummy tasting.  I have developed a lot of gas.  It is almost like there is a pocket full of air in my belly that pushes all fluid upward and outward.  Crazy, it is such an odd s/x.  I have not heard anyone else complain of it.  I don't have nausea, or burning,  just this churning thing going on all the time and bubbly stuff that goes up my esophagus into my mouth.  If I don't expel it, it will sometimes go out my nose, or if I sneeze it just juts forth out of the mouth.  Sorry, guys, this is disgusting.  When it is really bad, it makes my skin prick.  Both s/x began at the same time, and as I w/d from K continually got worse, so now I have paraesthia all over  my body, not a spot of skin that is not super sensitive to touch.  Also the rash worsened with it too.  Almost like a poison trying to get out!

 

Well Spartacus, it looks like you have to not get quite so excited during a window.  You are one tough cookie!!!

xo OC  :smitten:

[[sp...]]

Spartacus,

 

Do you remember when you felt like you started digesting food again.

 

Thanks,

 

Mama

Hello Mama,

 

Within a few weeks of jumping I started to have an appetite, particularly in the evening.

 

This seemed to be important in relieving the stagnant pond syndrome...or perhaps it all happened the other way around?

 

Either way stomach emptying seems to be the key for me(though I have gastroparesis so it's going to be). Avoiding anything that slows emptying is crucial(fat, excess fibre, PPIs, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, sleeping, iced water, excess exercise after eating, opiate painkillers, some antidepressants, some antihistamines, withdrawal ).

 

In this context moving around after eating, gently pottering, is much better than sitting around, and a slow walk after a couple of hours or before eating the next meal can help.

 

Eating every two hours I found unhelpful...though I did do it sometimes to try to increase my intake and because it sometimes seemed to help the burning pain.

 

Ultimately it upped the acid and never gave my stomach a break, perpetuated the vicious cycle; it didn't help train the idiot organ to fill, churn, digest and empty.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus

[[sp...]]

Spartacus:  Thanks so much for the thorough explanation.  It sure goes against everything I have heard.  Unfortunately for me, the crystallized ginger is not working.  Too bad, because it is yummy tasting.  I have developed a lot of gas.  It is almost like there is a pocket full of air in my belly that pushes all fluid upward and outward.  Crazy, it is such an odd s/x.  I have not heard anyone else complain of it.  I don't have nausea, or burning,  just this churning thing going on all the time and bubbly stuff that goes up my esophagus into my mouth.  If I don't expel it, it will sometimes go out my nose, or if I sneeze it just juts forth out of the mouth.  Sorry, guys, this is disgusting.  When it is really bad, it makes my skin prick.  Both s/x began at the same time, and as I w/d from K continually got worse, so now I have paraesthia all over  my body, not a spot of skin that is not super sensitive to touch.  Also the rash worsened with it too.  Almost like a poison trying to get out!

 

Well Spartacus, it looks like you have to not get quite so excited during a window.  You are one tough cookie!!!

xo OC  :smitten:

 

Hello overcomer,

 

There is usually a pocket full of air in the stomach...that's normal to an extent. Excess gas is a problem related to air swallowing, fizzy drinks, fermentation or bicarbonates.

 

Fizzy reflux can only come from gas dissolved in liquid under pressure fizzing out of solution when the pressure drops. Usually carbon dioxide though fermentation could produce anything. It might be interesting to ask your doctor to send a sample of your stomach contents for culture...to see if they are growing anything weird.

 

If you've removed all potential sources of air swallowing or gas formation then the problem is again one of stasis. Your stomach is emptying up the way because it doesn't empty well down the way.

 

So it's a matter of avoiding too much fat or fibre, any drugs or supplements making things worse, etc etc then all the other idiot little adjustments to help gravity help you.

 

This, and ginger, take time...and work so much better off the benzos.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus x

[[br...]]

Bring,

 

Is this what you are experiencing?  Did this happen since you stopped the PPI's?  I can feel the burn up between my shoulder blades also.

 

 

Mama

 

Yeah, it basically feels like I have swallowed a dead rodent and it is just stuck in my stomach, fermenting away. It feels like I need to break wind, mixed with a heavy undigested food feeling, then a sort of a sick miserable feeling, oh no not another day of this feeling. Awful is the best word.

