The Long Hold Support Group

[[ly...]]

 

 

Tapering Xanax here.

[[Ke...]]

So I have calmed down a bit now. Maybe can ride it out.

I talked to a pharmascist and he said that the adrenal support I started taking is bad because that just causes more anxiety.

I wonder whether I bring on my own anxiety.

I know I need a pill splitter or do the liquid taper so I have more control.

Thanks guys.

 

My understanding this is a group for all benzos not just Valium.

[[fr...]]

  Thanks Valley I sure hope you are right.  I am also tapering Valium.  I don't think it matters here though, its just a group for long holders to stabilize. 

[[Va...]]

So I have calmed down a bit now. Maybe can ride it out.

I talked to a pharmascist and he said that the adrenal support I started taking is bad because that just causes more anxiety.

I wonder whether I bring on my own anxiety.

I know I need a pill splitter or do the liquid taper so I have more control.

Thanks guys.

 

My understanding this is a group for all benzos not just Valium.

Hi Keeka. You don't need a pill splitter to do LT. You can liquify you whole dose and take out what you need each day. It's really easy once you get the hang of it and only have to do the calculation once. Crash, builder or SG could set you up in 5 minutes or less. --V

[[Va...]]

  Thanks Valley I sure hope you are right.  I am also tapering Valium.  I don't think it matters here though, its just a group for long holders to stabilize.

So true free. It would also be nice to put the urban legend of tolerance to bed and give hope to those who suffer because they continue to cut out of fear of the dreaded tolerance meme which is used as a means to keep people cutting when they should be holding. Once you start to taper, tolerance is no longer an issue. The issue is how much withdrawal your body can handle. IMO lag time gets confused with tolerance in almost every case. Ok, I'm done rambling lol. 

[[li...]]

Thanks for keeping us going Valley!!

 

By the way I am tapering klonopin. Have held 5 1/2 weeks. Some little changes and a couple hours of windows but far from stable. Just the hope of stabilization and the comments from many people about their hold experiences is keeping me holding. The whole point of doing this slowly is to be gentle on ourselves. If you had a concussion (which this feels like for me), you would rest and protect yourself until your brain healed. This is no different. Impatience only creates more stress. It is what it is. It sucks to accept but everyone is dealing with something. I have a friend whose 23 year old son woke up one day with a brain virus. They thought he would die. He has had EIGHT brain surgeries and they removed 70% of his brain and put in a titanium replacement. He is learning to walk, talk, eat again and his progress is amazing to watch over four months. Seeing him heal from an injury 100 times worse than mine gives me so much hope and motivation to do what I need to do--whether that's laying on the couch or challenging myself to walk or do some computer work when I can.

[[wa...]]

 

begood -- my poor dear!  how can u b responsible for bad medical guidance?  WBB

[[Ke...]]

Thanks... I do have a scale and I can't figure it out. I watched the video and I just don't have the patience. I know it's not rocket science but I just can't do it. I just get all stressed out.

Think I will try to ride out the next few days and then start holding again at 2.0 mgs but hopefully an accurate 2.0 mgs.

[[Va...]]

Thanks for keeping us going Valley!!

 

By the way I am tapering klonopin. Have held 5 1/2 weeks. Some little changes and a couple hours of windows but far from stable. Just the hope of stabilization and the comments from many people about their hold experiences is keeping me holding. The whole point of doing this slowly is to be gentle on ourselves. If you had a concussion (which this feels like for me), you would rest and protect yourself until your brain healed. This is no different. Impatience only creates more stress. It is what it is. It sucks to accept but everyone is dealing with something. I have a friend whose 23 year old son woke up one day with a brain virus. They thought he would die. He has had EIGHT brain surgeries and they removed 70% of his brain and put in a titanium replacement. He is learning to walk, talk, eat again and his progress is amazing to watch over four months. Seeing him heal from an injury 100 times worse than mine gives me so much hope and motivation to do what I need to do--whether that's laying on the couch or challenging myself to walk or do some computer work when I can.

