Jordan Peterson's year of 'absolute hell': Professor forced to retreat....

[[Co...]]

I am listening to the interview.

 

It seems to me they are very ill informed. She said that the Drs in the western world didn't understand that her dad needed to be rid of the medication from his body faster than they were willing to do it. This is an idea that almost everyone on here who had to taper had to get the f over if they were going to survive this.

 

You're not trying to get the drug out of your body. You're down regulating. Why don't they know thus by now?

 

They said he was paradoxical, or they at least believed he was.

 

Yep. Exactly. Seems that many posting here are missing this point.

[[La...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

[[...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

 

I don’t understand the benzos for the auto immune reaction either... Maybe they were thinking of reasons to say he was on benzos in the first place and were afraid to say just plain old anxiety.

[[La...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

 

I don’t understand the benzos for the auto immune reaction either... Maybe they were thinking of reasons to say he was on benzos in the first place and were afraid to say just plain old anxiety.

 

That was my thought exactly! Again, I'd really like to hear from JP himself so that he can explain the reasoning behind the use of clonazepam. An auto-immune reaction to food sounds to me like an allergy. People take anti-histamines if they're having an allergic reaction to food. And then they do an elimination diet to get rid of the offending food....no?

[[dr...]]

I am listening to the interview.

 

It seems to me they are very ill informed. She said that the Drs in the western world didn't understand that her dad needed to be rid of the medication from his body faster than they were willing to do it. This is an idea that almost everyone on here who had to taper had to get the f over if they were going to survive this.

 

You're not trying to get the drug out of your body. You're down regulating. Why don't they know thus by now?

 

Well, if Peterson was suffering a paradoxical reaction, and the reaction was as severe as indicated, then, actually, a very accelerated (or cold turkey) withdrawal is probably appropriate - with applicable precautions of course. Though, this does not negate possible/probable problems of suffering from protracted withdrawal symptoms.

 

I saw it, but I didn't have confidence in their "diagnoses" because they seemed to be using terminology without a lot of accuracy about other things. I often felt "paradoxical" if you define it as "I have horrible anxiety under this med. It's ironic."

 

If their medical care has not been benzo wise then I would have to question their readings of things. If a "benzo unwise" Dr calls something "paradoxical" is he right?

 

If this was the case I still can't figure out why he slipped the western Drs and had to go east. I suppose it's possible that they didn't recognize paradox in him and the russian's did.

 

 

[[Fl...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

You can read until your eyes pop out of your head but you will never be able to assimilate information that goes 180 counter to everything you have been taught if you aren't ready to accept it.

 

[[Ca...]]

We are all trying to connect little half dots here, and I think most understand the information limitations that are present, and have been over the months... Personally, I think that any historical credibility issues of a presenting source or platform are rather secondary to the actual information made available for ones own critique in a singular piece, article, or interview...

From what I can see we are still firmly in speculation territory, though I will grant that the parameters are seemingly narrowing a bit...

 

Two things im hung up on are -paradoxical vs discontinuation and/or tolerance issues (predominantly re. the reported food reaction, but not limited to such..)

-secondly, the apparent short(ish) nature of what appears to be considered an “appropriate taper time” (that didnt work), leading on to the subsequent decisions perhaps based on the failure of such a taper...

-well, then there is the role of the SSRI or other meds that may or may not have contributed... -and the list goes on..

 

As mentioned, I think most of us know its early days in a rather speculative “game”, and politics or media agendas have little bearing on the actual dots we are trying to connect here...

 

Anyways, I highly doubt I will be forming any conclusions in the near future... Muddy is the water at this point...

-A very good WD distraction thread though, not to be insensitive  to the families situation... -More that here we all are living it too, each in our own ways...

I hope one day, when ready, they will join us, -either here on BB for support, or in the greater cause in a more informative role, and thus, I think we should exercise caution when expressing personal opinion of JPs broader career and his own “worldly” views...

 

***

Gawd you lot type fast.. -What he/she said..!! Lol

 

[[Zo...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

 

I don’t understand the benzos for the auto immune reaction either... Maybe they were thinking of reasons to say he was on benzos in the first place and were afraid to say just plain old anxiety.

 

That was my thought exactly! Again, I'd really like to hear from JP himself so that he can explain the reasoning behind the use of clonazepam. An auto-immune reaction to food sounds to me like an allergy. People take anti-histamines if they're having an allergic reaction to food. And then they do an elimination diet to get rid of the offending food....no?

 

Here he is in a 2018 interview talking about a time when he had a reaction to sulfite preservatives in cider. He says his reactions to food became more extreme when he would try to reintroduce foods after restricting his diet. He experienced a month long bout of severe anxiety and insomnia.

 

[[id...]]