 

I had this before PPI withdrawal, nowhere as bad. I never had it before taking PPIs funnily enough. It is slowly getting better, ever so slowly. I think 2-4 months and it will be back on track.

[[br...]]

B-I-O ,  I don't think using OTC meds is going to work for me either.  I will just have to put up with the stomach burning.    I can never get it out of my head that the 8.5mgs of valium is causing the problem but hopefully it's the withdrawal from the PPI.    I know there are other PPI's that don't interact wtih valium but I think the side effects for me will probably be the same.  I so easily get diarrhoea.  On nexium is very bad. 

 

 

Both the benzos and the PPI's will be causing the burning. The PPI withdrawal will be revving up the burning from valium withdrawal and the valium wd will be revving up the burning from the PPI wd, both are the cause of the burning. Not nice I know. Hang in there.

 

How long have you been in PPI wd?

[[ov...]]

Thanks Spartacus:  So I guess, no probiotics, I don't do any of the other things you listed except mouth breathe, which I know causes gas.  I immediately belch during and after meals now, this is fairly new, and so is all the gas.    With the way I am tapering, it will be forever before I am off.  I really felt the last  1 mg of V drop, will be dropping another .5 tonight.  This is the way to hell in a hand basket.  I would speed up taper if I didn't have so many s/xs and am still attempting to work.  Good thing I work alone as the constant spitting would gross any one out. 

 

I need to eat a lot to gain some weight but this acid up flow is preventing the weight gain.  The weight loss began with this acid problem getting so much worse in K w/d.  I pray for relief.  It is making me insane!

 

So Sparty you are saying the ginger does not work over night, it takes a while?  How long for you.  I have been eating a morsel with each meal for 5 days now, and no let up. 

 

Thanks Dear Sparty for all the help you are giving everyone on this thread.

 

xo OC  :smitten:

 

[[th...]]

Hm? I take a probiotic, I don't know, maybe like Spartacus said it is pointless..like almost everything else. I thought it was helping me??? That is disappointing to hear 

[[Kg...]]

Overcomer - ginger from what I have read is used for nausea which I get with the valium.  I have read that it is best used in tea form- what I do and it has helped me a lot is I make ginger tea - use fresh ginger - you can use a tea ball (large one) or a strainer - chop up a few pieces of fresh ginger w/o the skin  - just use a potato peeler, add some lemon peel.  Pour hot water over it and set timer for about 3 1/2 to 4 minutes - and drink the tea AFTER you meal or before - it depends on your body - I drink it after.  I drink it 2 times per day -after breakfast and after dinner.  You don't cook the ginger - just use it to make tea.  There is a you tube on this but I don't know how to link it for you.  Fresh ginger works best but you can use the crystallized kind if you want but it is very expensive to do - so I use it sparingly.  I don't put any sugar in -for me it would defeat the purpose.  It helped me after a couple of days.  If you are on any kind of blood thinner medication etc you need to check with your doctor- this is according to what  I have read.  If you have stomach cramps I don't know if ginger helps - but that was not my issue.  Now if only it took away my anxiety it would be great. 

[[Pe...]]

hey everyone!

i'm new here so i'm not entirely sure where to post this. i just hope i'm not intruding on your support group.

 

i've had very painful GERD and bloating throughout my withdrawal.

 

i tried tums for the acid reflux, and it was fairly effective, but then i was hit with extreme and debilitating body pain (felt like some kind of bizarre pulsing in my bones) that only seemed to worsen when i took tums. took a break from the tums, and then decided it was okay to use them a little more sparingly. but, wouldn't you know it, after a couple days of one or two tums a day, the pulsing bone pain starts to return, and i stopped the tums entirely.  haven't felt that kind of pain since.

 

anyone else have something like this happen?

i've convinced myself it's somehow linked to calcium, because it appears that all my symptoms seem to worsen after i eat something particularly high in calcium.

[[wi...]]

::::Both the benzos and the PPI's will be causing the burning. The PPI withdrawal will be revving up the burning from valium withdrawal and the valium wd will be revving up the burning from the PPI wd, both are the cause of the burning. Not nice I know. Hang in there.

 

How long have you been in PPI wd?