It is so true. We do heal. I had a serious brain injury when I was hit by a truck at 7 years old. I wasn't supposed to live and they told my parents if I did, I would be impaired for life in a vegetative state. Well I proved them wrong (I think. The jury may still be out on that lol) and healed completely and have had a normal life. Our brains definitely have the ability to heal and set things right but they heal on their own timeline and not ours. That's the frustrating part of this process, but it could be worse if it was permanent. Thank goodness we know it's not. The trick is finding the rate of reducing which brings on the least sxs with holds as needed and edging off gently at the jump. I swear we could all write a how to book for doctors once we get through this! 

[[li...]]

Valley--quite a story!  You've lived through a miracle already!!  Awesome

[[bo...]]

Valley ... Really inspiring..

I so agree .. Our brains heal themselves at their own rate... Is just finding that right combination ...

When I look back my brain ( and body) were screaming at me some days to 'hold' but I didn't ( 'mother knows best ' !!) because I wanted to do what the 'book' said !

Well , not any more. My recent hold of 6-8 weeks was the best thing I ever did ... And now just going more gently .

[[Va...]]

Valley ... Really inspiring..

I so agree .. Our brains heal themselves at their own rate... Is just finding that right combination ...

When I look back my brain ( and body) were screaming at me some days to 'hold' but I didn't ( 'mother knows best ' !!) because I wanted to do what the 'book' said !

Well , not any more. My recent hold of 6-8 weeks was the best thing I ever did ... And now just going more gently .

[[li...]]

Very encouraging Bertie. Thanks for sharing

[[Va...]]

I may have posted this before but it is a good reminder of this process:

 

The first three things anyone needs to learn about tapering benzos:

 

1. Slow slow slow.

 

2. A sense of feeling panicked and like you need to rush and do something-something-anything-anything about your withdrawal symptoms is actually a classic symptom of withdrawal itself. It's very important to learn to resist that urge. The best thing you can do is usually nothing at all, just support your body's healing by good diet, gentle exercise, meditative breathing if possible, and a regular schedule of sleep/wake/eat etc.

 

3. There's a lag time with benzo tapers. You can make a cut and do okay, make another cut and do okay, and so on, and then all at once it will catch up with you cumulatively and you can really hit the wall. It's much better to start slow and small with small cuts and long breaks in between cuts, until you have a chance to see how the withdrawal symptoms come and go over time. It's typical with benzo tapers for there to be days when you feel great and you're sure you're all better, followed by worse days, back and forth. So see #1, don't push your luck. With practice and experience you'll learn the best pace for you. But it's a lot easier if you don't overdo it and crash--it can really set you back to do that.

 

Hang on everyone!  We'll all make it to the other side. 

[[li...]]

You rock!

[[St...]]

Thanks for that last post Valley, that was so helpful, you do rock, and so does everybody else on this thread....I love it!!!

 

[[Va...]]

Thanks for that last post Valley, that was so helpful, you do rock, and so does everybody else on this thread....I love it!!!

Thanks Stella and Liza and all who share their experiences and give their support to others on this thread!  I'm sure it helps many who may never post. 

[[an...]]

This is a great thread!! 

 

Slow is the key!!  I am doing a daily liquid taper, and I do hold when I need to.  My longest hold was over a month, and it helped.  Even as I get to the lower doses I still get slammed with symptoms after cutting for a couple of weeks.  This taper is much different from my first one which was a smooth ride all the way down.  I believe it is because I was not fully stabilized when I started this taper.  I certainly experience more symptoms.  When I do, I hold for as long as it takes until I feel better.

 

Yes, we will all get there given enough time.  I do believe with a slow taper one can taper all the way down without those post withdrawal symptoms.

 

Anne

[[Va...]]

This is a great thread!! 

