Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group

[[Ja...]]

28 days. BP is 129/89 which is the best so far this week. I feel pretty normal. No anxiety at all. I slept great last night and had no weird stuff at bedtime. I wound up developing this weird burning on my lips and in my throat and stomach after the wawa chicken sandwich yesterday. This happened to me after eating breaded chicken a few times last week as well. It’s not the chicken but must be something else in it. Then this morning I have been having a lot of diarrhea which I am thinking is probably related to that food sensitivity. That is definitely from withdrawal as I did not have any noticeable food allergies before taking these meds or even while tapering. This has started strictly after completely jumping.

 

Another weird issue that I have is that if I talk too much it seems like it overstimulates my vagus nerve(just a theory) and I get pretty sick from it. I get chest pains, heart palps, muscle cramping in my abdomen, chest tightness, and the biggest thing is severe lightheadedness. This has been one of my major withdrawal symptoms throughout my taper. It is important to note that I had a lot of weird vagus nerve related issues since my reaction to biaxin 24 years ago. Talking to much would cause fatigue and would increase acid production in my stomach. It has been exacerbated so much by this withdrawal though that I have to actually plan and track how much I am talking throughout the day and week. It’s flared up again now that I have jumped. I’m sure it will get back to baseline soon. It’s a symptom of my antibiotic injury that has gone completely into remission many times before and I was in complete remission before this whole benzo nonsense.

 

So it seems like today is pretty calm so far. Fingers crosses.

[[Ja...]]

Day 29. So yesterday was a little bit rough. When I say a little bit I mean a little. I have this issue with what I guess is my vagus nerve that is being irritated or stimulated by talking. I talked to my mother and father on the phone yesterday morning for about an hour and it messed me up. After that I was dizzy and off for the rest of the day. It gives me this feeling in my chest which is specific to withdrawal and if I had to make up a name for it I would probably call it chest nausea or heart nausea. It’s not really nausea as I don’t want or need to throw up but it’s like a feeling up butterflies in your stomach but in your chest instead. Very weird. I don’t get any weakness from it and can run up and down stairs or even ride a bicycle but it feels miserable. So then we went to a party. I did not really want to go because of how I was feeling. I was afraid of talking more. Anyway, I got there and had a blast. I was talking and joking around and laughing for hours. It was really affecting me but I was having so much fun I couldn’t stop. I ate whatever I wanted and am happy to say I did not have any adverse reactions to anything I ate. Surprisingly the diarrhea this morning is minimal and no cramping or pain or anything which is surprising considering all the bbq and chips and cupcakes and nonsense I ate. I drove there and back which was necessary on the way home cuz my wife had a few too many. Lucky for her I am a built in designated driver now as I have not drank a drop in the past three years and won’t for many more years if ever again. I have zero social anxiety so it’s not really necessary for me to have fun at a party. I show up loose and then everyone else has to drink to catch up with me, lol. Anyway, despite thinking I was literally going to black out a few times I never did and pushed through and wound up having a great time despite my symptoms. This morning I should be back at work but I decided to call out and I called out for the whole week. I probably could work today but I want to rest my voice and I really don’t want to sit in the traffic going into the city with this stomach stuff. I may not actually stay out the whole week but I want a couple of symptom free days or at least symptom minimal days so that I feel I can trust my body again. I have to work at dangerous heights with high voltage a lot and being that I seem to be recovering quickly from what I hope was the peak of this jump that hit me last week I want to give it a few more days before putting myself in the dangerous environment that I work in. So far I feel decent today. A little mild bit of residual “chest nausea” and I am going to use this time off to do chores and take a vocal rest to try to calm things down. Speaking of calm once again today I have zero anxiety which is great. I’m just a little tired because initially I was going to try to go to work and set my alarm early after going to bed late but then woke up and called out. I have always been the type that once I’m up I’m up so it is what it is. For sleep I took 6 mg of melatonin again. I have been taking 3 mg an hour before bed and another 3 mg at bedtime. Keep in mind that when this whole benzo debacle started three and a half years ago I was put on benzos to replace the 5 mg melatonin that I was already taking as the melatonin started giving me nightmares from the ptsd(this no longer happens). So having to take melatonin to sleep is just a return to my baseline and not indicative of withdrawal related insomnia. I am confident that as time goes on that I will have more and more nights where I will be able to sleep without taking melatonin as was the case on many night before and I have already had one night this month where I slept without taking anything. So that’s it for now.

