WHAT TO EXPECT

[Guest [ja...]]

day 7= 1 week!

 

Goodnight everyone!

[[ch...]]

ahhh english please lol jk

 

OK so if i were to feel major symptoms would i feel them by now? lol

 

For myself, I didn't notice most of my w/d symptoms until a few weeks later. Valium has a longer half life so it can take a bit longer to notice the brunt of symptoms unlike xanax, ativan and klonopin which have a much shorter half life.

 

 

Chrisw

[Guest [ja...]]

i can see maybe 2 weeks

[[we...]]

Jane, I think that if you're going to get symptoms, they should be increasing in intensity.  I did not have experience with Valium, if you are feeling better instead of worse, I would say that is a good sign.

[Guest [ja...]]

yay, as today is day 7, 1 week!

[Guest [ja...]]

my leg shook for like 1 second then i jumped... what is that?

[[af...]]

Most people on here have that. I am not sure what they call it. I have had those on and off for a while. It get's better. Don't worry.

[Guest [ja...]]

scared me

[[jo...]]

Jane, I just read your sig.

2 years on benzos, only gradual use.

you were off the ativan and xanax in november 26th.

You got to 30mg valium, which you tapered 5mg every 2 weeks.

You were put on high amounts of Phenobarbital (90 MG) and rapid tapered off that, until 29th April.

 

I know you want off this stuff, but that was an extrememly rapid taper for someone on large amounts of benzos.

As valium stays in your system for 3 weeks, I urge you to reinstate and taper much more slowly.

5-10% cuts all the way down. This way the cut size reduces as the dose reduces to avoid shocks to the system.

You have two weeks to reinstate, but you only have one as you have been off a week.

Waiting any longer may mean reinstatement doesnt work.

 

I am writing this to avoid you feeling massive suffering in 2 weeks.

 

If I have got any of the above wrong, please let me know, as benzos are impairing my understanding of things.

 

[Guest [ja...]]

theres no turning back now...im a week out

[Guest [ja...]]

didnt get much sleep (my fault mainly) had a weird feeling in my leg that made me jump and wake up out of almost falling asleep, I dont feel as positive as other days...i hope the big wave isnt gonna crash on me...I pray.

[[ch...]]

theres no turning back now...im a week out

 

Actually, I was always told that you one has 30 days to reinstate after their initial cold turkey/detox/rapid taper. It would probably be a good idea to reinstate at this point if that is an option for you. The risk is too great

 

"It cannot be too strongly stressed that withdrawal symptoms can be minimised and largely avoided by slow tapering, tailored to the individual's needs as outlined in Chapter II. However, some long-term benzodiazepine users begin to experience "withdrawal" symptoms even though they continue taking the drug. This is due to the development of drug tolerance (Chapter I) which sometimes leads doctors to increase the dosage or add another benzodiazepine. Analysis of the first 50 patients who attended my benzodiazepine withdrawal clinic showed that all of them had symptoms on first presentation while still on benzodiazepines (12 of them were taking two prescribed benzodiazepines at once). Their symptoms included the full range of psychological and physical symptoms usually described as benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms. The process of slow benzodiazepine tapering in these patients caused only slight exacerbation of these symptoms, which then declined after withdrawal."

 

"People who develop severe symptoms on benzodiazepine withdrawal have usually come off the drugs too rapidly. Lack of explanation of the symptoms has often added to their distress and has introduced fears ("Am I going mad?") which themselves magnify the symptoms. A few, because of these frightening experiences, have ended up with a condition akin to post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). But a proper understanding of the reasons for and nature of any symptoms that arise can do much to allay the bewilderment and fear associated with benzodiazepine withdrawal and can also help prevent long-term sequelae. Withdrawal reactions are in fact a normal response to the discontinuation of many chronically used drugs including alcohol, opiates, antipsychotics, antidepressants, and even some medications for angina and hypertension."

 

"Like many other issues concerning benzodiazepines, the answers to these questions are still unclear. Benzodiazepine concentrations in the blood have been measured and shown to reach undetectable levels in 3-4 weeks after cessation of use in people withdrawn from clinical doses. Information on benzodiazepine concentrations in the brain and other tissues is difficult to obtain, especially in humans. Benzodiazepines certainly enter the brain and also dissolve in all fatty (lipid-containing) tissues including fat deposits all over the body. It is possible that they linger in such tissues for some time after blood levels have become undetectable. However, most body tissues are in equilibrium with the blood that constantly perfuses them, and there is no known mechanism whereby benzodiazepines could be "locked up" in tissues such as the brain. There is no data on how long benzodiazepines remain in bones, which have a lower fat content but also a slower rate of cell turnover."

