Xanax to Valium crossover plan needed- finally got script

[[me...]]

Kbeanbag,

I've been following this closely, as I was thinking of switching to valium at a very low dose. I've been on flurazepam (as needed, not continuously), for quite a while. I never had any issues with it, it is super-long acting, but very "old school". My doctor would rather give me Ambien ( ) than flurazepam, even though I think flurazepam is much better and "safer" to avoid dependence. If valium is not helping with sleep (which is really my ONLY issue), then there isn't any point in me trying to use it. ATM I'm using Ambien (as needed) and really hating it.

 

You might look into flurazepam, if your doctor would consider it. Like I said, I never had any issues with it and felt the sleep quality was really good, has a built in "taper". 

[[Ki...]]

Thats interesting meowie. I think that was one of the things i tried way back when, like 15 years ago but I cant be sure. I never kept a list! I loved the ambien/ xanax combination because I thought I wasnt having any side effects. Now looking back I had so many- I was probably having IDWDs in long waves and never knew it then suddenly everything was right again. These drugs are ALL weird arent they?

Today its headaches and cogfog and what I call muscle spasms but I think its more like my muscles are just doing their own thing. it changes day to day. I cant say how much of it is the crossover to valium- I havent found a lot of info on what other people went through. Some seemed to fly right on through, but a lot sound like horror stories.

I will find out Thurs if this breathing thing is just my imagination! I would really like to at least get halfway through to get the IDWDs under control- Moo made me up a schedule based on the Ashton manual numbers and that seems to be the good point. Maybe if thats all I can do I can taper from there. I guess everyone has to find what works for them. Thanks for the heads up on Dalmane, and good luck with however you decide to go. There are a lot of different ways, it seems.

[[Mo...]]

Thats interesting meowie. I think that was one of the things i tried way back when, like 15 years ago but I cant be sure. I never kept a list! I loved the ambien/ xanax combination because I thought I wasnt having any side effects. Now looking back I had so many- I was probably having IDWDs in long waves and never knew it then suddenly everything was right again. These drugs are ALL weird arent they?

Today its headaches and cogfog and what I call muscle spasms but I think its more like my muscles are just doing their own thing. it changes day to day. I cant say how much of it is the crossover to valium- I havent found a lot of info on what other people went through. Some seemed to fly right on through, but a lot sound like horror stories.

I will find out Thurs if this breathing thing is just my imagination! I would really like to at least get halfway through to get the IDWDs under control- Moo made me up a schedule based on the Ashton manual numbers and that seems to be the good point. Maybe if thats all I can do I can taper from there. I guess everyone has to find what works for them. Thanks for the heads up on Dalmane, and good luck with however you decide to go. There are a lot of different ways, it seems.

 

Sorry the cross over is such a rough journey for you, KB..

I did experience much relief doign this cross over but i was far for symptom free.

 

Good thing you are getting the breathing checked out. Even if its nothing, at least you will be assured for yourself that its fine.

 

Is the muscle thing kind of like....when you have a twitching muscle but then tenfold?

I had that, the muscles in my lower belly wojld twitch out of nowhere and sometimes for longer periods of time as well. It looked like i had some sort of animal in there, running around. It didnt hurt but it drove me nuts.

I also had it in my thighs.

 

[[Ki...]]

Its twitchy sometimes but other times its just like my feet decide they are just going to point inward for a little while, or I drop stuff, nothing horrible- just weirdness. Its certainly tolerable compared to what a lot of other folks are having to deal with. If my breathing/ bp was higher this would probably be a welcome thing! I dont know why mine is so slow- has been for years. But I will get her to check it. I wasnt expecting it to be a symptom free crossover although wouldnt that be nice!!!- but yeah I do need to get that one thing checked out and watched.

Moo thats really odd it was in your belly and thighs! Well actually since gaba is heavy in the belly maybe its not so weird. But I can see how that would be maddening!

[[Ki...]]

I must say I really liked ambien in the early days. If I had palpitations which I now realize was prob IDWD, I would nibble the edge off an ambien and it really took the edge off of me. If I tried to do that with a xanax I felt AWFUL. Drugs really do hit different people in very different ways.

[[Ki...]]

Made the mistake of going out to Lowes and the grocery store today. Really bad move.

Back to square two. An hour late taking my tiny dose pill... Damn. When you say the schedule matters you mean it REALLY matters. 

[[Mo...]]

Made the mistake of going out to Lowes and the grocery store today. Really bad move.

Back to square two. An hour late taking my tiny dose pill... Damn. When you say the schedule matters you mean it REALLY matters. 

 

Well, imo, the plan matters, because of the stage you are at : crossing over.

But eventually , with valium, it really doesnt matter a whole lot to be an hour late. Or a few hours.

The long acting properties should allow that.

Even a cut will not be felt the same day, or the next, for that matter, by most people.

 

I have forgotten a dose during my taper some times. Just took it when i remembered. Its really not a bit deal as it was on ativan .

 

 

It think right now you might indeed want to keep it on time.

Sorry it didnt work out today

[[Ki...]]

Im bumping it up tonight , hopefully getting back on track. Who would have thought going to a paint store would lead to a " cry or vomit" decision....

Thanks Moo, this one was a stupid bit of neglect on my part.

[[Mo...]]

Im bumping it up tonight , hopefully getting back on track. Who would have thought going to a paint store would lead to a " cry or vomit" decision....

Thanks Moo, this one was a stupid bit of neglect on my part.

 

Ah.. The cry or vomit decison. I know that kind of decision.

 

I am sure it will settle again, Kittybean. We all have to go through these kinds of things to start recognizing our limits for now. It sure sucks but you are doing the best you can.

 

[[Ki...]]

Thank you Moo. With all you are going through yourself its so sweet of you to be there to support others. I am keeping you and your family in my prayers.

I do hope this gets better. Last night I had about an hour of sleep and then after going in the other bedroom had either a dream or an auditory hallucination of my rain noisemaker headphones screaming at me and I had sleep paralysis and couldnt get them off.

I guess I misunderstood crossing over- I think I thought it was just substituting one thing for another and then the tapering was where you got the uglies. I had no idea the crossover would be so bad.

Im just going to sit here today- after yesterday Im afraid to go out. I do hope it gets better soon at least in some way. Thank you again for holding my hand.

[[Ki...]]

Since v is so long acting is it just for convenience to do once a day dosing or does taking it at night help with sleep? I was splitting the dose now to help with idwds....

Ok I will stick with a very slow crossover to hopefully help minimize any breathing, extreme drowsiness stuff... thanks so much!!

 

There are people who need to dose V four times a day if you can believe it.  It is long-acting in general, but that can vary from person to person.  Two doses a day is common...every 12 hours.  Some people dose more at night, but I think it is more important to keep doses even.

 

This actually is not a slow crossover.  It will end up taking about the same time as larger steps, but will be more comfortable.

SG can you help me see where I am in dose? I am only going by weights and cant figure out how to see where I am dose wise. I didnt expect to feel this bad and Im wondering if I somehow got off track or if this is just going to be the start of a bad journey.

6AM .017 g  X (.25mg pill weight .131g)

10 AM .021g V (2 mg pill weight .171 g)

Noon .017g X (.25 mg / .131mg)

3Pm .021 V (2 mg/.171)

6 Pm .017X(.25/.131)

Bedtime .130 V (2/.171)

        And    .117X (.5 pill weight .130)

2 AM .017 g X (.25/131)

All I have done this past week is swap my percentage of night dose X for V. Unless I screwed up.

my original starting dose was .6125 x and the 2 ish mg ambien.

Thank you 

[[...]]