[[Ja...]]

Day 33.

What a great day! It was beatiful outside. I spent the day in the garage building furniture. I am so happy with how I set this shop up. It’s the best set up I have ever had and I am glad I got to enjoy it today. The weather was perfect. I felt great today. I did get a little fever around 2 pm but it was gone pretty quickly. BP was 129/79 which is almost back to my normal 120/80. I had no anxiety at all. I had a little tiredness but I think that’s because I slept like crap. My wife was tossing and turning all night for some reason and it kept waking me up. Around 2 am I just went and slept in the guest bedroom and got about 5 hours sleep after that. I took the motorcycle out to get lunch and I almost didn’t come back because it was so nice but I was getting so much done with my furniture builds that I wanted to get back to the shop. About an hour before dinner I got light headed and loopy which is something that I am getting in withdrawal, probably blood sugar related. I just finished dinner and feel good again. Now I’m just sitting with my feet up listening to bluegrass and I’m very relaxed. I really gotta get up though and take a shower to get all the sawdust out of my hair before bed. I still had the stomach stuff this morning but it didn’t take up much of my day. I wish I could say that things are getting better but I know better than to say that. I am sure there will be more rough days. I am expecting tomorrow to suck because I know how weird these withdrawals are in that you can feel great one day or one minute for that matter and then be thrown back into hell for no apparent reason. Either way today was the best day I’ve had in weeks and that’s a win.

[[Ox...]]

It's great to read you are doing so good Jack! You are starting to get there I guess. Great job. I still have your tapering-schedule

 

I came here today - to be honest - to vent. I'm having symptoms that could be related to an earlier Covid infection so my familiy doc referred me to a lung specialist and she found some things in my blood that where abnormal. So I went there last week and she suggested an astma-test. Part of this was a test where they give you histamine to see how you react. And yes. This means she wanted me to stop with the Mirtazapine.

 

I tried to reason with her, but she referred me back to my familiy doctor. It annoyed me, I am very capable to decide what is best for me and I don't need the doc to do it for me. But anyway, my family doc totally agreed and now they can't run this test. I'm not sure how they will respond, but I'm not going to sacrifice my mental health for a astma test.

 

She also commented, after I said I used it for my sleep, that I might need a sleep study. Well. I think if they gave me a sleep study the first time I had problems (some 20 years ago), then yes, that would definitely been better. I suspect I have DSPS, you know, the night owl version.

 

But it's not all bad. I just posted in my benzo-free celebration topic how some things are really starting to get better. But I still have a long way to go I think. I hope the healing will continue, and one day I will also start my taper-journey.

 

I'm not sure if anyone will read this, but I hope somebody will comment.

[[Ja...]]

I would have done the same thing as you. No way in hell would I have cold turkeyed Remeron for something like that. Doctors are so dangerous.I wish I could go back to when I didn’t know that. Thank God for the internet. If I had gone through this in the 80’s I’d be throwing up and shaking in a padded room right now while the doctors “helped” me.

[Guest [is...]]

I would have done the same thing as you. No way in hell would I have cold turkeyed Remeron for something like that. Doctors are so dangerous.I wish I could go back to when I didn’t know that. Thank God for the internet. If I had gone through this in the 80’s I’d be throwing up and shaking in a padded room right now while the doctors “helped” me.

 

So true Jack, just think how many people never made it because they thought they were going insane. SMH

[[Ox...]]

Oh, that's so true! And, funny as your reply is, so many people get caught in that webb. And for that reason, One flew over the cucko's nest was truly a great movie.

[[ja...]]