 

Slow is the key!!  I am doing a daily liquid taper, and I do hold when I need to.  My longest hold was over a month, and it helped.  Even as I get to the lower doses I still get slammed with symptoms after cutting for a couple of weeks.  This taper is much different from my first one which was a smooth ride all the way down.  I believe it is because I was not fully stabilized when I started this taper.  I certainly experience more symptoms.  When I do, I hold for as long as it takes until I feel better.

 

Yes, we will all get there given enough time.  I do believe with a slow taper one can taper all the way down without those post withdrawal symptoms.

 

Anne

Thanks for posting your experience Anne!  We're glad you're here. 

[[ga...]]

This is a great thread!! 

 

Slow is the key!!  I am doing a daily liquid taper, and I do hold when I need to.  My longest hold was over a month, and it helped.  Even as I get to the lower doses I still get slammed with symptoms after cutting for a couple of weeks.  This taper is much different from my first one which was a smooth ride all the way down.  I believe it is because I was not fully stabilized when I started this taper.  I certainly experience more symptoms.  When I do, I hold for as long as it takes until I feel better.

 

Yes, we will all get there given enough time.  I do believe with a slow taper one can taper all the way down without those post withdrawal symptoms.

 

Anne

 

Hi, Anne. Good to see you.  Glad to have your wise words added to the thread. Helps me relax and be less impatient. 

[[St...]]

Welcome Anne   

[[bo...]]

I almost feel like I physically 'exhale' and relax when I come here ! I feel like I don't have to justify !

I hasten to add , not that anyone anywhere else 'makes'me feel like that , I do that all by myself ..

It just feels ok here. Lovely to see my buddies Anne and SB here too xxx

[[no...]]

Thanks for keeping us going Valley!!

 

By the way I am tapering klonopin. Have held 5 1/2 weeks. Some little changes and a couple hours of windows but far from stable. Just the hope of stabilization and the comments from many people about their hold experiences is keeping me holding. The whole point of doing this slowly is to be gentle on ourselves. If you had a concussion (which this feels like for me), you would rest and protect yourself until your brain healed. This is no different. Impatience only creates more stress. It is what it is. It sucks to accept but everyone is dealing with something. I have a friend whose 23 year old son woke up one day with a brain virus. They thought he would die. He has had EIGHT brain surgeries and they removed 70% of his brain and put in a titanium replacement. He is learning to walk, talk, eat again and his progress is amazing to watch over four months. Seeing him heal from an injury 100 times worse than mine gives me so much hope and motivation to do what I need to do--whether that's laying on the couch or challenging myself to walk or do some computer work when I can.

It is so true. We do heal. I had a serious brain injury when[b] I was hit by a truck at 7 years old.[/b] I wasn't supposed to live and they told my parents if I did, I would be impaired for life in a vegetative state. Well I proved them wrong (I think. The jury may still be out on that lol) and healed completely and have had a normal life. Our brains definitely have the ability to heal and set things right but they heal on their own timeline and not ours. That's the frustrating part of this process, but it could be worse if it was permanent. Thank goodness we know it's not. The trick is finding the rate of reducing which brings on the least sxs with holds as needed and edging off gently at the jump. I swear we could all write a how to book for doctors once we get through this! 

 

 

Hi V Ditto    except  was two years old, heres one part of many things I posted on another thread about things I've been through regarding the brain, I've wrote a a lot of other stuff but this is just the one post of many I put on the thread below to give hope to others on the thread that we will heal from a brain injury

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=148737.180

 

 

      Hi IBelieve  I've had over 35 yaer's of having God knows what antidepressants, SSRI's in massive doses, got pulled CT off many and while in hell withdrawal put on more poison and had the doses bumped up on others, suffered the ongoing consequences of being in protracted withdrawal, and more withdrawals from all different families of drugs. I was in a constant state and still suffering from the aftermath of never being out of withdrawal and side effects from other drugs all those year's, plus different benzos at high doses all that time. I was run over at the age of two had massive brain damage,in a comma and not expected to live, when I didn't die the brain docs told my parents it would be better if I died as I would be in a persistent vegetative state. 