I started out believing this story as it unfolded here at benzobuddies.  Had never heard of this guy or his daughter.  No reason to not believe them.  The more I read and hear about the story as it’s been evolving the more skeptical I’ve become about the truth of some aspects of the story.  As a result, the whole story is subject to skepticism. 

 

No disrespect to all here who are suffering, or others elsewhere as I once was and am still sorting out the damage caused by a lifetime of benzos, but this whole Peterson story is full of holes and questions that need answers.

 

Honestly, along with the questions I have about the story I’m also questioning some of the Peterson motives involved in the highly public nature of disclosing what they claim has happened. 

 

The suspect nature of the story makes it a bad example for all the benzo warriors who would like the story of our benzo experiences to become common knowledge.

 

I had the same impression. I am guessing they are making careful statements because they know everything they say will end up on the news, will be twisted and misinterpreted. Besides, they still need to maintain Mikhaila's diet business and JP's image. So they need to pretend things are better than they are or that they know more than they do. I got the impression that Mikhaila talks like she figured out benzos because "hundreds of people contacted" her but praising Russian doctors for "having the guts" to cold turkey JP off of Klonopin shows that she still has no clue.

[[id...]]

Blue Rose, was your friend in prison in Russia?

 

Yes, and he was imprisoned for his beliefs. His particular case occurred September 2019, and just this past week information has come out as to what happened to him while in prison. It sounds like he is suffering badly.

 

In the September 2019 article it indicates over 250 of my friends in Russia are facing criminal charges, with 41 in detention (pretrial or prison) and 23 under house arrest). It is horrible what has been/is happening in Russia.

 

As I said in my previous post…things can escalate rapidly. Jordan Peterson is hopefully aware of what is happening. Granted injustices can be found in many corners of the earth. But it is wise on our part to be alert to them.

 

And as we know, going through benzo w/d is trying enough in itself.

 

That's terrible. I am so sorry about your friends. Heartbreaking. Are your friends some kind of activists? I know that almost any kind of activism in Russia could get you in serious trouble.

 

JP doesn't have to worry about that too much, though, having the views that he has but I don't want to start a political conversation again.

 

I'm just wondering if Mikhaila's husband is Russian.

[[id...]]

confuseduser, you make some very good points!

 

Indeed, they may have tried to make the best decision given the circumstances, but I am afraid they made the worst decision they possibly could. The fact that no place in North America did not have ”the guts” to put him trough something like that should have been a red flag and a warning sign! I live in Eastern Europe and I am HIGLY suspicious of any ”Russian detox facility”. I know what is going on here. I was shocked to read what ideallifevision said, that they prescribe phenibut to babies, but it wouldn't be entirely inconceivable. 

 

That, and the other concerns regarding freedom of speech and personal freedom the others have raised. I hope, in the end, things will turn out well for him and his family, and I do pray for that. But for the moment, the situation seems disastrous.  :'(

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. I would not trust a "Russian style detox" any more than I would trust a North American detox facility. Especially if the Russian detox center agreed to stop Klonopin cold turkey thinking it's a good thing. They clearly don't know what they're doing.

 

And yes, I have friends who went to a pediatrician because they had a colicky baby and came out with a phenibut prescription. When I told my friends about the dangers of phenibut I was dismissed because "the doctor said phenibut is very safe."

[[co...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

Very sad, but not hard to understand.  Look at all of the misinformed psychologists and psychiatrists out there.  How many time have we heard accounts of someone who changes psychiatrists and the new doctor says that they don't prescribe benzos and expect the patient to stop it cold turkey, or in an unrealistically short period of time?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

I think the information they provided is fuzzy and unreliable.  I also think they have a tendency to view things in terms of food allergies and auto-immune issues given his daughter's history and her current diet advocacy.  This is a huge problem if it's not a diet or autoimmune issue and they treat it as one.

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

I'm not sure that the daughter knew.  She may have gotten bad information from the doctors or reached incorrect conclusions on her own.

 

I may have some experience with paradoxical reaction to Klonopin.  I was on .5 mg twice a day for two years.  Then suddenly I started to have heightened anxiety and anxiety attacks roughly 2 hours after taking my evening dose.  It seemed like it might be a paradoxical affect because it happened so soon after taking the med.  I would think that with interdose withdrawal it might have taken longer.  Or maybe for whatever reason the med stopped working for me.  I did a rapid switchover to 10 mg of valium twice a day, and the anxiety attacks disappeared immediately.  From there I began a taper.  After reading Peterson's story I realize how incredibly lucky I was to be familiar with the Ashton protocol by way of this messageboard.  Everyone is different, so I would don't know if what worked for me would work for anyone else.  But I was unbelievably fortunate that it worked for me because I could have been in a infinitely worse situation.

 

In looking at Jordan Peterson's situation I view it from the perspective of my own experience as well as many experiences of people I've read on this board and the online benzo information groups.  Jordan Peterson and his daughter did not have either, and seemed to get acquainted with some of it only after he was done with his hospitalization in Russia.

