The Long Hold Support Group

[[no...]]

 

 

Maybe one of the brave souls here should start a thread on protracted asking if anyone suffered from a long hold.

 

Any volunteers?

 

I would not do it unless some one wants ''death'' as a symptom, mind at least it would only be one time and very fleeting so maybe its not so bad.  Shame the other symptoms are not the same , you just feel like your f-in dying  for ages man, but you get to live to fight another day at least How to find out what you want to and live is very simple, go to the thread and look at any topic and read the signatures underneath. Many of them are either CT or a really fast taper, not one says micro taper and long holds. Even people who were on the drug for year's tapered off over 3 ,4 months with no holds.

 

See you all tomorrow  Good night from UK

 

 

 

Love nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

[[ly...]]

 

 

Nova - LOL!!! :laugh:

 

"DEATH" :D

 

Too funny!

[[no...]]

Completely unrelated question--how do you change your settings so that the most recent post in a thread shows up first, not the original one?

 

 

 

Look to the right of the topic and it theres a little box with a arrow pointing forward and it says ''last  post '' click on that

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[de...]]

i havent been around to sick to even post

 

I am at my wits end..got chocked on  lettuce last thursday night so here we went again..the hr has been way up since then and cant swallow anything more than broth, applesauce, baby food , jello, and have been drinking tea, water and v8.

 

My b/p has been stable..and my o2 is 98 ..but my heart rate goes from 90 to 135 and i woke up this morning and both my eyed were running..had noticed last night that just my left eye was blurry..has anyone had just one eye messed up..

 

i have tingling over my head and left side of face..and a headache (probably from not eating)

 

took a rescue dose today out of desperation..and it didnt seem to help at all..not sure what to do next..i cant hang on and keep this happening any more but dont have any answers and as most of you know the docs have no answers either..

 

would really appreciate some feedback on what to do now..?

 

i am scared well more terrified that i am not going to make it through this and i am not trying to scare anyone..i just know i feel really bad and cant seem to figure out whats going on..

 

please tell me something to try and what to do with this mess i am in..i cant just keep taking rescue doses and updosing..thats not what i am wanting to do..

 

joe drove my for over 2 hrs up and down the beach to try and relax on thurs night it helped some but once back home back to the same thing and the not being able to swallow is the worse.

 

and the last 2 mornings when i have turned the tv on in the dark bedroom it takes me a minute or two before i can tolerate it to look at it..that has never happened before..joe says it could be the med..more things seem to be happening

 

i just need to hear from my buddies here that they have been through this and help me on what to do..

 

hugs to all

 

[[Va...]]

i havent been around to sick to even post

 

I am at my wits end..got chocked on  lettuce last thursday night so here we went again..the hr has been way up since then and cant swallow anything more than broth, applesauce, baby food , jello, and have been drinking tea, water and v8.

 

My b/p has been stable..and my o2 is 98 ..but my heart rate goes from 90 to 135 and i woke up this morning and both my eyed were running..had noticed last night that just my left eye was blurry..has anyone had just one eye messed up..

 

i have tingling over my head and left side of face..and a headache (probably from not eating)

 

took a rescue dose today out of desperation..and it didnt seem to help at all..not sure what to do next..i cant hang on and keep this happening any more but dont have any answers and as most of you know the docs have no answers either..

 

would really appreciate some feedback on what to do now..?

 

i am scared well more terrified that i am not going to make it through this and i am not trying to scare anyone..i just know i feel really bad and cant seem to figure out whats going on..

 

please tell me something to try and what to do with this mess i am in..i cant just keep taking rescue doses and updosing..thats not what i am wanting to do..

 

joe drove my for over 2 hrs up and down the beach to try and relax on thurs night it helped some but once back home back to the same thing and the not being able to swallow is the worse.

 

and the last 2 mornings when i have turned the tv on in the dark bedroom it takes me a minute or two before i can tolerate it to look at it..that has never happened before..joe says it could be the med..more things seem to be happening

 

i just need to hear from my buddies here that they have been through this and help me on what to do..

