3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

[[ga...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you will see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

edit: typos

 

Gardie you're so sweet, thank  you thank you thank you. Your input is very useful. Information is power. I really didn't know where to updose. I look at my journal and saw that my normal everyday anxiety which I always had, was probably getting worse under 1.40, at 1.20 and 1... so I thought to updose to 1.40. Maybe I should've gone higher but I prefer not to yet, because I want to at least try to keep some structure.

 

It's SO difficult to stand this without updosing because the fear that I'm going crazy, some suicidal thoughts (not that I'd act upon them but I'd never had them before), are really unbearable. Plus I hardly sleep. And work, and I'm in charge of a 13 year old on my own. So I mean the fear is incredible. The fear is kind of chemical. It's like a wild horse, you can't stop it. Really I don't know what to do. Better do nothing and wait but it's so hard.

 

Have you ever had this chemical fear and anxiety? By many posts I've read, some people haven't. I was having none of that up to 9 days ago. I'll wait another week to see if it subsides and then IDK, perhaps updose? Gardie you write very very well in spite of your lack of sleep so please don't worry about that. I hope you keep getting better and your taper is very successful and you end up getting tons of sleep very soon.

 

It sounds like you updosed to the right place and now just need to wait. Ask on Long Hold. People there will be able to point you to members who were helped and how long it took. I haven't been there in awhile, so I can't pull that out of my head right now. Maybe ask for someone to find and post "the propaganda" if no one has done it recently. They will know what you mean! And they will be in the same boat as you, waiting and finding the waiting so hard.

 

The chemical fear, everything you have mentioned, yes I have had it all. My attempted taper off of Xanax was a trip through hell. I don't post the details because I will trigger even myself.

 

I think there is/was a parenting support group on the forum, too. You might want to scroll through the support groups list and see what you can find. Sometimes an inactive group will become active again if someone bumps it.

 

I will caution you that it is against forum rules to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards. That is because it is triggering to people. And I just broke a rule by telling you that instead of clicking "report this post." So maybe we are both busted. I could say more about coping with SI, but it's not allowed to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards.

 

I will just say in very general terms, distancing can help deal with all kinds of negative, alarming thoughts.

 

"I just noticed that I had the thought that...and it's just a thought." Another good one is, "Thoughts are not facts." I use this for all kinds of negative thinking. I don't try to talk myself out of it. I just remind myself that thoughts are just thoughts, not facts, and then I change the channel (use my distractions list).

Best to let this topic drop now so I don't have to report myself.

 

Mods, I am really sorry if I am out of line here. You know I appreciate you! I will shut up now.

Gardie

[[va...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you will see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

edit: typos

 

Gardie you're so sweet, thank  you thank you thank you. Your input is very useful. Information is power. I really didn't know where to updose. I look at my journal and saw that my normal everyday anxiety which I always had, was probably getting worse under 1.40, at 1.20 and 1... so I thought to updose to 1.40. Maybe I should've gone higher but I prefer not to yet, because I want to at least try to keep some structure.

 

It's SO difficult to stand this without updosing because the fear that I'm going crazy, some suicidal thoughts (not that I'd act upon them but I'd never had them before), are really unbearable. Plus I hardly sleep. And work, and I'm in charge of a 13 year old on my own. So I mean the fear is incredible. The fear is kind of chemical. It's like a wild horse, you can't stop it. Really I don't know what to do. Better do nothing and wait but it's so hard.

 

Have you ever had this chemical fear and anxiety? By many posts I've read, some people haven't. I was having none of that up to 9 days ago. I'll wait another week to see if it subsides and then IDK, perhaps updose? Gardie you write very very well in spite of your lack of sleep so please don't worry about that. I hope you keep getting better and your taper is very successful and you end up getting tons of sleep very soon.

 

It sounds like you updosed to the right place and now just need to wait. Ask on Long Hold. People there will be able to point you to members who were helped and how long it took. I haven't been there in awhile, so I can't pull that out of my head right now. Maybe ask for someone to find and post "the propaganda" if no one has done it recently. They will know what you mean! And they will be in the same boat as you, waiting and finding the waiting so hard.

 

The chemical fear, everything you have mentioned, yes I have had it all. My attempted taper off of Xanax was a trip through hell. I don't post the details because I will trigger even myself.

 

I think there is/was a parenting support group on the forum, too. You might want to scroll through the support groups list and see what you can find. Sometimes an inactive group will become active again if someone bumps it.

