3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

[[ca...]]

Here is what I noticed when I tapered below .5. My sxs were the same all the way down to 0, with that being said I believe anyone that is still feeling sxs or having somewhat of a difficult time below .5 ,  you're probably going to feel the same all the way to 0.

With that being said it wouldn't hurt to hold some at say .5 or .25 . I'm only 20 days off and starting to get some persistent sxs like vibrations in my legs that last several hours, very very stiff muscles, neck and nerve pain. I believe the valium has at this point left my system and my nervous system is way more sensitive. I work everyday and I can get stressed and bring on the sxs real quick and may last the rest of the day. I rest a lot , try to pace myself and just think of nice things when I feel this coming on.

So yes some people are still very sensitive below the .25 taper mark.

[[Al...]]

I am at or near the 1.25  mark of V and I have to say m sxs when cutting at higher levels were more anxiety related. I did have some of the typical physical stuff but it was now I think mild.

 

Now at 1.26 V I really have no anxiety that is there. I can work myself up over stuff especially health worries but my main struggles at this level are pretty much physical sxs at a rather intensified depth and longer lasting than anything prior.

 

Interesting.🤮

 

Hope everyone heals regardless of their own experience. 👍

 

ATU🙏

[[ga...]]

 

 

You're holding at 0.28 of valium?? Really? When you try to get below that you get bad sxs?

I don't think it is trying to get below a certain number that's the problem. It's because I was tapering at a ridiculously fast pace. I am one of those people who will need to taper to near zero rather than jump from .25mg. From what I've read, those who taper to zero tend to have softer landings than those who jump from a higher dose, so I think it's a good option.

 

Wow that's terrific. You're almost out of this gardener?? At what point did you slow down your taper? I was going well to 1.25 then I entered in hell for the first time and I realized this is life threatening. I'll be snailing down from here.

 

I didn't slow down. I sped up. That went well so I sped up more. That was a mistake.

 

That said, some people are the opposite. They have to slow down at lower doses. The best thing is to just pay attention to your symptoms and make adjustments.

[[ga...]]

Here is what I noticed when I tapered below .5. My sxs were the same all the way down to 0, with that being said I believe anyone that is still feeling sxs or having somewhat of a difficult time below .5 ,  you're probably going to feel the same all the way to 0.

With that being said it wouldn't hurt to hold some at say .5 or .25 . I'm only 20 days off and starting to get some persistent sxs like vibrations in my legs that last several hours, very very stiff muscles, neck and nerve pain. I believe the valium has at this point left my system and my nervous system is way more sensitive. I work everyday and I can get stressed and bring on the sxs real quick and may last the rest of the day. I rest a lot , try to pace myself and just think of nice things when I feel this coming on.

So yes some people are still very sensitive below the .25 taper mark.

 

It's good to see you, caltn. I'm sorry about the vibrations and pain. I'm sure you are healing and these will pass. It's too bad you have to work a stressful job. I, too, notice that stress makes symptoms worse.

 

I think you're right that, for those doing daily cuts, a hold to stabilize is a good idea given the long half life of Valium.

[[ga...]]

I am at or near the 1.25  mark of V and I have to say m sxs when cutting at higher levels were more anxiety related. I did have some of the typical physical stuff but it was now I think mild.

 

Now at 1.26 V I really have no anxiety that is there. I can work myself up over stuff especially health worries but my main struggles at this level are pretty much physical sxs at a rather intensified depth and longer lasting than anything prior.

 

Interesting.🤮

 

Hope everyone heals regardless of their own experience. 👍

 

ATU🙏

 

I'm sorry about your symptoms, ATU. I hope you reach a point where they start to subside soon.

[[Al...]]

Gard,

 

Thanks, me too. 😫

 

You continue your path my friend.👍

 

ATU🙏

[[...]]

I hope everyone gets some healing energy from the universe today. My anxiety also got much better as I got lower and pain type stuff got worse. I’ve heard this is a common trend.

