Stomach healing place

[[do...]]

Every morning when I get up, I drink a large coffee mug full of rather warm water.  I add tblsp of each:  apple.cider vineger, lemon juice, molasses and honey.  I find it goea down smooth and aids in good regular morning bowel movements.

[[wi...]]

B-I-O ,  I don't think using OTC meds is going to work for me either.  I will just have to put up with the stomach burning.    I can never get it out of my head that the 8.5mgs of valium is causing the problem but hopefully it's the withdrawal from the PPI.    I know there are other PPI's that don't interact wtih valium but I think the side effects for me will probably be the same.  I so easily get diarrhoea.  On nexium is very bad. 

 

Spartacus, out of consideration for those less gifted amongst us, namely me, can you tell me in very simple terms how you fixed your GI issues enough to finish your taper?    Spell it out for me please.  Simple as possible.

 

You joined BB when you were at 3mgs to go and very fearful yes?    I presume you rushed thru the taper?  I don't think I have a fast taper in me.  I am not  mentally/pysically strong enough - being 61and unwell for a while now doesnt' help..      I need to taper slowly..    My stomach is my biggest worry right now and I really don't think PPI's are an option for me.  Too many side effects.      Even Gaviscon seems to make me feel yuk.

 

 

[[ov...]]

Gotta try the ginger.  Hopefully hubby can find it at the store.  Thanks Spartacus for all your help to all of us!

xo OC  :smitten:

[[sp...]]

B-I-O ,  I don't think using OTC meds is going to work for me either.  I will just have to put up with the stomach burning.    I can never get it out of my head that the 8.5mgs of valium is causing the problem but hopefully it's the withdrawal from the PPI.    I know there are other PPI's that don't interact wtih valium but I think the side effects for me will probably be the same.  I so easily get diarrhoea.  On nexium is very bad. 

 

Spartacus, out of consideration for those less gifted amongst us, namely me, can you tell me in very simple terms how you fixed your GI issues enough to finish your taper?    Spell it out for me please.  Simple as possible.

 

You joined BB when you were at 3mgs to go and very fearful yes?    I presume you rushed thru the taper?  I don't think I have a fast taper in me.  I am not  mentally/pysically strong enough - being 61and unwell for a while now doesnt' help..      I need to taper slowly..    My stomach is my biggest worry right now and I really don't think PPI's are an option for me.  Too many side effects.      Even Gaviscon seems to make me feel yuk.

 

Hello wisernow,

 

I'm sorry I haven't been clear. It was a confusing and distressing time...one I don't like to think about much even now. So, here you go

 

Over the course of a year I had tapered from the equivalent of 100mg of diazepam and dropped trazodone, olanzapine and ECT. With 12mg of diazepam and 7.5mg of zopiclone to go I had to face the fact that my stomach was again only emptying properly when I vomited and that my weight was sliding out of control. At the same time the metoclopramide I had been using to control the nausea had stopped working and started making me Parkinsonian(as far as I could tell given my gross withdrawal symptoms).

 

I held my taper to have tests that established I had bleeding gastritis and complete gastroparesis(the undiagnosed problem that was mistaken for psychogenic nausea and vomiting in the awful beginning).

 

Over the next few months I tried everything; domperidone made me depressed and didn't work, low dose erythromycin gave me diarrhoea, mosapride sourced in Tokyo fed into my akathisia, PPIs just didn't help any more, ranitidine made me sicker, Gaviscon and other antacids were like fingers in a dyke, ondansetron melts made me more agitated, botulinus toxin injected endoscopically into my pylorus helped as long as the midazolam used for sedation was on board...and so on.

 

I took probiotics, vitamins, minerals, fish oils etc etc. and all the time I tried to eat.

 

It was all very traumatic and gloriously unsuccessful. Still losing weight and rapidly approaching tube feeding I took the only decision left to me and decided to rationalise the whole stupid process. I stopped everything except the 12mg of diazepam, including the zopiclone

 

And I started the simple lifestyle adjustments I have discussed here. I ate by the clock, I ate the same things, a gastroparetic low fat, low fibre, low residue diet(bananas, bread, tuna, chicken, peas, carrots and potatoes)and if I vomited I ate again. I used gravity and gentle exercise to help encourage my stomach to empty in the right direction, I avoided any reflux triggers peculiar to me, and I discovered ginger.

 

I limited medication to the very occasional ranitidine when my insides were on fire and the odd swig of Gaviscon before I lay down.

 

It took three months and many tears, partly because somewhere along the way I developed tolerance withdrawal because of the diazepam I was still stuck on, but I stabilised. I was keeping down 12-1300 calories, not losing weight and all my GI symptoms...heartburn, epigastric pain, nausea...were on the run.