 

I will caution you that it is against forum rules to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards. That is because it is triggering to people. And I just broke a rule by telling you that instead of clicking "report this post." So maybe we are both busted. I could say more about coping with SI, but it's not allowed to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards.

 

I will just say in very general terms, distancing can help deal with all kinds of negative, alarming thoughts.

 

"I just noticed that I had the thought that...and it's just a thought." Another good one is, "Thoughts are not facts." I use this for all kinds of negative thinking. I don't try to talk myself out of it. I just remind myself that thoughts are just thoughts, not facts, and then I change the channel (use my distractions list).

Best to let this topic drop now so I don't have to report myself.

 

Mods, I am really sorry if I am out of line here. You know I appreciate you! I will shut up now.

Gardie

 

Thank you Gardie. Don't worry, lesson learned. I'm already in the long hold group but it seems they've been friends for so long that it's more a conversation between them, which is fine, but I don't find my place there. Still, I follow them, for the info. I'll check out the parents group. I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE'S NO INSOMNIA GROUP!!! I just lay on the couch with magazines, comics, kindle, phone, TV low volume... Don't even try to sleep or I stress even more. I'm getting very little but that's not as bad as the terrors. Ok I'm putting down the phone because it's 1:30 am and I'll start doing the stuff I do to prepare myself to sleep 

 

Take care Gardie.

[[Ma...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you will see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

edit: typos

 

Gardie you're so sweet, thank  you thank you thank you. Your input is very useful. Information is power. I really didn't know where to updose. I look at my journal and saw that my normal everyday anxiety which I always had, was probably getting worse under 1.40, at 1.20 and 1... so I thought to updose to 1.40. Maybe I should've gone higher but I prefer not to yet, because I want to at least try to keep some structure.

 

It's SO difficult to stand this without updosing because the fear that I'm going crazy, some suicidal thoughts (not that I'd act upon them but I'd never had them before), are really unbearable. Plus I hardly sleep. And work, and I'm in charge of a 13 year old on my own. So I mean the fear is incredible. The fear is kind of chemical. It's like a wild horse, you can't stop it. Really I don't know what to do. Better do nothing and wait but it's so hard.

 

Have you ever had this chemical fear and anxiety? By many posts I've read, some people haven't. I was having none of that up to 9 days ago. I'll wait another week to see if it subsides and then IDK, perhaps updose? Gardie you write very very well in spite of your lack of sleep so please don't worry about that. I hope you keep getting better and your taper is very successful and you end up getting tons of sleep very soon.

 

It sounds like you updosed to the right place and now just need to wait. Ask on Long Hold. People there will be able to point you to members who were helped and how long it took. I haven't been there in awhile, so I can't pull that out of my head right now. Maybe ask for someone to find and post "the propaganda" if no one has done it recently. They will know what you mean! And they will be in the same boat as you, waiting and finding the waiting so hard.

 

The chemical fear, everything you have mentioned, yes I have had it all. My attempted taper off of Xanax was a trip through hell. I don't post the details because I will trigger even myself.

 

I think there is/was a parenting support group on the forum, too. You might want to scroll through the support groups list and see what you can find. Sometimes an inactive group will become active again if someone bumps it.

 

I will caution you that it is against forum rules to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards. That is because it is triggering to people. And I just broke a rule by telling you that instead of clicking "report this post." So maybe we are both busted. I could say more about coping with SI, but it's not allowed to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards.

 

I will just say in very general terms, distancing can help deal with all kinds of negative, alarming thoughts.

 

"I just noticed that I had the thought that...and it's just a thought." Another good one is, "Thoughts are not facts." I use this for all kinds of negative thinking. I don't try to talk myself out of it. I just remind myself that thoughts are just thoughts, not facts, and then I change the channel (use my distractions list).

Best to let this topic drop now so I don't have to report myself.

 

Mods, I am really sorry if I am out of line here. You know I appreciate you! I will shut up now.

Gardie

 

Thank you Gardie. Don't worry, lesson learned. I'm already in the long hold group but it seems they've been friends for so long that it's more a conversation between them, which is fine, but I don't find my place there. Still, I follow them, for the info. I'll check out the parents group. I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE'S NO INSOMNIA GROUP!!! I just lay on the couch with magazines, comics, kindle, phone, TV low volume... Don't even try to sleep or I stress even more. I'm getting very little but that's not as bad as the terrors. Ok I'm putting down the phone because it's 1:30 am and I'll start doing the stuff I do to prepare myself to sleep 

 

Take care Gardie.

