Medication Induced Setback Support

[[Ne...]]

I'm entering my 15th month of my 5th setback.  For me, too, if the anhedonia would lift, it would give me hope to deal with all my other current symptoms. I have had absolutely no windows during this whole setback. It has been hell and acute and super, super slow healing to where I don't even feel like I have healed at all. My previous setback (that lasted almost 12 months), I had windows off and on the last 2-3 months of the setback. I have been in severe setbacks longer than I even took the medication prescribed for sleep.  June 1, 2015 was my last crumb...almost 7 years ago!!!!!

[[Th...]]

Neverme and waiting thank you for posting. I am so sorry you were also hit with this awful symptom. Even without windows how have you been with healing?

[[Th...]]

Nitkits I hope you heal again soon

[[Ni...]]

Nitkits I hope you heal again soon

Thanks I hope the same for you and everyone else here!

[[Tu...]]

Having a set back with amoxicillin. Anyone have this happen to them and how long did it last. Loosing hope today

Tulip 🌷

[[Ne...]]

Neverme and waiting thank you for posting. I am so sorry you were also hit with this awful symptom. Even without windows how have you been with healing?

 

Healing has been super, super slow.  So slow that it doesn't feel like I have healed at all.  But looking back at my notes, I know the severe intrusive thoughts have lifted.  I'm sleeping better.  Not as weak.  Depersonalization gone.  Seriously, if the anhedonia would lift, I could handle anything.

[[Th...]]

Neverme and waiting thank you for posting. I am so sorry you were also hit with this awful symptom. Even without windows how have you been with healing?

 

Healing has been super, super slow.  So slow that it doesn't feel like I have healed at all.  But looking back at my notes, I know the severe intrusive thoughts have lifted.  I'm sleeping better.  Not as weak.  Depersonalization gone.  Seriously, if the anhedonia would lift, I could handle anything.

Thank you Neverme I feel the same. Thank you for letting me know improvements can still take place. It is so good to hear.

[[as...]]

Please see my buddie blog for more information: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=266239.0

 

I think that Benzo withdrawal is a histamine problem. And this theory is supported by antibiotics causing setbacks.

 

I believe that antibiotics cause setbacks because they eliminate Bifidobacteria in the gut. Bifidobacteria help the body make the DAO enzyme. The DAO enzyme breaks down histamine. We have histamine overload in benzo withdrawal, because GABA is the brakes on histamine in the brain. When benzo withdrawal lowers GABA, histamine goes wild, and this taxes the DAO enzyme. If we don't have a healthy gut and good nutrition, our bodies can't keep up with the histamine overload caused by withdrawal. Once we recover, if Antibiotics wipe out the bacteria that help make DAO, histamine goes wild again, and your benzo symptoms return.

 

The good news is that there are supplements w the DAO enzyme. I have been taking 2 pills of 4.2mg, 10,000HDU, 2-3x per day, and it eliminated my withdrawal symptoms. Now, I am working on restarting and enhancing my body's production of the DAO enzyme.

 

Good luck! And let me know if you try it. --Quinn

[[Ka...]]

Please see my buddie blog for more information: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=266239.0

 

I think that Benzo withdrawal is a histamine problem. And this theory is supported by antibiotics causing setbacks.

 

I believe that antibiotics cause setbacks because they eliminate Bifidobacteria in the gut. Bifidobacteria help the body make the DAO enzyme. The DAO enzyme breaks down histamine. We have histamine overload in benzo withdrawal, because GABA is the brakes on histamine in the brain. When benzo withdrawal lowers GABA, histamine goes wild, and this taxes the DAO enzyme. If we don't have a healthy gut and good nutrition, our bodies can't keep up with the histamine overload caused by withdrawal. Once we recover, if Antibiotics wipe out the bacteria that help make DAO, histamine goes wild again, and your benzo symptoms return.

 

The good news is that there are supplements w the DAO enzyme. I have been taking 2 pills of 4.2mg, 10,000HDU, 2-3x per day, and it eliminated my withdrawal symptoms. Now, I am working on restarting and enhancing my body's production of the DAO enzyme.

 

Good luck! And let me know if you try it. --Quinn

This is so interesting, thank you for the information Quinn, can you recommend a certain brand of DAO enzymes?