 

So I took the opportunity to aim for more definitive treatment...I restarted my taper cutting 1mg a week until down to 3mg diazepam. The gains were two-fold; I made huge strides in cognition, I regained the use of my brain as DP/DR switched off and...I scared myself shitless.

 

And that would be when I came here. My first post was entitled "Crying, crying, crying" and I was.

 

The support of great people here gave me the strength to continue. I held my doubtful nerve and tapered from 3 to 2mg that week. After this I slowed to 0.4mg a week using liquid diazepam and jumped after three days at 0.4mg.

 

By the standards of the fora I tapered ludicrously quickly but I had compelling reasons. Tapering had made handling my GI tract difficult at best. I was gambling that, contrary to the advice I received from all medical specialties, the final straw for my dysfunctional system had been psychotropics and their withdrawal...and that nothing was more important for me, given I was in tolerance withdrawal anyway, than getting it over.

 

And it worked. A few weeks after jumping I ate with appetite and without repercussions for the first time in two years. I also developed benzo belly

 

I continued all my idiot lifestyle adjustments and was able to progressively expand my diet. Now, nearly a year out, I am a couple of stone heavier, have no GI symptoms unless submerged in a wave, and I enjoy food, a good, clean mixed diet, to the extent that I am beginning to worry about my overweight

 

Of all the things I did, the one that had the most effect was stopping the benzodiazepines...though offhand I don't recommend the way I did it.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[do...]]

Just came back from surgeon.  Endoscopy and gallbladder scan and biopsies all normal.  No evidence of acid reflux or gallbladder problems.  Could this all be ativan related???

[[sp...]]

Hey DA,

 

No evidence of acid reflux doesn't mean you don't have acid reflux...it may just not have done enough damage to show yet...it probably won't have if you take acid suppressants. Were you advised to discontinue these for a couple of weeks before endoscopy?

 

Reflux is increasingly common but oesophagitis and secondary oesophageal strictures less so since PPIs etc. It's this fact that makes the exponential rise in oesophageal cancer over the last few years disconcerting. PPIs and treating Helicobacter were meant to make this a thing of the past...and they haven't.

 

But yes, my experience is that even minor reflux is made impossibly painful in withdrawal.

 

All sources of GI pain amplify with a wave. It can be very difficult in the absence of windows to decide whether you need to do anything about such pain, whether it signifies a real problem or just hypersensitivity.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus

[[do...]]

Hi Spartacus:

 

I have been on a PPI since December.  That is when I started decreasing my ativan usage.  Have had wicked stomach issues even with being on tecta.  I also had a barium swallow and an abdomenal ultrasound in Decembef which showed nothing.  Just not sure how to proceed at this point.  Would like to be off the PPI but this past week have been in a wicked wave affecting my stomach after having three pretty decent weeks.

 

 

[[ov...]]

Thanks Spartacus for all your wonderful info.  Hubby found the crystallized ginger.  It is tasty!  Only problem because of the acid always being in the back of my mouth my throat spasms to either try and swallow it or expel it.  So I had to drink water to wash down the ginger.

 

Tell me how you eat this ginger, and at what times, eg:  before the meal or after the meal, or through the day?    And how much do you eat at one time?  I ate a piece before dinner and a piece after dinner.  Hubby also bought the ginger root.  Don't know how to use it though.  I know it is much stronger!

 

All of you with the aching bellies, I pray for you.

 

Spartacus you are a tough lady to w/d so rapidly!!

 

xo OC  :smitten:

[[wi...]]

 

:::::::Of all the things I did, the one that had the most effect was stopping the benzodiazepines...though offhand I don't recommend the way I did it.

 

How old are you Spartacus?  Just wondering if you are younger which would make getting off quickly that bit easier?    It's valium that is doing my stomach in.  But I don't have it in me to taper quickly.  I'm 61 yrs old.  Not as old as overcomer but we are both past our prime....  didn't feel that way for either of us till we got hit with benzo w/d.      I have to find other ways around this.    I'm really not strong enough to cope with the s/x of a fast taper.  What weight were you when you recommenced your taper at 12mgs?  How the hell did you put up with the w/d tapering 1mg per week?  Weren't you insane with pain and mental anguish?    What were the worst s/x you experienced during that fast taper?      We you  'off the planet'?  Could you eat?  Could you sleep?  Did you itch and sweat and feel terrible benzo flu constantly?   

 

Many have tried to taper fast and have had to reinstate but you managed to do it and do well as a result.  Fantastic outcome for you!