 

        Had other head injuries, my brain last scans showed white patches across my brain, it looks as if bits of my brain are missing, does that bother me? No, after all the blows to the head plus all the chemical damage more than once, I survived it all,  I am above average intelligence, Aged 14 they wanted to send me to university. My parents refused as they were afraid I would be corrupted due to students reputation which is mostly true, I wouldn't let a 14 year old go either knowing what I know now. Serotonin, which SSRI's effect is also in the gut along with the Benzodiazepine receptors, and all across the body is receptors, neurons, cells etc all in communication with each, knock one out the body tries to compensate. 

 

        The brain is brilliant at self  and adapting its self to take over the job of any bits that aren't functioning properly as perfectly as of the damage never happened, people have had half the brain removed yet still function at a 100% capacity  after it heals. Our bodies and brain are amazing but complex and complex takes time to repair, but repair it does, whether we believe it doesn't matter, or feel negative about it it still continues to repair

 

        Right now is the worst I've ever been through and I've been through some unbelievable shit, but I know we will all get better and be alright eventually, the only thing we can't say is how long or how many symptoms  before we get there, but get there we will.   I was also kindled spent may year's tolerance withdrawal on top of being protracted from the other times but I still believe I  and everyone else will heal eventually. We all get to thinking we never will and worn out getting  much worse  before we get better but in spite of what we think our bodies know better

 

 

        Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

Then Ibelive replied stating that her little nephew had also been badly brain damaged survived healed and did great 

 

 

  Nova. Wow. Thanks for sharing that story. I'm sorry about all that's happened to you!! And for all that Polly drugging and WD you've been through!! Yet you're so positive. Thanks for the kick in the arse. Sometimes o need to hear things like this and also have some positive reinforcement as when I'm down I don't seem to have access to anything called positive!!

    You're right. It's amazing how the brain really is a miraculous organ! My nephew had an accident at age 5 and had his skull crushed. He too was in a coma and and we were told he'd be a vegetable for life. Within months he was well on his way to recovery. He is now 17 and a super smart and athletic kid with the biggest heart!! I recall even at his young age it toon quite a few years to iron out the damage that was caused!!

    I need to focus more on gratitude. This helps a lot!!

    Thanks again! Xxx

 

 

Then I replied telling of my serious intention of taking up athletics again ( I was an elite athlete) once this is all over no matter what age I am and I absolutely mean it

 

 

Hi  IBelieve  I was also a brilliant athlete, and was going to compete in 11 events in the Olympics but benzos ruined that as I was put on them as a teenager, and am now 56, but fear not, I will enter again when this is over,

 

Inspirational Athletes: 10 Master Athletes Older Than 50 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/inspirational-athletes-older-athletes_n_1710852.html

 

And I also plan to be 'the oldest swinger in town' I will be shaking my not so teenage booty at raves and across the dance floor, who cares about age? I'm just getting older not old, old is a state of mind, not a state of being, and kick ass has no age baby!!! :laugh:

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

If you carry on reading that thread some one bought up about a physical brain injury as opposed to a chemical one, I've answered that too

 

 

HI FG  Obviously its a lot more than* besides saying that our gaba/glutamate systems are out of whack*. Its ridiculous to believe it can be simplified that easily  ::)Iits way more than that our brains are just one bit of the machinery that operates our body all in synchronisation and the whole machine is now temporarily out of sync while its reparing   What I am sating is that no matter *how* the brain injuries  came about it will heal, just because its a *chemical* injury doesn't mean that the brain treats cause of the injury differently.

 

As I've stated before I was  brain injured in an accident and left with massive brain damage, my parents were told I was going to die that day I never. I spent 16 months in a coma while they told my parents its much kinder if I died, my brain was so badly damaged I would be in a persistent vegetative state. I  have spent many year's on benzos, and been CT'd off them many times by Doctors, and one time I was CT'd off Ativan 30 2MG Daily , thats +600mg of Valium/Diazepam daily. I was so ill it appeared I was damaged for life, but I recovered, it took at least 4 year's.