 

"Speed of elimination. Benzodiazepines also differ markedly in the speed at which they are metabolised (in the liver) and eliminated from the body (in the urine) (Table 1). For example, the "half-life" (time taken for the blood concentration to fall to half its initial value after a single dose) for triazolam (Halcion) is only 2-5 hours, while the half-life of diazepam is 20-100 hours, and that of an active metabolite of diazepam (desmethyldiazepam) is 36-200 hours. This means that half the active products of diazepam are still in the bloodstream up to 200 hours after a single dose. Clearly, with repeated daily dosing accumulation occurs and high concentrations can build up in the body (mainly in fatty tissues). As Table 1 shows, there is a considerable variation between individuals in the rate at which they metabolise benzodiazepines"

 

 

I can't make up your mind for you, but if it were up to me I would consider reinstating and doing a gradual taper. Some may say just to endure it and see what happens. Ultimately, it's up to you. We can only give you so much advice and information. If I even try to tell you how it could turn out I will probably get a bunch of people that tell me to stop trying to scare you. Truth is...it could either way. You could heal and move on and things could be just fine. However, if it goes the other way..you will be awfully upset that someone didn't warn you on just how bad it could be. To avoid the potential of a disasterous situation....tapering is the way to go. Maybe you could just wait another week or so to see what happens. I have read of some that get hit several months out....a delayed w/d so to speak. I have also read of people that get better fairly quickly. Might be better just to wait and see if you start getting worse in the nextt week or so. Ya just don't want to get passed the 30 day mark before you lose your window to reinstate.

 

I hope this helps you Janedoe.

 

Chrisw

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[ch...]]

I just posted this on your other thread as well.

 

"theres no turning back now...im a week out"

 

Actually, I was always told that you one has 30 days to reinstate after their initial cold turkey/detox/rapid taper. It would probably be a good idea to reinstate at this point if that is an option for you. The risk is too great

 

"It cannot be too strongly stressed that withdrawal symptoms can be minimised and largely avoided by slow tapering, tailored to the individual's needs as outlined in Chapter II. However, some long-term benzodiazepine users begin to experience "withdrawal" symptoms even though they continue taking the drug. This is due to the development of drug tolerance (Chapter I) which sometimes leads doctors to increase the dosage or add another benzodiazepine. Analysis of the first 50 patients who attended my benzodiazepine withdrawal clinic showed that all of them had symptoms on first presentation while still on benzodiazepines (12 of them were taking two prescribed benzodiazepines at once). Their symptoms included the full range of psychological and physical symptoms usually described as benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms. The process of slow benzodiazepine tapering in these patients caused only slight exacerbation of these symptoms, which then declined after withdrawal."

 

"People who develop severe symptoms on benzodiazepine withdrawal have usually come off the drugs too rapidly. Lack of explanation of the symptoms has often added to their distress and has introduced fears ("Am I going mad?") which themselves magnify the symptoms. A few, because of these frightening experiences, have ended up with a condition akin to post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). But a proper understanding of the reasons for and nature of any symptoms that arise can do much to allay the bewilderment and fear associated with benzodiazepine withdrawal and can also help prevent long-term sequelae. Withdrawal reactions are in fact a normal response to the discontinuation of many chronically used drugs including alcohol, opiates, antipsychotics, antidepressants, and even some medications for angina and hypertension."

 

"Like many other issues concerning benzodiazepines, the answers to these questions are still unclear. Benzodiazepine concentrations in the blood have been measured and shown to reach undetectable levels in 3-4 weeks after cessation of use in people withdrawn from clinical doses. Information on benzodiazepine concentrations in the brain and other tissues is difficult to obtain, especially in humans. Benzodiazepines certainly enter the brain and also dissolve in all fatty (lipid-containing) tissues including fat deposits all over the body. It is possible that they linger in such tissues for some time after blood levels have become undetectable. However, most body tissues are in equilibrium with the blood that constantly perfuses them, and there is no known mechanism whereby benzodiazepines could be "locked up" in tissues such as the brain. There is no data on how long benzodiazepines remain in bones, which have a lower fat content but also a slower rate of cell turnover."

 

"Speed of elimination. Benzodiazepines also differ markedly in the speed at which they are metabolised (in the liver) and eliminated from the body (in the urine) (Table 1). For example, the "half-life" (time taken for the blood concentration to fall to half its initial value after a single dose) for triazolam (Halcion) is only 2-5 hours, while the half-life of diazepam is 20-100 hours, and that of an active metabolite of diazepam (desmethyldiazepam) is 36-200 hours. This means that half the active products of diazepam are still in the bloodstream up to 200 hours after a single dose. Clearly, with repeated daily dosing accumulation occurs and high concentrations can build up in the body (mainly in fatty tissues). As Table 1 shows, there is a considerable variation between individuals in the rate at which they metabolise benzodiazepines"

 

 

I can't make up your mind for you, but if it were up to me I would consider reinstating and doing a gradual taper. Some may say just to endure it and see what happens. Ultimately, it's up to you. We can only give you so much advice and information. If I even try to tell you how it could turn out I will probably get a bunch of people that tell me to stop trying to scare you. Truth is...it could either way. You could heal and move on and things could be just fine. However, if it goes the other way..you will be awfully upset that someone didn't warn you on just how bad it could be. To avoid the potential of a disasterous situation....tapering is the way to go. Maybe you could just wait another week or so to see what happens. I have read of some that get hit several months out....a delayed w/d so to speak. I have also read of people that get better fairly quickly. Might be better just to wait and see if you start getting worse in the nextt week or so. Ya just don't want to get passed the 30 day mark before you lose your window to reinstate.