 

I am seeing the GI lady on Thursday, I have to find a way to help my stomach get thru this -  I will look at the alternatives to nexium.    For those of us without much medical knowledge it's really hard to know how to look after bodily malfunctioning under the weight of poisonous drugs we have to consume.        Diet and ginger tea are not sufficient to counteract poison in cases of very very sensitive stomachs that have to endure a slow taper.   

 

As if the nerve damage in my butt isnt enough to be dealing with???    It's like the benzo gods got confused and dished me out a double portion of major w/d issues.  Though if I can get thru the taper I think the gut will heal faster than the butt.  (gut & butt! - very poetic)

 

If I can find an PPI that doesn't interact with valium and that doesn't give me diarrhoea then surely it would help me deal with this relentless burning/nausea I have all day every day which will no doubt get less the lower in valium dose I get??

 

thanks  xxx

 

[[sp...]]

Hello Ladies,

 

I am 64 going on 3000 and no longer really good for my age

 

Wisernow

I weighed 42kg when I restarted my taper and in stabilising my stomach I had tipped myself into tolerance withdrawal. My symptoms were as bad as they were going to get, and had been for months. In the absence of reinstatement, or at least serious updosing, I had nothing to lose but my chains...and I knew that I could do this thing only once.

 

My wallpaper symptoms throughout were the ones that mirtazapine gave me in the beginning...akathisia/anxiety/restlessness/agitation/insomnia/mania. I already had anorexia, nausea and vomiting from the post-infective gastroparesis that began the circus.

 

Benzodiazepines were meant to rescue this situation. In fact they compounded my agitation, particularly a gross paradoxical reaction to clonazepam, and screwed with my mental state. I became suicidal...this was to become the other reason I had to get off. In time, despite never sedating me, they depressed my HPA axis and in withdrawal I gathered around me all the joys of the cortisol crazies.

 

I had all the physical symptoms I have seen mentioned here(including as you know the chronic pelvic pain)...but then I first developed most of them not in tapering but when my doctors didn't believe I was having a paradoxical reaction to clonazepam. They felt I just needed more...and "better"...olanzapine, trazodone, zopiclone. I was the person on the equivalent of 100mg of diazepam, 150mg of trazodone, 1.5mg of olanzapine and 7.5mg of zopiclone who couldn't sleep...at all.

 

Tapering, however fast or slow, didn't make a lot of difference...I truly believed it couldn't make me worse and, apart from a minor post-cut blip, mostly it didn't...apart from the awful suicidal ideation that I'd had since the beginning. It hardened with each cut and it took me a while to learn to handle this.

 

For the first year I coped by disconnecting...DP and DR were my friends and I was literally off the planet and totally dysfunctional...and then, as my dose dropped below 10mg, improved cognition brought me back to earth and I landed here. The rest is history.

 

As for PPIs, I must invoke the "we are all different" clause. They never helped my gastroparetic reflux, they couldn't. It had nothing to do with acid and they themselves slow gastric emptying. But neither did they help the burning pain...and they should have done this, at least before my stomach had chance to habituate to them(reflexly make more acid in response to blocking).

 

Since I began having windows and waves it's become apparent this burning is very much part of my withdrawal symptoms...I'm not even sure it has anything to do with normal reflux, not sure it is heartburn. And, as I mentioned, I'm not sure whether it's hypersensitivity, just more sensory overload comparable to hyperacusis, or it needs treating...which is fortunate because I have no idea how I would go about treating it. In a window I don't have it, ever, at all...and that's reassuring. I worried obsessively I was going to perforate or haemorrhage before.

 

Overcomer

I suspect I'm becoming addicted to crystallised ginger...I don't allow myself much sugar apart from medicinal purposes. I try to limit myself to one chunk eaten with food. In a bad wave, on an empty stomach, it feels like it burns briefly but then everything does, and so do spices normally(in extremis I forgot that some of the things that happened to me were, in fact, normal).

 

If pushed I peel and grate root ginger and stick it in the most unlikely foods, savoury and sweet.

 

When the oesophageal spasms were a pain I started to chew things a lot...but within reason. It helps with saliva production if nothing else, and it's saliva that normally clears the oesophagus.

 

Take care Ladies.

 

Love, spartacus

 

 

[[wi...]]

::::I became suicidal...this was to become the other reason I had to get off. In time, despite never sedating me, they depressed my HPA axis and in withdrawal I gathered around me all the joys of the cortisol crazies.

 

Spartacus,  Gosh you are not young.  Overcomer is 66.    I am 61.  I thought you must be much younger to go for broke and get off fast.    Plus you were so low in weight.   

