3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

[[ga...]]

Gard:  Your sleep did not collapse you had one night of no sleep which I am pretty sure you can attribute to your nervousness about finally being off of benzos for good!!!!  Don't think yourself into something that isn't there - those of us who have gone before you can tell you that this gets us all into trouble. Your s/x when you finally do your last jump will be no different than what you have experienced at the end of your taper.  You have not been on a therapeutic dose of the drug for months and months. Take it one day at a time and welcome to the world of no benzos where you will be very very soon. 

 

:smitten:

 

Thank you, Kgirl. I said "collapsed" because it is the same odd sleep disorder I had before I was on the benzo. It's nothing like the kind of trouble I have when I'm stressed and can't fall asleep. It's a kind of fear that happens when I am asleep that wakes me up. I can sleep for about 5 minutes and then the jolt of fear wakes me up, like my brain is afraid of sleep. After about an hour of being jolted awake over and over, I feel like I have to get up to get away from whatever the fear is. That's how I got the PTSD diagnosis and put on the benzo. I had been holding for a few days to see if I was ready to jump. Now I think I should hold longer. But you think I will get better after I jump?

[[Kg...]]

Gard: I don't know your history so as you know the right answer is do what your body is telling you to do.  I will say that 'jumping' after a slow taper like yours is just another cut. So ask yourself this question - given how you feel would you cut now or hold.  Then follow your own body/mind.  And again I think that when we get nervous or anxious the reason we were put on the drug in the first place comes back- kind of like the drugs last hurrah to us.  It is mental now for you - so take a deep breathe and you will be fine.  Time is the healer with benzos. 

 

CMZ- a therapeutic dose is one that is used by prescribers to address an issue that the medication is used for. At the doses we are on at the end of our tapers we are not using the drug to address a medical issue anymore - except of course as it relates to safely tapering off the drug. 

[[ga...]]

to all the dads out there

 

[[ga...]]

Another night of falling asleep and waking up over and over and getting no real sleep at all. This is exactly the sleep disorder a doctor tried to cure with a benzo. That was a short-term fix that created a long-term problem. I switched doctors. The new doctor was anti-benzo and determined to get me off. He added low-dose Seroquel at night so I could sleep while I tapered. But that was also only a temporary fix.

 

I have hit a wall. The Q no longer works. Perhaps it was the Q and the L together that were giving me sleep. Or perhaps I just tapered too fast. I don't know. And the doctor who started my taper has moved away. My primary has been prescribing. But he is not as familiar with the meds.

 

So now what? Here's where my notes come in handy. I am looking back at each cut and my symptoms at that time. I think I can stabilize at .7L (.28V) so I went back to .7L and am holding. I have used holds in the past to stabilize. They worked for me, so it's worth a try.

 

There seem to be two camps on what to do when you're at a very low dose. One, just jump when you get below Ashton's recommended .5V and hope for a soft landing. Two, taper to zero and walk off. I have awhile to think about it while I hold and try to stabilize. I can't jump from such a bad place. And I don't believe that jumping is going to cure my sleep disorder any more than jumping would cure someone's cancer or heart disease. It's a physiological problem caused by a combination of restless leg syndrome, menopause, and possibly old trauma. I still have all these things. Jumping is not going to make them go away. And it could make them much worse.

 

So I hold.

 

Gardie

[[ka...]]

Gardie -  you are approaching this very wisely. There is no harm in listening to your body and allowing it to dictate your next move. Taking a dose where you once stabilize and holding is just fine. It is tiny adjustment and really is not a set back at all, in my opinion. For this will allow you the opportunity to see know if it helped or not &  then you  can make the jump with this knowledge.  It removes that always wondering if you should have done......

Remember that healing is happening it is ongoing and will leave you that much a head of the game. 

 

To all of our fathers -

 

[[ga...]]

Thanks, kasey. I have been impatient, I will confess. I am an impatient and charge-at-problems kind of person by nature.

This whole benzo nightmare has taught me a lot about acceptance. I need to reconnect with that.

 

I think we are all familiar with the serenity prayer. It's first line seems to be written just for me.

 

 

http://rlv.zcache.com.au/serenity_prayer_pink_poppies_poster-rcc17153285f04b6481a6d2902fa4fddf_idk_8byvr_512.jpg

 

[[...]]

Gardie - sending you healing vibes!

 

Kasey - are you done?? Your sig says you're at zero?

[[ga...]]

Gardie - sending you healing vibes!

 

Kasey - are you done?? Your sig says you're at zero?

 

Thanks, lbr. I'm so very tired.

 

It looks like she's done!

[[ka...]]

Gardie - sending you healing vibes!

 

Kasey - are you done?? Your sig says you're at zero?

 

Thanks, lbr. I'm so very tired.

 

It looks like she's done!

 

Yes Ma'am, Gardie, thankyou for noticing......... last night as I started to get my crumb of a dose ready to take, I stopped and heard myself say.......... you are done, no more!  Mind you this decision was a labor of love and bathed in prayer. But it just hit me last night without question that this is the date I will remember for the rest of my life. Freedom date of 6/16/19, as you know dearest, I have been tapering for 7.5 years and every day  was difficult with symptoms, but onward we plowed. Using distractions that my over sensitive brain could handle and true grit, with the ongoing encouragement & reassurance from you dear people, I kept at it. 

I want to say to all of you who may read this, Please do not give up, keep the hope and persevere well. It is perfectly fine if you do not feel hope, just claim it. The feelings will follow as your injured brain continues to heal, it will come. It may seem to many that I  have lost 7+ years of my life, but I have gain so much more. I know I am entering the final phase of healing, so you guys are the only ones who will know of this humongous milestone accomplished. It may take months and months, but that is ok, it is par of the course and we will finish strong. 

 

Do not give up, it is one day, one moment, one second at a time and you too will taste the sweet victory of this benzo adventure.

[[ga...]]

 

FOR KASEY

[[...]]

YAY Kasey!!!!

 

Congratulations Warrior!!!  This has been a long time in the making and now you can....rest and heal!

[[ga...]]

How are you, libr?

Gardie

[[...]]

Hi Gardie- I’m doing alright. Crawling along. I’m at abt 0.75 mg L. Just keeping my taper rate the same and riding this train down to zero. I see no advantages in jumping any sooner than zero... I’ve never really considered it actually. Anyway, kinda groggy today. Still get bad neck/upper back tightness, tinnitus, sleep is up and down, cog fog is overall better but still get overstimulated and have to rest. I think intrusive thoughts and rumination is better than even a month ago. Random muscle twitches getting less often and less intense. Definitely more sun sensitivity than baseline. Happier - still processing what all happened these last 4 yrs. there are other sxs too.

 

But overall healing. I feel it! I see the light at the end of this long tunnel. So much better now than when I was at 3 or 2 or 1mg V equiv. I slowed my rate at 0.5 mg V equiv and that did help me for sure! Now I’m at 0.3 mg V equiv. Ready for a soft landing!

[[CM...]]

Hi Gardie- I’m doing alright. Crawling along. I’m at abt 0.75 mg L. Just keeping my taper rate the same and riding this train down to zero. I see no advantages in jumping any sooner than zero... I’ve never really considered it actually. Anyway, kinda groggy today. Still get bad neck/upper back tightness, tinnitus, sleep is up and down, cog fog is overall better but still get overstimulated and have to rest. I think intrusive thoughts and rumination is better than even a month ago. Random muscle twitches getting less often and less intense. Definitely more sun sensitivity than baseline. Happier - still processing what all happened these last 4 yrs. there are other sxs too.

 

But overall healing. I feel it! I see the light at the end of this long tunnel. So much better now than when I was at 3 or 2 or 1mg V equiv. I slowed my rate at 0.5 mg V equiv and that did help me for sure! Now I’m at 0.3 mg V equiv. Ready for a soft landing!

 

Hey Libr. Glad to hear you’re doing better.

At what dose of V equivalent did the fog improve at for you?

[[ga...]]

Hi Gardie- I’m doing alright. Crawling along. I’m at abt 0.75 mg L. Just keeping my taper rate the same and riding this train down to zero. I see no advantages in jumping any sooner than zero... I’ve never really considered it actually. Anyway, kinda groggy today. Still get bad neck/upper back tightness, tinnitus, sleep is up and down, cog fog is overall better but still get overstimulated and have to rest. I think intrusive thoughts and rumination is better than even a month ago. Random muscle twitches getting less often and less intense. Definitely more sun sensitivity than baseline. Happier - still processing what all happened these last 4 yrs. there are other sxs too.

 

But overall healing. I feel it! I see the light at the end of this long tunnel. So much better now than when I was at 3 or 2 or 1mg V equiv. I slowed my rate at 0.5 mg V equiv and that did help me for sure! Now I’m at 0.3 mg V equiv. Ready for a soft landing!

 

 

Oh, wow. .3V. You are in the home stretch! And it sounds like your symptoms are manageable. That's good news.

[[...]]

CMZ18 - I am not sure when the fog improved. I stopped keeping notes many months ago bc I hated looking at my list of sxs and rating them each day. The notes were to help me figure out what to do w/ my dose/taper- so once I settled into a steady taper rate, I eventually stopped the notes on sxs. I did keep a log of my daily dose. Anyway, the fog got better gradually. It’s still not gone but I think somewhere between 0.5 and 0.8 mg V equiv, it got a lot better. I’ve been able to manage my household much more these last few months and keep track of my kids’ lives and my own career. I’ve worked part time thru this whole thing. I hope the sharpness of my mind comes back fully!

Btw- for me, 0.5 mg V equiv was still definitely a therapeutic dose. I’m very sensitive to meds and a lightweight woman.

 

Gardie- I’m almost at your dose. I probably have the slowest taper rate in history- almost!

[[ga...]]

CMZ18 - I am not sure when the fog improved. I stopped keeping notes many months ago bc I hated looking at my list of sxs and rating them each day. The notes were to help me figure out what to do w/ my dose/taper- so once I settled into a steady taper rate, I eventually stopped the notes on sxs. I did keep a log of my daily dose. Anyway, the fog got better gradually. It’s still not gone but I think somewhere between 0.5 and 0.8 mg V equiv, it got a lot better. I’ve been able to manage my household much more these last few months and keep track of my kids’ lives and my own career. I’ve worked part time thru this whole thing. I hope the sharpness of my mind comes back fully!

Btw- for me, 0.5 mg V equiv was still definitely a therapeutic dose. I’m very sensitive to meds and a lightweight woman.

 

Gardie- I’m almost at your dose. I probably have the slowest taper rate in history- almost!

 

libr, are you DMT? I got really destabilized and had to updose a couple of days ago.

 

I never took detailed notes on my taper. I would write down if there was a significant change I wanted to note. I agree that writing too many details just puts too much focus on the taper.

 

 

[[...]]

Yep I started DMT on 8/9/17 (it’s on my sig 🙂) and still doing DMT. I haven’t held a single day in the past 1.5 yrs. I just found a very slow rate that works and I keep going every day. I weigh out a weeks worth of doses in 1 sitting.  I started DMT at 5.4 mg V equiv but should have done it sooner. I kept the same rate of 0.008 mg V/day until I got to 0.5 mg V equiv - then sxs got worse and I slowed to 0.0065mg V/day.

[[ga...]]

Yep I started DMT on 8/9/17 (it’s on my sig 🙂) and still doing DMT. I haven’t held a single day in the past 1.5 yrs. I just found a very slow rate that works and I keep going every day. I weigh out a weeks worth of doses in 1 sitting.  I started DMT at 5.4 mg V equiv but should have done it sooner. I kept the same rate of 0.008 mg V/day until I got to 0.5 mg V equiv - then sxs got worse and I slowed to 0.0065mg V/day.

 

That's great that you have found a pace that works so well for you. I'm sorry things got worse for you at .5V. I did well until .25V. It's great to be this low, though. I don't have the fear of being forced to jump from a high dose any more. I've been holding since my updose a few days ago. I'm starting to sleep better already, so that quick updose gave quick results. I hope I can start my taper again next week. We're nearing the finish line!

[[ka...]]

Libr and Gard,

You both are doing really well with your tapers, slow and steady and you will be done before ya know it. 

[[Ma...]]

Hi everyone!

I have posted to two groups with no response. Maybe someone has some feedback here. luckily this not not about me. My sister began mirtazapine two years ago 7.5. It’s the only drug she has ever taken. she’s 72 years old and lives alone. In January she decided to taper (too fast ) and ended the taper on March 6. On May 20 she was bolted awake by buzzing in her ears.It has been consistent and continual every night since that time and she has become nonfunctional sleeping 2 to 3 hours a night.  Always being woken by this ear buzzing . Do you all think this is tinnitus from discontinuation of mirtazapine. How can I help her?

[[ka...]]

Hi everyone!

I have posted to two groups with no response. Maybe someone has some feedback here. luckily this not not about me. My sister began mirtazapine two years ago 7.5. It’s the only drug she has ever taken. she’s 72 years old and lives alone. In January she decided to taper (too fast ) and ended the taper on March 6. On May 20 she was bolted awake by buzzing in her ears.It has been consistent and continual every night since that time and she has become nonfunctional sleeping 2 to 3 hours a night.  Always being woken by this ear buzzing . Do you all think this is tinnitus from discontinuation of mirtazapine. How can I help her?

Hey Mag,

 

So sorry to hear about your sisters horrible nights. I have read where others did a rapid taper and cruised along for a while thinking all was well. Then weeks to months later, were slammed with one or more symptoms.  I know there are others who can advise much better than I can.

So FWIW - unfortunately, those who experienced something very similar, tested it by adding back a lower dose of that medication to confirm if it settled the problem. They then resumed a much slower taper to help facilitate a better healing opportunity for the brain.  I am not in the medical field and am not telling anyone to take medications. Simply wanted to share what others have done successfully.

Lets see what others may say about this. 

[[Ma...]]

CONGRATULATIONS KASEY!!! I am soooo happy for you. Not on forum much. I will see if she is willing.

 

 

[[ka...]]

Thank you Hon!  please seek others opinions before making that suggestion to your sister. That is a huge decision for her to make and we can all appreciate what that means for her. 

[[ci...]]

Gardie - sending you healing vibes!

 

Kasey - are you done?? Your sig says you're at zero?

 

Congratulations Kasey!!!!!!

 

Gardie— hang in there.  Do what feels right to you.  You’re there whenever you are ready.

 

Libr— you sound really good!  You’ll be there soon.

 

I have now been off almost 3 weeks.  So far, mostly all the same as during the taper.  This week the sleep has been more of a challenge.  I am trying to keep a balance of being somewhat busy to distract myself and yet not get overstimulated with too much activity.  I am not taking any supplements.  So doing it all on my own.  Will keep checking in with you all.

 

Hugs,

Circlestar