I am trying a mirtazapine taper once again.  I got a scale on Amazon and when it arrived I calibrated it and it seems the average weight of my 7.5 pills is .75.  Before the scale arrived I had cut pills to 3/4 and had been taking them for 4 days so I used the scale to make up a couple weeks worth of doses that weigh .57 or about equal to the 3/4 pill.  I have been doing that for a week now and I am getting headache, tinnitus, nausea and some anxiety but by early afternoon things settle down considerably until about 8 the following morning.  I usually take my dose between 9 and 930 at night.  Sleep has been rocky for the past few nights, getting about 5 hours of broken sleep and am bothered during the night by internal vibrations or tremors around my hips, lower back and rib cage, not painful but bothersome enough to not be able to sleep through them.  My intent is to try to stay at the .57 weighted dose for another week or two and try to see if sleep gets better.  I was put on this med for insomnia and my last taper failed because of the insomnia so I am hopeful that smaller and slower cuts will help me get off this time.  I’m thinking that I will need to let sleep be my guide as to when I can cut again but hopeful to be able to cut in two more weeks by about 10 percent and go from there.  I would appreciate any guidance anyone can provide, thanks.

[[le...]]

Does this help with chemical  anxiety at all, is it hard to come off. Thinking trying something else if get to 3 years without lot more progress. Has eased bit from acute but very slow progress. Am trying supplement and pro biotic helping bit but very slow progress. Had adverse reaction to SSRI's but have read they are stronger than the other AD's?

[[Ox...]]

Basten: you are cutting 0,1 ml every week which is a very fast taper. Maybe you can discuss slowing your taper down with your GP?

 

Jasmin: I believe Jack said earlier in this topic that reducing with 10% increment is what the manufactorer recommends. Takes a while before you notice the full effects of your taper, but if you stabilise you can cut another 10%. Might take 3-4 weeks. I think that is what I will do if I start tapering. This will take while, but it's slow and steady.

 

Leann: Mirtazapine does more for anxiety I think then SSRI's, but I am no doc so can't say for sure

[Guest [Ba...]]

So 0.1ml reduction a week too fast? Im at 0.6 now. My psych even said just stop!!! I convinced gp to give me the liquid here UK. im still on 0.5 clon. Its bad enough now so clon will be dreadful. I only took z etc for insomnia. I only got panic attacks when they ctd my clin from 1 to 0.5. Ive realised that years ago i had benzo clon not that long. But i stopped when pancreatitis and overdosed on it. It started that id pee and my thighs would burn. After od i never took..then every b.m.pain spread all up my back. Enough to send me on bus to a and e. Id had a heart incident. Then later my abdo so big i couldnt pee  unkess i lay flat. May have been benzo belly. Then pain all up back still after b.m. a and e again blood wasnt clotting. Hospitsl a week. Id eat pee pain spread avain all up back burning. Got worse in day everybtime ate then peed. Crying bad. Nurses thought i was nuts when i tried to explain. So i now know it was all from benzo and i dread coming off it after 4 years

[[Ja...]]

So 0.1ml reduction a week too fast? Im at 0.6 now. My psych even said just stop!!! I convinced gp to give me the liquid here UK. im still on 0.5 clon. Its bad enough now so clon will be dreadful. I only took z etc for insomnia. I only got panic attacks when they ctd my clin from 1 to 0.5. Ive realised that years ago i had benzo clon not that long. But i stopped when pancreatitis and overdosed on it. It started that id pee and my thighs would burn. After od i never took..then every b.m.pain spread all up my back. Enough to send me on bus to a and e. Id had a heart incident. Then later my abdo so big i couldnt pee  unkess i lay flat. May have been benzo belly. Then pain all up back still after b.m. a and e again blood wasnt clotting. Hospitsl a week. Id eat pee pain spread avain all up back burning. Got worse in day everybtime ate then peed. Crying bad. Nurses thought i was nuts when i tried to explain. So i now know it was all from benzo and i dread coming off it after 4 years

 

Way too fast. It should be more like .1 ml per month and even that will only work until about 7.5 mg and then you’d have to do .1 ml every 2 months or so. Most of our tapers here took years not months.

[Guest [Ba...]]

