WHAT TO EXPECT

[Guest [ja...]]

each and everyday is a different symptom but they go away and turn into different ones...

i need to stay strong. i need my higher power to help me through this ride...without him today i would have potentially slipped and fell back in the cuffs and shackles of benzos 

but i need to  always no matter how bad i feel

[Guest [ja...]]

i hate whoever invented those pills. i am so depressed...day 8... :'(

[[Fr...]]

Hang in there Jane, it will pass.

 

Frannie

[[dm...]]

Yes hang in there, I'm on day 10 now and while I don't feel much better it's not getting any worse. Still, I'm a complete zombie and if it goes on like this much longer I may have to reinstate.

[[Ch...]]

U really think so Challis? I really hope so. Today was rough...I hope it gets better not worse!

 

No but do u really think so?

I do.  All the research shows that we heal eventually.  Just some take longer than others.  And some have a worse ride than others.  I was on this stuff for 31 years and am okay now.  You will be, too.  Stick to your plan... and be as strong as you can. Easy to say, I know. I've been there.

Challis

[Guest [ja...]]

day 8... heart racing for last 24 hours, tolorable but i dont have insurance...

may have to go to ER to get blood pressure medicine?

anyone know of any good ones? other than that, I feel ok.

[Guest [ja...]]

day 10 good job dmalice! I feel better than yesterday

[Guest [ja...]]

8 X 24 is 192 hrs. Stuff should be out of my system pretty soon here.

[Guest [ja...]]

if not already?

[[ch...]]

From the Ashton Manual...

 

 

"Speed of elimination. Benzodiazepines also differ markedly in the speed at which they are metabolised (in the liver) and eliminated from the body (in the urine) (Table 1). For example, the "half-life" (time taken for the blood concentration to fall to half its initial value after a single dose) for triazolam (Halcion) is only 2-5 hours, while the half-life of diazepam is 20-100 hours, and that of an active metabolite of diazepam (desmethyldiazepam) is 36-200 hours. This means that half the active products of diazepam are still in the bloodstream up to 200 hours after a single dose. Clearly, with repeated daily dosing accumulation occurs and high concentrations can build up in the body (mainly in fatty tissues). As Table 1 shows, there is a considerable variation between individuals in the rate at which they metabolise benzodiazepines."

 

I am no doctor, but if I understand the above quote correctly...she is saying that it can take a little longer if one has taken benzos regularly over days, weeks, etc. I think the reason why there is a 30 day window to reinstate is because the gaba receptors haven't begun to up-regulated yet. 200 hours for the half life...so it's more like 400 hrs before it's close to being totally out of the fatty tissues of the body. Again, I am not a doctor....I am just going by what Ashton says here.

 

Chrisw

 

 

Chrisw

[Guest [ja...]]

thanks Chris for the info :)

[[we...]]

jane doe,

 

Is your phenobarbital running out today?  Valium has a half-life of 200 hours, so that means that after 200 hours half of the Valium that  was in your system has left. That means you still have half of the Valium in your system. It will probably take another week and a half for all of the Valium to clear, or most of the active metabolites. 

 

When I went off, my heart rate went up to 160 beats per minute for a few months. Since I don't have a heart condition, I wasn't particularly concerned.  The medications that are used to reduce the heart rate are called beta blockers. They block the effect of adrenaline.  They can be helpful, but you will also build tolerance, and they also have to be tapered. 

 

If you go to the ER, you may want to ask the doctor about phenobarbital, and whether it would be wise to continue it for another 2 weeks. IMO

[Guest [ja...]]

i would do the 10 just to be safe lol, actually i am doing 14. As u can see from my posts, thats all im worried about, everything else is "manageable" for now.

 

Oh, I'll definitely make it to 10. Let's just hope I don't end up in ER! I never stop believing in the ability of the body to heal itself.

 

The body WILL heal itself!

[[ch...]]

thanks Chris for the info :)

 

[Guest [ja...]]

jane doe,

 

Is your phenobarbital running out today?  Valium has a half-life of 200 hours, so that means that after 200 hours half of the Valium that  was in your system has left. That means you still have half of the Valium in your system. It will probably take another week and a half for all of the Valium to clear, or most of the active metabolites. 

 

When I went off, my heart rate went up to 160 beats per minute for a few months. Since I don't have a heart condition, I wasn't particularly concerned.  The medications that are used to reduce the heart rate are called beta blockers. They block the effect of adrenaline.  They can be helpful, but you will also build tolerance, and they also have to be tapered. 

 

If you go to the ER, you may want to ask the doctor about phenobarbital, and whether it would be wise to continue it for another 2 weeks. IMO

 

Thanks! Im actually trying to ween off the pheno (10-15 mg every three days) but it kinda is like my clutch for now....it is very weak but does kinda help subside the terrible feelings, at least for the next few days. The valium should be completley out of me by tomorrow. im at 192 hrs off (8 days) so its either gone or leaving by tomorrow...

 

i think my heart doesnt beat that fast, its just a lot more prominent....and palpitations.

 

I find myself acting the same exact way i was before i took the medicine! lol just really high anxiety...agoraphobic and agitated! ughhh! and last night i was crying for NO reason...