SG can you help me see where I am in dose? I am only going by weights and cant figure out how to see where I am dose wise. I didnt expect to feel this bad and Im wondering if I somehow got off track or if this is just going to be the start of a bad journey.

6AM .017 g  X (.25mg pill weight .131g)

10 AM .021g V (2 mg pill weight .171 g)

Noon .017g X (.25 mg / .131mg)

3Pm .021 V (2 mg/.171)

6 Pm .017X(.25/.131)

Bedtime .130 V (2/.171)

        And    .117X (.5 pill weight .130)

2 AM .017 g X (.25/131)

All I have done this past week is swap my percentage of night dose X for V. Unless I screwed up.

my original starting dose was .6125 x and the 2 ish mg ambien.

Thank you 

 

Phewww, okay.  When you rack and stack it all I get .578mg X+2.012mg V, which is equivalent to 13.6mg V.  So it all looks fine to me.  Just about right.

[[Ki...]]

SG can you help me see where I am in dose? I am only going by weights and cant figure out how to see where I am dose wise. I didnt expect to feel this bad and Im wondering if I somehow got off track or if this is just going to be the start of a bad journey.

6AM .017 g  X (.25mg pill weight .131g)

10 AM .021g V (2 mg pill weight .171 g)

Noon .017g X (.25 mg / .131mg)

3Pm .021 V (2 mg/.171)

6 Pm .017X(.25/.131)

Bedtime .130 V (2/.171)

        And    .117X (.5 pill weight .130)

2 AM .017 g X (.25/131)

All I have done this past week is swap my percentage of night dose X for V. Unless I screwed up.

my original starting dose was .6125 x and the 2 ish mg ambien.

Thank you 

 

Phewww, okay.  When you rack and stack it all I get .578mg X+2.012mg V, which is equivalent to 13.6mg V.  So it all looks fine to me.  Just about right.

 

If Im doing it right, that means its just a very rough ride. At least I know now. Thank you for checking for me.

Kitty

[[Mo...]]

SG can you help me see where I am in dose? I am only going by weights and cant figure out how to see where I am dose wise. I didnt expect to feel this bad and Im wondering if I somehow got off track or if this is just going to be the start of a bad journey.

6AM .017 g  X (.25mg pill weight .131g)

10 AM .021g V (2 mg pill weight .171 g)

Noon .017g X (.25 mg / .131mg)

3Pm .021 V (2 mg/.171)

6 Pm .017X(.25/.131)

Bedtime .130 V (2/.171)

        And    .117X (.5 pill weight .130)

2 AM .017 g X (.25/131)

All I have done this past week is swap my percentage of night dose X for V. Unless I screwed up.

my original starting dose was .6125 x and the 2 ish mg ambien.

Thank you 

 

Phewww, okay.  When you rack and stack it all I get .578mg X+2.012mg V, which is equivalent to 13.6mg V.  So it all looks fine to me.  Just about right.

 

If Im doing it right, that means its just a very rough ride. At least I know now. Thank you for checking for me.

Kitty

 

Sorry its so tough, Kittybean. It sure can be a rough ride for some to cross over.

Hoping you settle soon.

 

[[Ki...]]

Thanks Moo. I didnt see much written about crossing over and just thought the tapering was the bad part. No job and no insurance will make it worse but theres no way to work like this. Thanks for all the help ❤️

[[Mo...]]

Thanks Moo. I didnt see much written about crossing over and just thought the tapering was the bad part. No job and no insurance will make it worse but theres no way to work like this. Thanks for all the help ❤️

 

Crossing over can be tough. You are decreasing a drug yiu have used for a while , while getting used to another one.

Tapering does not need to be the worst. It is different for everyone.

Some people do it with relative ease and others not so much.

 

On these boards you will find people who in general do have a harder time, as its why there are here.

But with a sensible plan and payign attention to your body and symptoms you are dojng everything you can to make it work

[[Ki...]]