 

hugs to all

Sometimes updosing can be counterproductive. Its always made my sxs worse, but it does work for some.  My advice is to hold until the sxs lessen or pass completely and you stabilize before changing anything . The things you describe are all very common to withdrawal. I know how frustrating it is. Holding can only help your CNS catch up and reduce your sxs IMO.

[[li...]]

I know everyone's mileage may vary--but did anyone lose the major sedation/brain fog/fAtigue/zombieness from holding or am I stuck with that until I get lower in my taper?  I was told earlier in my FB group that those side effect type things don't go until you get lower or off.

 

It's weird cuz some things are better in week 4 but I feel more sedated/harder to think. Hopefully that's just transitional.

 

Gracias amigos/amigas

Liza

[[ca...]]

I know everyone's mileage may vary--but did anyone lose the major sedation/brain fog/fAtigue/zombieness from holding or am I stuck with that until I get lower in my taper?  I was told earlier in my FB group that those side effect type things don't go until you get lower or off.

 

It's weird cuz some things are better in week 4 but I feel more sedated/harder to think. Hopefully that's just transitional.

 

Gracias amigos/amigas

Liza

Liza, everyone is different things come and go ~ Mi Vida Loca !

[[Va...]]

I know everyone's mileage may vary--but did anyone lose the major sedation/brain fog/fAtigue/zombieness from holding or am I stuck with that until I get lower in my taper?  I was told earlier in my FB group that those side effect type things don't go until you get lower or off.

 

It's weird cuz some things are better in week 4 but I feel more sedated/harder to think. Hopefully that's just transitional.

 

Gracias amigos/amigas

Liza

Yes this plagues me at times, but it is becoming less prominent with the passage of time. I felt mildly sedated and cognitively impaired yesterday, but not today. I believe it's transitional and just proof your CNS is adjusting. Most things are better for me, but I've found the sedation and difficulty thinking seem to be the last sxs to go for me before stabilizing. No sedation today and easier to think, but not quite where I want to be. I know my baseline and not quite there yet, but close. It's encouraging that some things are better for you. That's great!  Just fake it till you make it lol. Once you stabilize, you'll be so much happier and in a better place. You'll be able to resume your taper with more confidence and the knowledge that you're actually going to make it!  -V

[[li...]]

I'm holding you to all of this Valley. It's a good thing I don't know where you live!! 😜

I have to say I was dealing with these symptoms while on a two mile walk with my husband--farther than I've walked in a year (which is painful to say because I used to be a runner before this setback). Last week I couldn't manage 1/2 mile so while it was hard today, it wasn't impossible and I'm not overwhelmed afterward. So week over week I'm seeing an overall upward trend but up and down day to day like everyone else at week five

[[Va...]]

I'm holding you to all of this Valley. It's a good thing I don't know where you live!! 😜

I have to say I was dealing with these symptoms while on a two mile walk with my husband--farther than I've walked in a year (which is painful to say because I used to be a runner before this setback). Last week I couldn't manage 1/2 mile so while it was hard today, it wasn't impossible and I'm not overwhelmed afterward. So week over week I'm seeing an overall upward trend but up and down day to day like everyone else at week five

You'll be running again before you know it. 

[[de...]]

i havent been around to sick to even post

 

I am at my wits end..got chocked on  lettuce last thursday night so here we went again..the hr has been way up since then and cant swallow anything more than broth, applesauce, baby food , jello, and have been drinking tea, water and v8.

 

My b/p has been stable..and my o2 is 98 ..but my heart rate goes from 90 to 135 and i woke up this morning and both my eyed were running..had noticed last night that just my left eye was blurry..has anyone had just one eye messed up..

 

i have tingling over my head and left side of face..and a headache (probably from not eating)

 

took a rescue dose today out of desperation..and it didnt seem to help at all..not sure what to do next..i cant hang on and keep this happening any more but dont have any answers and as most of you know the docs have no answers either..