[[Co...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

 

Benzodiazepines are prescribed in the treatment of all kinds of stressful situations (I am not defending the use of benzodiazepines being as a panacea in the treatment 'stress'). I presume that his autoimmune reaction was serious and stressful. And, Peterson is not a medical doctor. Since many medical doctors are still rather ignorant of the very real potential for negative effects from benzodiazepines, there is no reason why Peterson would know. He was prescribed the medicine by the specialist (the medical doctor).

[[va...]]

On one of his youtube videos he says (Peterson), that with some of his patients he's spent two years of therapy basically trying to convince them to take an antidepressant, and that was the main topic  of discussion in his sessions with some patients according to him. So he seems to rely more on pills that skills, at least before his crash. I suppose he's probably changed his mind.

[[La...]]

On one of his youtube videos he says (Peterson), that with some of his patients he's spent two years of therapy basically trying to convince them to take an antidepressant, and that was the main topic  of discussion in his sessions with some patients according to him. So he seems to rely more on pills that skills, at least before his crash. I suppose he's probably changed his mind.

 

That's rather strange. He's not an MD. I would question the appropriateness of that. If you can find that Youtube video, can you please share it? I'd be interested to hear what he said.

 

If he were my psychologist and he was suggesting meds to me, I'd be out of there in a flash.

[[La...]]

I hope we'll hear from the man himself next time so that some of the questions can be answered in his own words, not his daughter's.

[[La...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

 

I don’t understand the benzos for the auto immune reaction either... Maybe they were thinking of reasons to say he was on benzos in the first place and were afraid to say just plain old anxiety.

 

That was my thought exactly! Again, I'd really like to hear from JP himself so that he can explain the reasoning behind the use of clonazepam. An auto-immune reaction to food sounds to me like an allergy. People take anti-histamines if they're having an allergic reaction to food. And then they do an elimination diet to get rid of the offending food....no?

 

Here he is in a 2018 interview talking about a time when he had a reaction to sulfite preservatives in cider. He says his reactions to food became more extreme when he would try to reintroduce foods after restricting his diet. He experienced a month long bout of severe anxiety and insomnia.

 

Thanks, ZooBeez. There's no way I could handle a three-hour video of this man (JP), so if you can give me a time frame in the link where he's talking about this subject, I'd really appreciate it.

[[Ms...]]

They don't teach psychologists this. They don't even teach psychiatrists this. I've not once before BIC met any psychiatrist (and I was looking) that had an inkling of the potential damage from benzodiazepines. The very few psychiatrist who get it either took a special interest in it, or know someone impacted by it, meaning it's not coming from their training. I have been active on Twitter lately (I don't recommend it) and I'm harassed by psychiatrists almost daily who think my message is one undermining their "authority" and making them look bad and I must have just had a bad doctor. One bad doctor does not create a movement for change or justify the numbers on BenzoBuddies and the Facebook groups. I would have spent anything I could come up with, and go anywhere, to get out of this mess. Jordan has the money to try more stuff. He can charter jets to Russia for experimental ideas, I cannot.

 

The Petersons are sharing BIC stuff now on their social media, and I am curious where they will land after this mess is over, or at least over enough for him to function online more and start speaking. Will they become a great ally to our community speaking truth? I am concerned about the CT approach he advocated, but I also understand if he at least believed he was paradoxical it makes good sense to try that approach. I wasn't there. I just hope they advocate slow tapers for most people.

 

Also, he could have stayed silent on this. He didn't. A lot of celebrities do, even relatively minor ones with not even a fraction of the reach he has. He does have my respect for speaking on it and from their first update in September I see the family progression of benzo knowledge. We all started somewhere. They, for whatever reason, did a lot of it publicly.

[[Zo...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

 

I don’t understand the benzos for the auto immune reaction either... Maybe they were thinking of reasons to say he was on benzos in the first place and were afraid to say just plain old anxiety.

 

That was my thought exactly! Again, I'd really like to hear from JP himself so that he can explain the reasoning behind the use of clonazepam. An auto-immune reaction to food sounds to me like an allergy. People take anti-histamines if they're having an allergic reaction to food. And then they do an elimination diet to get rid of the offending food....no?

 

Here he is in a 2018 interview talking about a time when he had a reaction to sulfite preservatives in cider. He says his reactions to food became more extreme when he would try to reintroduce foods after restricting his diet. He experienced a month long bout of severe anxiety and insomnia.

 

Thanks, ZooBeez. There's no way I could handle a three-hour video of this man (JP), so if you can give me a time frame in the link where he's talking about this subject, I'd really appreciate it.

 

The link that I posted is timestamped at 2:58:50. It should start playing at the point in the video where he talks about the reaction he had to apple cider.