 

VNM, there is an Insomnia Group, just scroll down the Homepage page and you will see it.

You are more than welcome to join the Long Hold Support Group, we can talk a lot, but we will always stop to include you.  We have a few new people now.  I will leave that up to you. Mary 💜

[[ga...]]

 

 

Thank you Gardie. Don't worry, lesson learned. I'm already in the long hold group but it seems they've been friends for so long that it's more a conversation between them, which is fine, but I don't find my place there. Still, I follow them, for the info. I'll check out the parents group. I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE'S NO INSOMNIA GROUP!!! I just lay on the couch with magazines, comics, kindle, phone, TV low volume... Don't even try to sleep or I stress even more. I'm getting very little but that's not as bad as the terrors. Ok I'm putting down the phone because it's 1:30 am and I'll start doing the stuff I do to prepare myself to sleep 

 

Take care Gardie.

 

Yes, they do like to gab over there! It's l-o-n-g hold so they are there for a long time, and naturally they start to gab.

[[ga...]]

 

VNM, there is an Insomnia Group, just scroll down the Homepage page and you will see it.

You are more than welcome to join the Long Hold Support Group, we can talk a lot, but we will always stop to include you.  We have a few new people now.  I will leave that up to you. Mary 💜

 

Mary, Does Long Hold need to re-post Valley's propaganda?

[[Ca...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

[[va...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you will see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

edit: typos

 

Gardie you're so sweet, thank  you thank you thank you. Your input is very useful. Information is power. I really didn't know where to updose. I look at my journal and saw that my normal everyday anxiety which I always had, was probably getting worse under 1.40, at 1.20 and 1... so I thought to updose to 1.40. Maybe I should've gone higher but I prefer not to yet, because I want to at least try to keep some structure.

 

It's SO difficult to stand this without updosing because the fear that I'm going crazy, some suicidal thoughts (not that I'd act upon them but I'd never had them before), are really unbearable. Plus I hardly sleep. And work, and I'm in charge of a 13 year old on my own. So I mean the fear is incredible. The fear is kind of chemical. It's like a wild horse, you can't stop it. Really I don't know what to do. Better do nothing and wait but it's so hard.

 

Have you ever had this chemical fear and anxiety? By many posts I've read, some people haven't. I was having none of that up to 9 days ago. I'll wait another week to see if it subsides and then IDK, perhaps updose? Gardie you write very very well in spite of your lack of sleep so please don't worry about that. I hope you keep getting better and your taper is very successful and you end up getting tons of sleep very soon.

 

It sounds like you updosed to the right place and now just need to wait. Ask on Long Hold. People there will be able to point you to members who were helped and how long it took. I haven't been there in awhile, so I can't pull that out of my head right now. Maybe ask for someone to find and post "the propaganda" if no one has done it recently. They will know what you mean! And they will be in the same boat as you, waiting and finding the waiting so hard.

 

The chemical fear, everything you have mentioned, yes I have had it all. My attempted taper off of Xanax was a trip through hell. I don't post the details because I will trigger even myself.

 

I think there is/was a parenting support group on the forum, too. You might want to scroll through the support groups list and see what you can find. Sometimes an inactive group will become active again if someone bumps it.

 

I will caution you that it is against forum rules to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards. That is because it is triggering to people. And I just broke a rule by telling you that instead of clicking "report this post." So maybe we are both busted. I could say more about coping with SI, but it's not allowed to discuss suicidal ideation on the boards.

 

I will just say in very general terms, distancing can help deal with all kinds of negative, alarming thoughts.

 

"I just noticed that I had the thought that...and it's just a thought." Another good one is, "Thoughts are not facts." I use this for all kinds of negative thinking. I don't try to talk myself out of it. I just remind myself that thoughts are just thoughts, not facts, and then I change the channel (use my distractions list).

Best to let this topic drop now so I don't have to report myself.

 

Mods, I am really sorry if I am out of line here. You know I appreciate you! I will shut up now.

Gardie

 

Thank you Gardie. Don't worry, lesson learned. I'm already in the long hold group but it seems they've been friends for so long that it's more a conversation between them, which is fine, but I don't find my place there. Still, I follow them, for the info. I'll check out the parents group. I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE'S NO INSOMNIA GROUP!!! I just lay on the couch with magazines, comics, kindle, phone, TV low volume... Don't even try to sleep or I stress even more. I'm getting very little but that's not as bad as the terrors. Ok I'm putting down the phone because it's 1:30 am and I'll start doing the stuff I do to prepare myself to sleep 

 

Take care Gardie.

