The Klonopin Klub#2

[[Fi...]]

Yes, its so hard to figure out what is causing what when we taper. I had to stay away from B vitamins and even Fish Oil when I was tapering because I got too hyper.

 

I've only just added back in some vitamin D with K-2.  As time goes by, I will add more things in that I may need.

 

I forgot, are you dy cutting or doing a liquid taper?

 

Yes, Kat's work helped my taper so much and I still work with her now that I'm off.

 

You've come a long way and I can tell you it will get better and better.

[Guest [Ro...]]

Yes I have been having broken sleep  all taper but it got  rougher lately, exactly like you describe. I also take mag. but it contenes b6  will change it.

I thought it was a conflict I had  but  it most be all of it together.

 

 

Bonty, we are at very similar levels of K and my sleep has been affected as well.  It's my worst symptom.  I wake up every 1.5-2 hours and often have trouble getting back to sleep.  I feel like by sleep switch is permanently broken  :'(  I'm planning to look into possible sleep aids and very open to suggestions. 

[[he...]]

Has anyone been able to shave Accord-brand tablets with any success? I started with a good scale and got hit with w/d sx on day two.

 

Final healing, were you shaving your tablets down or crushing them and encapsulating?

[[bo...]]

Yes, its so hard to figure out what is causing what when we taper. I had to stay away from B vitamins and even Fish Oil when I was tapering because I got too hyper.

 

I've only just added back in some vitamin D with K-2.  As time goes by, I will add more things in that I may need.

 

I forgot, are you dy cutting or doing a liquid taper?

 

Yes, Kat's work helped my taper so much and I still work with her now that I'm off.

 

You've come a long way and I can tell you it will get better and better.

 

I'm doing a liquid taper,  reduce every 2 weeks 3%  but just realized  its 6%  no wonder bc of the low dose, were you able to taper faster at the end?  yes  she helped me too. but still have core beliefs that are not balanced yet

[[Fi...]]

Has anyone been able to shave Accord-brand tablets with any success? I started with a good scale and got hit with w/d sx on day two.

 

Final healing, were you shaving your tablets down or crushing them and encapsulating?

 

I shaved the pills. Only 0.001 per shave every other day using the gram setting on the scale. My .5mg pill weighed 200 on the gram setting. So my very first cut was going from 200 to 199 on the scale. I worked my way down from there.

 

When the cuts hit, I would hold for 3-5 days. There were a couple of times I held may 6-7  days. As soon as the symptoms subsided, I started again.

[[Fi...]]

Yes, its so hard to figure out what is causing what when we taper. I had to stay away from B vitamins and even Fish Oil when I was tapering because I got too hyper.

 

I've only just added back in some vitamin D with K-2.  As time goes by, I will add more things in that I may need.

 

I forgot, are you dy cutting or doing a liquid taper?

 

Yes, Kat's work helped my taper so much and I still work with her now that I'm off.

 

You've come a long way and I can tell you it will get better and better.

 

I'm doing a liquid taper,  reduce every 2 weeks 3%  but just realized  its 6%  no wonder bc of the low dose, were you able to taper faster at the end?  yes  she helped me too. but still have core beliefs that are not balanced yet

 

Yes, I was able to taper faster at the end. For some people. Its the opposite.  For me it was because I felt mentally better once I got below 0.5mgs and then even better when I got to

0.25mgs.

[[bo...]]

Yes, its so hard to figure out what is causing what when we taper. I had to stay away from B vitamins and even Fish Oil when I was tapering because I got too hyper.

 

I've only just added back in some vitamin D with K-2.  As time goes by, I will add more things in that I may need.

 

I forgot, are you dy cutting or doing a liquid taper?

 

Yes, Kat's work helped my taper so much and I still work with her now that I'm off.

 

You've come a long way and I can tell you it will get better and better.

 

I'm doing a liquid taper,  reduce every 2 weeks 3%  but just realized  its 6%  no wonder bc of the low dose, were you able to taper faster at the end?  yes  she helped me too. but still have core beliefs that are not balanced yet

 

Yes, I was able to taper faster at the end. For some people. Its the opposite.  For me it was because I felt mentally better once I got below 0.5mgs and then even better when I got to

0.25mgs.

[/quote

I'm also mentally better, but still have sxs mostly vestibular ones, low  energy, insomnia

[[he...]]

Has anyone been able to shave Accord-brand tablets with any success? I started with a good scale and got hit with w/d sx on day two.

 

Final healing, were you shaving your tablets down or crushing them and encapsulating?

 

I shaved the pills. Only 0.001 per shave every other day using the gram setting on the scale. My .5mg pill weighed 200 on the gram setting. So my very first cut was going from 200 to 199 on the scale. I worked my way down from there.

 

When the cuts hit, I would hold for 3-5 days. There were a couple of times I held may 6-7  days. As soon as the symptoms subsided, I started again.

 

At some point did you have to start crushing the pills and using capsules? How were you able to shave down to nothing and still be sure you were getting any medicine? And did you ever have the Accord brand, or was it always Solco?

[[Fi...]]

Has anyone been able to shave Accord-brand tablets with any success? I started with a good scale and got hit with w/d sx on day two.

 

Final healing, were you shaving your tablets down or crushing them and encapsulating?

 

I shaved the pills. Only 0.001 per shave every other day using the gram setting on the scale. My .5mg pill weighed 200 on the gram setting. So my very first cut was going from 200 to 199 on the scale. I worked my way down from there.

 

When the cuts hit, I would hold for 3-5 days. There were a couple of times I held may 6-7  days. As soon as the symptoms subsided, I started again.

 

At some point did you have to start crushing the pills and using capsules? How were you able to shave down to nothing and still be sure you were getting any medicine? And did you ever have the Accord brand, or was it always Solco?

 

No, I never crushed the pills when I got lower. I just kept shaving till the pill didn't register on the scale anymore.

When I stepped off my final dose was equivalent to 0.25mgs of Valium, which is lower than what Professor Ashton recommends for stopping-she says 0.5mgs of Valium.

 

I I did not worry about missing or not getting all the medication as I got lower. I read an in depth post on the website Surviving Antidepressants about how medication is tightly binded in the pill manufacturing process in the US. I accepted that information and did not focus on medication distribution after that.

 

As far as brands, I only used the Solco brand and had my doctor specifically ask for that brand every time my prescription was filled. I did so because brands do vary in how they make their pills and that variance can be significant. So, it doesn't matter if the brand is Solco or Accord, you just need to stay with your brand. There is no brand that makes this process easier. Unfortunately, we are the ones that have to make the process as tolerable as possible. I believe we do that by a slow, steady body-based micro taper. We hold when the symptoms are too intense and then start tapering again when we can handle it.

 

Focusing intensely on different aspects of tapering is a symptom of withdrawal. I definitely had that experince and I know now that it was because of the medication. I would get fixated on switching my method of tapering when I ran into symptoms and would want to switch my method. I tried to switch a few times and it didn't work for me. I realized I was trying to control the anxiety and fear, caused by the med and withdrawal, by hyper-focusing on the method. I felt so helpless at times, so I would fixate on how I was tapering because maybe that would help me feel better. I have a lot of compassion for myself and all the things I tried because I was doing my best. I now know that sticking with the tapering plan I chose, as tedious as it was, was the only way off.

 

Things do get better.

 

[[he...]]

Has anyone been able to shave Accord-brand tablets with any success? I started with a good scale and got hit with w/d sx on day two.

 

Final healing, were you shaving your tablets down or crushing them and encapsulating?

 

I shaved the pills. Only 0.001 per shave every other day using the gram setting on the scale. My .5mg pill weighed 200 on the gram setting. So my very first cut was going from 200 to 199 on the scale. I worked my way down from there.

 

When the cuts hit, I would hold for 3-5 days. There were a couple of times I held may 6-7  days. As soon as the symptoms subsided, I started again.

 

At some point did you have to start crushing the pills and using capsules? How were you able to shave down to nothing and still be sure you were getting any medicine? And did you ever have the Accord brand, or was it always Solco?

 

No, I never crushed the pills when I got lower. I just kept shaving till the pill didn't register on the scale anymore.

When I stepped off my final dose was equivalent to 0.25mgs of Valium, which is lower than what Professor Ashton recommends for stopping-she says 0.5mgs of Valium.

 

I I did not worry about missing or not getting all the medication as I got lower. I read an in depth post on the website Surviving Antidepressants about how medication is tightly binded in the pill manufacturing process in the US. I accepted that information and did not focus on medication distribution after that.

 

As far as brands, I only used the Solco brand and had my doctor specifically ask for that brand every time my prescription was filled. I did so because brands do vary in how they make their pills and that variance can be significant. So, it doesn't matter if the brand is Solco or Accord, you just need to stay with your brand. There is no brand that makes this process easier. Unfortunately, we are the ones that have to make the process as tolerable as possible. I believe we do that by a slow, steady body-based micro taper. We hold when the symptoms are too intense and then start tapering again when we can handle it.

 

Focusing intensely on different aspects of tapering is a symptom of withdrawal. I definitely had that experince and I know now that it was because of the medication. I would get fixated on switching my method of tapering when I ran into symptoms and would want to switch my method. I tried to switch a few times and it didn't work for me. I realized I was trying to control the anxiety and fear, caused by the med and withdrawal, by hyper-focusing on the method. I felt so helpless at times, so I would fixate on how I was tapering because maybe that would help me feel better. I have a lot of compassion for myself and all the things I tried because I was doing my best. I now know that sticking with the tapering plan I chose, as tedious as it was, was the only way off.

 

Things do get better.

 

Thank you for the response, Final healing. I had hoped liquid would be easier, but it didn't work for me.

 

Is Solco made in the US? Accord is made in India. So what about those standards? Does it have to meet US standards to be distributed here?

[[Li...]]

Is Solco made in the US? Accord is made in India. So what about those standards? Does it have to meet US standards to be distributed here?

 

According to its website, Solco is headquartered in Somerset, New Jersey.  However, this does not mean its products are manufactured in the US. Per the May 2020 Forbes article cited below:

 

Over eighty percent of the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs), the basic building blocks of medicines, are manufactured in China. Furthermore, ninety percent of the generic drugs sold in the US are manufactured overseas, with forty percent coming from India alone. India, in turn, is largely dependent upon China for its APIs.

 

The Forbes article also (partially) addresses your question about standards ...

 

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has formalized strict regulations regarding the design, monitoring, control, and maintenance of drug manufacturing processes and facilities, as enumerated in the Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMP). If the pharmaceutical companies complied with the CGMP rigorous system of controls, then occurrences of contaminations, mix-ups, deviations, failures, and errors are expected to be minimized. Such compliance can ensure the identity, strength, quality, and purity of drug products.

 

FDA regulates and enforces compliance to the CGMP via surprise inspections and spot checks. In the US, the FDA investigators simply show up and stay as long as needed. These "unscheduled surprise inspections" are an important element towards ensuring drug quality and efficacy via CGMP compliance. FDA's operating charter to enforce the CGMP in foreign jurisdictions, where most generics are made, is an expensive and politically sensitive endeavor. To operate within budget, the FDA schedules overseas inspections less frequently. Additionally, to surmount the logistical issues, inspections are planned in advance. Lead times in prescheduling inspections can give nefarious manufacturers the necessary time to clean their facilities; get the paperwork in order; remove anomalies; and prepare the employees to be on their best behavior. Essentially, the critical component towards CGMP compliance, frequent "unscheduled surprise inspections" by the FDA, is missing in foreign jurisdictions.

 

I hope you won’t find the above information disconcerting. Unless you can afford brand Klonopin manufactured by Genentech/Roche, there’s not much you can do about it.  Final healing’s advice is sound — find a manufacturer that works for you and stay with it throughout your taper.

 

Citation:

Safeguarding And Streamlining Pharma Supply Chain: Time For Mandating Certified Drugs

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roomykhan/2020/05/07/safeguarding-and-streamlining-pharma-supply-chain-time-for-mandating-certified-drugs/

 

[[Ul...]]

Is Solco made in the US? Accord is made in India. So what about those standards? Does it have to meet US standards to be distributed here?

 

According to its website, Solco is headquartered in Somerset, New Jersey.  However, this does not mean its products are manufactured in the US. Per the May 2020 Forbes article cited below:

 

Over eighty percent of the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs), the basic building blocks of medicines, are manufactured in China. Furthermore, ninety percent of the generic drugs sold in the US are manufactured overseas, with forty percent coming from India alone. India, in turn, is largely dependent upon China for its APIs.

