Sometimes Faster is BETTER

[[Ma...]]

i wasn't planning on contributing any further but Braban you're speaking to me directly again and I'll tell you, I thought I was going to die, seriously, you're not reading, you assume that if i could do something.... no... I felt like I couldn't I thought it was going to kill me I was determined to die it was so bad going slowly, it was getting worse and worse. The symptoms cutting were mind blowing, even when I first started cutting fast. I was crazy and terrified and in soooo much pain I was. I was very badly off and I did it anyway, even though I couldn't. You too WWWI, cut it out. You don't get it at all and you just have to accept that. It was hard, it was awful, it was impossible but I kept going cause I didn't care whether I lived or died, it was the most horrible thing I could not have possibly imagined going through and it got better anyway. I didn't stop when I got slammed and I got slammed, I kept going and it stopped, not altogether not by a long shot.

 

Damn it it's enough. I know you're going to ignore me and the bulls*** will continue and my point will simply never see daylight because you just refuse to accept that this can be but it can and was.

 

IT WAS INTOLERABLE BUT I DID IT ANYWAY. THERE. I'm made of fuc**** nails.

 

Now as god is my witness I'm never coming back. I really can't stand this anymore.

Jeezzzzuzzzz.

m

[[un...]]

Day 5 since my cut of 1.25 mg's and I feel so good it's scary.

 

I think, if I do eventually pay for this, it will be easier having had these great days. Practically asymptomatic. Incredible. I give this thread credit for the vast improvement just as I will blame it if/when I crash. Hey, ya gotta find something to blame other than yourself!

 

I have been eating a bland diet. Shredded Wheat, turkey sandwiches and milk is about all I feel safe with. Sugar is almost as bad as alcohol for me. Also, I think spicy foods rev up my symptoms but I haven't got a good read on that part yet.

 

So, this evening my wife asks me again if we can try the new NY Pizza joint down the street. Haven't taken her out for a bite in months. I told her I'd better stick with turkey sands. She said fine, but I knew she wanted to get out. So out we went.

 

So now, if I have symptoms tomorrow I won't know if it's a slam from the cut or the pizza causing it. Damn! My experiment is corrupted! Well, life is what happens while we're busy making plans . . .

 

By the way, the pizza was fine, but it feels like my pleasure center is numbed-out or somethin'. My taste buds didn't seem to care that they were getting something yummy for a change. They were like, yeah, it's great but we're not going to send you any satisfaction. It's a lot like the rest of my life these days--hard to feel any intense pleasure in anything.  --utc 

 

 

 

 

[[un...]]

Marina.

 

Your latest post just came in as I was writing mine.

 

I just went back and re-read your initial post that began this thread. I don't see anything in there that makes your ride sound at all like an easy one. I don't know where people got that idea, if indeed some did, but it seems like this is driving you nuts!

 

So, I just want to come right out and tell you that I understand what you're saying and have been saying. It's not astrophysics to me. If others cannot figure it out, screw 'em! Don't let this ruin your progress 'fer chrissakes! You're doin' fine!  -utc

 

 

[[un...]]

Three hours after pizza and my ears are beginning to ring.  GOOD GRIEF . . .

[[...]]

Hi Marina,

 

I for one hope you do come back from time to time and give us an up-date. Drop me PM if you don’t want to come back to the forum. I think this topic you started is very important and I would personally like to thanks you for it and I would like to know how you are doing and how the rest of your recovery is going...

 

Cheers,

Adie

[[Vr...]]

Marina,

 

I don't understand the need for some to minimize your experience.  They'll say you were one of the lucky ones, that you didn't go through what they went through, are going through, that you were asymptomatic or in tolerance wd and had no choice in the matter anyway.  Anything to minimize and invalidate. 

 

If I say I'm no longer experiencing wd sxs just 2-3 weeks out, I get the same treatment.  They'll argue I never went through wd or experienced wd sxs in the first place.  Nevermind, that minutes turned to hours when I tried to get off ativan or when I ran out of librium before I knew how to taper.  I wanted to die and ended up being hospitalized.