 

VNM, there is an Insomnia Group, just scroll down the Homepage page and you will see it.

You are more than welcome to join the Long Hold Support Group, we can talk a lot, but we will always stop to include you.  We have a few new people now.  I will leave that up to you. Mary 💜

 

Thank you Mary, yes, I'm following the long hold group in case there's something I can learn there. I did post something a few days ago I think.  I'll look for that insomnia group, I didn't find it because I think I'm still to learn how to move in this forum. Thanks for your help.

[[va...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi Cantfly, thanks for the encouragement! I read your signature and I'm a bit confused. Are you still on benzos? I can't figure out if you finished tapering those but still on other meds?

[[Ca...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi Cantfly, thanks for the encouragement! I read your signature and I'm a bit confused. Are you still on benzos? I can't figure out if you finished tapering those but still on other meds?

Im nearly a year benzo free... Then I finished tapering the lyrica, and Im now suffering a horrid opiate cross over that I did in preperation for tapering that... -Incidently from a tolerant position...

Hope that helps..  There is a bit more detail at the start of my blog, -link in sig.. (if you get bored)

 

[[va...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi Cantfly, thanks for the encouragement! I read your signature and I'm a bit confused. Are you still on benzos? I can't figure out if you finished tapering those but still on other meds?

Im nearly a year benzo free... Then I finished tapering the lyrica, and Im now suffering a horrid opiate cross over that I did in preperation for tapering that... -Incidently from a tolerant position...

Hope that helps..  There is a bit more detail at the start of my blog, -link in sig.. (if you get bored)

 

Cantfly, glad you got off the benzos. The psychiatrist wanted to put me on lyrica when I told her about the horrible withdrawals I was suffering from my last valium cut. I got out of her office and googled "lyrica withdrawal", and I threw away her prescription. She said if I took the lyrica I could quit the valium in no time, and then the lyrica would be easy to come off of. Do you agree with her or was she lying like they often do? Hope you can beat the opiates, I'm sure you will like you've done with the other two.

[[ga...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi, Cant. It's so good to see you.

[[va...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi, Cant. It's so good to see you.

 

Gardener I  searched for the "propaganda" post in the Long Hold Group, I printed it and I just finished reading it. Thank you so much, it clarified many things for me. It gave me a different view on tapering, withdrawal, tolerance,holding. I think I was going this fast because of the fear of tolerance after many people warn us against the risk of tolerance if you don't keep pushing. I've read this woman's propaganda post and she's totally convinced me. I feel much less worried now that I know that one can hold for a long time and it won't create tolerance nor will it be detrimental in any way but just the opposite. I'll hold for the rest of the summer and then reassess if I'm ready to resume my taper. She says that after one of these crises, you want to hold for a while to let the brain heal from this shock. Otherwise the taper will be very difficult and you won't be able to decrease even a tiny bit without severe withdrawals. Thanks for your help and advice that you gave me last night (night for me at least). It's the most useful peace of information I've read on BB.

[[ga...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi, Cant. It's so good to see you.

 

Gardener I  searched for the "propaganda" post in the Long Hold Group, I printed it and I just finished reading it. Thank you so much, it clarified many things for me. It gave me a different view on tapering, withdrawal, tolerance,holding. I think I was going this fast because of the fear of tolerance after many people warn us against the risk of tolerance if you don't keep pushing. I've read this woman's propaganda post and she's totally convinced me. I feel much less worried now that I know that one can hold for a long time and it won't create tolerance nor will it be detrimental in any way but just the opposite. I'll hold for the rest of the summer and then reassess if I'm ready to resume my taper. She says that after one of these crises, you want to hold for a while to let the brain heal from this shock. Otherwise the taper will be very difficult and you won't be able to decrease even a tiny bit without severe withdrawals. Thanks for your help and advice that you gave me last night (night for me at least). It's the most useful peace of information I've read on BB.

 

Isn't that a great list of quotes? It was created by Valley (a man) who used to be the head guru on Long Hold. (He has tapered off and left Benzo Buddies.) When he made it, the voices saying to push through were louder than the voices saying to hold. We were just a small group of oddballs on Long Hold. So Valley decided to scour the forum and gathered up all the quotes he could find of buddies who were helped by holding. Because of the debate, we tongue-in-cheek called the quotes "Valley's Propaganda."