[Guest [ja...]]

im smiling more today! i think the other half of the half life was leaving cause i feel like i did days 2 and 3. But way better today, the day is still young though! 

[[ch...]]

day 8... heart racing for last 24 hours, tolorable but i dont have insurance...

may have to go to ER to get blood pressure medicine?

anyone know of any good ones? other than that, I feel ok.

 

Here in my state we have a Department of Health and Social Services. When I didn't have insurance back in 2004 I went to them for my prescriptions for klonopin. The prescriptions were free at first then I had to pay a very nominal fee after 3 months, but by that time I had applied for medicaid and was approved. If you don't have insurance and make less than $910.00 a month (may want to check with your local office as that amount may be different in your state) then you will most likely qualify for assistance.  I urge you to check out those resouces. Our taxes pay for those so we can use them in times of need.

 

As for medicatons....none of is here are doctors and none of us can recommend medications. Ashton does speak about some medications that may help some people in w/d. You can always discuss that with a doctor. If I was to try a medication I would try something non-narcotic  and I would stay away from psychiatric medications as much as possible. I did try a beta-blocker in early w/d and it did work for a while but I discontinued it because I wanted to stay as natural as possible, but my situation (living with my parents) allowed for me to do so. We all have different situations and some of us need to function to pay the rent or take care of kids, etc etc. At the end of the day...you gotta do what ya gotta do to survive until you can get to a better place with more options.

 

Chrisw

[[ch...]]

jane doe,

 

Is your phenobarbital running out today?  Valium has a half-life of 200 hours, so that means that after 200 hours half of the Valium that  was in your system has left. That means you still have half of the Valium in your system. It will probably take another week and a half for all of the Valium to clear, or most of the active metabolites. 

 

When I went off, my heart rate went up to 160 beats per minute for a few months. Since I don't have a heart condition, I wasn't particularly concerned.  The medications that are used to reduce the heart rate are called beta blockers. They block the effect of adrenaline.  They can be helpful, but you will also build tolerance, and they also have to be tapered. 

 

If you go to the ER, you may want to ask the doctor about phenobarbital, and whether it would be wise to continue it for another 2 weeks. IMO

 

Thanks! Im actually trying to ween off the pheno (10-15 mg every three days) but it kinda is like my clutch for now....it is very weak but does kinda help subside the terrible feelings, at least for the next few days. The valium should be completley out of me by tomorrow. im at 192 hrs off (8 days) so its either gone or leaving by tomorrow...

 

Just to clarify (especially if others are readint this), at 200 hrs HALF of the potency or active ingredients will be out of your system at 200 hrs...HALF...so you still have the other half still in there. So if that half took 200 hrs to come out then you can expect the other half to take another 200hrs, right?  Does that make sense?  I know this can be confusing, but the details can be quite important when trying to understand the process of elimination. If this doesn't make sense I will try to expalin it another way.

 

 

Chrisw

[Guest [ja...]]

no the half life of valium is 36-100 hrs, the 2nd is 200 hours

[[ch...]]

I mispoke...I meant the  active metabolite of diazepam is 36-200. This means that half the active products of diazepam are still in the bloodstream up to 200 hours after a single dose. That is from Ashton herself.

 

 

Chrisw

[[ch...]]

What I said was...."200 hrs HALF of the potency or active ingredients will be out of your system at 200 hrs...HALF...so you still have the other half still in there"

 

Chrisw

[[dm...]]

That's wonderful news.

 

So I'm on approximately 240 hours now which means the real symptoms haven't even kicked in yet? I'm really hoping tomorrow is better than today. Sigh

[Guest [ja...]]

someone may need to clarify this...

 

i found this info months ago.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

[[ch...]]

someone may need to clarify this...

 

i found this info months ago.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

Okay...let me explain it this way.  There is an a half life (the time the medication level is at half of it's amount or quantity in your system) and the active metabolite of valium ( the part of the medication that is still working or affecting gaba receptors).

 

Imagine drinking a pepsi and having the caffiene starting to work while giving you a boost. Now...the boost from the caffiene (the active metalolite) may start to wear off as more time passes after you inititally took for last sip of it, thus becoming less potent, but the syrup, sugar, food coloring from the pepsi may be detected seperatly from the caffiene itself.  This is not a perfect analyogy of active metabolities vs half life. I am just trying to get you to understand that they are different in how they are detected in the body.

 

Here is how Ashton says it...

 

"Duration of effects. The speed of elimination of a benzodiazepine is obviously important in determining the duration of its effects. However, the duration of apparent action is usually considerably less than the half-life. With most benzodiazepines, noticeable effects usually wear off within a few hours. Nevertheless the drugs, as long as they are present, continue to exert subtle effects within the body. These effects may become apparent during continued use or may appear as withdrawal symptoms when dosage is reduced or the drug is stopped"

 

 

Chrisw

 

So the active metabolites can still be affecting gaba in the body even though the half life of the medication is less than the active metabolites half life. Two different things.

 

Someone chime in if I totally got this wrong.  lol 

 

Chrisw

[[ch...]]

The information I quoted can be found in chapter one of the Ashton Manual.

 

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm