Xanax to Valium crossover plan needed- finally got script

[[Ki...]]

Primrose isnt homeopathic is it?-  its natural, but its a supplement, isnt it? Homeopathic stuff has the "12x" "300x" symbols after it. Most people think its all bogus but I think some of it can work for some people. I always heard it could never hurt anything since there are no active ingredients in them- just " energy". Writing it down like that it does sound kind of like fairy dust!

[[Ki...]]

SG can you help me see where I am in dose? I am only going by weights and cant figure out how to see where I am dose wise. I didnt expect to feel this bad and Im wondering if I somehow got off track or if this is just going to be the start of a bad journey.

6AM .017 g  X (.25mg pill weight .131g)

10 AM .021g V (2 mg pill weight .171 g)

Noon .017g X (.25 mg / .131mg)

3Pm .021 V (2 mg/.171)

6 Pm .017X(.25/.131)

Bedtime .130 V (2/.171)

        And    .117X (.5 pill weight .130)

2 AM .017 g X (.25/131)

All I have done this past week is swap my percentage of night dose X for V. Unless I screwed up.

my original starting dose was .6125 x and the 2 ish mg ambien.

Thank you 

 

Phewww, okay.  When you rack and stack it all I get .578mg X+2.012mg V, which is equivalent to 13.6mg V.  So it all looks fine to me.  Just about right.

 

 

I did ok last night so I guess its time to do another mini swap? I can do the math on a straight nigh dose, but how do I divide up a day dose?

Do I need to add some more during the day?

If I decrease my X at night- new dose would be

.113 X at night

 

But new dose of V would be divided up between the doses. Should I divide it equally 3 ways and see how it goes towards helping balance things out or just keep it at night since my ultimate goal is to hopefully only dose at night?

Any opinions anyone?

As always- THANK YOU for walking me through all of this!

[[...]]

I did ok last night so I guess its time to do another mini swap? I can do the math on a straight nigh dose, but how do I divide up a day dose?

Do I need to add some more during the day?

If I decrease my X at night- new dose would be

.113 X at night

 

But new dose of V would be divided up between the doses. Should I divide it equally 3 ways and see how it goes towards helping balance things out or just keep it at night since my ultimate goal is to hopefully only dose at night?

Any opinions anyone?

As always- THANK YOU for walking me through all of this!

 

If V only needs to be dosed once a day then all swaps can be replaced with V at night (or whenever you want to take it).  This means your daytime X can be replaced with nighttime V.  If you need two doses then you should be building both doses together.  I would be inclined to keep the daytime X doses as they are and keep chipping at the nighttime X.

[[Ki...]]

I will give that a shot. I see my 2 nights of sleep terror etc coincided with my dose changes- I will keep track of that. Makes sense. Thank you!!!

New nighttime dose V- .1525

[[Ki...]]

I think the doc visit went ok. She asked if I needed a refill yet and I said not until next month and Im going slow, so hopefully she will continue to let me go slow. Maybe she read the Ashton stuff although thats pretty quick compared to most people on here!

Since I seem to be doing better every other day- on dose change nights my next day is rough, guess its the xanax decrease- if I have a big day is it ok to do a half step for 2 days then go back to a whole?

So using add .0225 g V as a constant and subtract .0035 g X as a constant-

Tues and Wed I was

V .1525

X.1135

And tomorrow I want to drive is it ok to go

V.1637

X.1117

Then Fri night

V.1750

X.110

If Im going to slow I can speed up but it would sure be nice to plan to go out....

Thanks for any help/ suggestions/advice-

Kitty the turtle

[[Ki...]]

I still clearly dont trust my math. My daytime doses are staying the same so I do trust those!

[[...]]

I think the doc visit went ok. She asked if I needed a refill yet and I said not until next month and Im going slow, so hopefully she will continue to let me go slow. Maybe she read the Ashton stuff although thats pretty quick compared to most people on here!