 

There are some people who are not helped by holding. They seem to be having a toxic reaction to the medication and just need to get off. But I think they are the minority. I think there are some people in tolerance, but they also seem to be a minority.

 

When I got into a terrible place, my doctor told me "the brain likes predictability, stop making cuts." When you change your meds, especially more than one, you are not giving your brain predictability. And it will let you know how unhappy it is.

 

I also see a pattern of people jumping from an unstable place with lots of symptoms and being surprised that the symptoms continue or get worse after the jump. A jump is another cut, so one would expect to get symptoms from it not relief from it. Eventually you get relief, but first you have to recover from your jump. I want to jump with symptoms I can live with for a long time. So I have put holds in here and there. Even this close to the end, I am putting in holds. I want to jump from a stable place.

 

Gardie

[[CM...]]

Gardie , great information. Thank you.

May I ask what your taper rate is per month? Or every two weeks

[[ga...]]

CM, I don't have a taper rate. I did a short hold, made a few tiny cuts, will do another short hold. You can see on my signature what I've been doing for a very long time.

 

VNM, I wanted to throw in something I saw in another post. Long holds are months, not weeks. If you hold for several months and see no improvements, the hold is not helping and you probably should just continue a slow taper. If you do see improvements, try holding longer until you feel stable (tolerable symptoms) and then restart your taper at a slower rate. If you get the rate right, you won't need holds. Thing about slow benzos is the cut can hit you so long after you make it. You have to be on guard for increasing symptoms before they clobber you. I ignored my increasing symptoms thinking I could tolerate them, but they were just a prelude to the real wave.

[[va...]]

CM, I don't have a taper rate. I did a short hold, made a few tiny cuts, will do another short hold. You can see on my signature what I've been doing for a very long time.

 

VNM, I wanted to throw in something I saw in another post. Long holds are months, not weeks. If you hold for several months and see no improvements, the hold is not helping and you probably should just continue a slow taper. If you do see improvements, try holding longer until you feel stable (tolerable symptoms) and then restart your taper at a slower rate. If you get the rate right, you won't need holds. Thing about slow benzos is the cut can hit you so long after you make it. You have to be on guard for increasing symptoms before they clobber you. I ignored my increasing symptoms thinking I could tolerate them, but they were just a prelude to the real wave.

 

That's exactly what happened to me!! I was sleeping 3 hours a night, severe anxiety (but not like when the wave hit), but I thought "keep pushing keep pushing" because of all the warnings against holding as this could create tolerance. So I kept decreasing. As you say, with long half life benzos the WD can hit boooommm in a way that it's cumulative, from previous cuts. They suddenly all jump on you. This wave has made me fear benzos so much. So on the one hand I want out but on the other hand I know fast is just not possible. Gardner you're so so low down in your dose. You're almost done!!! The only problem with an extremely slow taper for me is that I live in fear of not having meds. Not very likely but I'm a bit paranoid. I guess I'll have to fight that fear, or live with it. It's a shame this Valley man left the forum. So I thought all the answers to the questions were his own answers to people. Is it so? Or did he collect answers that different people gave to these questions?

 

Did you also hit that wall after an accumulation of cuts where you seemed to be doing not so bad and suddenly in one cut your brain decided "ok this time we're not doing it, I've had enough"?. Uggghhh, I didn't even see it coming. After reading the propaganda post I'll be really on the look out, observing the symptoms, to avoid crashing again.

[[ga...]]

CM, I don't have a taper rate. I did a short hold, made a few tiny cuts, will do another short hold. You can see on my signature what I've been doing for a very long time.

 

VNM, I wanted to throw in something I saw in another post. Long holds are months, not weeks. If you hold for several months and see no improvements, the hold is not helping and you probably should just continue a slow taper. If you do see improvements, try holding longer until you feel stable (tolerable symptoms) and then restart your taper at a slower rate. If you get the rate right, you won't need holds. Thing about slow benzos is the cut can hit you so long after you make it. You have to be on guard for increasing symptoms before they clobber you. I ignored my increasing symptoms thinking I could tolerate them, but they were just a prelude to the real wave.

 

That's exactly what happened to me!! I was sleeping 3 hours a night, severe anxiety (but not like when the wave hit), but I thought "keep pushing keep pushing" because of all the warnings against holding as this could create tolerance. So I kept decreasing. As you say, with long half life benzos the WD can hit boooommm in a way that it's cumulative, from previous cuts. They suddenly all jump on you. This wave has made me fear benzos so much. So on the one hand I want out but on the other hand I know fast is just not possible. Gardner you're so so low down in your dose. You're almost done!!! The only problem with an extremely slow taper for me is that I live in fear of not having meds. Not very likely but I'm a bit paranoid. I guess I'll have to fight that fear, or live with it. It's a shame this Valley man left the forum. So I thought all the answers to the questions were his own answers to people. Is it so? Or did he collect answers that different people gave to these questions?