 

Bring,  I've been off PPI about the same time as you but I was only on it for 3 months (40mgs)    I'm trying OTC Zantac which doesn't appear to do anything.  My worst stomach s/x is the same as Kgirl10 - nausea.  I can revisit the ginger tea but the chinese acupuncturist said to avoid ginger coz one of my problems is that I have too much heat in my body and ginger will create more heat - this is chinese medicine so don't really know if it's valid but given that my butt is burning the entire time I sit I am inclined to agree with her.  Western medicine hasn't really done too much for me to point!    I have to do something for the nausea.  I have some acid burning but mostly just discomfort and nausea and now some bloating.    Like Kgirl10 the nausea is worst in the mornings.

 

 

GI doc gave me a script for rabeprazole sodium.  Called Pariet here in OZ.    Quite honestly if I thought it would help  to get thru the taper I would take it and deal with withdrawing from it after I get off the benzo.    This is pretty much what you have done yeah?      My taper is going to be slow.      Getting off benzo's seems to me to be the number 1 priority.  Will a PPI help my stomach enough to manage an 18 month taper?    I'm not one of these people who can drop 1 mg per month!    I don't think rabeprazole sodium will interfer with valium metabolism but I can't know for sure.    It would be so much better if I only had the butt pain to deal with - which is a very severe.  I really don't need a stomach that is as miserable as all getout!

 

Anyone??

 

 

[[ov...]]

Wiser:  The Chinese medicine has been around for centuries.  He may be right and the ginger is hot.  Didn't know that, I am having difficulty in the heat.  It has been over 90 here all week.  I never used to be like this in the heat, crazy w/d.

 

Kgirl, I read about your ginger tea a few days ago.  Sounds good, except I am having difficulty keeping liquids down, so I was hoping the crystallized ginger would work better.  It does not seem to be helping at all.  I am at my wits end, with the constant churning in my throat of the acid.  It is strange, it doesn't make me nauseous, or burn.  I am full of gas and it just defies gravity and sends it up or if I bend over it goes up to my mouth.  Totally disgusting and quite life altering.  And definitely affecting my health.  I have lost a lost 15 lbs since this acid problem began in K w/d.  It keeps getting worse, I don't think the Valium is helping matters any, and I have a long taper ahead of me.

 

xo OC  :smitten:

 

[[sp...]]

Thanks Spartacus:  So I guess, no probiotics, I don't do any of the other things you listed except mouth breathe, which I know causes gas.  I immediately belch during and after meals now, this is fairly new, and so is all the gas.    With the way I am tapering, it will be forever before I am off.  I really felt the last  1 mg of V drop, will be dropping another .5 tonight.  This is the way to hell in a hand basket.  I would speed up taper if I didn't have so many s/xs and am still attempting to work.  Good thing I work alone as the constant spitting would gross any one out. 

 

I need to eat a lot to gain some weight but this acid up flow is preventing the weight gain.  The weight loss began with this acid problem getting so much worse in K w/d.  I pray for relief.  It is making me insane!

 

So Sparty you are saying the ginger does not work over night, it takes a while?  How long for you.  I have been eating a morsel with each meal for 5 days now, and no let up. 

 

Thanks Dear Sparty for all the help you are giving everyone on this thread.

 

xo OC  :smitten:

 

Dear overcomer,

 

Your problem is odd, persistent fizzy reflux is odd...though most people can produce it if challenged with something rotten enough and fatty enough. I suspect nothing much will work unless you work out why you are presenting as you are.

 

As I remember you have taken a lot of probiotics? Even if we have the theory right, they're not meant to be a way of life...just a way of repopulating the lower intestine with bacteria we perceive as "good"(a judgement we are probably unfit to make).

 

Trust me I have taken every Lactobacillus available including Rhamnosus. I'm familiar with all the reasons anyone selling bacteria claims theirs to be the "right" ones. All I would say is they can't all be right...which translates in real life to someone like me, or you, taking all of them at one time or another...though I was taking them for the IBS-like symptoms of benzo belly and because I had been using low-dose erythromycin, an antibiotic, as a gastric motility agent.