 

He says this happened around the time he did a podcast with Sam Harris which was in Jan of 2017 - so, three years ago. His daughter said in her update video that JP was prescribed clonazepam after having an autoimmune reaction to food three years ago. This cider incident may have been what she was referring to (or maybe not, just speculating).

 

The experience he describes sounds pretty intense. Extreme anxiety and insomnia for a month could certainly lead someone to a benzo for relief.

[[va...]]

Lapis, here's the video where he talks about antidepressants.

 

[[La...]]

Lapis, here's the video where he talks about antidepressants.

 

 

Thank you. Just checked it out. Fascinating! It's interesting that he never mentions how thoroughly depressing the side effects of antidepressants can be.

[[La...]]

What I don't understand is why someone who does so much reading and studying in the field of psychology (he's a psychologist, after all) didn't do any reading at all on the type of psych meds he was prescribed. As a clinician, he probably came across patients taking these meds. Didn't he want to know how they worked and what the side effects might be?

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why he was prescribed clonazepam for a "autoimmune reaction to food" all those years ago. Was anxiety the reaction? Why didn't he consult a registered dietitian if it was a food-related issue?

 

And was he actually having a paradoxical reaction, or was he having a bad withdrawal effect? That wasn't clear either.

 

It's confusing. But at least the interview showed me how uninformed they were about things.

 

I don’t understand the benzos for the auto immune reaction either... Maybe they were thinking of reasons to say he was on benzos in the first place and were afraid to say just plain old anxiety.

 

That was my thought exactly! Again, I'd really like to hear from JP himself so that he can explain the reasoning behind the use of clonazepam. An auto-immune reaction to food sounds to me like an allergy. People take anti-histamines if they're having an allergic reaction to food. And then they do an elimination diet to get rid of the offending food....no?

 

Here he is in a 2018 interview talking about a time when he had a reaction to sulfite preservatives in cider. He says his reactions to food became more extreme when he would try to reintroduce foods after restricting his diet. He experienced a month long bout of severe anxiety and insomnia.

 

Thanks, ZooBeez. There's no way I could handle a three-hour video of this man (JP), so if you can give me a time frame in the link where he's talking about this subject, I'd really appreciate it.

 

The link that I posted is timestamped at 2:58:50. It should start playing at the point in the video where he talks about the reaction he had to apple cider.

 

He says this happened around the time he did a podcast with Sam Harris which was in Jan of 2017 - so, three years ago. His daughter said in her update video that JP was prescribed clonazepam after having an autoimmune reaction to food three years ago. This cider incident may have been what she was referring to (or maybe not, just speculating).

 

The experience he describes sounds pretty intense. Extreme anxiety and insomnia for a month could certainly lead someone to a benzo for relief.

 

Thanks, ZooBeez. I'll check it out. I'm curious to hear what he has to say on that. When someone uses the term "autoimmune", I think of autoimmune diseases (e.g. MS, rheumatoid arthritis, etc.). Does he have an autoimmune disease (which one?), or did he have an allergic type of reaction to food? I'll have to see if they clarify that.

[[id...]]

On one of his youtube videos he says (Peterson), that with some of his patients he's spent two years of therapy basically trying to convince them to take an antidepressant, and that was the main topic  of discussion in his sessions with some patients according to him. So he seems to rely more on pills that skills, at least before his crash. I suppose he's probably changed his mind.

 

I can totally see him do that based on the lectures I've seen. I also believe that Mikhaila being on all of those meds so young is a product of JP's convictions: when in doubt throw antidepressants at it.

[[La...]]

On one of his youtube videos he says (Peterson), that with some of his patients he's spent two years of therapy basically trying to convince them to take an antidepressant, and that was the main topic  of discussion in his sessions with some patients according to him. So he seems to rely more on pills that skills, at least before his crash. I suppose he's probably changed his mind.

 

I can totally see him do that based on the lectures I've seen. I also believe that Mikhaila being on all of those meds so young is a product of JP's convictions: when in doubt throw antidepressants at it.

 

Scary as hell. To talk about antidepressants like that without mentioning some of the very serious side effects is problematic. Maybe that part wasn't in the video, but I hope he qualifies what he has to say there by talking a bit about side effects and withdrawal effects. It won't be "Hooray!" (his word) at all for some people.

[[dr...]]

I just jumped from remeron last month. I have come to the concluson that all psych pharm activity, no matter the benefit, also removes stuff from your mind, and your life, that doesn't have names, and will disappear, and be very difficult to regain.  Things that you love and like and maybe need. To me this is a solemn reality that must be respected. I think jp is naive about this and it's surprising.

 

He is known for a certain kind of fragility of attitude, and if he was challenged on a matter of personal freedom he will fight to the death. Great. This is a much more sublte issue of personal freedom that I don't think will respond to that method.

 

IOW he should be more careful and serious about psych pharm meds.