Years!!! Ok i dont have years. Its a slow torture but yes will be worse at rate gp told me. Thankyou. Amazing my 79 year old friend was in it  Reduced by missing nights but she was lucky as was also on trazadone cymbalta which must have protected her. I am prediabetic due to what mirtaz has done to me and i atill am constantly hungry and its tough as dont want diabetis. I will see how i go ...but time isnt on my side.

[[Ja...]]

Years!!! Ok i dont have years. Its a slow torture but yes will be worse at rate gp told me. Thankyou. Amazing my 79 year old friend was in it  Reduced by missing nights but she was lucky as was also on trazadone cymbalta which must have protected her. I am prediabetic due to what mirtaz has done to me and i atill am constantly hungry and its tough as dont want diabetis. I will see how i go ...but time isnt on my side.

 

When you first asked I and others here suggested that you make a 10 percent cut (.1 ml) and then hold for 4 weeks and see how you feel. Did you this? If so, how are you feeling? Did you have any withdrawal symptoms from that cut and if so what were they and what was the severity of the symptoms?

[Guest [Ba...]]

I am sorry i forgot all you said. Cant find where you wrote. I put things off soo long but kept on asking advice. And as scared still didnt start. No i dont as weve probaaly discussed get 10% cuts. You may i recall wrote it out but i cant find way round the site and my memory not good.

I know slow and steady is better but i cant afford to stay on .due to still hunger. I got more pain eating weakness arns legs irritable sleep all over place still sexual.urges drive me crazy. Dry nouth bad  probaly pain also gaba stuff. Cant think well writing bad . And i reduced stopped the z which nade things worse. Its all the pain eating. Cry a lot abd quite down waking. Did you tell me before sorry i dont recall.

[[Ja...]]

I am sorry i forgot all you said. Cant find where you wrote. I put things off soo long but kept on asking advice. And as scared still didnt start. No i dont as weve probaaly discussed get 10% cuts. You may i recall wrote it out but i cant find way round the site and my memory not good.

I know slow and steady is better but i cant afford to stay on .due to still hunger. I got more pain eating weakness arns legs irritable sleep all over place still sexual.urges drive me crazy. Dry nouth bad  probaly pain also gaba stuff. Cant think well writing bad . And i reduced stopped the z which nade things worse. Its all the pain eating. Cry a lot abd quite down waking. Did you tell me before sorry i dont recall.

 

You are assuming that a quick withdrawal will solve this problem and it may not. I also have a few questions based on your signature. Your signature implies that you discontinued Amtryptaline in March. Were you in fact taking Amtryptaline and Mirtazapine at the same time at any point? Also, you mention stomach troubles. Are you taking any PPI’s like Nexium(Esomeprazole) or Prilosec(Omeprazole)?

[[ja...]]

I am on day 11 of the 5.7 dose and while some things seem to be settling sleep is falling apart.  I’m not sure what to think because insomnia is the reason I was put on this drug to begin with.  In late December I started with broken sleep which turned into broken sleep and very early awakening, like 3 or 4 am, then it deteriorated to the point where I was going to sleep at 10 and waking up between 1130 and midnight and then no more sleep til 10 the next night.  At this point I went to pcp who prescribed mirtazapine.  Last night my sleep was awful again, fell asleep at 10 and up at midnight, no more sleep after midnight.  It’s so frustrating because I don’t know if this is withdrawal and I should continue on at this dose until sleep stabilizes or if this is return of the insomnia that got me put on mirtazapine.  I guess for now im just going to stay on my 5.7 dose and try to see if things improve.  Any ideas would be much appreciated.

[[Ja...]]

I am on day 11 of the 5.7 dose and while some things seem to be settling sleep is falling apart.  I’m not sure what to think because insomnia is the reason I was put on this drug to begin with.  In late December I started with broken sleep which turned into broken sleep and very early awakening, like 3 or 4 am, then it deteriorated to the point where I was going to sleep at 10 and waking up between 1130 and midnight and then no more sleep til 10 the next night.  At this point I went to pcp who prescribed mirtazapine.  Last night my sleep was awful again, fell asleep at 10 and up at midnight, no more sleep after midnight.  It’s so frustrating because I don’t know if this is withdrawal and I should continue on at this dose until sleep stabilizes or if this is return of the insomnia that got me put on mirtazapine.  I guess for now im just going to stay on my 5.7 dose and try to see if things improve.  Any ideas would be much appreciated.