 

Did you also hit that wall after an accumulation of cuts where you seemed to be doing not so bad and suddenly in one cut your brain decided "ok this time we're not doing it, I've had enough"?. Uggghhh, I didn't even see it coming. After reading the propaganda post I'll be really on the look out, observing the symptoms, to avoid crashing again.

 

Valley's propaganda are quotes he collected from many different people on different threads around the forum. He didn't use the quote function so we can't easily track them down. At any rate, the list is old. The people are probably tapered off and gone.

[[ch...]]

Ok, I'm confused. If it's bad to be on the same dose before tapering, why would it be ok during tapering to hold for extended periods of time? And cumulative sx from previous cuts?. That there would have me either jump or go  back to a "normal" dose and take me chances, which I won't do, of course. Just my two cents worth.

[[ga...]]

I'm not sure if chenka is asking a question or making a statement, but I'm personally kind of talked out on the subject. I already explained my reasons and that holding worked for me. I think I've said enough. I didn't meant to make this thread into another long hold support group.

 

Gardie

[[va...]]

Ok, I'm confused. If it's bad to be on the same dose before tapering, why would it be ok during tapering to hold for extended periods of time? And cumulative sx from previous cuts?. That there would have me either jump or go  back to a "normal" dose and take me chances, which I won't do, of course. Just my two cents worth.

 

Chenka go to the search tool and search "propaganda" and you'll find a long post by Valley inside the Long Hold thread called "propaganda". You need to read it all to understand it.

[[ch...]]

All my search came up with was an instant re run of current post

[[va...]]

All my search came up with was an instant re run of current post

 

First go to the long hold group, it's in support groups. Once you've clicked on it, go to the search tool and type "propaganda"

[[Ca...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi, Cant. It's so good to see you.

lol, -Guess im not blocked then..!!

You make sure you get the rest and quiet time you need at this point in time... Esp if not sleeping great on top of it all..

-lecture over.. lol

 

My best to you too..

 

[[Ca...]]

I love reading this thread..!! -I never have to say anything..!! Lol

You are all doing really great, given what we face...  -Or if not right now, will be in time...

 

Valium,

I multi tapered too at times, -well done, it can take some extra considerations...

I just wanted to say that from what I read here, I think your thoughts are pretty on track too...

 

Keep up the good work Everyone...

 

 

Hi Cantfly, thanks for the encouragement! I read your signature and I'm a bit confused. Are you still on benzos? I can't figure out if you finished tapering those but still on other meds?

Im nearly a year benzo free... Then I finished tapering the lyrica, and Im now suffering a horrid opiate cross over that I did in preperation for tapering that... -Incidently from a tolerant position...

Hope that helps..  There is a bit more detail at the start of my blog, -link in sig.. (if you get bored)

 

Cantfly, glad you got off the benzos. The psychiatrist wanted to put me on lyrica when I told her about the horrible withdrawals I was suffering from my last valium cut. I got out of her office and googled "lyrica withdrawal", and I threw away her prescription. She said if I took the lyrica I could quit the valium in no time, and then the lyrica would be easy to come off of. Do you agree with her or was she lying like they often do? Hope you can beat the opiates, I'm sure you will like you've done with the other two.

I think your Dr is just being a mainstream Dr.. That is the info they get, It probably does help the average person as they go through the “average” WD...

But once complications enter the picture like we commonly see here on BB, etc, the problems start to enter too... Im not going to say it wont help people, but so would dose correcting, or taper adjustment of the benzo in many instances too..

Perhaps the more desperately we need something to help, the more cautious we need to be, simply because of our medication fragility..??

Personally I would skip it unless there was a very specific need... I know a number of Drs that are not so impressed with it at all for anything beyond short term use, but this is not related to benzo discontinuation situations, more physical nerve trauma.. What goes on in detox Drs heads is beyond me at the best of times..!!

 

 

[[Ba...]]

Heya, Can't!

 

How you?

I was wondering how (bad) your lyrica taper was vs. valium?  Some seem to think that benzos are the worst... then some Lyrica takers think that is ever worse worst!

 

Any thoughts?