 

What do you mean by cortisol crazies?  Can you tell me what cortisol crazies are/what cortisol did to you?     

 

You don't recommend anyone doing what you did but you made the right choice - though it sounds like it was a gruelling year that followed your last dose.  Am I overly concerned about how my stomach will survive a slow taper?      I get suicide ideation because I cannot see how I can get thru this.    And yes I have felt so much more depressed since c/0 to valium.    The mornings are horrendous.  Life is nothing like it was... every day is difficult with severe butt pain and nausea/chest burning. 

 

The neurologist said to taper slowly.  One problem for me is over heating.  I think it was this ridiculous over heating that caused the nerve damage to my butt - and continues to make my skin feel like it's detaching from my body.    I had really terrible paresthesia which is when the butt pain started.    Today I went to an acupuncturist (a first time for everything).    I told her nothing so was surprised when she said that mine is an issue of over heating.    I still get it at night when I wake up.    Hot flushes that makes anything I experienced in menopause look like a walk in the park.      Is that cortisol?  I would love to know why it happens and when might it stop?  When I get to a lower dose of valium maybe?  I don't know how anyone on a valium taper talks about sleeping ok but some seem to. 

 

Maybe I just need to get something from the doc for nausea for my stomach.  The acupuncturist told me to avoid ginger (I never said I was using it) but according Chinese medicine it contributes to bodily over heating.  Ginger has been my constant companion these last few days....  D'oh.      Everything I've read from this thread tells me not to go onto any antacids.  I suspect I cannot tolerate them anyway because they give me diarrhoea.   

 

Oh and the acupuncturist told me that my mind is working too fast and I'm causing myself to be sicker because I'm not allowing my mind to rest.    Fair call on her part.    Anyway I had pins in my butt that were vibrating but tonight I'm still sitting on hot coals.    She says she will give it three weeks with me and if it doesnt'  help she won't continue.   

 

Thank you for sharing your situation with us.    Do you get lots of windows now?   

 

xx

[[or...]]

wiser any luck finding a PT? Many of them can do trigger point release. That's all you have to ask about when you call up. It's pretty common now. My butt pain (which also felt like hot coals in some areas) resolved with tpr.

 

Worth a shot? I would rather have someone manipulate the muscles/ligaments of my butt than have needles stuck in it!! Just my preference, of course.

 

And if you have overwhelming nausea, there's always Zofran (prescription). I lived on Zofran last summer. Also Phenergan (prescription also). 

 

Okatz

[[ma...]]

Okatz,

 

Did the Zofran constipate you or did your body adjust to it? 

 

Mama2

[[sp...]]

::::I became suicidal...this was to become the other reason I had to get off. In time, despite never sedating me, they depressed my HPA axis and in withdrawal I gathered around me all the joys of the cortisol crazies.

 

Spartacus,  Gosh you are not young.  Overcomer is 66.    I am 61.  I thought you must be much younger to go for broke and get off fast.    Plus you were so low in weight.   

 

What do you mean by cortisol crazies?  Can you tell me what cortisol crazies are/what cortisol did to you?     

 

You don't recommend anyone doing what you did but you made the right choice - though it sounds like it was a gruelling year that followed your last dose.  Am I overly concerned about how my stomach will survive a slow taper?      I get suicide ideation because I cannot see how I can get thru this.    And yes I have felt so much more depressed since c/0 to valium.    The mornings are horrendous.  Life is nothing like it was... every day is difficult with severe butt pain and nausea/chest burning. 

 

The neurologist said to taper slowly.  One problem for me is over heating.  I think it was this ridiculous over heating that caused the nerve damage to my butt - and continues to make my skin feel like it's detaching from my body.    I had really terrible paresthesia which is when the butt pain started.    Today I went to an acupuncturist (a first time for everything).    I told her nothing so was surprised when she said that mine is an issue of over heating.    I still get it at night when I wake up.    Hot flushes that makes anything I experienced in menopause look like a walk in the park.      Is that cortisol?  I would love to know why it happens and when might it stop?  When I get to a lower dose of valium maybe?  I don't know how anyone on a valium taper talks about sleeping ok but some seem to. 

 

Maybe I just need to get something from the doc for nausea for my stomach.  The acupuncturist told me to avoid ginger (I never said I was using it) but according Chinese medicine it contributes to bodily over heating.  Ginger has been my constant companion these last few days....  D'oh.      Everything I've read from this thread tells me not to go onto any antacids.  I suspect I cannot tolerate them anyway because they give me diarrhoea.   