 

Valiumnomore - it’s not the exact dose that determines your sxs. It’s your taper speed and external stressors. In other words, there is no magic dose where it gets harder or easier- it’s all abt how you tapered, what else you take and what else is going on. Also, There is no particular dose that is “non-therapeutic” for everyone. Depends on your body. I am very sensitive to meds and 0.25V is still definitely a significant dose for me. You hold wherever you have to hold or slow wherever you have to slow. I’m also tapering all the way to zero- about a month left. The end of the taper is delicate and you really have to listen to your body and not overdo it. After a long tortuous taper, I do not want to screw it up at the end! I remind myself- the end is delicate!

 

Caltn- thx for the reminder to take it easy even once off. I find myself doing more but I remind myself not to overdo it. It’s hard though bc I feel a bit manic, trying to make up for lost time. Pls keep us posted on how you’re doing.

[[ga...]]

I hope everyone gets some healing energy from the universe today. My anxiety also got much better as I got lower and pain type stuff got worse. I’ve heard this is a common trend.

 

Valiumnomore - it’s not the exact dose that determines your sxs. It’s your taper speed and external stressors. In other words, there is no magic dose where it gets harder or easier- it’s all abt how you tapered, what else you take and what else is going on. Also, There is no particular dose that is “non-therapeutic” for everyone. Depends on your body. I am very sensitive to meds and 0.25V is still definitely a significant dose for me. You hold wherever you have to hold or slow wherever you have to slow. I’m also tapering all the way to zero- about a month left. The end of the taper is delicate and you really have to listen to your body and not overdo it. After a long tortuous taper, I do not want to screw it up at the end! I remind myself- the end is delicate!

 

Caltn- thx for the reminder to take it easy even once off. I find myself doing more but I remind myself not to overdo it. It’s hard though bc I feel a bit manic, trying to make up for lost time. Pls keep us posted on how you’re doing.

 

Good to see you, libr. I was just thinking about you and wondering how you were. I agree that .25V is significant to many people, me included! I think I have about a month left, too. Guess I should knock wood when I say that. My doctor wants me to hold for a whole month. Not sure about that right now, but I will proceed carefully no matter what path I take!

Gardie

[[ca...]]

Here is what I noticed when I tapered below .5. My sxs were the same all the way down to 0, with that being said I believe anyone that is still feeling sxs or having somewhat of a difficult time below .5 ,  you're probably going to feel the same all the way to 0.

With that being said it wouldn't hurt to hold some at say .5 or .25 . I'm only 20 days off and starting to get some persistent sxs like vibrations in my legs that last several hours, very very stiff muscles, neck and nerve pain. I believe the valium has at this point left my system and my nervous system is way more sensitive. I work everyday and I can get stressed and bring on the sxs real quick and may last the rest of the day. I rest a lot , try to pace myself and just think of nice things when I feel this coming on.

So yes some people are still very sensitive below the .25 taper mark.

 

It's good to see you, caltn. I'm sorry about the vibrations and pain. I'm sure you are healing and these will pass. It's too bad you have to work a stressful job. I, too, notice that stress makes symptoms worse.

 

I think you're right that, for those doing daily cuts, a hold to stabilize is a good idea given the long half life of Valium.

 

What's odd about my taper is I felt very good at times below .5, once I got to .25 I also felt a trend where I was feeling better and better.  I didn't feel the need to hold any at .25 so I tapered on down. Once off , I'm guessing the half life of Valium is finally leaving and nothing is there so again I'm having a wave of sxs. Nothing I can't handle cause I have been here before. 

 

[[ch...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

[[CM...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

 

I’m thinking of slowing my rate to 5%/2 weeks as well.

Do you go by the percentages after every 2 weeks?

How has your taper been? Has it been harder or easier once u got lower than 3mgs?

I think jumping at .5 would be ok. A lot of ppl do.

[[...]]

Chenka44 - only you can decide where to jump from. But I caution you to jump out of impatience or not wanting to measure doses for a few more wks. ESP of you’re feeling pretty good, what’s a few more wks, I mean why risk it? I would say consider jumping early if you have a good health reason to do so. Just my two cents- of course, only you know your taper so far and your body but personally, I see jumping early as an unnecessary risk and I’m so over the trial and error game of this. Good luck!

 

Caltn- so good to hear your confidence and acceptance. I’m sure your wave will be over soon!

[[CM...]]

Hey Libr. How has it been for you once you got below 3mg v equivalent?

[[...]]

Hey Libr. How has it been for you once you got below 3mg v equivalent?

It very gradually got better as I tapered down but I still felt pretty bad around 3mg V and still bad enough around 2mg V. At 1mg, it was better but I still had some pretty hellish weeks. At 0.5V sxs we’re ramping up so I slowed my rate. Keep in mind the word “better” is all relative. It’s been a complete torturous hell for me and “better” is just a less deep level of hell. Hope that makes sense. But now at 0.25V, it is definitely way better and maybe I’m not in hell anymore although I feel I won’t know for sure until I look back retrospectively. So healing IS happening for sure but I look forward to a day without any w/d sxs. I still have quite a few sxs- but less intense and they don’t last as long.

 

I think it’s really hard to compare how you’re doing vs someone else at the same dose. Just too many variables. But there seems to be one constant in this- everyone heals with enough time. No matter what you’re feeling, it’s “normal” in this and you’re not alone. And no matter what you’re feeling at whatever dose, you will heal too.

[[va...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

 

Please don't jump, taper down to zero. Look at me, I was doing perfectly fine decreasing 0.25 every 2 or 3 weeks and suddenly when going from 1 to 0.80 I was hit bit a hellish wave. I mean you don't imagine what wave it is. I live in so much fear. These last days seems to have improved a bit but really it's so damn scary. Be safe. You've done so well. Just keep decreasing till the end and be safe.

[[CM...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

 

Please don't jump, taper down to zero. Look at me, I was doing perfectly fine decreasing 0.25 every 2 or 3 weeks and suddenly when going from 1 to 0.80 I was hit bit a hellish wave. I mean you don't imagine what wave it is. I live in so much fear. These last days seems to have improved a bit but really it's so damn scary. Be safe. You've done so well. Just keep decreasing till the end and be safe.

 

Please stop scaring people with your stories. You have just tapered off another drug two months ago.

What you are feeling is from that, not from benzos.

[[va...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

 

Please don't jump, taper down to zero. Look at me, I was doing perfectly fine decreasing 0.25 every 2 or 3 weeks and suddenly when going from 1 to 0.80 I was hit bit a hellish wave. I mean you don't imagine what wave it is. I live in so much fear. These last days seems to have improved a bit but really it's so damn scary. Be safe. You've done so well. Just keep decreasing till the end and be safe.

 

Please stop scaring people with your stories. You have just tapered off another drug two months ago.

What you are feeling is from that, not from benzos.

 

Did you go through the same after a slow lexapro taper? If so, when did it get better?

[[ga...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

 

Please don't jump, taper down to zero. Look at me, I was doing perfectly fine decreasing 0.25 every 2 or 3 weeks and suddenly when going from 1 to 0.80 I was hit bit a hellish wave. I mean you don't imagine what wave it is. I live in so much fear. These last days seems to have improved a bit but really it's so damn scary. Be safe. You've done so well. Just keep decreasing till the end and be safe.

 

Please stop scaring people with your stories. You have just tapered off another drug two months ago.

What you are feeling is from that, not from benzos.

 

Did you go through the same after a slow lexapro taper? If so, when did it get better?

 

It's possible the lexapro taper is still affecting you, but no-one can say that for sure.

 

Was the lexapro taper fairly easy? Were you stable when you started your valium taper or not? If not, you are likely feeling the effects of both tapers at once. If I were feeling the effect of 2 tapers at once, I would hold until I felt better. You might want to check on the Long Hold Support Group for advice on holding.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=153201.34810

 

[[CM...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

 

Please don't jump, taper down to zero. Look at me, I was doing perfectly fine decreasing 0.25 every 2 or 3 weeks and suddenly when going from 1 to 0.80 I was hit bit a hellish wave. I mean you don't imagine what wave it is. I live in so much fear. These last days seems to have improved a bit but really it's so damn scary. Be safe. You've done so well. Just keep decreasing till the end and be safe.