[[Ka...]]

Thanks Quinn, great info, appreciate it!

[[Kl...]]

New studies show that about 95% of our GABA neurons are produced in our gut.  An AB can wipe out our entire gut biome in one fell swoop!!  I know for me reintroducing specific gut bacteria,  after any kind of AB,  that produce GABA has been  extremely important.  I have found specific bacteria that do this.  I have been on Life Extensions Mood Improve for a while and it has definitely helped.  I wish I had have know this earlier.  The specific bacteria are lactobacillus helviticus Rosell-52 ME and Bifidobacteriam longum Rosell-175 ME.  This is combined with saffron in a capsule. 

 

I agree with the histamine theory as well.  High histamine foods really ramp up the glutamate side of things in our brains and after an AB, we just don't have enough working GABA to offset the ramped up glutamate effect.  I also take TMG (trimethylglycine) because my homocysteine levels have been very high. 

 

I eat a lot of red meat and protein so i think I get ample amino acids; and, yes, they are very important to everyone's health.

 

Klonkar

[[as...]]

Klonkar:

 

Thanks for the tip on the Probiotics!! I have been looking for some good ones.

 

As a side note, I eat meat or eggs 3 meals per day, and when I got a nutrition evaluation done on bloodwork several months ago, I had no amino acids. The doctor said I looked like I was starving. If we don't have robust stomach acid and digestive enzymes, which many Americans do not, we can't get aminos out of the protein we eat. And what does our body need to make digestive enzymes? Aminos. I was stuck in a vicious circle that I could only get through by taking a free-form amino acid that is absorbed straight out of the stomach. 

[[ba...]]

New studies show that about 95% of our GABA neurons are produced in our gut.  An AB can wipe out our entire gut biome in one fell swoop!!  I know for me reintroducing specific gut bacteria,  after any kind of AB,  that produce GABA has been  extremely important.  I have found specific bacteria that do this.  I have been on Life Extensions Mood Improve for a while and it has definitely helped.  I wish I had have know this earlier.  The specific bacteria are lactobacillus helviticus Rosell-52 ME and Bifidobacteriam longum Rosell-175 ME.  This is combined with saffron in a capsule. 

 

I agree with the histamine theory as well.  High histamine foods really ramp up the glutamate side of things in our brains and after an AB, we just don't have enough working GABA to offset the ramped up glutamate effect.  I also take TMG (trimethylglycine) because my homocysteine levels have been very high. 

 

I eat a lot of red meat and protein so i think I get ample amino acids; and, yes, they are very important to everyone's health.

 

Klonkar

 

Be sure and drug check for interactions and antagonists. Saffron came up in every list I checked as a no no.  I am still on the xanax, and have to be very careful.

 

I found this:

Saffron Extract/Safranal

Saffron Extract has anticonvulsant properties. It has been shown to act as an agonist at GABA(A) receptors.

 

source:https://www.benzoinfo.com/medications-and-supplements/

[[Kl...]]

Saffron:  Yes, Saffron is a GABA agonist but this is such a small dab used as an emulsifier in the tablet, smaller than the amount of alcohol, which is also a GABA agonist,  I used to dissolve my clonazepam in my taper, I think the probiotics are very much worth it.

 

Thanks for the reminder!!

 

Klonkar

[[ba...]]

I am cautiously optimistic about this new information regarding histamine.

 

I will take on the role of Debbie downer. I do this in hopes of getting a balanced snapshot of what benefit, or not, these things create.

 

This is a study on probiotics. You wont like it. I took them for a long time after 2 different antibiotic sessions with different kinds of antibodies, and nothing changed.

 

Here is the study and data on probiotic supplements:

 

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/news/20180906/probiotics-dont-believe-the-hype#:~:text=They%20have%20been%20studied%20in,these%20conditions%2C%20the%20NCCIH%20says.

[[Kl...]]

Baddove:  the link you posted is seriously old.  Archived from Webmed from who knows how far back.  Second, most of us know you never take a probiotic with an antibiotic.  Of course the good bacteria would be expelled if taken at the same time as an antibiotic. 

 

Again, I believer wholeheartedly that after antibiotic use, we have to reestablish as much of our original biome as possible.

 

Just my thoughts,  Klonkar

[[ba...]]

Appreciate the input. That's why we are here, to learn. I took probiotics after the antibiotics, just to let you know. That's when I did my initial research, because they did not help.

 

Here are more articles regarding probiotics having limited value. I  am not telling anyone not to take them, and I am not saying they are harmful. I am pointing out that for many people, they do not help.  I want everyone to be as informed as possible before adding anything to our bodies. Worst case? They wont help. But they wont put you in a wave either. Best case? They help. I did not link it, but many studies suggest getting your probiotics as part of a whole food instead of as a supplement. Like getting vitamin K from a carrot instead of taking a supplement. They are integrated into the food and more likely to be absorbed. .

 

(From 2020) https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/health/probiotics-new-us-guidelines-wellness/index.html 

 

https://www.hyperbiotics.com/blogs/recent-articles/5-reasons-your-probiotics-arent-working

 

This one supports mixed results: https://www.popsci.com/science/do-probiotics-work/

 

This one says it's complicated: https://www.outsideonline.com/health/nutrition/do-you-need-probiotics-supplement-microbiome/

 

Remember, I am not here to refute any ones choices or benefits regarding probiotic supplements, just being cautious, playing the devils advocate.

 

For myself, I get my probiotics from yogurt, there is a good variety of whole flavors (the sugar added yogurt is in MY OPINION, a waste of time.).  Why is yogurt so good for pre and probiotics?  Because the cultures are live, mostly. That can not be said of supplements. I have 2 favorites: Red Mountain (as tart as a lemon and a bit runny) and Mountain high (Good flavor, more solid. It can be dolloped on other foods without running off.) These are all FDA approved, so you are getting what is advertised.

 

To get FDA approval, the probiotics have to be live, so they are definitely in there. They also work in concert with other organisms in the yogurt, leading to synergy in absorption and digestion of the product as a whole.  Keffir is also good as a taste alternative.

 

This is a good study on yogurt, if you follow it all the way down, it talks about other nutrients in the yogurt, and how those who are lactose intolerant can possibly take yogurt. It is very comprehensive.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/80/2/245/4690304

 

Supplements, including probiotics, are not FDA tested or standardized, so no guarantee you are getting what is advertised.

 

Therefore, it's a good idea to ensure your chosen product has been tested for purity and quality by a third party, such as the U.S. Pharmacopeia Convention (USP).

 

And, it takes time to rebuild the devastation caused by antibiotics. I am 3/4 weeks out from my last antibiotic, and it is still rough.

[[ba...]]

For a good LOL, and to lighten any tension:

[[as...]]

Baddove:

 

I actually agree with you on probiotics to a certain extent. Probiotics do not repopulate the gut with good bacteria. You have to take them indefinitely to receive benefit from them.

 

Repopulating good gut bacteria is a multi-pronged and difficult process. Many people now go and get fecal transplants because of how difficult it is to repopulate gut bacteria. Current recommendations are as follows: Stomach acid, of which most of us are deficient, digestive enzymes, and prebiotic fiber are paramount. Stomach acid because, when combined with sodium bicarbonate form the pancreas, it kills off yeast and other harmful microbes in the colon that crowd out beneficial bacteria. Digestive enzymes and prebiotic fiber, because this provides food for good gut bacteria. Amino acids like L-Glutamine seal the gut and help good bacteria thrive. Finally, and maybe most importantly, meditation and stress reduction help good bacteria thrive.

 

 

 

 

[[It...]]

Having a set back with amoxicillin. Anyone have this happen to them and how long did it last. Loosing hope today

Tulip 🌷

 

I'm so sorry you are experiencing an AB setback. I've had two myself, one mild and one severe. Mine were to different AB then what you took. What I can tell you is that after obsessive amounts of reading it seems that most setbacks are short lived, a few weeks to a few months. I'm 5 months out from my last one and still have symtpoms here and there but also have many symtpom free days. I was through the acute portion.of this setback within a month and even though I still had symtpoms after it was much more manageable. Hang in there, these are normally short lived for most and should pass quickly. Also, if you haven't heard of the Benzo free podcast give this episode on setbacks a listen, he gives lots of reassurance and hope.

