The Long Hold Support Group

[[Va...]]

Very encouraging Valley as I'm on day 30 and hoping for much better things.  Are you staying at 12.5 or did you go back down to where you were?  It's amazing that you recovered so fast from both mishaps.  Please keep posting every couple of days.  This holding thing is still such a phenomenon to me and I feel like I'm the only person in the world it's not going to work for (and I used to be the most positive person in the world).

Liza

Hi Lizagal. On both attempts at updosing, I dropped immediately back to the original dose and didn't have any further issues. The only thing that's working is time. I'm  surprised I even feel this good after dropping 8.5mg in 6 weeks. I honestly believe I've felt somewhat of what a ct would feel like and it's truly hellish. I know how hard it is to hold though because the improvements are non linear just like the healing after jumping. You can feel good for a couple of days and then feel like crap for a few days. There is no rhyme or reason for the pattern. It was 6 weeks before I really started having Windows and almost started tapering again. I'm glad I've given it more time because of the nonlinear healing pattern and I was still getting hit with bad sxs every few days. Mornings were bad for a long time.  Now mornings are  better. I have to force myself to get up, but once up, I feel great instead of dragging all day until the afternoons and evenings. My only real symptoms now are muscle pain and very slight cog fog. The muscle pain I expect as this has exacerbated my chronic pain condition. The cog fog is so slight I can deal with it. I plan to hold at a minimum of between 2 to 4 more weeks because of my over aggressive taper at the beginning combined with an opiate ct in the middle. I've made my life a living hell for 3 months now lol. 

 

You should start noticing windows. Keep track of how long it took to get there and how long your windows last. It helps establish the pattern of your body's healing rate and symptoms pattern and gives you a good idea of holding times. I plan on establishing my taper rate based on my healing rate. I'm guessing my cut rate will be 2% of the current month's dose every 6 days that way, the sxs won't get to far ahead of that way me and I can hold when needed. Hope you get there soon!

[[li...]]

So unbelievably encouraging!!  Your symptoms are so similar to mine though mine is mostly brain stuff--sedation, major fog, DR, disorientation, horrid memory, totally zoning out, but also fragile CNS symptoms. I hope I can share a successful hold story too. So grateful what you said about even in a hold its non-linear because a bad day does make you think you're doing it all wrong!

Thanks!!!  Remind me--you've held for a long hold before right?

Liza

[[Va...]]

So unbelievably encouraging!!  Your symptoms are so similar to mine though mine is mostly brain stuff--sedation, major fog, DR, disorientation, horrid memory, totally zoning out, but also fragile CNS symptoms. I hope I can share a successful hold story too. So grateful what you said about even in a hold its non-linear because a bad day does make you think you're doing it all wrong!

Thanks!!!  Remind me--you've held for a long hold before right?

Liza

My longest hold up to this point was 3 weeks, so not too long. I felt almost 100 % when I cut the last 1mg. In 4 days I got hit bad and then at 10 days I got hit worse. I think the lag time caught up with me or I had dropped below my therapeutic level and needed to slow down. All I know is it's working extremely well to hold at this point. Too many get anxiety about not continuing to cut (I'm one of them). I've just forced myself to hold. When we get in the mindset of having to keep cutting in spite of still having symptoms, we set ourselves up for worse symptoms. I have been damn near bed bound several times in the past few months. There is no way I'm going through this hell again if I can avoid it. I had to work through this and had I kept cutting, I would definitely be totally non functional. I've never read of anyone with complications from a long hold. Since our bodies crave homeostasis, it only makes sense that a hold will help return us to a stable state. I'm learning getting off the drug is not as important as how we get off.  After all the evidence I've read, those who keep their symptoms to a minimum and taper to 0, have a much more favorable recovery.

[[li...]]