 

Please stop scaring people with your stories. You have just tapered off another drug two months ago.

What you are feeling is from that, not from benzos.

 

Did you go through the same after a slow lexapro taper? If so, when did it get better?

 

Hi. Yes I did. I struggled for about 5 months. I tried tapering Valium before that point and it was impossible. It’s impossible for me to tell you what’s what since I don’t know you but there’s a very strong possibility, and more than likely, that you’re still healing from the lexapro withdrawal.

 

My advice would be to wait a couple months before tapering another pharmaceutical. Your brain needs to heal fully before it can handle another taper. These are very powerful drugs and the brain needs to heal. You will be ok. Just be gentle with yourself.

[[va...]]

Currently at 0.5688mg valium. Been cutting at 5% per 2 weeks for  a year or so at this pace, I think, with 2 years total tapering this month. My sx have had a distinct pattern of morning waves of anxiety and fatigue, followed by afternoon windows of pretty normal, for about six months. If I jumped at this level, anyone have an idea of the worst case scenario and best fix...so impatient to be off of the crap, especially as I can't tolerate any forms of liquid and scales and nail files are time consuming

 

Please don't jump, taper down to zero. Look at me, I was doing perfectly fine decreasing 0.25 every 2 or 3 weeks and suddenly when going from 1 to 0.80 I was hit bit a hellish wave. I mean you don't imagine what wave it is. I live in so much fear. These last days seems to have improved a bit but really it's so damn scary. Be safe. You've done so well. Just keep decreasing till the end and be safe.

 

Please stop scaring people with your stories. You have just tapered off another drug two months ago.

What you are feeling is from that, not from benzos.

 

Did you go through the same after a slow lexapro taper? If so, when did it get better?

 

It's possible the lexapro taper is still affecting you, but no-one can say that for sure.

 

Was the lexapro taper fairly easy? Were you stable when you started your valium taper or not? If not, you are likely feeling the effects of both tapers at once. If I were feeling the effect of 2 tapers at once, I would hold until I felt better. You might want to check on the Long Hold Support Group for advice on holding.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=153201.34810

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I thought was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm not sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at least an inch better in doing so.

[[ga...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you will see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

edit: typos

[[Ma...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you all see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

That was a fabulous post Gardie! 

[[ga...]]

Found it:

 

Primary suffering is the direct experience of painful w/d symptoms that cannot be avoided. Only time will heal our nervous systems.

 

Secondary suffering is what happens when we battle against our pain. It is perfectly natural for our brains to battle against pain and seek to escape it. Our brains are programmed to do that. But in this case, when there is nothing we can actually do but wait, the battle adds to our suffering. The more we focus on the pain, the more our brains alert and alarm, and the more our symptoms are ramped up.

 

The two tools that most people seem to find useful to alleviate secondary suffering are acceptance (stop battling it, just let it be there) and distraction (turning your brain to something else). I believe there's a sticky on distraction/coping at the top of the withdrawal support board. It's hard. It takes practice. Eventually it becomes easier.

 

 

Oh, I am going to add one thing. We can greatly reduce secondary suffering through mindful acceptance. Sometimes, as an added bonus, our brains reward us with reduced primary suffering as well. But that is not guaranteed and if we strive for it we are not practicing acceptance. Just know it could happen.

[[ga...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you all see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

That was a fabulous post Gardie!

 

(Your check is in the mail. )

[[va...]]