 

would really appreciate some feedback on what to do now..?

 

i am scared well more terrified that i am not going to make it through this and i am not trying to scare anyone..i just know i feel really bad and cant seem to figure out whats going on..

 

please tell me something to try and what to do with this mess i am in..i cant just keep taking rescue doses and updosing..thats not what i am wanting to do..

 

joe drove my for over 2 hrs up and down the beach to try and relax on thurs night it helped some but once back home back to the same thing and the not being able to swallow is the worse.

 

and the last 2 mornings when i have turned the tv on in the dark bedroom it takes me a minute or two before i can tolerate it to look at it..that has never happened before..joe says it could be the med..more things seem to be happening

 

i just need to hear from my buddies here that they have been through this and help me on what to do..

 

hugs to all

Sometimes updosing can be counterproductive. Its always made my sxs worse, but it does work for some.  My advice is to hold until the sxs lessen or pass completely and you stabilize before changing anything . The things you describe are all very common to withdrawal. I know how frustrating it is. Holding can only help your CNS catch up and reduce your sxs IMO.

 

thanks for writing back

 

and i sure hope the updosing didnt hurt but cant look back now..just trying really hard to hold on..dont want to go back anymore cause would just mean having to travel down the same road i already been down..and thanks about reassuring me about the withdrawal..i guess what scares me this time is the fact that its just my left eye that feels funny and yet they were both watering really bad when i woke up this morning..an it feels like theres something in it but i know theres not and it blurry to look out of it..usually both of my eyes get blurry at the same time cant remember it ever just being one..

 

thanks again

 

deep

[[Va...]]

i havent been around to sick to even post

 

I am at my wits end..got chocked on  lettuce last thursday night so here we went again..the hr has been way up since then and cant swallow anything more than broth, applesauce, baby food , jello, and have been drinking tea, water and v8.

 

My b/p has been stable..and my o2 is 98 ..but my heart rate goes from 90 to 135 and i woke up this morning and both my eyed were running..had noticed last night that just my left eye was blurry..has anyone had just one eye messed up..

 

i have tingling over my head and left side of face..and a headache (probably from not eating)

 

took a rescue dose today out of desperation..and it didnt seem to help at all..not sure what to do next..i cant hang on and keep this happening any more but dont have any answers and as most of you know the docs have no answers either..

 

would really appreciate some feedback on what to do now..?

 

i am scared well more terrified that i am not going to make it through this and i am not trying to scare anyone..i just know i feel really bad and cant seem to figure out whats going on..

 

please tell me something to try and what to do with this mess i am in..i cant just keep taking rescue doses and updosing..thats not what i am wanting to do..

 

joe drove my for over 2 hrs up and down the beach to try and relax on thurs night it helped some but once back home back to the same thing and the not being able to swallow is the worse.

 

and the last 2 mornings when i have turned the tv on in the dark bedroom it takes me a minute or two before i can tolerate it to look at it..that has never happened before..joe says it could be the med..more things seem to be happening

 

i just need to hear from my buddies here that they have been through this and help me on what to do..

 

hugs to all

Sometimes updosing can be counterproductive. Its always made my sxs worse, but it does work for some.  My advice is to hold until the sxs lessen or pass completely and you stabilize before changing anything . The things you describe are all very common to withdrawal. I know how frustrating it is. Holding can only help your CNS catch up and reduce your sxs IMO.

 

thanks for writing back

 

and i sure hope the updosing didnt hurt but cant look back now..just trying really hard to hold on..dont want to go back anymore cause would just mean having to travel down the same road i already been down..and thanks about reassuring me about the withdrawal..i guess what scares me this time is the fact that its just my left eye that feels funny and yet they were both watering really bad when i woke up this morning..an it feels like theres something in it but i know theres not and it blurry to look out of it..usually both of my eyes get blurry at the same time cant remember it ever just being one..