I've been through two horrific Ashton tapers in 2010 and 2011. Never knew there was a way to NOT be in hell. Took me 3 1/2 years to be 85% healed. Time doesn't matter to me like quality of life. If there is a way to do this and earn an income and not feel psychotic, that's what I'm doing. So pissed I listened to the leader of a FB forum who told me last summer after five days of bad symptoms to updose. Now I've got more side effects and an additional .25 mg of klonopin to get rid of. Wish I would have been here.

Liza

[[Va...]]

I've been through two horrific Ashton tapers in 2010 and 2011. Never knew there was a way to NOT be in hell. Took me 3 1/2 years to be 85% healed. Time doesn't matter to me like quality of life. If there is a way to do this and earn an income and not feel psychotic, that's what I'm doing. So pissed I listened to the leader of a FB forum who told me last summer after five days of bad symptoms to updose. Now I've got more side effects and an additional .25 mg of klonopin to get rid of. Wish I would have been here.

Liza

I hear that. I had already cut way too fast before I got here. I did a ct of Xanax in 2002 and only had insomnia and mania for 4 months but still was able to work so I thought I could come off fast this time. Unfortunately Valium is a different animal and I ain't young anymore lol.

[[jr...]]

I am updosing to my last stable dose at .0875 and I am going to hold until I feel better. There is no reason to feel like crap and keep cutting. The doctors who put us on this stuff are fat and happy. Makes me boiling mad.

[[Va...]]

I am updosing to my last stable dose at .0875 and I am going to hold until I feel better. There is no reason to feel like crap and keep cutting. The doctors who put us on this stuff are fat and happy. Makes me boiling mad.

 

[[la...]]

so I am going into week 3 since last cut March 12. I am willing to hold for 2 more weeks but if I do not feel ANY better than I feel that I MUST cut.

 

I am tortured as soon as I wake in the morning with horrible anxiety...then the whacked/woozy/dizzy/ disoriented brain crap comes flooding in

 

I was told by neurologist that this is MAV (migraine associated vertigo) or silent Migraines..but who knows since I am in w/d also

 

if I could know for certain that a looooong hold would bring me back to normalcy but I am afraid of a hold that could ultimately lead me into a longer taper

 

I am sure I am much older than you all (57) and being this age and post menopause brings on its own host of problems

 

UGHHHHHH

 

Liz you said you are at 30 days?  any improvement at all?

[[jr...]]

I am 61 and feel that I wanted off this mess ASAP but now I dont care how long it takes, I am going to get stabile and LT down to zero.The last cut I made was after 2 months of feeling great. I just cut too much. I am going back to the last dose I felt good and hold as long as necessary.

[[Va...]]

so I am going into week 3 since last cut March 12. I am willing to hold for 2 more weeks but if I do not feel ANY better than I feel that I MUST cut.

 

I am tortured as soon as I wake in the morning with horrible anxiety...then the whacked/woozy/dizzy/ disoriented brain crap comes flooding in

 

I was told by neurologist that this is MAV (migraine associated vertigo) or silent Migraines..but who knows since I am in w/d also

 

if I could know for certain that a looooong hold would bring me back to normalcy but I am afraid of a hold that could ultimately lead me into a longer taper

 

I am sure I am much older than you all (57) and being this age and post menopause brings on its own host of problems

 

UGHHHHHH

 

Liz you said you are at 30 days?  any improvement at all?

 

Hey Lainey. I'm no expert, but since this is the long hold support group I can only give my opinion. I understand the anxiety of wanting to get off sooner and not extending the taper. The issue becomes a question of comfort and functionality. I could get off in another couple of months but then be incapacitated for months. I really think you'll see some improvement if you just hold for a couple more weeks and you may want to go longer. Once stable I'd also consider cutting 10% of your previous months dose for a couple of months and monitor symptoms. If you're good, you can cut faster. I truly believe it takes just as long by trying to power through the cuts. You end up with severe symptoms during your taper and then severe symptoms at the jump and for seceral months after, so time is irrelevant especially at our age (I'm in my 50s also). Time really is on our side. If you can live your life while tapering, what more could you ask for? Just food for thought. Good luck!  I really hope you get some big widows soon.

