Sometimes Faster is BETTER

[[to...]]

Quote

Yes some of us here are "Benzo toxic" for lack of a better phrase and proof of this is the rashes, hives and intolerable headaches.  These are not so much withdrawal symptoms.  Especially when present shortly after taking the drugs or developing an "allergy" like condition over time.  These are symptoms that are common side effects of many if not the majority of drugs.

 

This is what has happened in my case and why I chose to

move along with ending my taper and take what comes.

 

I posted in the past when I dose I don't feel the same.

It also seems the longer I dose the more rash I get that

itches is showing up all over my body. The headaches

also seemed to go hand in hand with the my continual

use of benzo not withdrawal.

 

My actual tolerance withdrawal sxs that I have had for the

last 3 months have gotten significantly better, tolerable,

during my fast taper.

 

But these other issues, that I knew were different, have

increased and I didn't know why. Now I attribute it to the

long term toxicity effect of the drug.

 

That is why I personally chose to stop my taper basically @ .50mg a day.

 

And at this point so far has been a good decision for me.

[[Vr...]]

If Marina feels some discomfort yet continues to lower the dose and winds up with less discomfort at a lower dose, how is that a bad thing?  That's what Ashton recommends and the method a multitude of recovered benzo users employed with success.

 

At some point staying on the benzo in a prolonged taper is just, in the end, another way to stay on the benzo.  It becomes a pseudo taper, the anti-taper, where actual discontinuation of the drug is no longer the goal.  Black is white and up is literally down in their reverse universe.  Just add a little mythology, romance, and a method (patent-pending of course) to complete the illusion.

 

Be happy for anyone who got off benzos without the fanfare.  I'm 65 days out and have no wd sxs - don't be hatin.

 

Vribbley

 

 

 

 

[[Di...]]

Oh geez - you're really annoying me now Vribble. Whoever said that it was a bad thing if "Marina feels some discomfort yet continues to lower the dose and winds up with less discomfort at a lower dose". If she chooses to do that, then that is exactly what it is. Her choice. Others make different choices.

 

And as for your "It becomes a pseudo taper, the anti-taper, where actual discontinuation of the drug is no longer the goal", well that's just plain insulting and totally out of line, and just proves my point that it's the people like you and zig zag who are the only ones being confrontational here. What we have here are you and your ilk just taking pot-shot at others without provocation.

 

No one here has a "romance" with benzos, or "worships are some holy shrine" (or whatever those ridiculous and offensive comments were). Everyone here hates benzos, and wants to get off them as fast as they can. How they choose to do it is totally up to them - and you.

 

Be adult enough to make your own choices without needing approval from other people, or caring about what they say. Or as Intend said so very well... "Do you really need the affirmations of so many others to act on your own?".

[[Zi...]]

Here's what I want to share: I did not slow down regardless of the symptoms. I had some terrible ones very frightening episodes, I did not slow down.... so what happened? The symptoms passed.

 

All the best to everyone.

 

m

 

The original posting only said that there are those who can benefit by a fast taper. I am one of them, along with the original poster.

 

The intent was to help those might be helped by such a message.

 

It didn't say everyone should adopt a fast taper plan, only that it works for some.

[[Vr...]]

Yes, Diaz, I am out of line, as in - not in the herd.

 

Why do you need to affirm yourself by scolding those who don't conform, who move on to greener pastures and actually quit using the drug?  Why not save your outrage for those who only pretend to taper, the interlopers?  Why not scold them, or yourself?

 

Ibblesworth

 

 

[[Lu...]]

That is why I personally chose to stop my taper basically @ .50mg a day.

 

Thanks Tommy.  Let us know what happens with your experiment.  I read my notes today from 2004 and was suffering from headaches, rash, hives and allergies back then.  I was functional up to late 2008 and by 2009 baked.

 

I will experiment further in two days with a further drop of up to .5 if these last two cuts are tolerable.  Must put fear aside and take a gamble.  Possibly near the end there are two outcomes.  This is a general view.