 

thanks again

 

deep

No problem. I sometimes have one eye blurrier than the other. It does feel weird. -V

[[...]]

I know everyone's mileage may vary--but did anyone lose the major sedation/brain fog/fAtigue/zombieness from holding or am I stuck with that until I get lower in my taper?  I was told earlier in my FB group that those side effect type things don't go until you get lower or off.

 

It's weird cuz some things are better in week 4 but I feel more sedated/harder to think. Hopefully that's just transitional.

 

Gracias amigos/amigas

Liza

Yes this plagues me at times, but it is becoming less prominent with the passage of time. I felt mildly sedated and cognitively impaired yesterday, but not today. I believe it's transitional and just proof your CNS is adjusting. Most things are better for me, but I've found the sedation and difficulty thinking seem to be the last sxs to go for me before stabilizing. No sedation today and easier to think, but not quite where I want to be. I know my baseline and not quite there yet, but close. It's encouraging that some things are better for you. That's great!  Just fake it till you make it lol. Once you stabilize, you'll be so much happier and in a better place. You'll be able to resume your taper with more confidence and the knowledge that you're actually going to make it!  -V

 

Oh how I sympathise! The fatigue/sedation... this is THE symptom which has motivated my withdrawal and I know it is very common (see in the support groups "Extreme Fatigue Support Group"). Valley, I'm glad you get better days than others, Liza, I'm so happy you are seeing some improvement as you hold 

Personally I can't say I've seen much improvement from 4mg to 1.24  I was probably more energetic during my summer hold but there were too many other parameters to really say. A sure thing is that going down (at the adequate speed holding when needed) is the right thing to do  :thumbsup:

[[Va...]]

I know everyone's mileage may vary--but did anyone lose the major sedation/brain fog/fAtigue/zombieness from holding or am I stuck with that until I get lower in my taper?  I was told earlier in my FB group that those side effect type things don't go until you get lower or off.

 

It's weird cuz some things are better in week 4 but I feel more sedated/harder to think. Hopefully that's just transitional.

 

Gracias amigos/amigas

Liza

Yes this plagues me at times, but it is becoming less prominent with the passage of time. I felt mildly sedated and cognitively impaired yesterday, but not today. I believe it's transitional and just proof your CNS is adjusting. Most things are better for me, but I've found the sedation and difficulty thinking seem to be the last sxs to go for me before stabilizing. No sedation today and easier to think, but not quite where I want to be. I know my baseline and not quite there yet, but close. It's encouraging that some things are better for you. That's great!  Just fake it till you make it lol. Once you stabilize, you'll be so much happier and in a better place. You'll be able to resume your taper with more confidence and the knowledge that you're actually going to make it!  -V

 

Oh how I sympathise! The fatigue/sedation... this is THE symptom which has motivated my withdrawal and I know it is very common (see in the support groups "Extreme Fatigue Support Group"). Valley, I'm glad you get better days than others, Liza, I'm so happy you are seeing some improvement as you hold 

Personally I can't say I've seen much improvement from 4mg to 1.24  I was probably more energetic during my summer hold but there were too many other parameters to really say. A sure thing is that going down (at the adequate speed holding when needed) is the right thing to do  :thumbsup:

[[Va...]]

These quotes represent my experience and philosophy on long holds:

"I highly doubt that holding will harm you, but I've seen people who've taken very long to recover after getting messed up during too-aggressive or unstable tapers. It doesn't look all that different (in terms of symptoms) from when people CT or taper all the way off a med too harshly and end up in protracted withdrawal. It's just that people end up in that same shape without actually having come all the way off the meds."

 

 

"If you've thrown yourself into chaotic withdrawal syndrome by ill-advised experimentation (or poor advice), holding is probably preferable to further decreasing or quitting altogether.