[[la...]]

Valley, thank you I do know all about this if you see my sig I have been at this for a long time

 

but long hold will be new to me...so heres to Gods will and power to get me stable

[[be...]]

Valley Um is giving good advice to buddies here, and I commend him for sticking with this Support Group and helping everyone. Thank You.

 

Lizagal, just brush yourself off from last summer and bad advice on FB, you are here now, and already I see you thinking things differently, hang in there

will it be over soon, probably  as Valium Um said you can be miserable and keep cutting and at the end still be so sick, I would just throw that

calendar out and just try to do the best you can, if you can distract with Mediation that will help, just refocus, and I promise you things will get better

but you are going to have to hold and honestly I would not start lowering the dose until you are stable, just saying.

 

Laineyk, you have been at this for a long time, and you say it will be new to you, yes it will but wouldn't be nice to feel better and then proceed, if you

are not feeling good why torture yourself, this Journey is going to take as long as it takes, but I would want to be able to function and enjoy as much

as I can.It is gradual but you will start feeling better.

 

Now that I chimed in will return it to Valley Um.

[[Va...]]

Valley Um is giving good advice to buddies here, and I commend him for sticking with this Support Group and helping everyone. Thank You.

 

Lizagal, just brush yourself off from last summer and bad advice on FB, you are here now, and already I see you thinking things differently, hang in there

will it be over soon, probably  as Valium Um said you can be miserable and keep cutting and at the end still be so sick, I would just throw that

calendar out and just try to do the best you can, if you can distract with Mediation that will help, just refocus, and I promise you things will get better

but you are going to have to hold and honestly I would not start lowering the dose until you are stable, just saying.

 

Laineyk, you have been at this for a long time, and you say it will be new to you, yes it will but wouldn't be nice to feel better and then proceed, if you

are not feeling good why torture yourself, this Journey is going to take as long as it takes, but I would want to be able to function and enjoy as much

as I can.It is gradual but you will start feeling better.

 

Now that I chimed in will return it to Valley Um.

Thanks begood! I appreciate it.

[[li...]]

I agree. I've been through hell which has made me want off this drug now. But if it's true that it's possible to stabilize and stay stable with a microtaper, I'm all for a long hold if it will get me there. Like Lainey, I've questioned everything because it seems too good to be true to be functional on these meds. Today was a 70-75% day for me in the afternoon and the last time that happened is when I was holding before I started my taper. No delusions it will be great from here cuz it's not linear but I take this as a good sign at day 30 on my hold

[[Va...]]

I agree. I've been through hell which has made me want off this drug now. But if it's true that it's possible to stabilize and stay stable with a microtaper, I'm all for a long hold if it will get me there. Like Lainey, I've questioned everything because it seems too good to be true to be functional on these meds. Today was a 70-75% day for me in the afternoon and the last time that happened is when I was holding before I started my taper. No delusions it will be great from here cuz it's not linear but I take this as a good sign at day 30 on my hold

[[Va...]]

As an update on long holding, I noticed my cog fog totally vanished in the early afternoon as has the blurry vision. I haven't been able to think this clearly or focus for a loooong time. I'll take it!

[[be...]]

                                                     

[[os...]]

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[[no...]]

Great quote here from Birdman another Buddy about long holds. 

 

 

It's kind of sad to hear people getting freaked out because they are holding.    People tapering do not have to be fearful of tolerance.  If your tapering your already healing and your way beyond the tolerance zone already.  Sometimes you just have to hold long enough to start feeling better.  Sometimes that can take many months.  This is not a race. 

Do not fear the benzo - Fear the Glutamate.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[sp...]]

Well, all of this is reassuring?!?!?! I suppose ?

I barely had any periods for my tapering, maybe one or two and now that I am down to the last milligram I have had two in the last week. That's normal for w/d?

The only thing that makes me feel better is that it explains why I was so furious the last few days! Boom, period in the afternoon and my mood began to chill. I just didn't expect it because having had it so recently.