 

One - the rate of taper must remain as before in percentage and time as if on 10mgs.  The body is so sensitive, the withdrawal comes on hard as it did when first attempting "rapid" withdrawal and subsequent attempts leading to disastrous painful withdrawal over days before settling if at all.

 

Two - The remaining amount of drug under 2mg daily to the body is less significant.  The effect on GABA or ability to "Calm" is reduced thereby allowing for a much more rapid pace and a jump at up to 1mg as would be the case with a rapid withdrawal program of 1mg each week starting from say 15mg.  This is considered a moderate rate by Addiction Clinics.  There is a percentage of people that recover very quickly. I don't have this stat.  Maybe someone here has found it.  Think I read somewhere up to 40%?

 

So, I will once again test myself as I have throughout and report back.  I will gladly be the Guinea Pig.  Let's see how brave I sound 3-4 days after the next drop in 2 days.  From my experience thus far, I get hit with each cut on day 4 and recover by day 10 ready to cut again by day 12-14.  The lower I have come down, the faster I am able to cut.  Trial and error.  As I have mentioned before, Should I cut or should I hold for the song: Should I stay or should I go?

Clash.

http://wn.com/should_i_stay_or_should_i_go#/videos

 

Let’s experiment and play some chicken......

As Cramer says: “The House of Pain”.

 

So you see, the whole discussion comes down to the question: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

watch video and tell me which.....This is the same as the discussion here.

 

http://wn.com/chicken_videos#/videos

[[Zi...]]

I am out of line, as in - not in the herd.

 

I am not in the herd either.

 

That is, I belong to the silent majority who do not feel the need for a slow taper. It is my choice to taper as fast as I can, and work through the process as rapidly as possible. I believe those who take this approach are not vocal, so a newbie to the forum gets the message that a slow taper is the only possible way to go.

 

I have no problem with anyone who chooses a slow taper. That is their business, just as a faster taper is my business.

 

I was on a very fast taper until I joined BB and was frightened into slowing down. I doubt that I am alone in that way.

 

I don't think there is any question that some posters feel the need to defend their decision to opt for a slow taper. Just reading this thread in its entirety demonstrates that.

[[el...]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ilLUI0cRf0

[[In...]]

Zigzag,

 

You say that you were on a fast taper before joining BB, but after joining, you were frightened into a slow one.

 

Your signature says that you are thinking about going back to a fast one again.

 

Well did you? And if not, why not? You can always slow it down again if you dont "like" the fast taper.

 

I don't understand why anyone would vehemently defend the merits of a fast taper without being  on one.

 

But then again, maybe you are, and it's working well for you. I just don't know if you are or you aren't.

 

Which is it if you wouldn't mind clarifying?

 

Intend

[[No...]]

Faster is absolutely better!

[[Zi...]]

Zigzag,

 

You say that you were on a fast taper before joining BB, but after joining, you were frightened into a slow one.

 

Your signature says that you are thinking about going back to a fast one again.

 

Well did you? And if not, why not? You can always slow it down again if you dont "like" the fast taper.

 

I don't understand why anyone would vehemently defend the merits of a fast taper without being n one.

 

But then again, maybe you are, and it's working well for you. I just don't know if you are or you aren't.

 

Which is it if you wouldn't mind clarifying?

 

Intend

 

I cut from 10MG to 5.0MG to 2.5MG in the month of January. I consider that a fast taper, just this side of a cold turkey.

 

Then I slowed down for  Feb and Mar.  I am currently using the gel caps I had already made up and on hand.

 

Keep your eye on my signature. I'm not about to tip my hand in advance so those who wish me ill can put the hex on me. I'm just superstitous that way.

[[ba...]]

Hi all,

 

Just my two cents...