 

You need to bring some order to the chaos. If you hold at one level (of all your drugs), you are at least giving your nervous system some stability. Given the constants -- which still may be causing adverse effects, etc. -- your nervous system will regroup over time.

 

Once you see some consistency in symptom pattern, you can carefully adjust dosage to see what will help.

 

If you have been tapering systematically and run into a rough spot, holding can help you get past it. At least, when you hold, you can track your symptom pattern and see what the balance of waves and windows might be. If windows are gradually getting longer and more frequent -- a positive sign -- your nervous system is adjusting to the cumulative decreases and you will eventually be in a position to continue tapering.

 

If during a hold the windows pattern is not promising, a slight updose may be called for."

[[li...]]

How long do we hold before we know if it's not going to work and we need an updose?  I'm not thinking that way because I'm still wanting to hold, but this morning is a challenge. Anecdotally people have said 2-3 months to stabilize right?  Even OSCAR who has held for over a year said he was 85% at 3 months.

Love y'all

Liza G

[[Va...]]

How long do we hold before we know if it's not going to work and we need an updose?  I'm not thinking that way because I'm still wanting to hold, but this morning is a challenge. Anecdotally people have said 2-3 months to stabilize right?  Even OSCAR who has held for over a year said he was 85% at 3 months.

Love y'all

Liza G

Hi Liz.  I'm sticking to the 2-3 month rule just because of my experience.  The improvement in symptoms doesn't seem to happen until holding for a period of time then Windows start to appear albeit they are short lived at times.  It's still a good sign if you're getting windows as it indicates that everything is normalizing.  It's a slow process and as you know, nonlinear.  That's what makes it so frustrating.  The biggest thing I've noticed at just over 2 months is I now see daily rather than weekly and sporadic improvement.  I feel better today than I have in months.  I've already walked twice.  I'm sleeping very good and only waking a couple of times.  The blanket of haze and fog is slowly being pulled back and clarity is returning.  I got up this morning and did the treadmill and then saw how nice it was outside so I went again for a total 4 miles already.  I still plan to hold myself to 3 months just as a Guinea pig and to be able to put the misery of opiate withdrawal and a disastrous start of a benzo taper behind me. You are slowly becoming more functional and stabilizing. Just read over your posts! 

 

[[li...]]

Thanks Valley. I'm having a similar experience in that when you look back over the week you say "I couldn't have done 'X' a week ago. I'm so thrilled for your improvements!!  Thanks for being part of this thread

Liza

[[Pl...]]

I have a really stupid question and was hoping someone would be able to simplify answer a response.... I may be making it more complicated then needs to be......

 

I am looking to do a daily micro taper soon where I will be reducing liquid daily..... My question is when people say to hold if they need to do they mean for example " I will be reducing  0.1 ml each day for 1 month equalling 3 percent to start. If I reduce for 2 days and don't feel right does hold mean stop reducing which puts me right back at the original dose or does that mean I can keep reducing as originally planned for the month but don't go any further after that point? 

 

After those 2 days if im supposed to hold means do not reduce then does that mean I have to keep track  of the days i didnt?  because essentially i will not reach that 3 percent until ive done it every day for a month?  very confused with all of this stuff .... Please help....

[[li...]]

Please--I am holding at pulling 3.30 ml from 60 ml of milk a day. Which means I do this same 3.30 ml pull every day and divide the rest into four doses throughout the day. If after holding I decide to move forward 3% a month I will pull 3.36 the first day, 3.42 the second day, 3.48 the third day etc. in my case 3% a month calls for me to pull out an additional .06 ml every day.

 

Then if I decide I need to hold again--say at a pull of 4.24/60 ml, I will do that same size pull until I end the hold and then move forward at whatever percentage I think I can tolerate that month. If I bounce back in a few days vs a few weeks or months, I will figure that a healthy percentage for me. Hope that helps!!

Liza

[[Va...]]

I have a really stupid question and was hoping someone would be able to simplify answer a response.... I may be making it more complicated then needs to be......