 

I don't know why they can't accept that we had sxs and tapered through them.  That the answer to less sxs was simply less of the drug.  I dropped from 20Mg's to 15Mg's of librium in just 2 weeks and Jana told me to reinstate at 20Mg's and do it right.  I kid you not, she recommended, insisted really, that I updose and do an exceedingly long taper under her supervision.  Instead I dealt with a little discomfort and continued to taper.

 

That doesn't stop them from cursing me with eventual PAWS.  They'll say I didn't do it right and will suffer for it eventually.  When I reinstated after a long taper last year, 3 months out for reasons that had NOTHING to do with wd sxs, they were all over me to rub my face in it.  Now I'm benzo free again, still on probation in their eyes, under their curse, but happily symptom free at well over 2 months.  I no longer view librium as a medication and won't make the reinstatement mistake again.  It's no longer an option for me - but hey, they don't buy that either.  Nope, I'm cursed in their book.

 

All we are saying is that tapers can go at the speed of Ashton, or even faster, and still be successful - even for those with symptoms.

 

Vribble 

[[ja...]]

Good post Vribble, Happy Easter!

 

Love Jackie

[[Ki...]]

   

[[Wi...]]

Vribble

 

I know who I am, what I have survived in life and the level of determination and strength I possess.  I believe my and Marina's experiences are different.  If she were in my shoes, I also believe her perspective would be vastly different then what it appears at this time.  That's all I'm saying.

 

WWWI

[[os...]]

This is not a pissing contest, nothing worse than those that get off that brag about it, great, you got off, no need to make others feel bad for not being able to do the same.

 

That isn´t very nice at all, if you are off, be happy about it, not full of nasty crap.

 

Grow the hell up.

 

Oscar

[[Di...]]

Okay, let’s all just take a deep breath and repeat after me ……

 

“Everyone should taper the way they feel is best for them. There is no fast or slow. There is no right or wrong. It’s just called tapering. Kumbaya".

 

Seriously everyone…. This thread is now starting to sound like a ridiculous competition of who’s done the most suffering. Perhaps some people will think that I haven't suffered enough, because I've chosen to do a slowER (not slow) daily taper, and that I'm taking the easy way out. Well, you can judge me if you want to, but you haven't walked in my shoes have you? You don't know what I've already been through, even before I started taking valium. I’ve done my time with suffering and having suicidal tendencies, thanks very much. Not doing it anymore.

 

I've chosen this method because it means I'm not suffering at all now (that must be bad!!), and I can get on with my life which is more important to me now than putting my life on hold and going at it fast and furious to get it over with.  My choice, my reasons, my prerogative.

 

If someone else chooses to go at it fast or faster, even if it means more suffering, so be it. Their choice, their reasons, their prerogative, but you don’t get any special medals or prizes for making that choice. You just get the same “Good on ya”, that everyone else gets when your taper is done.

 

Can’t we all just agree to disagree, if that’s what we need to do? For a little while there I thought this thread was actually starting to take a turn with some interesting discussions going on, but no... we're right back into the "my dad's bigger than your dad" school yard battle. I'm disappointed.

 

[[Ki...]]

Okay, let’s all just take a deep breath and repeat after me ……

 

“Everyone should taper the way they feel is best for them. There is no fast or slow. There is no right or wrong. It’s just called tapering. Kumbaya".

 

Seriously everyone…. This thread is now starting to sound like a ridiculous competition of who’s done the most suffering. Perhaps some people will think that I haven't suffered enough, because I've chosen to do a slowER (not slow) daily taper, and that I'm taking the easy way out. Well, you can judge me if you want to, but you haven't walked in my shoes have you? You don't know what I've already been through, even before I started taking valium. I’ve done my time with suffering and having suicidal tendencies, thanks very much. Not doing it anymore.