 

Why is this even a thing? Fast or slow taper, who the freak cares! I know when I'm ready to taper, but I will not let others dictate my taper schedule. Even my GP leaves me alone. Quit arguing about schedules! This thread, in my opinion, is out of control. It's what works for you!!!

[[Di...]]

Yes, Diaz, I am out of line, as in - not in the herd.

 

Why do you need to affirm yourself by scolding those who don't conform, who move on to greener pastures and actually quit using the drug?  Why not save your outrage for those who only pretend to taper, the interlopers?  Why not scold them, or yourself?

 

Ibblesworth

 

 

 

You really haven't read any of my posts have you? The only reason I am "scolding" you is because of your antogonist attitude. All you and Zig Zag have done is put down and been sarcastic to those who don't "conform" to your way of thinking.  You can't deny that when there have been comments made like people "worshiping are some holy shrine".

 

If there are "interlopers" who are only "pretending" to taper, I'd love you to point them out to me. And what's with the "Why not scold them, or yourself?" comment. Is that your way of implying that I'm one of the "interlopers" who is only "pretending" to taper?

 

You can do whatever you want with your taper. Just don't put other people down who don't do what you do.

 

 

[[Lu...]]

Why do you need to affirm yourself by scolding those who don't conform, who move on to greener pastures and actually quit using the drug?  Why not save your outrage for those who only pretend to taper, the interlopers?  Why not scold them, or yourself?

Ouch!

 

I said I will experiment.  OK, let's put this to the test.  I challenge ZigZag.  When is your next drop?  Let's settle this for everyone. In fact this goes out to any brave souls out there.  A double dare... Not to prove any point. This is the whole purpose of the board.  To comfort when hurting, to push when idle. To save when drowing. To lift when low.

 

So come on people let's JUMP to it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM

 

We are just going around in circles and going nowhere fast!  What happened to the chicken or the egg?

It's like the dog chasing it's tail.  If at first you don't succeed, try try again.  Do we ever get tired?

 

[[el...]]

[[Di...]]

 

I don't think there is any question that some posters feel the need to defend their decision to opt for a slow taper. Just reading this thread in its entirety demonstrates that.

 

We must be reading different threads.

[[Di...]]

Here's what I want to share: I did not slow down regardless of the symptoms. I had some terrible ones very frightening episodes, I did not slow down.... so what happened? The symptoms passed.

 

All the best to everyone.

 

m

 

The original posting only said that there are those who can benefit by a fast taper. I am one of them, along with the original poster.

 

The intent was to help those might be helped by such a message.

 

It didn't say everyone should adopt a fast taper plan, only that it works for some.

 

No one has denied that or disagreed. It's all the pot-shots that you've taken along the way that have been the problem.

 

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I frankly have no interest in how anyone decides to taper. My taper is my taper and I will do it the way I want to do it. I will also continue to help others who ask for help. 

 

However, I REFUSE to judge people for how they decide to taper, so being part of this thread is just making me angry because I can see so much judgement and negativity going on.

[[Zi...]]

My guess is Marina had some sort of paradoxical effect from or toxicity to Valium and just needed to hurry and get off.

 

What evidence do you have to suggest this is the case?  There's nothing paradoxical about her symptoms decreasing with less drug.  It's no mystery that her condition improved when she continued to lower the dose in spite of sxs  Why is she in the minority?

 

Only in some reverse universe does less drug mean more wd sxs and tapering means never actually discontinuing the drug.  Some tapers look more like a love affair with the drug - never having to say, "goodbye".

 

The taper is simply a means to an end, the discontinuation of the drug - not the start of a tortured romance.

 

Vribble 

[[Lu...]]

Why is this even a thing? Fast or slow taper, who the freak cares! I know when I'm ready to taper, but I will not let others dictate my taper schedule. Even my GP leaves me alone. Quit arguing about schedules! This thread, in my opinion, is out of control. It's what works for you!!!

 

I like heated debate.  Get's the blood flowing and fire beneath the behind. No complacency.