 

 

https://easinganxiety.com/blog/surviving-setbacks-in-benzo-withdrawal-bfp090/

 

 

[[Tu...]]

Thank you for responding.  I see you also went through a AB setback. I’m happy you are getting better from it.

I too amoxicillin and ciprdex ear drops plus saracort drops for an nasty ear infection. The amoxicillin messed me up badly.

It’s been 3 weeks that I came of of amoxicillin and I’m struggling a lot to the point of reinstating. I’m trying not too. I’m 5 months of if lorazepam and symptoms were bad before but I was seeing small improvements

My body burns and I have severe iner restlessness every second day.

I need help badly. I’m trying to hang in there.

Tulip 🌷

 

[[Tu...]]

And yes I have listen to the podcast in set backs from D foster. Thank you

Tulip

[[It...]]

Thank you for responding.  I see you also went through a AB setback. I’m happy you are getting better from it.

I too amoxicillin and ciprdex ear drops plus saracort drops for an nasty ear infection. The amoxicillin messed me up badly.

It’s been 3 weeks that I came of of amoxicillin and I’m struggling a lot to the point of reinstating. I’m trying not too. I’m 5 months of if lorazepam and symptoms were bad before but I was seeing small improvements

My body burns and I have severe iner restlessness every second day.

I need help badly. I’m trying to hang in there.

Tulip 🌷

 

I'm so sorry you are struggling so badly. The first month of this setback my symptoms were wrose then they were when I was initially in acute but it did it easier!! And you should see Improvements too, try and hang on, especially if you've come this far. I hope you get even a small amount of relief soon.

[[Tu...]]

Hi ismytime :  I’m sorry that you had to go through this as well but you pulled through  and you overcame it  I am seeing small improvements but the symptoms are horrific at times.

I hope as time goes on my symptoms will lessen

Tulip

[[as...]]

KathyM:

 

There are 2 kinds of DAO enzyme supplement:

 

(1) DAO Only- on it's own, it is extracted from either pork kidney or plants. My preferred brand is Dr Ben Lynch/Seeking Health's "Histamine Block" because Dr Lynch has put his career behind researching and educating people on histamine intolerance. It has 4.2 mg (10,000 HDU) of DAO enzyme per capsule. I take 2 capsules, 2-3x per day. I take without food because I want it to get the histamine out of my brain before out of my food; some foods have high histamine in them. There are other brands of DAO only supplements, but most contain DAO that comes from the same distributor and manufacturer, Diem Direct LLC.

 

(2) DAO found in Beef Kidney Supplement or Beef Thymus Supplement- I have added this as well, because along with the DAO, it contains all the nutrition that the kidney/thymus need to make DAO, and I like to take whole food supplements when I can. I prefer the Ancestral Supplements brand, but there are lots of good ones. I take a few of these every time I eat for food histamine (because histamine is found in food) and for the nutrients.

 

Amino Acids Are Also Important

Amino Acids have also been a game changer in terms of anxiety and panic attacks in withdrawal. I take 6g (yes, that's grams not mgs) of free form essential and non-essential amino acids, with every amino acid present like it appears in food. When we take individual aminos, we can overdrive biological processes and cause depletion of nutrients we are not supplementing. Individual nutrients act like drugs; nutrients together as found in food enable natural healing. I use the "Amino NR" supplement by Pure Encapsulations. I take 9 capsules= 6g- first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. My holistic psychiatrist, who is helping me get off this junk, recommended Aminos to me. You just have to take enough of them.

 

The combination of the Amino Acids and the DAO enzyme have been a game changer for me. SO FAR...KNOCK ON WOOD. I went from 15mg to 9mg in 2 weeks. Prior to starting them, I was in full horrible drug withdrawal at 15mg. Now, I'm at 9mg and mostly symptom free.  But I plan to slow my roll/taper and try to fix my gut and nutrition, so my body can make DAO and neurotransmitters on its own before I even think of jumping.

 

Hope this helps -- Quinn 

 

 

If anyone decides to try the DAO enzyme/Aminos combination or just DAO enzyme, do you mind letting me know on my buddieblog (link in signature)? I am trying to compile info on it and how it effects people in one place. 

 

As always, I'm sorry for everyone's suffering and proud of the endurance I see on benzobuddies. Lord, hear our prayers. - Quinn