 

I've chosen this method because it means I'm not suffering at all now (that must be bad!!), and I can get on with my life which is more important to me now than putting my life on hold and going at it fast and furious to get it over with.  My choice, my reasons, my prerogative.

 

If someone else chooses to go at it fast or faster, even if it means more suffering, so be it. Their choice, their reasons, their prerogative, but you don’t get any special medals or prizes for making that choice. You just get the same “Good on ya”, that everyone else gets when your taper is done.

 

Can’t we all just agree to disagree, if that’s what we need to do?

 

  AGREE! 

 

And a big "Kumbaya" to ALL who have gone through, or are still going through, this rotten benzo journey! At WHATEVER pace!

 

 

 

 

[[Di...]]

Thanks Kimba. Ooops - I added a bit to my last paragraph after you quoted it....   I am seriously disappointed with the way things have gone today. Who cares what other people think about how you tapered or how much suffering you've done.

[[Ki...]]

Hi Diaz-Pam! Ooops! I quoted you and didn't see you added to it!

 

I don't understand the "Battle of the Taper-ers", either.    Everyone should taper at whatever pace they feel they need to taper at. There's no need for combat here. We're all going through our own individual and painful journeys.

 

Here's a song for everyone!

 

 

Kimba 

[[os...]]

Vribble wrote on his progress log;

 

Just over 2 months off, no sxs.

 

Don´t go hatin´

 

____________________

 

Well good for you Vribble, brag all you want, you act like a 12 year old and you are a grandfather in your 60´s?

 

I am disappointed also... yes, because to come out of this with that silly cocky attitude is really low.

 

This place really annoys me because the vast majority that get free actually do NOT become better more compassionate people, they often just leave... it would actually be nice if you posted something constructive but NO, i guess that just ain´t ever gonna happen.

 

Healed benzo people are often the most selfish, that will always baffle me.

 

Oscar

[[Di...]]

Ahhhh - love that song!!!! Here's the full version.  I'm not sure which one came first - The New Seekers or the Coke ad. Turn the volume way up everyone and sing with me.......

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj__Z9r0OVk

 

This is my kind of music. I'm a 70s kid.  I'm going to be singing it for hours now...lol....

 

 

[[Ki...]]

Ahhhh - love that song!!!! Here's the full version.  I'm not sure which one came first - The New Seekers or the Coke ad. Turn the volume way up everyone and sing with me.......

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj__Z9r0OVk

 

This is my kind of music. I'm a 70s kid.  I'm going to be singing it for hours now...lol....

 

I've never seen this! I absolutely LOVE this clip!  Thank you so much!  :smitten: :smitten:

[[Zi...]]

This is not a pissing contest, nothing worse than those that get off that brag about it, great, you got off, no need to make others feel bad for not being able to do the same.

 

That isn't very nice at all, if you are off, be happy about it, not full of nasty crap.

 

Grow the hell up.

 

Oscar

 

The people who relate positive stories of success are not the ones "full of nasty crap." To the contrary, it is the jealous ones who are still in withdrawal that hate to see success stories, and who hijack threads that present a positive message. I have not yet succeeded, but I am happy for those who do and want to hear their stories. Those stories are probably typical, and not an anomaly due to special circumstances or adverse reactions.

 

I've read a lot of postings on a lot of threads. What I've seen is some who are bitter when someone else is cured. People who are cured are often warned of, or threatened with, delayed protraced withdrawal. People who C/T or rapid taper are vilified.

 

I've seen extreme negative reactions to those who go fast and succeed. Seems to threaten some people.

[[ve...]]

There are many ways to skin a cat (sorry all you cat lovers ).  Marina brought up her experience where at some junctures, she felt better pushing through her pain and wanting to be done with her taper sooner.  Others may choose for other reasons, whether physical or psychological or something else, to not push at a faster pace. Some may choose to go at what some might consider a snail's pace.  Others may have other responses. 