 

It helps by reassessing your decisions and will help people move on.  It is simply a different approach.  The BB needs a bit of excitement. I agree, some arrive here and get frightened. We must look at all sides. 

 

Fear leads nowhere......

 

See you all tomorrow.  Need to know who is up to the challenge. What came first chicken or egg, who is chasing tail and last: Who's on first?

1:10min

 

Good night all

[[Zi...]]

My guess is Marina had some sort of paradoxical effect from or toxicity to Valium and just needed to hurry and get off.

 

What evidence do you have to suggest this is the case?  There's nothing paradoxical about her symptoms decreasing with less drug.  It's no mystery that her condition improved when she continued to lower the dose in spite of sxs  Why is she in the minority?

 

Only in some reverse universe does less drug mean more wd sxs and tapering means never actually discontinuing the drug.  Some tapers look more like a love affair with the drug - never having to say, "goodbye".

 

The taper is simply a means to an end, the discontinuation of the drug - not the start of a tortured romance.

 

Vribble 

[[ja...]]

You sound like a bunch of 2 year olds arguing about stupid shit. Don't you have something better to post and help others who are in need?

[[...]]

Hi babyrex,

 

I agree, it’s shame really, because this is an important topic...

 

I have found that no matter where I go in the world if you put 10 people in a room at a minimum you will find 2 sometimes more that find the other 7 or 8 absolutely intolerable. It dose not matter what the topic is, it doesn’t matter if the sky is blue or if it’s raining outside they will disagree with somebody. Alternate POV is pretty much like another language they have not learned.

 

I kinda’ look at like this...ya’ don’t want to”roll” with pigs, you just get dirty and the pigs like it

 

The two conformational individuals (and I have to agree with Diaz-Pam they are confrontational) on this thread have taken a great and helpful post and turned it into a dueling match. Let’s hope civility will “rain” supreme and this thread last a long time because it is an important topic. This does not mean one can not voice their opinion. Or for that matter get pounded for their opinion...just think about being polite.

It’s amazing how much smoooooother a conversation goes.

 

If civility doesn’t work, just don’t reply...

 

 

Cheers,

Adie

[[Ch...]]

OK.. I am tired so I hope this makes sense and my spelling and grammer is not to bad and I look forward to some actual replies to the question tomorrow when I have had some sleep.

 

Where does tolerance fit into this equation?  I was in such tolerance withdrawals for probably a year before I figured something was wrong and wanted off. 

 

IMHO.. I think because of this a slow taper would just have made things worse.  My situation dictated a rapid taper due to lack of meds and I believe that was the hand of the Goddess on my shoulder. (yet again)

 

I have been wanted to ask this for a while and I hope I get some thoughtful and meaningful feedback.

 

China

 

[[et...]]

When I hear someone has been able to dump this crap my heart does a flip. I don't focus on how I just focus on the success. I've had it both ways and right now I go this way. Who knows maybe later go faster? Who cares how? I have to go to work every day (well almost every day). I do feel if I could stay at home I may have been able to keep up the pace. But normal life just wore me down. I slowed down and only had to take a few days off, so, right now this is my plan to stay slow. I am so happy for those who have succeeded, so sad for those who have not and fist pumping for all those who are trying no matter how.

etown

[[ba...]]

Adie,

 

I agree! Lest we lose ourselves, I believe this to be a support network.  It doesn't matter how we get off the poison. I worry about the newbies who are not yet in a taper. They read this shit and try to make sense of it. Guess what, newcomers? You will ultimately need to decide for yourself. When you begin your taper, your body will begin to show many of the symptoms described in Ashton as well as many other publications. Do your homework! Take this "advise" and go at a pace that is comfortable for you. I try to make "goals". If I can leave the house, drive and work my schedule, I know I am ready to cut. But you will have your own parameters. I think it's important to push through some of the sxs. Keep going kids!

 

Hugs to all!