 

I struggle to think of any reason at all why they would benefit GERD...unless they produce diarrhoea and stop the straining at stool that raises abdominal pressure and initiates the day's reflux

 

In time, rigorously "scientific" to the end, I judged my intestine to be septic enough and I stopped assaulting my stomach with them. Given you seem to have become a shaken bottle of champagne on a good day and an overflowing fermentation vessel on a bad, it would be interesting to stop them for a while?

 

You have nothing to lose but your fizz.

 

Love, spart x

 

Whatever you do, don't give up. You will get there.

 

 

 

 

[[ov...]]

Hey Spart x:  I have stopped the probiotics back when you nayed it.  Been taking the ginger.  Because the acid is always in the back of the throat, I went to the ENT for check up as I thought it was my allergies, didn't know I was having acid.  He ordered a barium swallow and did a larngoscopy (sp) , said I had acid reflux, needed PPI rx Protonix.  I tried for a month, did no good, then quick wean off.  He told me that it was my anxiety making my throat bring it up and I needed to always carry around a bottle of water with me and take a swallow of water.  Lot of good that does, it just comes up.  It is the strangest thing, it began 2 yrs ago, just in the morning, this was during my first k w/d.  Then I was reinstated, still had the stuff in the throat in the morning, then began another K taper  and the more K I tapered the more the acid came, next starting in the late evening, then during the afternoon, then I jumped the K and all hell broke loose with the acid and the parasthesia, etc etc.  I am not eating foods that are acidic, so that is not what is causing it. 

 

It certainly makes it difficult to eat and to go any where.  I definitely need to get a handle on it.  Because of the acid always being at the back of my throat, it is almost like a sucking candy motion.  I am nuts over this.

 

xo OC  :smitten:

[[sp...]]

Hey overcomer,

 

This will sound like so little but I have found it to work sometimes when the reflux is out of order.

 

One of the "minor" effects of withdrawal is to dry the mouth, stop the normal production of saliva. Anyone with a problem obstructing the oesophagus quickly finds out how much of this we normally produce...they are condemned to spitting out rather than swallowing pints of the stuff.

 

And it's these unnoticed pints of saliva that routinely aid chewing and swallowing, begin the antimicrobial activity that often kills probiotics, start digestion and continuously clear the oesophagus.

 

The first thing is to avoid all drugs that could be making this worse; antidepressants, antipsychotics, antihistamines, opiate analgesics and betablockers are all often mentioned here.

 

I found the usually advised sialogogues(things that increase the rate of low of saliva)unhelpful. Sugarless chewing gums usually contain aspartame, boiled sweets(classically lemon sherbets or pear drops)dissolve teeth, the drugs available I wasn't prepared to try, vitamin C upset my stomach and revved up my anxiety etc etc.

 

And, like you, I found that continually wetting my mouth, whether with water or artificial spit(Ugh!), didn't work and produced its own problems.

 

In the end I stuck to vinegar, ginger and cayenne when I could(they are all sialogogues, minor amounts used to dress appropriate foods)and developed the habit of holding nuts in my mouth...best not to let your imagination run away with you here . This was the nutritionally-obsessed equivalent to holding a stone in the mouth when dying of thirst in a desert.

 

I know it sounds dopey, I also know it worked for me in the short-term.

 

In the long term, the salivary glands are not damaged, like everything else this effect does reverse in time.

 

Don't give up.

 

Love, spart x

 

 

[[Co...]]

Does anyone get dizziness, weakness, gas and nausea after eating? I'm wondering if it's a new withdrawal sx or a new sx from the depakote? Thanks

[[ma...]]

Hi Cool,

 

Yes, I get this.  It is awful.  I can't eat very much at all.  Then I get so weak, especially in my arms and legs.  No choice but to sit down.  I have the dizziness, like you are on a boat and the nausea comes and goes.  The nausea is worse in the mornings.  All of this, after eating can leave me non functional throughout the day.  It happens immediately after eating.  How about you?

 

I see you are at 8 months too.  I will be 8 months tomorrow, and I can't believe I still have this.

 

Take Care,

 

Mama2

[[wi...]]

http://www.sharecare.com/health/ginger-supplements/what-medications-interact-ginger

 

Will the fresh chopped ginger tea I'm drinking interfer with valium....  can the boffins please read and tell me if this is a problem ....  geez, is nothing sacred?