 

Oh and the acupuncturist told me that my mind is working too fast and I'm causing myself to be sicker because I'm not allowing my mind to rest.    Fair call on her part.    Anyway I had pins in my butt that were vibrating but tonight I'm still sitting on hot coals.    She says she will give it three weeks with me and if it doesnt'  help she won't continue.   

 

Thank you for sharing your situation with us.    Do you get lots of windows now?   

 

xx

 

Hello wisernow,

 

The cortisol crazies happen when your HPA axis is released from benzodiazepine suppression and the adrenals start pumping out excess cortisol, the stress hormone, in the absence of an identifiable stress.

 

It's a catabolic steroid that normally prepares you for the waking day and then is only produced in response to stress to prepare the frightened body for flight or fight.

 

Prolonged abnormal elevation in withdrawal is responsible for some of the more unlovely symptoms we get, acute and chronic;

 

1.  Early wakening as production kicks in around 4.00am, peaks around 8.00am, lowest midnight to 4.00am...gross mornings

2.  Anxiety/restlessness, adrenaline surges, raised BP, fast hyperdynamic pulse

3.  Muscle wasting...lean tissue is sacrificed to make glucose for the brain

4.  Hair loss, inessential activity so it's shut down

5.  Collagen loss...wrinkles

6.  Reduced calcium and bone formation...osteoporosis

7.  Poor wound healing...mouth ulcers

8.  Increased gastric acid, delayed gastric emptying, nausea, dry mouth

9.  Diarrhoea

10. Impaired immune system..thrush

11. Impaired learning

12. Inhibited memory retrieval

13. Can shut down reproduction

14. Increased rate of miscarriage

15. Can cause carbohydrate craving...sugar for the brain again

16. Reduced insulin sensitivity raising blood sugar...for the brain again

17. Daytime fluid retention, night time peeing...it's an anti-diuretic

18  Skin circulation cut down, diverting blood to muscles...interferes with temperature regulation/sweating

 

And I think that's enough of that for now

 

I'll PM you about your other questions but wanted to write this now. It helped me to know why some of the major physical and mental stuff was happening. It helped me greatly to KNOW it would stop.

 

Because it does. For me this was what changed acute withdrawal into recovery.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus xxx

 

[[je...]]

Hi Spartacus,

 

Great info! Do you think when the cortisol gets under control we will be healed? Is that hormone responsible for most of our sx? Thanks so much, jenny

[[or...]]

mama yes the Zofran eventually constipated me. I used a lot of lactulose at that time of my taper. It's prescription here but OTC in Canada. Don't know where you are. Great drug, though. Zofran that is. I can take it now once in awhile without the big C. Lactulose is a great drug, too.

 

Okatz

[[gu...]]

 

Hello wisernow,

 

The cortisol crazies happen when your HPA axis is released from benzodiazepine suppression and the adrenals start pumping out excess cortisol, the stress hormone, in the absence of an identifiable stress.

 

It's a catabolic steroid that normally prepares you for the waking day and then is only produced in response to stress to prepare the frightened body for flight or fight.

 

Prolonged abnormal elevation in withdrawal is responsible for some of the more unlovely symptoms we get, acute and chronic;

 

1.  Early wakening as production kicks in around 4.00am, peaks around 8.00am, lowest midnight to 4.00am...gross mornings

2.  Anxiety/restlessness, adrenaline surges, raised BP, fast hyperdynamic pulse

3.  Muscle wasting...lean tissue is sacrificed to make glucose for the brain

4.  Hair loss, inessential activity so it's shut down

5.  Collagen loss...wrinkles

6.  Reduced calcium and bone formation...osteoporosis

7.  Poor wound healing...mouth ulcers

8.  Increased gastric acid, delayed gastric emptying, nausea, dry mouth

9.  Diarrhoea

10. Impaired immune system..thrush

11. Impaired learning

12. Inhibited memory retrieval

13. Can shut down reproduction

14. Increased rate of miscarriage

15. Can cause carbohydrate craving...sugar for the brain again

16. Reduced insulin sensitivity raising blood sugar...for the brain again

17. Daytime fluid retention, night time peeing...it's an anti-diuretic

18  Skin circulation cut down, diverting blood to muscles...interferes with temperature regulation/sweating

 

And I think that's enough of that for now

 

I'll PM you about your other questions but wanted to write this now. It helped me to know why some of the major physical and mental stuff was happening. It helped me greatly to KNOW it would stop.