Keep the faith--whatever yours is.

Alisia

 

[[Va...]]

Great quote here from Birdman another Buddy about long holds. 

 

 

It's kind of sad to hear people getting freaked out because they are holding.    People tapering do not have to be fearful of tolerance.  If your tapering your already healing and your way beyond the tolerance zone already.  Sometimes you just have to hold long enough to start feeling better.  Sometimes that can take many months.  This is not a race. 

Do not fear the benzo - Fear the Glutamate.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

I can't agree more!

[[...]]

Hi Buddies!

 

I have been meaning to write in this thread as I am considering a new hold in my K taper 

 

My last significant hold lasted 4 months last summer through to November after months of tapering from 4mg down to 2mg. I was so glad to get to this "half-way" milestone and be done with the hassle of having to cut & weigh my doses as I only needed to work with whole pills again. I had a great summer and felt symptom-free (still fatigued but that's the way I've been since I was put on meds, more or less  ) People were telling me they could see differences in my personality coming out 

 

I took a break from BBs, a break from the "identification" with benzo withdrawal. I know it did me A LOT of good.

 

After the summer, I knew I needed to resume my taper but kept putting it off LOL.

 

However, late in October, symptoms just re-appeared seemingly out of nowhere and I knew it was time to start cutting again. And it was, at least it alleviated my symptoms.

 

I was hoping to get down to 1 mg before holding but my fatigue seems to be ramping up just now, and it is the reason why I initially decided to get off K. So when I decide to hold I'll make sure to come post here - I am quite positive that I will be able to write about progress 

 

We all need a break every once in a while, our bodies go through tremendous amounts of stress and I do believe that holding is a form of self-care  An investment in being benzo free 

 

Best wishes!

Julz

 

 

[[Va...]]

Hi Buddies!

 

I have been meaning to write in this thread as I am considering a new hold in my K taper 

 

My last significant hold lasted 4 months last summer through to November after months of tapering from 4mg down to 2mg. I was so glad to get to this "half-way" milestone and be done with the hassle of having to cut & weigh my doses as I only needed to work with whole pills again. I had a great summer and felt symptom-free (still fatigued but that's the way I've been since I was put on meds, more or less  ) People were telling me they could see differences in my personality coming out 

 

I took a break from BBs, a break from the "identification" with benzo withdrawal. I know it did me A LOT of good.

 

After the summer, I knew I needed to resume my taper but kept putting it off LOL.

 

However, late in October, symptoms just re-appeared seemingly out of nowhere and I knew it was time to start cutting again. And it was, at least it alleviated my symptoms.

 

I was hoping to get down to 1 mg before holding but my fatigue seems to be ramping up just now, and it is the reason why I initially decided to get off K. So when I decide to hold I'll make sure to come post here - I am quite positive that I will be able to write about progress 

 

We all need a break every once in a while, our bodies go through tremendous amounts of stress and I do believe that holding is a form of self-care  An investment in being benzo free 

 

Best wishes!

Julz

 

Thanks Julz! What a great example of holding!  I really hope it gives those on K the confidence to hold. There are so many suffering right now and afraid to hold.

 

I'm having the same results that you had. The only difference being the fatigue for me has disappeared (thank goodness). Hope to read about your success soon!

[[li...]]

Thanks Julz--this is really helpful. I'm at 30 days and had a decent window yesterday afternoon so praying I can stabilize. Your experience is what my friend experienced--she stabilized at two months and didn't want to lose that feeling but after another two weeks Her sxs ramped up majorly. So instead of updosing as was suggested to her, she resumed her taper and within the week she was stable again. I'm glad resuming the taper eorked for you too. I'm so afraid I'm not going to know when to hold more, when I've been holding too long, etc. proves I'm not stable lol.

Thanks again!

Liza

[[li...]]

I'm so grateful to all of you. I have hope even though things are still bad. Love you all!

Liza