 

Little did I know for over 35 year's it was one family of drugs causing all my ''illnesses'' Benzodiazepines my brain scans show white patches across my brain in area's that they once believed to effect all sorts of movement, breathing, whatever. Ativan are now known to cause calcification of the brain

 

Symptoms

 

In cases where calcium has built up in the brain, people show various brain dysfunctions.

 

    Loss or partial loss of motor control.

    Involuntary movement, tremors, writhing.

    Stiffness or rigidity.

    Dementia, mental retardation.

    Mask like facial appearance.

    Vision problems.

    Seizures.

 

 

    Loss or partial loss of motor control.

    Involuntary movement, tremors, writhing.

    Stiffness or rigidity.

    Dementia, mental retardation.

    Mask like facial appearance.

    Vision problems.

    Seizures.

 

Had the then information been correct, all the above would have probably  happened according to ''the facts'', It did not, once I had a 'motor control problem'' I picked up a glass and was unable to put it down or move from where I was stood after that it never happened again. What I did have was mnid bending terror, agoraphobia, and psychosis, mind bending DPR, anxiety, but eventually got to a place were I could begin to fight and get myself well and make a full recovery over year's not months. But according to my brain scans this isn't possible? This is a really brief version of the many times my CNS got physically battered then 'Medically assaulted'' my medical records are so vast it looks like the hospital library compared to all the other patients.

 

At one time I had a group of specialist stood around my bed scratching their heads as yet again I was in hospital''dying'' as I have been quite a few times throughout my life, once again I did not. They said I was ''A Medical enigma''but they were very wrong, I'm your average everyday human.

 

The only 'Enigma'' is they know nothing of the human body, and I kept blowing year's of 'Medical fact'' out the window with each recovery, I am no more' ''special'' than the next person, peel off our skin we're identical except for a minor difference of reproduction organs between two sexes and others are living proof that the medical dogma is wrong.

 

Like my family and friends said ''why does everything beyond belief happen to you and no one else? It does, its just they haven't met these people I have, we really are amazing more than we will ever be able to comprehend on a human basis its way bigger than that. And even those of us that do understand it can't fully explain to those who don't or have the answers to every question we're asked. Even when we know them inside often it can't be put into to words but then again maybe its not meant to be  answered either, I understand that too.

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

I know its a lot to read BUT I'm hoping it helps takes some of  the fear away and shows how wonderful the body's healing process is I am hoping it gives hope where anyone feels hopeless right now

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

[[an...]]

This is a great thread!! 

 

Slow is the key!!  I am doing a daily liquid taper, and I do hold when I need to.  My longest hold was over a month, and it helped.  Even as I get to the lower doses I still get slammed with symptoms after cutting for a couple of weeks.  This taper is much different from my first one which was a smooth ride all the way down.  I believe it is because I was not fully stabilized when I started this taper.  I certainly experience more symptoms.  When I do, I hold for as long as it takes until I feel better.

 

Yes, we will all get there given enough time.  I do believe with a slow taper one can taper all the way down without those post withdrawal symptoms.

 

Anne

 

Hi, Anne. Good to see you.  Glad to have your wise words added to the thread. Helps me relax and be less impatient. 

 

Hi Gardner,

 

Thank you. So nice to see you!!  I hope that things are improving. It certainly has been a rough ride. I love this thread because it provides so much encouragement even when it seems that we will never feel better.  It is nice to see that others do support long holds and a slow turtle taper.  This makes so much sense to me. Even at such a low dosage, I do get symptomatic, and at the same time I just want to finish the taper.  This thread reminds me that there is no hurry and the goal is to be able to live life as we taper.

 

Warm thoughts and wishes to you Gardner.  You will get through this and so will the rest of us. It just doesn't seem that way at times.

 

((HUGS)) Anne xoxox 

[[an...]]

Welcome Anne   

 

Hi Stella 

 

I am glad that you are going to stick it out with the LT.  So nice to see you here!!

 

((HUGS)) Anne xoxox