 

Because it does. For me this was what changed acute withdrawal into recovery.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus xxx

 

Great post! I'm also thinking of the thyroid being suppressed causing s/x like slow metabolism and hot-low body temperature. As well as the parathyroid causing calcium loss, saggy skin and the like.

How long did it take you to feel improvements on the HPA axis imbalance?

[[ov...]]

Hi Spartacus and all:  So far the ginger is not working, dang.  The problem being I cannot suck on anything.  There is always a spasm going on behind my tongue in my throat, ENT said it was anxiety, hmm really.  When I had my barium swallow test in Oct, I could see the fluid go down into my stomach and then part of it come back up my throat into my mouth.  I had to spit some out in a cup.  The techs at the hospital said they have never seen any one do that before.  Oh yeah.  Anyway, what I am getting at is, any sucking on candy or chewing of gum causes the throat to constrict and bring up acid.  And you are right, it is possible for some bile to be there also. 

 

Another problem is I have NO saliva.  I was diagnosed with Sjogren's syndrome and fibromyalgia in May 2013.  Of course I was in K w/d at the time.  Tapering crazily as advised by my pdoc.  I feel like shooting him.  Of course all the symptoms of these syndromes can also be s/xs of benzo w/d and tramadol w/d.  So who can really say.  I definitely think that the benzos and my polydrugging affected my immune system.  Hopefully it all goes away when my taper is complete!  Like I am going to be a miracle BB, lol.

 

Like Wisernow I get SI because of all my s/xs.  As the acid gets worse, so does the parathesia.  I also broke out with sores on my head from stress.  Wowie zowie, I am a mess.  Hopefully the outside stress is gone for now, and I can relax a little and maybe some of my s/xs will tame down. 

 

xo OC  :smitten:

[[sp...]]

Hello  All,

 

My message overall would be, "Only believe", and I say that from bitter experience of doing the opposite.

 

Jenny, I think when the cortisol gets under control, when the HPA axis achieves some sort of balance and stops unbalancing everything else, we are not necessarily healed but we are able to heal. Our bodies are finally able to deal more easily and more definitively with whatever physical and mental damage its crazy overdrive has inflicted.

 

 

guitarman, as you imply I'm sure the truth is much more complicated than any story I or anyone else can tell, if only to include knock-on effects on the rest of the known endocrine system. My multiple thyroid nodules may conceivably have happened without the help of withdrawal, I can't know, but many here track thyroid function tests that are a bit out of kilter but of doubtful significance.

 

In the end, all I needed to "know"(or more accurately accept)was that, once released from benzodiazepine suppression, my systems were going to put me through a difficult time while they struggled to rebalance. And the best thing I could do was stop bloody interfering.

 

Like many here, feeling the need for change and control, feeling the need not to be a helpless victim, or simply feeling the need to relieve my aching body, I couldn't resist isolating a symptom from the whole and clumsily addressing that.

 

It didn't matter whether I was taking magnesium for my muscles, vitamin D for my depression, or melatonin for my mind, my growing list of "hypersensitivies" was my body's way of saying, "Don't, just don't". After the event it's obvious to me that if balance was the desired end point anything that I did that weighed-in heavily and abnormally on either side of a dynamic equation was not going to be helpful.

 

And to some extent this applied to the physical symptoms I had in spades. If any physical parameter was being changed by out-of-the box cortisol levels, even when I experienced it as a pain in the bum(literally), suppressing this change was all too likely to persuade my HPA axis or one of its branches to greater efforts to achieve its desired, if ill-conceived, ends.

 

It took me four months from my last dose of diazepam before I began to understand this "truth"...it took the advent of my very first real window and a break from the madness. Then I "knew"...I knew the best I could do was a good, clean, mixed diet, moderate exercise within my tolerances, rest and relaxation if this was possible and as many happy distractions as I could invent to take my attention off meddling. 

 

And then I fell down a flight of stairs fracturing pelvis, back, right hand and right arm and regressing to a state where I was going to have to learn it all over again

 

But I made it...and second time round was easier because I practised a policy of minimal "definitive" intervention from the start.

 

Silver linings suck.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus x

 

 

[[wi...]]