Since I seem to be doing better every other day- on dose change nights my next day is rough, guess its the xanax decrease- if I have a big day is it ok to do a half step for 2 days then go back to a whole?

So using add .0225 g V as a constant and subtract .0035 g X as a constant-

Tues and Wed I was

V .1525

X.1135

And tomorrow I want to drive is it ok to go

V.1637

X.1117

Then Fri night

V.1750

X.110

If Im going to slow I can speed up but it would sure be nice to plan to go out....

Thanks for any help/ suggestions/advice-

Kitty the turtle

 

Sure, you can do that.  How are you feeling?  Any better?

[[Ki...]]

Every other day is good. Its like that first change makes me off for a day then I get a decent day afterward. Today all I had was a headache and cog fog plus minor shakes- and serious muscle tension.  I drove myself to the doc then drove to the donut shop. I dont miss those muscle spasms, boy howdy! But the daytime sleepiness is much better. Hopefully by going slow I can keep that down... Hoping!

[[Ki...]]

Spoke too soon. Shit!!!!

In the past 6 hours everything changed. Im back to everything wearing off fast- even the valium is wearing off- do I load up the valium faster?Its wearing off too fast. do i need to move more towards daytime, more even doses. Everything is wearing off too quickly. Im not sure what to do other than start at 6 am dose and take more from night doses and even it all up. Im evengetting the spasms back. Im going to try and get some sleep but it seems like i have to start evening out my doses more even if it makes me sleepy- this is like pre- valium again

[[Ki...]]

Maybe its time to increase daytime valium. Probably time to increase valium overall quicker....

Xanax pretty much wears off after 1 1/2 hours now and I dont have enough valium in me yet to kick in on the wds I guess. Too slow?

Im not updosing just moving doses up to remove from night dose trying to get more V in my system. So instead of moving my valium doses up and removing them from the night dose, I should remove it from the xanax night dose. I hated adding another valium dose but hopefully soon ( like Moo says it takes a few weeks) it will be just once or twice a day. Stupid xanax.

[[...]]

Maybe its time to increase daytime valium. Probably time to increase valium overall quicker....

Xanax pretty much wears off after 1 1/2 hours now and I dont have enough valium in me yet to kick in on the wds I guess. Too slow?

Im not updosing just moving doses up to remove from night dose trying to get more V in my system. So instead of moving my valium doses up and removing them from the night dose, I should remove it from the xanax night dose. I hated adding another valium dose but hopefully soon ( like Moo says it takes a few weeks) it will be just once or twice a day. Stupid xanax.

 

I'm not following what the problem is or your plan to solve it.  When do symptoms occur?

[[Mo...]]

Spoke too soon. Shit!!!!

In the past 6 hours everything changed. Im back to everything wearing off fast- even the valium is wearing off- do I load up the valium faster?Its wearing off too fast. do i need to move more towards daytime, more even doses. Everything is wearing off too quickly. Im not sure what to do other than start at 6 am dose and take more from night doses and even it all up. Im evengetting the spasms back. Im going to try and get some sleep but it seems like i have to start evening out my doses more even if it makes me sleepy- this is like pre- valium again

 

Kitty, i dont get it either.

When you say " up" do you mean you want to increase? Or do you mean time-wise?

I do not understand the up and downing and time shifts.

Could you try to explain what youre doing now and what the problem is, again?

When you mention a lot of times and doses, and upping or increasing, and different times with that, it is a bit all over the place for me to follow it.

Are you following any plan still? And if so, where are you at?

 

 

 

[[Ki...]]

Oh sorry...

Same symptoms as when it started, but shakes not as bad. Shivering, palpitations, anxious , twitchy, and it started last night around 7. The xanax used to help - I was ok taking that little dose 3x day and big dose at night. Then started adding in V slowly trying to be able to still work since the first few days I couldnt work. I was getting better until last night- for about 1 1/2- 2 hrs after xanax Im better then it wears off. I know Moo said it takes a few weeks to get enough valium in to cover those idwds and Im on a LOW dose of valium ( doc said breathing / bp is ok that was why I went up slow)

Last night I took X an hour early. I took an extra dose of V, but will take it off the total so Im not updosing just rearranging. Im thinking this is just part of crossover and it just takes time - so is the best thing to take the extra v dose off of my big xanax dose and try to get comfortable or is it better to stay consistent and just deal with the mess?