 

You are probably going to have to deal with both. You will have a return of the original insomnia and it will we made worse by the withdrawal from Remeron. I had to start taking 5 mg of melatonin every night once I hit 5.1 mg of mirt. At some point I increased to 6 mg melatonin and that carried me through my taper down to .03 mg where I jumped. I am off mirt completely now for 5 weeks after a 2 year taper and am still sleeping through the night at 6 mg of melatonin each night. I had a few sleepness nights after I first jumped where even 10 mg of melatonin would not even give me a minute of sleep but that passed. It was never consecutive days just 1 day here or there and then I would be so tired the next night I would pass out and sleep all night the next night. The main symptom I am dealing with now is feeling like I have a never ending mild flu. I get a low grade fever whenever I get up and do anything and have fatigue and constant stomach trouble. If I had not been through this multiple times I would be convinced I have a stomach bug that won’t go away. I was put on mirtazapine to help with benzo withdrawal but was put on benzos to help with insomnia. So I always expected to at least have to go back to melatonin when all was said and done because I knew my old insomnia would come back.

[[ja...]]

Jack,

Insomnia had never been an issue for me until 7 years ago when I went through chemotherapy for NHL, midway through I could sleep hardly at all.  I was sleeping no more than 2 hours a night for weeks and oncologist sent me to a pdoc which is where the original merry go round started.  Pdoc put me on klonopin which helped for a short time, then added neurontin, then mirtazapine.  She also tried out ambien, ambien cr, lunesta and sonata and nothing ever really helped much.  Then it was a vicious cycle to get off everything.  That time I stopped mirtazapine without any issues very quickly.  After about six months off everything sleep resestablished itself and I was fine until December 2020 when I had diverticulitis, followed by cdiff from those antibiotics, followed by a uti with more antibiotics, and a horrible case of oral thrush from all the antibiotics.  Halfway through insomnia restarted again not being able to sleep more than 2 hours in the evening and no naps at all, still unable to sleep during the day no matter how tired or how little sleep.  I was only getting maybe 10 to 12 hours of sleep in a week and it was horrible, pretty much laid in recliner all day.  Pcp gave me mirtazapine 7.5 for sleep but I didn’t like how I felt, being tired all day long and achy all over so after 3 months pcp said to stop taking it and maybe sleep would reestablish.  I didn’t just stop it but went down by a quarter pill every two weeks and all was fine until 4 days off completely when sleep totally went back to 90 minutes a night, each and every night so I went back on the 7.5 dose.  I still didn’t like the side effects from being on it so wanted to try a slower taper this time.  I tried using melatonin before I went on the mirtazapine but it never really helped me.  I am a petite senior citizen and my husband purchased me 5mg melatonin and I took one and fell asleep but woke up a few hours later to use bathroom and was staggering around like I was drunk, falling into the walls.  Scared us both.  Tried a lower dose, a 2 mg extended release but didn’t do anything other than make me feel very tired but didn’t sleep.  My brother uses trazodone for sleep and gave me some of his 50mg and I slept well the first time but every night after the sleep got shorter and shorter until it was only helping me sleep for 3 hours with bad daytime fatigue and hangover from it.  That’s when I went to pcp who started the mirtazapine.  When I say I have insomnia it’s not sometimes, it is unrelenting every single night only sleeping no more than 2 hours.  I am just hoping that sleep will settle down.  I thought it would also be best to try to taper the mirtazapine because it seemed like after six weeks on it sleep was not as good, it was becoming shorter in duration with frequent awakenings, so maybe 5 hours of broken sleep. 

I want to thank you for getting back to me and look forward to your support and advice if I am able to continue this taper.

[[Ja...]]

Day 39 since jump.