 

I hope this helps you Janedoe.

 

Chrisw

 

[[ch...]]

my leg shook for like 1 second then i jumped... what is that?

 

 

This should help you to understand it.You may want to read The Ashton Manual a few times to get yourself familiar with benzodiazepine withdrawal. It will help to alleviate some of the fears associated with symptoms. Not knowing what was happening to me was very scary, but once I understood the symptoms of withdrawal it allowed me to handle withdrawal much better. 

 

"Insomnia, nightmares, sleep disturbance. The sleep engendered by benzodiazepines, though it may seem refreshing at first, is not a normal sleep. Benzodiazepines inhibit both dreaming sleep (rapid eye movement sleep, REMS) and deep sleep (slow wave sleep, SWS). The extra sleep time that benzodiazepines provide is spent mainly in light sleep, termed Stage 2 sleep. REM and SWS are the two most important stages of sleep and are essential to health. Sleep deprivation studies show that any deficit is quickly made up by a rebound to above normal levels as soon as circumstances permit.

 

In regular benzodiazepine users REMS and SWS tend to return to pre-drug levels (because of tolerance) but the initial deficit remains. On withdrawal, even after years of benzodiazepine use, there is a marked rebound increase in REMS which also becomes more intense. As a result, dreams become more vivid, nightmares may occur and cause frequent awakenings during the night. This is a normal reaction to benzodiazepine withdrawal and, though unpleasant, it is a sign that recovery is beginning to take place. When the deficit of REMS is made up, usually after about 4-6 weeks, the nightmares become less frequent and gradually fade away.

 

Return of SWS seems to take longer after withdrawal, probably because anxiety levels are high, the brain is overactive and it is hard to relax completely. Subjects may have difficulty in getting off to sleep and may experience "restless legs syndrome", sudden muscle jerks (myoclonus) just as they are dropping off or be jolted suddenly by a hallucination of a loud bang (hypnagogic hallucination) which wakes them up again. These disturbances may also last for several weeks, sometimes months.

 

However, all these symptoms do settle in time. The need for sleep is so powerful that normal sleep will eventually reassert itself. Meanwhile, attention to sleep hygiene measures including avoiding tea, coffee, other stimulants or alcohol near bedtime, relaxation tapes, anxiety management techniques and physical exercise may be helpful. Taking all or most of the dose of benzodiazepine at night during the reduction period may also help."

 

 

 

Chrisw

[[ch...]]

I erased this post at the risk of being redundant.

 

 

 

Chrisw

[Guest [ja...]]

I dont have that option..otherwise id be tapering.

[[Ch...]]

Jane,

You sound good.  Here's wishing all continues to go smoothly for you from now on!  The program you describe sounds excellent.

Keep in touch.

 

Challis

[Guest [ja...]]

he was waxing my eyebrows and i usually am a chatter box but today i am not  doing so well. he was trying to make conversation with me and i heard someone that worked at the salon "i need my vicodin, my head hurts" to him, casually...i shook my head and said "dont wanna mess with that stuff or worse off benzos theyll really screw you up! The guy that was doing my eyebrows said omg i know! He said I was on xanax bars eight of them a day for 9 years! Then my interest and curiousity got me and i asked him "how'd u do it"? He told me he was cut off from all his pills including xanax somas and vicodins after 9 years cold turkey! He was also a heavy drinker. I asked him "did u gradually get off or go to rehab?" and he said NO. I was in shock 8 xanax bars a day? Thats 16mg of Xanax!!!! I asked him how his recovery was and told him about me and how early i am in my recovery and he said everything was just horrific for the first 30-45 days but after that he got better and better very quickly...Idk 16 mg is a lot for me to believe he didnt go into acute w/d and die tbh. But he told me things will get better soon, it was bad, but there are far worse things to endure in life...He said it was one of the worst but after 9 years poppin 8 bars a day, 3 years later hes 100% healed and has been for the last 2 years completley! Just some motivation for some of you and those that are scared. He was a really nice guy and his words of encouragement will stay with me when I transition next week up north. I told him about this community and what he would say to someone that was in his shoes, and he said "Just ride it through, if you can make it through this, you can make it through anything in life." 

[[sa...]]

Thank you for sharing this...This is what everyone needs to read 

[[De...]]

Hi janedoe,

That's really uplifting !

Just what we need to hear.

Thank you so much for sharing 

Debbie 

[[De...]]

my leg shook for like 1 second then i jumped... what is that?

Hi yes,

I posted about this very thing earlier today.

I believe it is an involuntary muscle movement..myoclonic jerk is the term.

I experienced this all night last night. It is very unsettling but I believe it is quite common.

Hopefully we wont experience this symptom too often.

Debbie 

[Guest [ja...]]

your welcome! makes me smile at the end of the day even when i dont want to.

[Guest [ja...]]

ya i get them even when i am not on benzos too like a long time ago but im sure its a symptom of w/d

 

[[we...]]

If you are going to a hair salon, you're doing really really well.  Hang in there.

[Guest [ja...]]

U really think so Challis? I really hope so. Today was rough...I hope it gets better not worse!

 

No but do u really think so?