I went up 2 mg in 10 days. If I can keep increasing 1-2 mg each 10 days then thats not a terrible crossover rate. Im going to keep trying. I keep looking at the plan you wrote out wishing I could get there. One day at a time- I did have a good day last week and slept one night 💥

[[...]]

I went up 2 mg in 10 days. If I can keep increasing 1-2 mg each 10 days then thats not a terrible crossover rate. Im going to keep trying. I keep looking at the plan you wrote out wishing I could get there. One day at a time- I did have a good day last week and slept one night 💥

 

That's right, it is not a terrible crossing rate.  If you look at Ashton's charts she generally has people moving about 17% every 1-2 weeks.  You've crossed 15% in 10 days so you are in that range.  Waiting for V to build is a slow process.

[[Ki...]]

I will point this out to my poor husband who is doing his best to deal with me right now. Thank you- that does help.

[[Ki...]]

I hope this doesnt mess anything up, but I did buy a Gaba supplement on the recommendation of someone my husband trusts a lot. I had been using something called Dopa boost when my spasms were so horrid before the valium and it did help. When I told him about all this ( slow valium up etc) he said taking gaba cant hurt because it cant get to your brain but it will help you appreciate your limbs more. It did seem to make me calmer, and since it cant cross the blood brain barrier Im hoping its ok to take until the V kicks in. I posted on the supplement board too. Looks like a lot of folks use it.

[[...]]

I hope this doesnt mess anything up, but I did buy a Gaba supplement on the recommendation of someone my husband trusts a lot. I had been using something called Dopa boost when my spasms were so horrid before the valium and it did help. When I told him about all this ( slow valium up etc) he said taking gaba cant hurt because it cant get to your brain but it will help you appreciate your limbs more. It did seem to make me calmer, and since it cant cross the blood brain barrier Im hoping its ok to take until the V kicks in. I posted on the supplement board too. Looks like a lot of folks use it.

 

You need to be careful with supplements.  A good rule is to try one at a time and see if it causes problem.  There are different ways substances can affect you - metabolism (foods and other drugs), action at the receptor (alcohol, quinolone ABs), stimulation elsewhere in the brain (sugar, caffeine).  If it doesn't cross the BBB that is good, but there are also GABA receptors all over your body.

[[Ki...]]

I will. I gave up coffee and bourbon without even wondering if I needed to. I might add on to my valium day dose tomorrow and subtract from my night xanax dose since the V isn't making me sleepy at this low dose anymore. Thanks SG!!

[[Mo...]]

I guess the thing with adding anything right now is that you will not know.

You will not know when you start feeling better if this is because of the supplement or because of the cross over going well.

And the other way around, too: if you start to feel worse, it may be the supplement or ...not.

 

I think once you are settled it is easier to " experiment" with supplements as you will sorta kinda know what your body does after a cut etc.

 

I do think that its great if anyone finds something that works for them.

A ton of people have great benefit from vitamin D or magnesium for example. I didnt. Contrary.

So, you never know.

[[Ki...]]

That is true. I actually used to take a lot of supplements and now only take a few. I used the dopamine boost the last few weeks, so I'm familiar with it now. The gaba was the only new thing. Everything else is homeopathic, which can never hurt anything. It may not work but it won't hurt and I can always give it to my old dog.

Should I go up on my valium in the,day next time? Split the new increase between the 2 daytime doses?

[[Mo...]]

That is true. I actually used to take a lot of supplements and now only take a few. I used the dopamine boost the last few weeks, so I'm familiar with it now. The gaba was the only new thing. Everything else is homeopathic, which can never hurt anything. It may not work but it won't hurt and I can always give it to my old dog.

Should I go up on my valium in the,day next time? Split the new increase between the 2 daytime doses?

 

I do not agree that homeopathic stuff can never hurt a thing.

It can.

For example, my naturopath had looked into evening primrose for me. Turns out that it actually affects the absorption of valium. Because it does something for the liver.

I can not recall the exact words or thing. Benzo fog.