 

The Forbes article also (partially) addresses your question about standards ...

 

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has formalized strict regulations regarding the design, monitoring, control, and maintenance of drug manufacturing processes and facilities, as enumerated in the Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMP). If the pharmaceutical companies complied with the CGMP rigorous system of controls, then occurrences of contaminations, mix-ups, deviations, failures, and errors are expected to be minimized. Such compliance can ensure the identity, strength, quality, and purity of drug products.

 

FDA regulates and enforces compliance to the CGMP via surprise inspections and spot checks. In the US, the FDA investigators simply show up and stay as long as needed. These "unscheduled surprise inspections" are an important element towards ensuring drug quality and efficacy via CGMP compliance. FDA's operating charter to enforce the CGMP in foreign jurisdictions, where most generics are made, is an expensive and politically sensitive endeavor. To operate within budget, the FDA schedules overseas inspections less frequently. Additionally, to surmount the logistical issues, inspections are planned in advance. Lead times in prescheduling inspections can give nefarious manufacturers the necessary time to clean their facilities; get the paperwork in order; remove anomalies; and prepare the employees to be on their best behavior. Essentially, the critical component towards CGMP compliance, frequent "unscheduled surprise inspections" by the FDA, is missing in foreign jurisdictions.

 

I hope you won’t find the above information disconcerting. Unless you can afford brand Klonopin manufactured by Genentech/Roche, there’s not much you can do about it.  Final healing’s advice is sound — find a manufacturer that works for you and stay with it throughout your taper.

 

Citation:

Safeguarding And Streamlining Pharma Supply Chain: Time For Mandating Certified Drugs

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roomykhan/2020/05/07/safeguarding-and-streamlining-pharma-supply-chain-time-for-mandating-certified-drugs/

 

I agree...stick with the manufacturer, stick with the plan, then just roll with the bumps when they come along and stay busy doing other regular "life things".

[[se...]]

Hello. Hope all are doing as best as you can on this thread. This medicine is brutal. I am doing milk titration and I "think" I am at .068 mg.

 

Every day is a fight. I have held for two different weeks in the last month and not sure it did any good at all.

[[Ul...]]

Hello. Hope all are doing as best as you can on this thread. This medicine is brutal. I am doing milk titration and I "think" I am at .068 mg.

 

Every day is a fight. I have held for two different weeks in the last month and not sure it did any good at all.

 

If you're at .068, then congrats to you! That's awesome. It'll all be worth it and will be a distant memory before too long. I know...it took me just under 6 years to finish this stuff. The freedom is worth the journey though

[[se...]]

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.

[[Fi...]]

You can do it seekingtoheal. Like Jeff said, soon this will be behind you and you will be on the benzo free path.

 

It is a tough journey and you deserve acknowledgement for taking it on. We all do.

 

Final Healing

 

 

[[se...]]

Thanks. Trying to balance pushing forward and listening to my body.

[[kl...]]

needing some help. As you can see from my signature I haven't been on that fast of a taper. But man at .31mg I feel like it's wearing off faster and faster each day. I'm at the point of trying to go to sleep and getting jerked awake and flu like symptoms all day. Do I just hold at .31mg and this all stables back out again?

 

I've had times I had to hold but damn you get a hint of what is coming. Not this, this is like I'm talk half a dose.

[[Ul...]]

needing some help. As you can see from my signature I haven't been on that fast of a taper. But man at .31mg I feel like it's wearing off faster and faster each day. I'm at the point of trying to go to sleep and getting jerked awake and flu like symptoms all day. Do I just hold at .31mg and this all stables back out again?

 

I've had times I had to hold but damn you get a hint of what is coming. Not this, this is like I'm talk half a dose.