So it’s been rough still. It’s tough to guage. There were times during my taper where I was completely bedridden for weeks. I am not bedridden so I want to say it’s not as bad as that. I had another food reaction last night to the same food that started this whole thing. The sauce of the chicken I had contains MSG. Thankfully I proceeded with caution and ate much less of it this time. Last time my heart was pounding all night, vibrating, insomnia, burning skin. This time I had just a little of the sauce and the same thing happened but at a much lower severity. I was still able to sleep most of the night. I took tylenol to take the edge off the fever. I have had the fever go away some days and then come back. It came back after eating this last night and I usually don’t have the fever at bed time. I think it might be a build up of glutamate in my body that is causing these symptoms. Keep in mind I had issues with MSG and things like that before all of this so it stands to reason I would become hypersensitive in withdrawal. I am going to try eating low glutamate and see if this helps at all. I have really just been eating whatever I feel like including fast food and garbage so I will see if cleaning this diet up calms some stuff down. I had another productive day yesterday. I am still too up and down to get back to work. I am running out of sick time though. I have other time and can always start using my FMLA but I was kind of proud of the fact that I haven’t had to pull that card in over a year. I feel drained this morning from the heart pounding which I am sure continued even as I slept but all in all not too bad. My blood pressure is kind of a roller coaster fluctuating between 120/80 to 140/95. I haven’t has any of those major upswings like the other week where it shot up to 160/110 or something like that. Bedtime panic attacks have become fewer and less severe sometimes going away within 30 seconds of starting. That was becoming almost every night and now it is becoming rare. I develop a 99.5 or less fever pretty much everyday by noon. It only goes down if I rest. I don’t really have any body pain like I did during tapering. When I was tapering I would get out of bed and I was so stiff the first few steps were excruciatingly painful. That has gone away. I have no more stiffness or anything like that. I have fibromyalgia(was diagnosed in 2009) and that is a little different. That just makes things that should not hurt hurt like hell. It feels like when you press on a bruise except my whole body feels like that all the time. I’ve gotten used to it and I think my pain threshold is higher as a result so it really does not impact my life in any significant way. Even being into extreme sports still if I fall it just hurts like a million times more and takes longer to heal but this has just been the norm for me for so long I don’t even think about it anymore.

Anyway, I’ll get on top of cleaning up this diet and I’ll report back with the results.

[[no...]]

Awesome update Jack - really solid details and awareness of your system. The BP thing was huge for me in my own post-jump experience. 160/110 was fairly common, ebbing and flowing over the course of the day as BP does anyhow. My naturopath fortunately was understanding in what was happening and refrained from medicating the BP, which has settled. Though I do find an elevation still in the winter months that I just deal with and it passes.

 

Keep up the great work - both in hanging in there, and documentation.

 

Dave

[Guest [Ba...]]

Hello jack and everyonwme. I am so sorry we all have to go through this.

 

Answer Jack....yes and yes  dont worry ive deleted my long post as noone wants to know as seems im too complicates and they dont have any simikar issues so no point posting anymore . I hope you get well. Seems you all chatty get support but not me. Bye

 

[Guest [Ba...]]

P.s. what i eat affects how my drugs work now at night. Never used to at all..

[[Ox...]]

I'm sorry for your suffering Basten. Don't really have any suggestion for you in this complex situation. Hope you will be ok. Jack, could histamine-intolerance be part of your problems? That would be very logical since Mirtazapine works as an antihistaminicum. Maybe taking a OTC anti-histaminicum will help you?

 

I am still hanging on taking the Mirtazapine. I will keep taking it untill I feel good enough to ween off. I am still not there though. I have many complications in my life right now that make this difficult.

 

Just another question. I think last tuesday I missed a dose. Couldn't sleep and so I took 7,5 mg. Might have taken too much, but might have missed half a dose. I didn't feel very well the next day and have been struggling a bit ever since. My question is, could this have been caused by the mixed dose? Does anyone have any insights?

[Guest [Ba...]]

Not posting here anymore. Seems im too complicated and a waste of time yet you all support each other. Seems im just a no go. Goodbye