 

There are so many possible reasons why what may work for one person may not be best for another.  One's own personal health situation, age, time on a particular benzo, history with other legal or illegal medications or alcohol use or abuse, benzo dose, other psychological or unresolved emotional issues, attentional issues, motivational issues, family history, financial situation, level of functioning, amount of sleep one gets if consistent, level of family or emotional support and so much more that can factor into a decision about speed of tapering.  Seems silly to try to convince anyone that they should take one approach to their taper.

 

I personally don't believe in c/t or rapid tapers (however defined) for reasons I stated earlier in the thread, regarding potential dangers to hearing and the inner ear, which I was told by an otoneurologist (who advised taking at least two months to taper off as "low a dose" as 2mg valium).  Yet, there are probably some medical situations where one may have reason to go faster.  Seems like it's an individual choice to make.  Some get all wigged out about reinstatement too.  Again, seems like it may work for some, not for others, particularly some who may have a history of multiple kindling on and off.  Yet even there, one must weigh in their own level of functioning, whether they might be a danger to themselves or others and other factors.  There are exceptions to any solid method that may work for many.  I reinstated after a c/t some years ago.  It was the right decision for me.  Might not be for others.  We're all aiming for the same finish line here.  All can not go at the exact same pace or finish at the same time. 

 

Vertigo

[[Vr...]]

Well good for you Vribble, brag all you want, you act like a 12 year old and you are a grandfather in your 60´s?

Oscar

 

I've never included my age or grandparent status in my profile.  If I've ever mentioned it in a post I regret it.  Why do you bring this up now?  What will you reveal about me next?

 

I don't need this.  Bye all.

 

Vribble

[[je...]]

                      Wow... this makes me very grateful that I only come on BB to update my blog and stay out of drama.  This is suppose to be a support forum.  Anyway, I applaude you Marina.  When I quit klonopin.... I went to a place I could never have even imagined existed.  I had every symptom under the sun.... but I needed off those pills then... not later.  I agree 100% with what you are saying.  "RT or CT is just someone being lucky because they never could have done it if they were having my sxs... blah blah blah".  I was in a miserable hell for months but I was happy to be off klonopin. 

                  When I was well enough in January to start getting rid of the last bit of xanax I was on I cut from .75 to .5 to .25 (where I am at now).  That is what worked for me.  Sure there were days that sucked but, nothing compared to living and breathing "tapering" for months (I tried that also... not for me).  So more power to ya girl.. and good luck in living your life away from here....

            I think we should all be supportive of eachother and if you really disagree and think someone is going way too slow, or is a drama queen or whatever... just stay away from them.  Same thing with people going quick and your going slowly... who cares.  FOR ME FASTER WAS BETTER.  If you have time and patience to go slow and it helps you then go slow.  That does not affect me at all.  Just my 2 cents... I will let everyone get back to arguing now...

                                                                          Jess

[[Ma...]]

Wow Jess, that's so wonderful, you really do sound great, you do, I'm so happy for you!!

 

Funny, I said I was never coming back but I had a personal message and I'll admit I was curious and I want to thank you all cause I learned something: If you look at all my posts, I never ever attacked anyone else, or belittled, well, there is the one item about someone taking a year to get off 1mg of Valium but I don't think that was belittling, I just felt the poor thing wasn't being offered an alternative. There are some pretty smart cookies who took a big bite out of me who really are I know able to know better, so it only shows me how slanted our perspectives can all get when we need or want to see something. I will get attacked for this, that's ok, I don't care, that's the only explanation I can come up with, and even if it's wrong it has put me on the alert for the times I hope I can catch myself in the future doing just that, so that's a bonus. My intention was only to show that wow oh wow, there can be another way, but I see that that is futile, which is also really interesting don't you think? I never said anyone had to totally embrace my thoughts or path or anything like that, I just tried with increasing difficulty to get a point across and couldn't because apparently it just "isn't possible". Interesting. I was insulted and took it personally where there really was no need.

 

Ok then. I'm not gloating. I'm not hating and sadly I'm likely as "grown up" as I'm ever going to be.

I'm just going to get on with my life now.

m

[[pi...]]