I hope that makes sense. No sleep- fuzz brain- short bus

 

MODIFY- all doses are early. No extra xanax total- just more frequent and taking off of pm dose- and adding one extra valium dose, will reduce evening xanax dose equivalent. No updose just time shift.

[[Ki...]]

Im sorry im such a pain in the ass. I need to find a way to swap from old way, which is crazy and not working anymore- Here it is-

Tues Wed Thurs

2 AM .0017 g X

6 AM .0017 g X

10 AM .021 g V

Noon .0017 g X

3 PM .021 g V

6 PM .0017 g X

Bedtime .1637 g V

.111 g X

And change over to a more ashton style one like what you (moo) made- more valium in the day.

last night I had to take everything an hour or two early, and took an extra dose of valium at 4 am, so I will remove that equivalent from my tonight xanax dose.

This old way is not working now that the xanax has petered out so I guess I need to start merging doses to do it more like your (Moos)plan in this thread, from Ashton, and just be tired for a while until I get used to it. I guess I just need to just do it- its just scary. Sorry for being such a PITA.

 

I got tonight being .175 V and .107 x since Im scared to do the math to change up today after all this

[[...]]

So it sounds like you get interdose symptoms before the big night dose, but then it last only a few hours?  But you are not as bad during the day?  I don't understand what is going on.  The typical way to approach this is to spread them out evenly through the day...both X and V.  But I'm not sure that is right for you as you seem to function well on the big night doses.

[[Ki...]]

I think I am ready to add more during the day now- before the valium made me non functional in the day. Im not as tired with it as I was. I added a small dose today and it helped.  maybe last night was just a bad night but i had the bad symptoms after 2 am. Now Im pretty much nervous and shaky all the time. Might be just the way its going to be but I hope more valium helps it. I really dont think the big dose at night is helping as much- since Im not sleeping much anyway. I hope to get to Moos simple schedule soon. Maybe for now I just need to add more V all the way around and a little faster. I guess I will find out tonight since I have to take away from X and not add to V because of my extra day dose. Im sorry Im such a scatterbrain

[[Ki...]]

So it sounds like you get interdose symptoms before the big night dose, but then it last only a few hours?  But you are not as bad during the day?  I don't understand what is going on.  The typical way to approach this is to spread them out evenly through the day...both X and V.  But I'm not sure that is right for you as you seem to function well on the big night doses.

 

Im going to add in some valium to each of the existing day doses tomorrow and see how that goes. Maybe just adding in day and night alternately will help until I get " caught up". Then I can transition into the other plan. Who knows, maybe I will need to keep some doses in the daytime. It seems to change all the time. Thanks SG- I really appreciate the help. I probably do just need it more in the day than I did before.

[[Mo...]]

Im sorry im such a pain in the ass. I need to find a way to swap from old way, which is crazy and not working anymore- Here it is-

Tues Wed Thurs

2 AM .0017 g X

6 AM .0017 g X

10 AM .021 g V

Noon .0017 g X

3 PM .021 g V

6 PM .0017 g X

Bedtime .1637 g V

.111 g X

And change over to a more ashton style one like what you (moo) made- more valium in the day.

last night I had to take everything an hour or two early, and took an extra dose of valium at 4 am, so I will remove that equivalent from my tonight xanax dose.

This old way is not working now that the xanax has petered out so I guess I need to start merging doses to do it more like your (Moos)plan in this thread, from Ashton, and just be tired for a while until I get used to it. I guess I just need to just do it- its just scary. Sorry for being such a PITA.

 

I got tonight being .175 V and .107 x since Im scared to do the math to change up today after all this

 

Would it be an idea to combine your doses into three times a day?