Spartacus said:    Prolonged abnormal elevation in withdrawal is responsible for some of the more unlovely symptoms we get, acute and chronic;

 

1.  Early wakening as production kicks in around 4.00am, peaks around 8.00am, lowest midnight to 4.00am...gross mornings

2.  Anxiety/restlessness, adrenaline surges, raised BP, fast hyperdynamic pulse

3.  Muscle wasting...lean tissue is sacrificed to make glucose for the brain

4.  Hair loss, inessential activity so it's shut down

5.  Collagen loss...wrinkles

6.  Reduced calcium and bone formation...osteoporosis

7.  Poor wound healing...mouth ulcers

8.  Increased gastric acid, delayed gastric emptying, nausea, dry mouth

9.  Diarrhoea

10. Impaired immune system..thrush

11. Impaired learning

12. Inhibited memory retrieval

13. Can shut down reproduction

14. Increased rate of miscarriage

15. Can cause carbohydrate craving...sugar for the brain again

16. Reduced insulin sensitivity raising blood sugar...for the brain again

17. Daytime fluid retention, night time peeing...it's an anti-diuretic

18  Skin circulation cut down, diverting blood to muscles...interferes with temperature regulation/sweating

 

_____________________________

 

Spart,  for those of us who are planning a slow taper, how bad is it to live with the above for say 18months?    I'm currently dropping .5 in a bit over 3 weeks via titration.  I'm doing this because I am not particularly stable and I have little tolerance for pain.    Apart from the incredible butt pain and stomach problems.... I just don't want any more discomfort on top of that, well apart from the depression and fear that is off the chart.          Please lie to me if necessary but is there any benefit to a slow taper?  At the moment I feel like *&^% on 8.5mgs of V, but I feel that I'm simply not capable of getting off any faster than slowly.    I have quite a lot on the list including sores in my mouth, hair loss, fluid retention, temperature irregulation, early wakening, oestoporosis  etc etc etc.   

 

Does none of the above reduce as the dose gets lower?      To be honest I'm not sure that a great deal of this is overly reversible post 60 yrs of age!    :-(

 

 

 

[[sp...]]

Hello wisernow,

 

I think my point would be that, however long it takes, you pretty well are going to have to live through the cortisol crazies in some form or other while your HPA axis rebalances...but that the end result is so worth it.

 

When this process really gets under way would be individual, but I suspect it's that time when someone finds it hard or impossible to stabilise between cuts. Most people seem to have "hit the wall" by the lower doses, well before actually jumping. You may well be adjusting already.

 

The evidence of many here is that the pain may be inevitable but the severity can sometimes be handled by slowing down the taper. This option simply wasn't available to me...I was fighting a losing battle with gastroparesis compounded by withdrawal, and later I was in tolerance withdrawal.

 

We ARE all different.

 

As to how possible it is to live with the Crazies for months. I can only say that my first experience of the syndrome was not due to HPA suppression by benzodiazepines. It was a direct result of a gross reaction to mirtazapine...and later clonazepam...and then olanzapine.

 

This meant two things...when ill-advised benzodiazepines did finally bugger with my HPA axis enough to give me the cortisol crazies in withdrawal, the whole syndrome was not exactly unknown to me...I'd had it before. In all I must have spent close to three years with some form of chemically induced stress.

 

And, of course, like most women I'd also spent the odd few months going through the menopause, biologically a scarily similar process to withdrawal.

 

Did you have a problematic menopause wiser? Because if you did you have already done this once, you can do it again.

 

Only this time the changes do reverse. I'll never be young and beautiful again but my memory and cognition are back to normal for me, my hair is growing back, I'm losing the hagard look and my muscles are as good as I'm prepared to exercise to make them.

 

And during a wave I would deny all this absolutely

 

Take heart,

 

spartacus

 

 

[[ma...]]

Sparticus,

 

I appreciate all the good information here from you.

 

I have been experiencing early satiety and nausea for months.  Coming on 8 months out in a few days.  Does this still sound like withdrawals to you.  I still have the weak legs and the disequilibrium with it.  I was wondering if I should go for gastric emptying  test.  I have already had an upper endoscopy and nothing was found.

 

Like Wiser, I'm concerned that this may be problematic post 60.

 

Thanks

 

Mama2

[[sp...]]

Sparticus,

 

I appreciate all the good information here from you.

 

I have been experiencing early satiety and nausea for months.  Coming on 8 months out in a few days.  Does this still sound like withdrawals to you.  I still have the weak legs and the disequilibrium with it.  I was wondering if I should go for gastric emptying  test.  I have already had an upper endoscopy and nothing was found.

 

Like Wiser, I'm concerned that this may be problematic post 60.

 

Thanks

 

Mama2

 

Hello Mama,

 

Gastroparesis is interesting, horrible but interesting.

 

It occurs relatively often in babies and children, often following an infection like rotavirus. The rule in this age group is that it resolves; it may take months or even years, but it does get better.

 

Many adults, like me, unless they have vagus nerve damage secondary to trauma or diabetes, give a similar history of infective gastroenteritis followed by gastroparesis. The difference is that in adults it seems to be progressive, often leading to horribly invasive treatments and, in up to 7% of cases, death.