Vribble wrote on his progress log;

 

Just over 2 months off, no sxs.

 

Don´t go hatin´

 

____________________

 

Well good for you Vribble, brag all you want, you act like a 12 year old and you are a grandfather in your 60´s?

 

I am disappointed also... yes, because to come out of this with that silly cocky attitude is really low.

 

This place really annoys me because the vast majority that get free actually do NOT become better more compassionate people, they often just leave... it would actually be nice if you posted something constructive but NO, i guess that just ain´t ever gonna happen.

 

Healed benzo people are often the most selfish, that will always baffle me.

 

Oscar

 

Oscar,

 

I'm am so sorry to see you back posting in this manner. As you know very well, we have had several threads in the past with different titles and but the same theme, fast vs slow tapers.  I believe many people have have tried to keep this thread amicable by stating that everyone needs to find a method that works best for them.

 

There is nothing wrong with someone saying they are not suffering after a short taper, long taper or jumping off. They are simply stating their condition. Why should we resent that. No one should.

 

Your last statement is terribly wrong. There are many people, including those on the team that stay on BB long after they are healed to help, support and encourage. They are caring and giving individuals who want to be here even if they have other things that they could be doing.

 

Your personal attacks on members are not fair, please refrain from this. As you know, it is against our forum guidelines.

 

•Be polite towards, and respectful of, your fellow Buddies. We do not tolerate attacks upon fellow members. Any account created for the purposes of causing arguments and/or ill-feeling, will be banned.

 

pianogirl

[[ja...]]

Vribble wrote on his progress log;

 

Just over 2 months off, no sxs.

 

Don´t go hatin´

 

____________________

 

Well good for you Vribble, brag all you want, you act like a 12 year old and you are a grandfather in your 60´s?

 

I am disappointed also... yes, because to come out of this with that silly cocky attitude is really low.

 

This place really annoys me because the vast majority that get free actually do NOT become better more compassionate people, they often just leave... it would actually be nice if you posted something constructive but NO, i guess that just ain´t ever gonna happen.

 

Healed benzo people are often the most selfish, that will always baffle me.

 

Oscar

 

Oscar,

 

I'm am so sorry to see you back posting in this manner. As you know very well, we have had several threads in the past with different titles and but the same theme, fast vs slow tapers.  I believe many people have have tried to keep this thread amicable by stating that everyone needs to find a method that works best for them.

 

There is nothing wrong with someone saying they are not suffering after a short taper, long taper or jumping off. They are simply stating their condition. Why should we resent that. No one should.

 

Your last statement is terribly wrong. There are many people, including those on the team that stay on BB long after they are healed to help, support and encourage. They are caring and giving individuals who want to be here even if they have other things that they could be doing.

 

Your personal attacks on members are not fair, please refrain from this. As you know, it is against our forum guidelines.

 

•Be polite towards, and respectful of, your fellow Buddies. We do not tolerate attacks upon fellow members. Any account created for the purposes of causing arguments and/or ill-feeling, will be banned.

 

pianogirl

Thank You Pianogirl for saying that. For me I promise I have always tried to help with anyone suffering in such a scary and painful road.I rarely will ever speak about how good I feel knowing how many people are feeling so so badly. Unless I am asked for encourgment .

 

~Jenny

[[pi...]]

This topic has come up in the past and I would like to say that there were very amicable and reasonable discussions on the previous threads, sadly, I cannot.

 

This tends to be a "Hot Topic". I think the most important thing to remember is that we can only give our personal experience and can not dictate or determine what is best for anyone else.

 

As team members, we give general guidelines as a place to start. After all, many people come here totally lost and unable to even formulate a plan to taper off of benzos. We present a plan, or plans. From that point it is up to the individual to do what is best for their situation.

 

It takes strength and determination to complete the withdrawal process for many of us.  Lets give everyone the respect they deserve and support whatever plan they choose.

 

After all, its not you against them.  Its ALL of us against benzos.

 

pianogirl