Your 6 and 10 am dose into one when yiu wake up.

Your noon and 3 pm dose at 2 or so

And then the last two doses at 9 pm or so?

 

I combined mine too during cross over. I cant exactly recal how. But i did.

 

This way you would get three bigger boosts of the v?

 

Slowly adding for six doses sounds little, valium wise.

 

This was just a thought i just ahd when i looked at the times of dosing.

What do you think about this SG?

Kitty?

[[Ki...]]

I would like to make it a little more simple, like the plan you had laid out earlier Moo, if possible so yes that sounds good. Except my night dose- I can split that myself though. It takes a bit for V to kick in so I usually take it an hour before bed and X at bedtime.

I think I made a mistake yesterday in my math.

When I took an extra day dose of V, which is .021g, I removed- instead of the eqiuvalent of a DAY dose of X, which is .017g - .325 mg I think? I only removed my " constant" of X from my night X dose instead, which is only .0035.

So my yesterday dose WAS an updose, because of bad math. So today since I slept good last night, I can even it out on my noon X dose since X isnt helping much anyway. This sucks. Its not a huge updose but its still an updose.

[[Ki...]]

Yesterday

.017 x 2 am

.021v 4 am

.017x 6 am

.021v 10 am

.017x noon

.021v 3 pm

.017x 6 pm

Bedtime-

.175 v

.107x

So no wonder I slept better? I took an extra whole dose of valium (.021g) and only subtracted .0035 x

( the hours are off but the totals are correct)

 

[[Ki...]]

I keep having to modify my posts because I always forget to put the zeros in. It makes a massive difference. Im sorry

[[...]]

Yesterday

.017 x 2 am

.021v 4 am

.017x 6 am

.021v 10 am

.017x noon

.021v 3 pm

.017x 6 pm

Bedtime-

.175 v

.107x

So no wonder I slept better? I took an extra whole dose of valium (.021g) and only subtracted .0035 x

( the hours are off but the totals are correct)

 

So you took extra and got an immediate good result.  Maybe an updose would be a good thing to try.

[[Ki...]]

But isnt that bad? I already did that a few weeks ago, one tiny rescue dose.

Im supposed to go down not up?

And how much of an updose was that?

I thought updoses were BAD.

I wonder if my freakout was another metabolism change since thats what made me hit tolerance and my only other one was when I added the V the first time. Menopause sucks.

I can take some extra X off today and add more valium in and even it up since it was only 11 hours ago.

Im still a jelly legged fumble fingered spastic mess but I took my unisom and inositol and finally slept.

Which is nice. May have just been from updose.

Yall have a good Saturday and thanks again. I look forward to getting off this xanax.

[[...]]

But isnt that bad? I already did that a few weeks ago, one tiny rescue dose.

Im supposed to go down not up?

And how much of an updose was that?

I thought updoses were BAD.

I can take some X off today and add more valium in and even it up since it was only 11 hours ago

Im still a jelly legged fumble fingered spastic mess but I took my unisom and inositol and finally slept.

Which is nice. May have just been from updose.

 

Updosing is not necessarily bad at all.  It gets you farther from zero and may not help, but...it might have been what made you feel better.  That's a very good thing.  I'm just saying it might be worth it to try it.  This is not an addiction withdrawal where the only choice is to keep moving lower.  It's a CNS injury.  You are trying to manage damaged receptors.  You are trying to remove a poison while keeping your brain and CNS functioning normally.

[[Mo...]]

Would it be making more sense to swap more valium for xanax first, before considering updosing?

I think i myself might have tried that first.

To see if that helps before taking more?

 

Just a thought...

 

People have used updosing in their tapers. And nobody likes to do it. If it means you go up a bit to stabilize and then the road down isnt as horrid, it may be worth it.

Whatever we need to do do taper off...there isnt any shame in it.

But what goes up must come down and i would not so it just like that.

 

Thoughts?