 

Nothing surprises me when it comes to tapering. Every single body out there is just SO different. I'd say to just listen to your body and see what resonates with you. If you feel you should hold, then do it and don't worry about the length of time you hold or what a calendar or friend says. I held like crazy off and on for my entire taper. I just did what seemed natural and then rolled with it all. Sure, there were days I felt like trash, but I just chalked it up to being a part of the entire process. Don't worry about time, speed, or percentages. Setup a plan that seems natural for the time being, rock on with it, then make changes/holds along the way as needed. As they say, "if you're in hell, keep going". This bad time will pass. And also, I strongly believe in the saying, "heal faster than you taper". It took me a long time to get through my taper due to various things, but I felt really good as I got close to the end and up to today. You'll get there!

[[kl...]]

Thanks, I just never had to hold longer than a week to get my sanity back.

Is there such a thing as holding too long? 

I can handle withdrawals as long as it's not the pressure/jerking not letting you sleep thing. 

[[Pa...]]

 

Is there such a thing as holding too long? 

 

 

This thread in Support Groups is for folks doing long holds, they may have some insight into your question. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=153201.0

[[go...]]

Hi everyone! I'm looking for some feedback on my taper. I was on 2 mg/day for 13 years. The last 3 I started to realize I couldn't be on K forever. Discontinuation of quality K generics, sensitivity to antibiotics, vertigo, warnings from my doctor that they couldn't prescribe forever, you know the drill...

 

I was part of the original K Klub but never had the courage to start. I've purchased a jeweler's scale, graduated cylinder and different sizes of ml syringes. Until now, the closest I got was liquifying a dose once or twice but I gave up and said it was too complicated.

 

I think everyone gets to a point where they want off. That's where I am now. After looking all over a major metropolitan city, I finally found a doctor who had read the Ashton Manual and was willing to go slow!

 

My first dilemma was whether or not I should crossover to Valium. As you know, Ashton even says some people on K do not take to a Valium crossover. And not all doctors agree with Ashton's equivalency chart. I'm well aware of kindling, so I needed a plan I could stick with.

 

I decided to go the ODT route to avoid as much confusion as possible. My goal here was to just start.

 

So on 11/24 I cut my morning dose by .0625 mg. Hooray, I finally started! I take a .5 mg tab, .25 mg tab (half a .5), 1 full .125 mg ODT and half a .125 mg ODT. Then it's just a full 1 mg tab at night. Today is Day 10 of my taper!

 

So far it has been filled with a lot of up's and down's. I have my good days but I also have days with brain fog, irritability and anxiety through the roof. Before my taper I was starting to have problems with monophobia and panic in the shower. I was thinking I would be able to cut another .0625 mg by Day 10 but my monophobia gave me a full blown panic attack yesterday, so I figured why rush it?

 

How does my direct taper sound?

 

Is it normal for a long-term user to struggle in the beginning or do you think it's my fear of tapering? I can't imagine what I'd be going through if I went with my old doctor's plan of just cutting by .25 mg until the dose was zero.

[[Fi...]]

Thanks, I just never had to hold longer than a week to get my sanity back.

Is there such a thing as holding too long? 

I can handle withdrawals as long as it's not the pressure/jerking not letting you sleep thing. 

 

During my taper off of benzos and other meds, there were certain times my brain hit what I call "uh, oh" points. These were the times where I felt my brain and body really noticed there was less medication being delivered.

 

This didn't mean that anything was seriously wrong, just that there was this recognition in my central nervous system, that something was different. I usually held a bit longer during those times and eventually it would pass.  When I say a bit longer, for me that meant 7-10 days rather than my usual 3. 

 

Though anxiety was not my main symptom during withdrawal, during those times I would feel it. I figured it was my sedated nervous system waking up after being so suppressed. Just my own theory. 

 

[[go...]]

Anyone still active in this group?

[[Fi...]]

Not consistently active like I heard the old Klonopin Klub was.

 

To answer your post, I was was terrified when I started.  I don't know if that contributed to my initial struggles in withdrawal because I also changed methods and rate of tapering.  Once I finally committed to a plan of action, which was a micro taper and rate of taper, things became more consistent.

 

I went to 3 doses a day and then made the choice to even out those doses.  So for awhile, I just concentrated on bringing down my night dose closer to the other two doses.  Sometimes I would hold on the night and do a few cuts on the daytime.  Eventually I got the doses even and would alternate cutting from one dose, and only one dose, when it was time to cut. 

 

So from what you have shared, your feelings and symptoms are "normal" (you know what I mean).