 

In considering the differences between the two groups, I joined the usual self-help groups. It didn't take much to establish that one of the big differences in their management was that the average adult with this miserable condition ends up on psychotropic medication, often both antidepressant and benzodiazepine. Babies on the other hand, even in our enthusiastically mind altering society, are rarely "treated" in this way.

 

My experience was that gastroparesis was difficult to manage without psychotropics, but it was bloody impossible with...and that this effect was magnified in withdrawal.

 

I gambled that this deterioration would disappear with the benzos, and I hoped that if I then stayed off all such poisons my gastroparesis, like that of babes and innocents, would at least not progress and might well resolve.

 

So far I have proved half right. I am back to baseline gastroparesis(early satiety, post prandial and morning nausea), possibly improved because I'm better at managing it. I still have time to be completely right.

 

Your question would be does withdrawal cause gastroparesis? It certainly slows gastric emptying and this might show on gastric motility tests. My own showed that in the time of the test not one drop of milk or radioactive cornflake made it out of my paralysed stomach. Whether it could do this, I don't know.

 

But it would be interesting to know. It is on the rise and this is always assumed to be related to the increase in diabetes but this evidence is not strong. Type II diabetes rarely causes gastroparesis and it's that sort of diabetes that accounts for most of the increase. It remains possible that Type II diabetes is getting worse in an obese, sugary environment and therefore causing more damage.

 

All I can say is the test is safe and, in my experience, it does help in managing nausea to have some idea where it's coming from.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus

 

 

[[gu...]]

 

guitarman, as you imply I'm sure the truth is much more complicated than any story I or anyone else can tell, if only to include knock-on effects on the rest of the known endocrine system. My multiple thyroid nodules may conceivably have happened without the help of withdrawal, I can't know, but many here track thyroid function tests that are a bit out of kilter but of doubtful significance.

 

In the end, all I needed to "know"(or more accurately accept)was that, once released from benzodiazepine suppression, my systems were going to put me through a difficult time while they struggled to rebalance. And the best thing I could do was stop bloody interfering.

 

Like many here, feeling the need for change and control, feeling the need not to be a helpless victim, or simply feeling the need to relieve my aching body, I couldn't resist isolating a symptom from the whole and clumsily addressing that.

 

It didn't matter whether I was taking magnesium for my muscles, vitamin D for my depression, or melatonin for my mind, my growing list of "hypersensitivies" was my body's way of saying, "Don't, just don't". After the event it's obvious to me that if balance was the desired end point anything that I did that weighed-in heavily and abnormally on either side of a dynamic equation was not going to be helpful.

 

And to some extent this applied to the physical symptoms I had in spades. If any physical parameter was being changed by out-of-the box cortisol levels, even when I experienced it as a pain in the bum(literally), suppressing this change was all too likely to persuade my HPA axis or one of its branches to greater efforts to achieve its desired, if ill-conceived, ends.

 

It took me four months from my last dose of diazepam before I began to understand this "truth"...it took the advent of my very first real window and a break from the madness. Then I "knew"...I knew the best I could do was a good, clean, mixed diet, moderate exercise within my tolerances, rest and relaxation if this was possible and as many happy distractions as I could invent to take my attention off meddling. 

 

And then I fell down a flight of stairs fracturing pelvis, back, right hand and right arm and regressing to a state where I was going to have to learn it all over again

 

But I made it...and second time round was easier because I practised a policy of minimal "definitive" intervention from the start.

 

Silver linings suck.

 

Take care,

 

spartacus x

 

Spartacus, sorry to hear about your fractures. I can't imagine how awful that must have been on top of all the rest of things.

I can totally relate to what you say above. Even though not as extreme, my body also has told me a few times "Don't do this, no now at least" when I tried some "alternative" remedies for my various ailments during the peaks of my w/d sxs. I've had to basically brave it out most of the time. Nothing seemed to work for or help improved my sxs.

I also felt the my systems, especially the endocrine, went out of whack after removing most of the drug out of me. I think the difference started to be quite clear to me as soon as I went below 1mg, which I think must have been the minimal dose my body was prepared to carry on as the same with.

Of course there were things wrong before tapering but as you said, suppressed by this drug, so they started to come up to the surface and prompted me to deal with them.

Thank God for that, or I don't know how I would have ended up some time in the near future.

[[sp...]]

Hey guitarman,

 

All part of life's rich tapestry...so they say.

 

I'll be thinking of you over the next couple of days. You will be welcome to the Land of the Free

 

Take care,

 

spartacus