 

Thank you Gardener, My lexapro taper was extremely slow, lasted for 3 years. Bear in mind this was my second time on lexapro so it was harder than the first. The last 8 months of my lexapro taper I was also tapering valium, as ann blake tracy recommends to taper slowly both meds at a time, alternating the cuts. At that point my lexapro dose was very very low. OK then I continued tapering the valium at 0.20-0.25 mg cuts a month, which I though was ok but now I've learnt was too fast. Everything was fine, I mean fine.. I'm used to insomnia, physical ailments, discomfort, rage, you name it. But I didn't fear for dear life. But after I decreased to 1 mg, 14 days later I cut to 0.80 and two days later I went into this wave of extreme fear that really, I don't wish it upon anyone. I don't want to talk too much because someone has called on me saying I'm scaring people, but if this is a support group I don't know if I'm expected to come and say everything's great, because TBH it just isn't. So back on track, from two days at 0.80 I updosed to 1.40, and nothing changed. Or maybe I'm not in the utter shock of the first two days but I'm now sure if I've just gotten used to it. In any case I'm worried, working on acceptance and inner work as there's not much more to do is there? I read and read and see some people went through this and started updosing more and more and more, even up to 8 mgs, and didn't get better, so I'm not updosing any further for now. My biggest fear is as I'm so anxious (funny to call chemical anxiety being anxious, it just doesn't cover it), well my biggest fear is that finally a doctor convinces me to take more meds. Hope not but I'm not sure how much I trust myself in this state. Sorry for the rant I just need to express this. I feel at leas an inch better in doing so.

I'm sorry you're in such a rough spot. It sounds like you simply cut too fast. And I can tell you from experience that an undose is going to take a week or two to take full effect with slow benzos like Valium and Librium. Also, updosing is a bit of a guessing game. It could be you needed to updose more or you need a long hold.

 

I think if you go to the Long Hold Support Group you will find people who know exactly how you feel. I was on there, too, when I got into a terrible place. If you look at my signature, you will see that my long hold helped me tremendously.

 

Do you know about the ignore function? It's under profile->forum profile->modify profile->buddies/ignore list->edit ignore list. If someone is bothering me, and I need a break from them, I put them on my ignore list. Then their posts don't show up any more. I confess, I have people on that list just because I find their avatars annoying. I'm kind of sensitive to avatars. IMHO, I think that unless someone is breaking forum rules (in which case you click on "report this post"), it's best just to put them on ignore and move on rather than try to control them.

 

Perhaps those people who updose and updose and updose did not keep a journal and so didn't know their target. The rule of thumb is to go back to a dose you felt was tolerable. And then you have to wait for it to take effect. And then I would suggest wait more to make sure your brain has adjusted and settled down before you make it adjust to another cut.

 

Again, still not sleeping well, so maybe not the best paragraph form, but I think what I wrote makes sense. I tend to try to make everything perfect when I'm explaining things so I don't confuse people, but I can't really do that on little sleep. Add to that it is village fireworks tonight a few blocks from me (too loud) plus people have started with their personal fireworks already. My nerves are not very happy which makes my brain not very happy.

 

Yes, acceptance is the key. I will try to find my post about primary and secondary suffering which explains how acceptance helps. Or at least I hope it does because I'm not up to re-writing it!

Gardie

 

edit: typos

 

Gardie you're so sweet, thank  you thank you thank you. Your input is very useful. Information is power. I really didn't know where to updose. I look at my journal and saw that my normal everyday anxiety which I always had, was probably getting worse under 1.40, at 1.20 and 1... so I thought to updose to 1.40. Maybe I should've gone higher but I prefer not to yet, because I want to at least try to keep some structure.

 

It's SO difficult to stand this without updosing because the fear that I'm going crazy really unbearable. Plus I hardly sleep. And work, and I'm in charge of a 13 year old on my own. So I mean the fear is incredible. The fear is kind of chemical. It's like a wild horse, you can't stop it. Really I don't know what to do. Better do nothing and wait but it's so hard.

 

Have you ever had this chemical fear and anxiety? By many posts I've read, some people haven't. I was having none of that up to 9 days ago. I'll wait another week to see if it subsides and then IDK, perhaps updose? Gardie you write very very well in spite of your lack of sleep so please don't worry about that. I hope you keep getting better and your taper is very successful and you end up getting tons of sleep very soon.