 

I am looking to do a daily micro taper soon where I will be reducing liquid daily..... My question is when people say to hold if they need to do they mean for example " I will be reducing  0.1 ml each day for 1 month equalling 3 percent to start. If I reduce for 2 days and don't feel right does hold mean stop reducing which puts me right back at the original dose or does that mean I can keep reducing as originally planned for the month but don't go any further after that point? 

 

After those 2 days if im supposed to hold means do not reduce then does that mean I have to keep track  of the days i didnt?  because essentially i will not reach that 3 percent until ive done it every day for a month?  very confused with all of this stuff .... Please help....

It can be confusing and yes when you hold, you hold the dose that you are currently on from your daily taper. It helps to have a spreadsheet and write hold on the date you decided to hold. How many days you hold is up to you, but if you find you have to hold often, you can try 2.5% instead. The key is finding your personal sweet spot where you don't need to hold and can cut daily. There is also a hybrid cut and hold method where you cut a small percentage (say 2% for example and hold for 6 days and then cut again).  That method is good for those who find the daily taper lag time too difficult and/or can't find a daily reduction that works for them. Hope that helps a little. --V

[[de...]]

Valley thanks for the quotes they make perfect sense..yet we get so lost with so much going on with the systems sometimes we cant see what we need too

 

 

thanks again

 

deep

[[Va...]]

Valley thanks for the quotes they make perfect sense..yet we get so lost with so much going on with the systems sometimes we cant see what we need too

 

 

thanks again

 

deep

[[li...]]

UGH--does anyone get NEW symptoms in a long hold?  I held twice for four weeks, once before my first taper attempt last May and once after I updosed and "stabilized" in September. Both times I got this thing that felt like a chest cold/bronchitis/ pneumonia that never turned into anything--no coughing or anything--just made me feel more like hell because it revved me up. At day 35 of this hold it has started again!  What the heck??  This is also what made me think long holds didn't work for me. I had someone tell me "maybe in a hold the klonopin is building up and making you sick?"  What??  All I know is I've only had it when holding for more than 4 weeks, lasted for two and went away. Last September, just to be certain I had an exam and chest X-ray and there was nothing wrong.

 

I'm pissed (as if I can do anything about it but keep doing my honey and ginger concoctions and rest. Maybe I'll be fortunate and it won't last long. Just discouraged. Sorry to be Debbie Downer today.

Just wondering if anyone has an guess as to why. Thanks!

Liza

[[Va...]]

UGH--does anyone get NEW symptoms in a long hold?  I held twice for four weeks, once before my first taper attempt last May and once after I updosed and "stabilized" in September. Both times I got this thing that felt like a chest cold/bronchitis/ pneumonia that never turned into anything--no coughing or anything--just made me feel more like hell because it revved me up. At day 35 of this hold it has started again!  What the heck??  This is also what made me think long holds didn't work for me. I had someone tell me "maybe in a hold the klonopin is building up and making you sick?"  What??  All I know is I've only had it when holding for more than 4 weeks, lasted for two and went away. Last September, just to be certain I had an exam and chest X-ray and there was nothing wrong.

 

I'm pissed (as if I can do anything about it but keep doing my honey and ginger concoctions and rest. Maybe I'll be fortunate and it won't last long. Just discouraged. Sorry to be Debbie Downer today.

Just wondering if anyone has an guess as to why. Thanks!

Liza

My symptoms were ever changing. I don't think it's the hold. It's the cycling symptom pattern where one area of the brain is repairing and then it moves somewhere else bringing on a new symptoms. I wish it were predictable.  I would guess it will subside just like the rest.... Remember to breathe and look at how far you've come. Believe me, I've questioned this holding especially when something new came up. All sxs for me are slowly subsiding some have completely gone. It just seems like forever, but it's only been a few months. That's nothing in the big picture. Keep telling  yourself one more week. That's what I had to do and now I can wrap my head around another month as th sxs have improved so much.